Sort of a S/O. How much do you think "helping" your children is actually "helping?"

[disykat]

The gifting is definitely smart. My parents have not done this, so will owe quite a chunk of change in state estate taxes where they live when they pass. (Federal is okay, my state they would have been fine, but their state has killer estate taxes.) Since I have taken over the finances my mom is now gifting out the 15k to their agreed upon heirs. (Dad is no longer competent to gift.) Once I receive my probable inheritance we will definitely do sporadic gifting from that to our kids.

 

[RamblingMad]

My limit is:

1) university education (student loans reduce the ability to build wealth)
2) help with first car
3) computer for school

That's it. They can pay for everything else.

 

[RamblingMad]

I did tell them all that their allowance was stopping when they turned 30. They were not happy at all.

Please tell me you're joking. Mine stopped when I turned 14. It was $5 a month in the 80s. Then, it was some money per job such as mowing the lawn until I got a job at 16.

 

[PollyannaMom]

how far do you think you can go to help your kids before it becomes more detrimental than beneficial?

It totally depends on the kid! Some will feel grateful and use the "boost" very sensibly, some will feel entitled and blow it.

I think my DS has a pretty good financial head on his shoulders, part of which is probably genetic (bankers for grandparents on both sides) but part, I like to think, was conscious effort - things like starting him off young with a small allowance, so he could practice managing some money for himself, encouraging him to take a couple of business electives in high school, etc.

We've explained credit cards, shared our financial strategies when things came up, and made sure he understands that we didn't always have as much as we do now (and exactly how that "now" was a combination of good planning and good luck). His grandparents have done the same, and he has many examples in our extended families of both what to do and what not to do.

I also think a lot of their financial attitude has to do with who their friends are. Kids who are surrounded by peers who have everything are more likely to think that's just normal, while those in the upper part of their circles are going to be reminded every day how lucky they really are.

With DS, we feel pretty comfortable helping him financially. We believe he understands what an advantage that is, and will use it to build on, rather than to avoid responsibility.

For those of you who went through something of a struggle during the "lean years" when you were just starting out (like DH and I both did!) but are doing well now, do you think those difficult years made you stronger and were worth the struggle?

I do think that time in our lives was useful. I learned how to decide what spending was worth it and what wasn't really that important to me, plus it gave me perspective. - Though I very much enjoy the advantages we have now, I also have a deep sense that I can be happy without much money if necessary.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

We gave DS18 $500+$133.00/month for his car (he bought it from my brother). He put $1500 down and pays $200/month. My brother paid for his insurance for the first year and now DS18 will be paying his own ins. We pay for his phone, health insurance costs, and I try to send him home with a cart full of Target goods when he comes home for visits

We pay $1750/semester toward his college education. That is how much is costs to go to the local community college with 17 billable hours each semester, and we made a promise that we would pay for what a community college education costs, and then some if we can, but no promises above and beyond the community college costs because we have his two siblings coming down the pipeline and will do the same for them. DS18 pays the rest of his tuition with loans and money he earns. His degree program is a 7 year program, so he will graduate with loans. He did win a $10,000 scholarship and is applying for everything he qualifies for, plus is looking into tuition reimbursement options through his work.

He has a good head on his shoulders, financially, so we help as much as we can. When his car needed repairs in Feb, we paid the $755. He was shocked, but we told him that we see that he has the funds available in his bank account and we know that he *could* have paid for the repairs if needed, but we wanted to do it for him. His bank balance doesn't usually get below $1500, and he has kept it that way since he started working at 17. He recently even researched and bought stock on the advice and opinions of his calculus professor! This kid is super-serious about his financial health lol

We didn't give a regular allowance to the kids, but we did/do give them $10-20/week once they hit high school, that they can either save, spend, or buy lunch with. We always have lunch food at home for them to take so they don't feel like they NEED to buy lunch, and so far DS18 and DD14 decided to save their money and bring food from home. DD14 saved over $450 this year so far as a freshman.

Pre-high school, we just bought what the kids needed, when they needed it. We rarely say no to paying for activities/sports/after school clubs/etc. because we want them doing these things. We tend to buy "experiences" more than things, so my kids never really had a bunch of toys sitting around. I've said no to hockey (can't afford thousands of $$ a month in ice time - my brother played up through farm league before he tore his shoulder and had to stop) so I knew that if we started hockey we would be in it for a lifetime, and I don't pay for girl/boy friend presents and dates. They are on their own for that!

My parents stopped paying for anything other than the roof over my head, and basics like water and electricity, when I was about 13...I bought my own clothes (other than replen socks and underwear at Christmas, and usually an outfit or two every school year), shoes, toiletries, school lunch, etc. I earned money babysitting on the weekends and then working my first job the day I turned 16 and got my license. I borrowed my moms car so I could go to work. The food they bought was either meant for weekend dinner or my stepfather would write "Do not touch" on it because it was his (both parents worked afternoon shift so nobody was home at night during the week except myself and my baby brother who I was also in charge of - they ate a big dinner with him before I got home from school, then I fed him PBJ/mac and cheese/etc later in the evenings). They didn't help with college at all, and I moved out at 19 and never went back.

 

[Wishing on a star]

There is a huge difference between 'helping' and providing and enabling success, and being a snowflake parent and always making things easy and enabling entitlement.
There is a line there.
I can, and will, help. No problem. Would never consider otherwise.

And, it is a way more complex and difficult world now, and I think it can be harder to get started and to succeed.
It just is.
You can't even buy yourself a meal and pair of quality shoes on a low/minimum wage job.
Can't buy a drivable car, based on percentage of income.
College... Are you kidding me. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, to Uncle Sam, for a degree you may or may not ever get, or that might or might not ever get a job that will be able to pay it back.

As far as the OP's husband's feelings on this, I do not believe, at all, that self-deprivation is a good thing.
I would suspect that maybe just a little bit of this might kind of go back to a common attitude "Well, I walked to school five miles, and five miles back, every day, uphill both ways, in the snow.... so by golly, so should they.

There was a big episode of Blackish based on this very issue.
He wanted to deprive his kids... Didn't last long.

 

[barkley]

Do you think you would have turned out as well if someone had been there to help out when your car needed brakes or your new job required a wardrobe you couldn't afford? How much should we let our kids struggle when we can afford to help?

see, i don't see these items as 'struggles', i see them as part of life that you need to plan for. granted-there were times when this stuff came up and i (or dh and i when first married) didn't have the means to pull from an emergency fund to pay for them but we didn't 'struggle' to deal with it, we figured it out. hustled for extra work, worked out a payment plan w/mechanic, borrowed clothes from a friend/thrift store shopped or used a credit card and cut expenses elsewhere to pay off ASAP.

i guess i'm jaded on this. i'm the very late in life child of a father who was an adult during the depression-THAT was struggling for his family. i worked public assistance programs across 3 decades-those circumstances are struggling. i live near a university town where the non necessity businesses (not items of survival-so not counting grocery, housing, utilities, pharmacy...) make all their yearly profit when the university is in session so i'm aware of average student spending habits and how they in no way/shape/form resemble 'struggling'. we probably have the highest boutique/massage/hair & nail salon/tanning/cell phone store per full time permanent resident rate in the world b/c of just student demand.

not being able to have what you WANT is not a struggle, having to cut back on cell plans/streaming services or driving a beater/using public transportation vs. leasing/owning new is not a struggle. having to make/take lunch/meal plan vs eating out is not a struggle. doing these things might not be the lifestyle someone aspires to but if having to do it b/c that's where they stand financially then any 'struggle' is one they are putting on themselves.

i don't know that we (dh and i ) would have turned out any differently if everything had been handed to us and we had never had to deal with financial challenges but i can tell you that when we had MAJOR life altering BAD financial things happen we were much more able to adapt and deal with them vs. others we've known.

 

[RamblingMad]

As far as the OP's husband's feelings on this, I do not believe, at all, that self-deprivation is a good thing.
I would suspect that maybe just a little bit of this might kind of go back to a common attitude "Well, I walked to school five miles, and five miles back, every day, uphill both ways, in the snow.... so by golly, so should they.

What are you really depriving them of by having them work for things they want?

 

[Colleen27]

We have three kids and two "bonus" kids that we've chosen to help get a foothold on adulthood, so we're pretty constrained in what we can do financially. They're all getting a good start in life but none of them are on easy street in our home so I'm not too worried that they'll expect the world on a silver platter when they strike out on their own. They're welcome to live with us, rent free, while they're still students and for a short time afterward to save for an apartment/house (assuming they're working and saving, not just screwing around), but our college-age kids do pay their own phone bills and contribute to the higher price of unlimited-bandwidth broadband at home since I wouldn't need that plan without their gaming systems. Our kids all grew up with sports and camps and opportunities to explore their interests, which I think has served them well in helping them sort out what they want to do with their lives, and they've traveled enough to have at least a little perspective on the world outside of our small town.

My husband and I mostly see eye to eye on where the line is between supporting and spoiling, but we also both come from families that are more intertwined than most which definitely shapes our approach. For example, my FIL has given us his last two trucks when he replaced them, because he figured a running vehicle was worth more to us/our kids than the minuscule trade-in was worth to him. We'll absolutely do things like that as well; my minivan will be due for replacement in another couple of years, only because I don't want to be road tripping in something with 200K+ miles, but as a well-maintained vehicle, I'd rather pass it on to one of the kids than try to sell it. Like us, our parents didn't have so much to give that their help meant we never had hard times, and I do look back on our broke newlywed days fondly so I wouldn't want to erase those times for our kids even if we did have the ability, but I would like to help them where we can.

 

[china mom]

We have this conversation at home on a regular basis. I am the OP for the "life changing money" thread.

my parents (mostly my mother) basically ruined my brothers by not giving them the tools they needed to succeed in life. And now, they never will.

Brother 1 sponged off of my parents his whole life. Brother 2 has accepted financial help from my parents but mostly gets help from his MIL. He and his wife fully expect that she will give them her house when she relocates. It is a $750K house. They can't even afford the property taxes and upkeep. But, they truly feel that they are entitled to the house.

So, every time DS16 makes a comment about moving into the apartment attached to our house, I call him by one of my brother's names to make a point.

My one job as a parent is to raise future adults. I will consider it a personal failure if they end up like my brothers.

 

[Floridaman999]

Please tell me you're joking. Mine stopped when I turned 14. It was $5 a month in the 80s. Then, it was some money per job such as mowing the lawn until I got a job at 16.

I'm quite well known for being absolutely serious here on the Dis almost 100% of the time.

 

[barkley]

You can't even buy yourself a meal and pair of quality shoes on a low/minimum wage job.

dd is working a minimum wage job. it's not her 'forever job' but for a variety of reasons she chose it fresh out of college.

she is more than able to buy a meal (eats out more than we do), buy a quality pair of shoes AND-the student loans that she began the traditional '10 year payoff plan' beginning in 1/19-are now on track to be paid off by 6/2020.

she's not living the high life-same small college apartment she had before graduation, same beater car, old cell phone/minimal plan, meal plans/packs lunches, entertainment is free/low cost if at all. volunteers for any o/t offered, always the first to swap out w/co-workers who want to take the legal holidays off (pays double).

it can be done. many people make it on minimum wage, maybe not at an overly desirable lifestyle, frequently at a lifestyle lower than when they were at when not self-supporting but they survive and are proud to be able to do so as independent responsible adults.

 

[mjkacmom]

We have three kids and two "bonus" kids that we've chosen to help get a foothold on adulthood, so we're pretty constrained in what we can do financially. They're all getting a good start in life but none of them are on easy street in our home so I'm not too worried that they'll expect the world on a silver platter when they strike out on their own. They're welcome to live with us, rent free, while they're still students and for a short time afterward to save for an apartment/house (assuming they're working and saving, not just screwing around), but our college-age kids do pay their own phone bills and contribute to the higher price of unlimited-bandwidth broadband at home since I wouldn't need that plan without their gaming systems. Our kids all grew up with sports and camps and opportunities to explore their interests, which I think has served them well in helping them sort out what they want to do with their lives, and they've traveled enough to have at least a little perspective on the world outside of our small town.

My husband and I mostly see eye to eye on where the line is between supporting and spoiling, but we also both come from families that are more intertwined than most which definitely shapes our approach. For example, my FIL has given us his last two trucks when he replaced them, because he figured a running vehicle was worth more to us/our kids than the minuscule trade-in was worth to him. We'll absolutely do things like that as well; my minivan will be due for replacement in another couple of years, only because I don't want to be road tripping in something with 200K+ miles, but as a well-maintained vehicle, I'd rather pass it on to one of the kids than try to sell it. Like us, our parents didn't have so much to give that their help meant we never had hard times, and I do look back on our broke newlywed days fondly so I wouldn't want to erase those times for our kids even if we did have the ability, but I would like to help them where we can.

We switched to unlimited a couple of years ago. Since DH and I used a fraction of the data, I made the kids pay the extra $500 a year ($100 each) to go unlimited.

 

[Colleen27]

There is a huge difference between 'helping' and providing and enabling success, and being a snowflake parent and always making things easy and enabling entitlement.
There is a line there.

I agree. But I think that line is more about *doing* for kids than *giving* to kids. They often, but not always, go hand-in-hand, of course, but I think it is possible to raise self-reliant kids who have every opportunity money can provide just as it is possible to raise spoiled, entitled kids without being able to afford to spoil them with material things. It is more about the mindset kids are raised with, whether they grow to expect that someone else will take care of them even in ways they're able to do for themselves or whether they are expected to take responsibility for what they achieve within the opportunities that they're given.

 

[mjkacmom]

dd is working a minimum wage job. it's not her 'forever job' but for a variety of reasons she chose it fresh out of college.

she is more than able to buy a meal (eats out more than we do), buy a quality pair of shoes AND-the student loans that she began the traditional '10 year payoff plan' beginning in 1/19-are now on track to be paid off by 6/2020.

she's not living the high life-same small college apartment she had before graduation, same beater car, old cell phone/minimal plan, meal plans/packs lunches, entertainment is free/low cost if at all. volunteers for any o/t offered, always the first to swap out w/co-workers who want to take the legal holidays off (pays double).

it can be done. many people make it on minimum wage, maybe not at an overly desirable lifestyle, frequently at a lifestyle lower than when they were at when not self-supporting but they survive and are proud to be able to do so as independent responsible adults.

I think it depends on location. A one bedroom apartment here is over $1000, car insurance is high. Dd22 will share an apartment with friends to keep rent down to about $600, but her student loan payments will be high. Fortunately her salary will be considerably more than minimum. I’ve never met anyone more frugal than her.

 

[disykat]

I do think it's possible to live on minimum wage - but I've never heard of anyone being able to make it work while paying to live as a single. Everyone I know who has made it work (including me when I was just starting out) managed it through shared living situations, or through living for free with the parents. Even as a salaried teacher I always shared housing to afford life.

 

[dreamer17555]

My DD lives at a residential arts school. She has been living away from home since she was 13. She is extremely hard working and IMO way too hard on herself. If I could pay for college for her (minus any scholarships because she does have excellent grades and test scores) I would happily do that and provide her a safe car (possibly new if I could afford it).

Right now her allowance is $25 a week. She uses that to supplement the meal plan and is careful with her money. She obviously is expected to care for herself (laundry, passing dorm inspection etc) and work hard at her academics. On weekends when she comes home (normally every other) she does chores (cutting grass, dishes, babysitting, scrubbing kitchen etc). She is extremely grateful and never ever greedy. She is the type of kid who saves up their allowance to buy me an amazingly perfect Christmas gift (where she really put some effort in) and also when I was just in the hospital used her money to send me flowers.

I wish I could do more for her. She is a really good kid. If I could pay for the college education I would in a heartbeat. I know her. She would continue to work hard.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

DH and I both came from Depression-era, blue-collar working families, so that's how we were raised, and on many levels, we raised our kids with that same type of thrift mentality, also. The biggest splurges we've had with our kids have been our Disney trips, and probably DS's sport (things neither of DH nor I were able to do to that degree as kids), and we don't have any regrets about those, but other than that, we live fairly frugally. We also all work hard for what we have so we have that working mentality ingrained in us.

DS has been on a kick for a few years about wanting a boat, as he and DH fish as a hobby. Our answer to him has always been that he should try to keep his college debt down low so he can maybe afford one some day down the road after he finishes school. Well, he decided to move forward anyway, but found a relatively small one that was free with a trailer on CL (and it's a doozy ) - BUT it is now a "project" he and DH are working on together to restore little by little, so hopefully by the time he's actually done with college (next year) it will be seaworthy. I'm sure many people would've taken one look at the condition of that thing and walked away, but DS has helped with our DIY projects and built lots of things himself, so he wasn't afraid of it and certainly knew if he wanted it he was going to have to figure out a way to get it himself, and he did.

DD dreams of having a certain type of car, and some of her friends are already driving them around, but, again, it's a goal for post college as she drives her grandmother's old car to school now, and she knows she's lucky to have gotten it. We also used to visit Open Houses at a place where they were building new condos when she was still like a sophomore in HS. That's been HER goal for keeping her college debt low - she even keeps a picture on her IG as a reminder. We talked a lot about that when she was deciding on where she was going to attend college and how she was going to do it. She elected to commute to an affordable school and she works part time during the school year and full time during the summers, as well as still babysits and pet sits locally whenever she can, etc. She is quite frugal with her money which is helpful.

Recently on a thread I mentioned brown bagging it to college and my comment was met with a little ridicule. A pp mentioned it's not possible to work your way through college anymore, but it is, actually, even in a high tuition and COL state. However, hard choices may have to be made. I really like what the kid who wrote "Debt Free U" had to say about it. One of the things he mentioned was the "latte factor". In other words, some today (kids and parents) want their "lattes" AND to have "the college experience" by living at school and paying room and board AND to drive a newer car AND to have spending money AND to wear nice, new clothes (no second hand), etc. That's really something to stop and think about today with soaring costs and debt loads - are we willing to give up things to make it work or do we have to have everything, still, while borrowing against our/their futures. That is a question that each family has to ask themselves. But yes, I think it does start early on, long before the college bills come in. So to that, OP, I'm probably with your husband! (Although what anyone else wants to do is completely up to them!)

 

[RamblingMad]

Recently on a thread I mentioned brown bagging it to college and my comment was met with a little ridicule. A pp mentioned it's not possible to work your way through college anymore, but it is, actually, even in a high tuition and COL state. However, hard choices may have to be made. I really like what the kid who wrote "Debt Free U" had to say about it. One of the things he mentioned was the "latte factor". In other words, some today (kids and parents) want their "lattes" AND to have "the college experience" by living at school and paying room and board AND to drive a newer car AND to have spending money AND to wear nice, new clothes (no second hand), etc. That's really something to stop and think about today with soaring costs and debt loads - are we willing to give up things to make it work or do we have to have everything, still, while borrowing against our/their futures. That is a question that each family has to ask themselves. But yes, I think it does start early on, long before the college bills come in. So to that, OP, I'm probably with your husband! (Although what anyone else wants to do is completely up to them!)

I knew kids finishing up university with credit card balances that exceeded their student loans. They wanted it all.

 

[barkley]

I think it depends on location. A one bedroom apartment here is over $1000, car insurance is high

location is a big consideration-and rents around here are about the same. car insurance she's managed to keep down b/c while she pays the cost it's on our policy so that garners more discounts than she could get on her own.

Everyone I know who has made it work (including me when I was just starting out) managed it through shared living situations,

but they/you/us (dh and i before we married) managed to survive (not nesc. live anything resembling a 'lifestyle' but survive) b/c we worked with what we had to get by.


young adults of today are no different than they were when i was growing up in the 70's as far as many having the mindset that they should walk into adulthood (be it from college or high school) into the identical or better lifestyle they had growing up. few take into consideration how long it took their parents to acquire what they have/be able to afford what they provide. many look at salaries for professions and don't consider the amounts estimated are after years in the field-not entry level. in what i fear are far too many cases parents have/are/will be shortchanging their own retirement needs/digging themselves into debt to provide extracurriculars/'opportunities'/tuition/weddings/down payments on homes let alone years of financial support for non essentials giving these young adults a very wrong view on what they can reasonably expect to be able to afford when the time comes where they HAVE TO BE SELF SUPPORTING.

i feel strongly about this in part b/c i'm watching the aftermath of it. a family member who gave their kids all the perks, lived the lifestyle they wanted vs. could afford. their kids went to private colleges assuming their income would pay the horrendous debt easily, into jobs assuming they assumed could afford the same lifestyle, had kids assuming their kids could have the same lifestyle. you can see it in their faces that they feel like failures-why can't they make it like their parents did/do? why aren't they as successful as their parents/why are they living hand to mouth? not my place to tell them mom/dad took money hand over fist from THEIR parents, that they likely have next to nothing saved for very soon to be retirement age, likely have debt so mountainous they will never be out from under it. the kids were not raised with realistic expectations and it was no advantage to them to be given 'opportunities' they/their parents could in no way afford.