Sort of a S/O. How much do you think "helping" your children is actually "helping?"

[disykat]

In some places. If you live close enough to a university to commute. And you can get into the local college. It is hardly a universal truth.

.

Actually I think it is. You quoted where she basically said "kids in the US can go to college for less than 30K a year." I think that is a truth. I totally agree that not all kids have reasonable options in their geographical area. They may not be able to go to a dream college. My kids didn't have anything commutable. They didn't find anything "free or cheap." However, they easily found multiple options for less than 30K a year, including the travel to get there. You don't have to go to the college in your backyard. You don't have to go to a private school or your state flagship. You can look at colleges where your qualifications might earn you a scholarship, even if they wouldn't have been your first choice. You can do part community college where you can live at home and then move to a more expensive school, making the average less than 30K a year. I know someone who saved lots of money by going to a small college in the midwest and then moving back to the west coast for grad school. I actually know several people who lived over a mortuary and took occasional night calls for free housing. In some areas, sharing housing off campus can save thousands. Online schools are actually a viable option for part, or even all, of your schooling.

I think people think "it costs so much money to go to school" that they accept that and take out crazy loans rather than looking for affordable options. No one HAS to pay over 30K a year for a basic undergrad degree.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I actually know several people who lived over a mortuary and took occasional night calls for free housing.

I totally wouldve done that!

 

[Dakota731]

If you just look at this generation and compare it to ours (I'm old lol) you will see that it's obviously not helping to give kids too much. When you see how many young people are in debt and living in Mom's basement with parents paying their bills then obviously they haven't been taught to be financially responsible adults. And why would they if their parents are paying for the cellphones, clothes, trips and even homes!!! We want to try to give our kids a better life than we had, but spoiling them with money and things doesn't seem to be giving them a brighter future. They are just learning to expect getting everything they want, and of course they won't be starting out with salaries as high as their parents so then they end up in debt. It may seem harsh to have kids work and pay for what they want, but in the long run they learn more about being self reliant and responsible than if mommy pays for everything. Some parents worry about being their kids' friend instead of training them to be able to take care of themselves!

 

[mjkacmom]

Sorry, but everyone has choices. You can choose to go into debt to pay $50,000 a year for college or you can choose not to. There are always other options. You can go to a cheaper university for 2 years and then transfer to a more elite school. You can go to a trade school. You can go into the armed services and go to school for free. You may not like the other options, but they are other options.

Sorry, not everyone has the same choices, there are zero colleges here that are as inexpensive as the ones you mentioned. Zero, not even community college.

 

[china mom]

I have been trying to reinforce to my kids that whatever wealth we have took a lifetime to accumulate and that there have been sacrifices. I have emphasized that their first home will not be a huge house but most likely a shared living situation.

I am proud to say that at least something has stuck. DS16 has been scouring realtor.com to get an idea what kind of a house he will be able to afford (eventually) if he follows his chosen career path of High School teacher. He understands that the house may not come right away but he wants to get an idea if he will be able to support a family one day. Deep thoughts for a 16 year old.

He is also saving for a truck because he wants to buy it on his own (well, we pay up front and he would make payments to us).

 

[Colleen27]

If you just look at this generation and compare it to ours (I'm old lol) you will see that it's obviously not helping to give kids too much. When you see how many young people are in debt and living in Mom's basement with parents paying their bills then obviously they haven't been taught to be financially responsible adults. And why would they if their parents are paying for the cellphones, clothes, trips and even homes!!! We want to try to give our kids a better life than we had, but spoiling them with money and things doesn't seem to be giving them a brighter future. They are just learning to expect getting everything they want, and of course they won't be starting out with salaries as high as their parents so then they end up in debt. It may seem harsh to have kids work and pay for what they want, but in the long run they learn more about being self reliant and responsible than if mommy pays for everything. Some parents worry about being their kids' friend instead of training them to be able to take care of themselves!

The "kids these days" posts overlook the objective reality of the way our economy has changed over the past few generations, though. My grandfather supported a family in a middle-class lifestyle, including debt-free college for both kids (one at a private university), with an 8th grade education and a union job. My father bought a nice house in the suburbs on a GED and a union job. Those jobs are gone, that house costs 10x what it did 40 years ago, and that university is now 50K/year. Many young people are living at home longer simply because rent has increased much, much faster than wages, and the increasing importance of credit scoring in our world makes roommate situations more financially risky than they were in the past. In my state, the car insurance pricing penalty for bad credit is worse than the rate increase for a DUI.

My husband is currently interviewing for an assistant. The starting pay is the exact same hourly rate my high school boyfriend made in his summer job when we were 18... 20 years ago. I can guarantee you rent and car insurance and utility bills aren't what they were 20 years ago. But when that kid, because this is a semi-skilled/just above entry level position, has to live at home to be able to afford the car that gets him to work and the cell phone that is expected for on-call responsibilities, many will line up to point to him as unreasonably entitled and blame his parents for spoiling him. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone... but neither do any of the generalizations above. I know plenty of young adults who would move out in a heartbeat if they could afford both rent and their vehicle and still have money left over to eat and occasionally hang out with friends.

 

[MrsPete]

Sorry, not everyone has the same choices, there are zero colleges here that are as inexpensive as the ones you mentioned. Zero, not even community college.

Options to lower the cost of college exist everywhere:
- Take dual-enrollment classes in high school
- Take online classes so you don't have to pay for housing
- Join the military reserves
- Become an RA to lower the cost of housing during college

That's just a few ways. Someone will say, "Oh, but none of those would work for me" -- the list could go on. If you're looking for ways to make college affordable, you will find a way.

If you live in a place where college is expensive, likely the wages are high as well.

 

[barkley]

- Take online classes so you don't have to pay for housing

our state universities are reporting reduced enrollments which they say in part is directly b/c of online educational options. they point to the cost of taking classes online vs. attending/living at a brick and mortar university as being more financially appealing to potential students (ds takes the bulk of his classes on-line for other reasons but it is a tremendous savings vs. taking the identical classes at the college).

 

[mjkacmom]

Options to lower the cost of college exist everywhere:
- Take dual-enrollment classes in high school
- Take online classes so you don't have to pay for housing
- Join the military reserves
- Become an RA to lower the cost of housing during college

That's just a few ways. Someone will say, "Oh, but none of those would work for me" -- the list could go on. If you're looking for ways to make college affordable, you will find a way.

If you live in a place where college is expensive, likely the wages are high as well.

Every dual enrollment class my kids have taken in high school have not been accepted by their colleges. I don’t know if it’s the same elsewhere, but RA positions at both Dd and ds’s universities were wanted by many, Dd did make it to the final round sophomore year but didn’t get it, so she moved off campus. I think online classes sound crushingly depressing, commuting is bad enough when all of your friends leave, who would you even socialize with. It’s rare that any of my kids ever go a day without being with friends, I know some are different.

 

[longboard55]

I like the people that brag about working to pay their own tuition back when it was $100 a semester, now its $6000. Bottom line apartments and education in our area is not affordable to anyone in their 20s. I see a lot of parents make judgements on others until their kids get that age.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The "kids these days" posts overlook the objective reality of the way our economy has changed over the past few generations, though. My grandfather supported a family in a middle-class lifestyle, including debt-free college for both kids (one at a private university), with an 8th grade education and a union job. My father bought a nice house in the suburbs on a GED and a union job. Those jobs are gone, that house costs 10x what it did 40 years ago, and that university is now 50K/year. Many young people are living at home longer simply because rent has increased much, much faster than wages, and the increasing importance of credit scoring in our world makes roommate situations more financially risky than they were in the past. In my state, the car insurance pricing penalty for bad credit is worse than the rate increase for a DUI.

My husband is currently interviewing for an assistant. The starting pay is the exact same hourly rate my high school boyfriend made in his summer job when we were 18... 20 years ago. I can guarantee you rent and car insurance and utility bills aren't what they were 20 years ago. But when that kid, because this is a semi-skilled/just above entry level position, has to live at home to be able to afford the car that gets him to work and the cell phone that is expected for on-call responsibilities, many will line up to point to him as unreasonably entitled and blame his parents for spoiling him. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone... but neither do any of the generalizations above. I know plenty of young adults who would move out in a heartbeat if they could afford both rent and their vehicle and still have money left over to eat and occasionally hang out with friends.

I agree with this, but I see it more as a reason to keep college costs as low as possible.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Every dual enrollment class my kids have taken in high school have not been accepted by their colleges. I don’t know if it’s the same elsewhere, but RA positions at both Dd and ds’s universities were wanted by many, Dd did make it to the final round sophomore year but didn’t get it, so she moved off campus. I think online classes sound crushingly depressing, commuting is bad enough when all of your friends leave, who would you even socialize with. It’s rare that any of my kids ever go a day without being with friends, I know some are different.

Our experience mirrors yours!!


On paper Mrs. Pete's ideas sound amazing, but none would have worked for my kids in our area.


Additionally, she mentions the military reserves, but that's not always a given either. My youngest son suffered a freak knee injury in high school and has needed 3 surgeries and still can't run or jog. The military won't even look at him. he does have two friends that are in the military full time and it doesn't sound like everyone that applies gets in automatically.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I was talking in person to someone I know the other day whose child was favoring a college costing $70K/yr. Child was on the way to the open house for accepted students at this school. Intended major a very common one that is offered at many schools, and child was accepted at many schools. Child would be getting no scholarships, and child and family would have to pay full amount. Family is working class and not wealthy, with more than one younger child. Person said costs would come to $300K when all is said and done. I asked why not consider other schools. Answer was, "[Child] likes this one".

 

[cabanafrau]

I was talking in person to someone I know the other day whose child was favoring a college costing $70K/yr. Child was on the way to the open house for accepted students at this school. Intended major a very common one that is offered at many schools, and child was accepted at many schools. Child would be getting no scholarships, and child and family would have to pay full amount. Family is working class and not wealthy, with more than one younger children. Person said costs would come to $300K when all is said and done. I asked why not consider other schools. Answer was, "[Child] likes this one".

I know someone whose eldest child selected their school on the basis of how beautiful it is. She just "saw herself there". Had no idea what she was going to major in. She attended and graduated with a rather general degree and quite a bit of student loan debt. It was a real stretch for her mother to provide the help and support she did -- along with lots of added costs for plane fare back and forth.

Younger sibling took a gap year to save money and sort things out before selecting a state school. Mom is really feeling the pinch and can't swing the amount of help and support the eldest got. Two years in and youngest is contemplating finishing out at home at a school where he can commute to save money.

IMO younger sibling is getting a very raw deal.

 

[disykat]

The point isn't that every affordable option is available to everyone. It's that affordable options are out there for those that need them and are willing to stretch themselves beyond just looking at specific options.

We honestly paid less than anticipated for college because we looked hard for ways to cut costs. Too many people get a fatalistic view and pay more than they need to.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

The point isn't that every affordable option is available to everyone. It's that affordable options are out there for those that need them and are willing to stretch themselves beyond just looking at specific options.

We honestly paid less than anticipated for college because we looked hard for ways to cut costs. Too many people get a fatalistic view and pay more than they need to.

I don't doubt this at all. I think my point is, that I believe different parts of the country have more options and it can come down to where you live.


We live in a small state, but even so there is NOTHING that my kids could have commuted to....NONE. That is a huge part of the equation for some and for others it is not even remotely an option.


My kids went to state universities in NH where we live. State Universities in NH, give very little in the way of scholarships unless you are an athlete or extremely gifted in academics. My kids were qualified for neither. In high school they applied for every scholarship available and were awarded none.


I'm not complaining, it is what it is, just not a ton of options to get discounted college educations.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Every dual enrollment class my kids have taken in high school have not been accepted by their colleges. I don’t know if it’s the same elsewhere, but RA positions at both Dd and ds’s universities were wanted by many, Dd did make it to the final round sophomore year but didn’t get it, so she moved off campus. I think online classes sound crushingly depressing, commuting is bad enough when all of your friends leave, who would you even socialize with. It’s rare that any of my kids ever go a day without being with friends, I know some are different.

This type of stereotype is part of what keeps the myths going about things like commuting and the "college experience".

I think it also should highlight that different people take a different approach to college. Some are there to socialize, and some are there to simply get a degree. Neither is better or worse than the other, just different.

Who is to really say what type of experience people are to have, anyway?

There is a whole group of people who may not be able to even get a degree unless they can do it online.

Not every student is a "traditional" student.

Colleges may also be looking at online as being a key to surviving and thriving.

https://www.boston.com/news/educati...arty-meehan-online-college-existential-threat

 

[mjkacmom]

This type of stereotype is part of what keeps the myths going about things like commuting and the "college experience".

I think it also should highlight that different people take a different approach to college. Some are there to socialize, and some are there to simply get a degree. Neither is better or worse than the other, just different.

Who is to really say what type of experience people are to have, anyway?

There is a whole group of people who may not be able to even get a degree unless they can do it online.

Not every student is a "traditional" student.

Colleges may also be looking at online as being a key to surviving and thriving.

https://www.boston.com/news/educati...arty-meehan-online-college-existential-threat

My kids are there for both reasons, and my last line was “I know some are different.” My kids don’t even like to miss school, because it’s boring. Dd18 isn’t going to attend her top pick (Villanova) because it’s $73,000 a year and no merit aid. The next 3 choices are equal in cost after merit (2 OOS private sand a OOS public), they all have her program, they are all 2 hours away. The final decision is based on feel, and I believe the OOS public will be the winner, because of its large size with so much to do (Greek life, dance team, running club, honors dorm, lots of bars and restaurants). My older kids loved college, best years of their lives so far, according to them.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't doubt this at all. I think my point is, that I believe different parts of the country have more options and it can come down to where you live.


We live in a small state, but even so there is NOTHING that my kids could have commuted to....NONE. That is a huge part of the equation for some and for others it is not even remotely an option.


My kids went to state universities in NH where we live. State Universities in NH, give very little in the way of scholarships unless you are an athlete or extremely gifted in academics. My kids were qualified for neither. In high school they applied for every scholarship available and were awarded none.


I'm not complaining, it is what it is, just not a ton of options to get discounted college educations.

This brings up a good point: from what distance are people willing to, or not willing to, commute?

I've seen people here say they have a university near their homes that they can walk to.

Some people say 30 minutes is reasonable.

I know plenty of people who've commuted an hour or more. Right now DS's girlfriend has a 75 minute commute one way to school, longer with traffic. At one open house at college I met the parents of a girl who was going to be commuting by train from out of state, well over an hour and a half commute every day.

Millions of students commute.

So I think a lot of it depends.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My kids are there for both reasons, and my last line was “I know some are different.” My kids don’t even like to miss school, because it’s boring. Dd18 isn’t going to attend her top pick (Villanova) because it’s $73,000 a year and no merit aid. The next 3 choices are equal in cost after merit (2 OOS private sand a OOS public), they all have her program, they are all 2 hours away. The final decision is based on feel, and I believe the OOS public will be the winner, because of its large size with so much to do (Greek life, dance team, running club, honors dorm, lots of bars and restaurants). My older kids loved college, best years of their lives so far, according to them.

I saw that you said, "I know some are different". But that line and the first I bolded seem almost incongruent.

My DD has noticed that many of the friends she's gravitated towards, now that she's an upperclassman, are non-traditional, older students. Her closest friend at school is in her late 20s and has a child. We were at a game at another college last week and there seemed to be mostly traditional students there. She remarked that she would not like to go to that college.

Every student is different.