Does anyone have a high school student NOT in honors or AP courses?

[TimeforMe]

Thanks. One thing that really stood out and struck home for me was that the admissions officer from Vassar said that "yes, choosing a college is important but is not a matter of life and death" and if you don't get into the college of your choice you can always go someplace initially and transfer. Kind of put things in perspective.

Having said that, I cannot believe the lengths that some parents go to with this college application thing. Don't they have a life?

 

[Nancy]

Yep, my oldest. She is a Junior this year and has always been average. She could do better if she put effort into it, but she hates school and has since kindergarten. I don't care if she gets perfect grades, I just want her to pass and have the grades be decent enough so she can go to college.

Right now she has no idea if she even wants to go to college so I basically told her to go the community college route for 2 years, take the basics until she decides what she wants to do (right now she is leaning towards fashion design) I figure at a 2 year college she at least gets the basics that she would have to take anywhere, then she can transfer to another school and carry her credit hours over.

edited to add...I forgot she does take an AP french class...she is a whiz with languages.

 

[Aimeedyan]

Could that be more diametrically opposed to my own philosophy? I am sitting here on the trading floor laughing. Was I pushed? YES. Would I have accomplished a fraction of what I did without the shove? NO WAY. Do I think we should only do things that we're "comfortable doing?" NO (how many of us would be at work right now if it came down to "comfort?") Would I put my kid in a course that was too much for him? MOOT POINT, because if you are in there, I expect you to do what it takes to get it done, just the same way as I'm expected to do things I've never tried before at work every day. Am I going to push my kid? ABSOLUTELY. Hopefully I'll be suave enough that he won't figure me out for a while.

Then again, you all basically know me, and you know that I'm going to marry some conehead like myself, and our kid will have total genetic cancellation and get Ds, walk into walls, smoke with the Phish groupies and ride the special kid bus to school.

What works for one child doesn't work for another. I was not pushed, I LOVE my job and got there on my own, I didn't need to be pushed, I knew what I needed to do and did it. I WOULD be at work if given a choice, because I love it. My parents just wanted us to be happy, productive citizens, which we all are. They wanted us to do the best we could do. If they had attempted to push me, I would have suffered and possibly never even attended college. Many of my peers did this very thing, it happens all the time.

You can't decide now what you're going to do for your future children, because their personality may not allow for that kind of attitude towards things... Each and every child is unique and should be treated that way. Some kids need pushed, some don't. Some are well aware of their passions and talents, and some need some help. Others need a swift kick in the butt each afternoon =) Just depends!

 

[Crankyshank]

Another thing is that you want to make sure the school is a great fit for the student. While she may get into a top notch school, you might find a smaller and less exclusive school is a better match for her. So I wouldn't be too stressed out about it.

My parents went through this 2 years ago with my sister. She applied to 4 pharmacology programs - Northeastern, URI, UCONN, and Rutgers. They are all top notch pharm programs. They all gave her incredible financial aid. The logical choice would be URI - it's the closest to home. Lots of new equipment donated by CVS and she'd get in-state tuition because MA doesn't have a state school closer that offers the same program. However, the university environment at that campus wasn't the fit for her that UCONN was. So that's where she went.

 

[wdwgirl03]

I only took 2 AP classes in high school and I had no problem getting into good colleges. Definitely not Ivy League schools, but good schools nonetheless.

 

[DisDuck]

here goes:
unless one has a career path in mind for science/medicine, law, business one undergraduate school is just like another. If career is say 'teacher' then does anyone really think that the 'name' of your college will hold more weight when applying for a job. I believe this push on AP/Honors is going to raise a generation of stressed out people. Not every career path requires these courses. None of my children took or were in AP/Honors. One is a High School teacher in TV Production - graduated from Emerson College and just got into that school under a special program for those with ADD. The second graduated high school with an interest in nutrition, no AP/Honors courses and average GPA - got into UCONN School of Nutrition made dean's list 5 times and just finished her dietitic internship (required for RD exam), acceptance into internship program based on grades and recommendations not 'named' undergraduate school. Last but not least current student is a Vocal Performance Major at University of Tampa, only a so-so student w/o AP/Honors, chose this school because only 57 schools on East Coast offer a major in Musical Theater.

As you can see from my long rant this is a pet peeve of mine. Perform well in high school, yes but don't stress out over college. Use the search engine on collegeboards.com with its filters to get a list of colleges that have your major then check their admission requirements. If you are undeclared as to major then 'name' should be least on your list.

crankyshanks- kind of wierd that there are several similarities between us.

 

[robsmom]

Kind of bored today and found this interesting so I went to the princeton link for selecting colleges. I put myself in as I was when I graduated from high school. Believe it or not tied for my best match were the two colleges I made my final decision from almost 20 years ago! One was the one I went to Lafayette and the other was Gettysburg my second choice. Guess the catalog, book, visit method my mom and I did was pretty good afterall!!

 

[danacara]

Funny. I'm with whomever it was earlier in this thread who said that AP Courses can save Mom and Dad big bucks. A fantastic example of this is Alex Smith, quarterback for the University of Utah's undefeated football team this year - he went to Helix High in California, a pretty good school. He's smart and driven. He got 62 (yes - 62) credits for AP upon enrollment at Utah. He STARTED as a second-semester sophomore, earned a BS in economics in two years, and took MBA classes this year - even though it's only his third year at college. Even though he had tuition covered by football if he hadn't been a jock, he would've saved his family tens of thousands of dollars through AP.

I think that if your kids aren't achievers, don't kill them with honors/AP, I guess, certainly they aren't absolute prerequisites to success in life. But there's money to be saved here, if your kid is capable of it.

 

[WWTBAMFAN]

There was a meeting for all of the parents of juniors at my DD's school to discuss the college admissions process. At the meeting, the deans for admissions for Rice University, SMU, Penn and the University of Michigan all gave presentations. I thought of this thread and felt that some of the comments from these deans would be applicable.

One of the interesting points made by all of the deans was that colleges look at the strength of schedule taken by a student. If AP courses are available to a student, then all things being equal these college deans would prefer students who challenged themselves. These colleges do not want to see a senior talke all fluff courses his or her last year because that does not bode well for that student's first year in college.

The Penn dean joked that Penn and most of the Ivy league schools mentioned that they want to see seniors take a number of AP courses (she joked that six AP courses was a good number for a senior but that was joke).

Again, these wre comments from deans of admissions at these schools. Other schools will have different standards.

 

[Blueeyes101817]

i took the regular classes or college prep english (which wasnt honors, just that you were planning on going to college) never took AP or honors,,i applied to 5 schools, got into them all..
guidance office always told me to take hte harder classes since i was getting As in the other, but never did--so they said i would never get in to a good school--well no worries ..i did, so im sure you DD will have no problem

 

[Trinity721]

To the OP, about your DD.... I wouldn't worry. In my family, I was always the overachiever and in high school was in the Honor Society, took 3 AP classes, etc... My brother on the other hand was always the average student, just did well enough to get by with the average grades. Not bad, but not great. Just good.

Well I applied and got into Loyola Univ, no problem. 3 years later when my brother decided to apply, he got in no problem too! Granted, I got more scholarships and grants than he did. But we both went to the same great school.

I think your daughter will be fine. I'm not saying that how you do in high school isn't important, but I think your performance in college is what sets you up for the future.

 

[DisDuck]

Having responed earlier on this but not much of a response. Some experience of having 3 children gone-thru/going-thru college. Back in 1993 with my oldest complete HS GPA used to aid in college admission. Was a so-so student in HS told by guidance to look at community/junior colleges. Got into 1st choice (Emerson) and made Dean's list 1st semester. Graduated with a 3.2+ GPA. Major was Communication Studies which led to teaching. AP courses not taken and even if could have handled them in HS except for maybe English there is nothing for those who want to be teachers. Now HS teacher in TV/Production. 1999, oldest daughter graduates with mid 2's GPA but colleges not recalc HS GPA on only academic subjects ignore PE, Music, Art things like that. Gets into UTampa & UCONN. Goes to UCONN, reluctantly, because Tampa does not have a major in her interest, Nutrition. No AP courses again would have done poorly if taken and only Biology & Chemistry would have mattered. In 4 years at UCONN makes Dean's list 5 times, graduates with 3.3+ GPA (3.8 in major). 2003 youngest graduates HS same as previous siblings so-so but all A's in her interest Vocal Music & Theater; however, these are not 'academic' subjects so not used to recalc GPA. Gets into 3 schools, 1 as no major, 1 does not need audition and 1 requires audition. Want to major in Musical Theater but goes to UTampa as Vocal Major, currently as a sophomore running 3.3+ GPA. No AP courses in HS, none offered at all in Music or Theater anyway.

Now one my ask what is the purpose to all of the above. Very simple.
1) Whether one takes AP courses or not may have no impact on college performance
2) What your intended major becomes the important issue. If that major does not have any corresponding AP courses then why take any, won't do much good in college
3) In my opinion based on my experiences too much stake put on HS performance and AP as a determining factor. If your intended major has AP equivalents in HS and you can excel in them then take them. Otherwise do the best you can in what you have. There is a college for you out there.

 

[Kirby]

Whether one takes AP courses or not may have no impact on college performance

A friend of mine's daughter found this to be true. She was a high achiever in HS, made straight A's, took AP courses for the early college credits and because she was told that they would prepare her for college. She also took a couple college classes her senior year through our local junior college. Her freshman year, she just about flunked biology (she's going into dentistry) in her first semester. When asked if the AP courses helped prepare her for college, she responded that no, they gave her no idea what to expect. Only taking the courses at the Jr. College gave her any idea of what college is like.

 

[cheerdancer11]

You should still take the AP courses though to challenge yourself, slacking off senior year with all cake courses certainly won't help you in college.

Michele

 

[Kirby]

But just because you're a senior and not taking AP courses does not mean you are slacking off. My son is not taking any AP courses next year (his senior year), but is taking his fourth year of english, math and science, plus economics, government, probably statistics and planning on taking a couple of college courses at the local junior college. Plus he will be involved in band and working. I don't think that he will have any problem with being challenged.

Each child is different. What works for one, doesn't work for another. What is irritating is that AP courses are pushed so much and made to seem that you are a slacker if you don't take any.

 

[cheerdancer11]

I wasn't implying that you are a slacker if you don't! I'm just saying for kids that are able to should. I know seniors who took all honors/AP freshman-junior years and now are just taking English, and Gym and the rest electives.
Michele

 

[Kirby]

No offense taken. But that is the general consensus of many people here where I live. And it's not just during your senior year either.

 

[DisDuck]

cheerdancer, from you name are you into music? my daughter is a music major. of what importance would there be to her taking AP courses at all. they do not apply. she took 2 chorus classes, acting & drama. since these are not 'academic' subjects her grades in these courses were not used by any of the colleges she applied to in computing a HS GPA. colleges today only care about academic grades. on the otherhand she was required to audition singing 2 songs and a monlogue. so she could have been a straight A student with loads of AP courses but if she did not pass the auditon then the college might accept her but not in her major. what actually happened was she did not get accepted into the musical theater major but in the BA in Music Vocal Performance major (more artsy).

in my long post-reply that was the message i was trying to get across. why put all this stress on our children when it might have no significance for college or career.

 

[danacara]

She was a high achiever in HS, made straight A's, took AP courses for the early college credits and because she was told that they would prepare her for college. She also took a couple college classes her senior year through our local junior college. Her freshman year, she just about flunked biology (she's going into dentistry) in her first semester.

She must've either partied or had dirt-poor preparation at a below-average high school. That is just absolutely pathetic. She is clearly a driven kid who likes science (dentistry); if that high school set her loose on college biology in a shape where she couldn't pass the class, that's clearly their fault. There is also no way she scored a three or higher on the AP Bio exam and couldn't pass entry-level college bio; the AP actually spans further than most entry-level syllabi. Was she enrolled in an advanced class, where maybe a knowledge gap came into play?

Biology is not that hard. It's nothing compared to physics or chemistry, which get extremely theoretical in a hurry.

The AP was assuredly more challenging than anything they gave her at a junior college. The AP English Literature exam was harder than my English 220 final at Princeton.

 

[Kirby]

She must've either partied or had dirt-poor preparation at a below-average high school.

No, not the case. She attended a very good high school. Nothing prepares you for college but college itself. She's not the only one I have heard that from.