Passport Questions & a Gripe

vacationclub said:
Yes, I got his point. His point is that certain reasons for another business to not be able to accept an appointment at a certain time are acceptable, and other reasons are not. My response (as well as others) is that it's not your business WHY they can't take you....they just can't take you.
And he never asked. Somebody volunteered the information.

vacationclub said:
Of course. It's the post office, a national organization with thousands of offices, each with their own nuances of staffing and capabilities that change from day to day, week to week, and they don't have direct access to a government run web site with a generic list of times for a specific service.
Are you sure? Because a quick search for 'passport' gave me a site where I could find the ten closest applications or all locations within X miles - and checking each result showed me either the hours available, or that on Saturdays it's done by appointment only, or that the location always accepts applications by appointment only. Oh, it also tells whether they have facilities to take pictures or if somewhere nearby does - but Sam didn't need that feature ;).

vacationclub said:
Sure, except that has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. You're not talking about walking up to Best Buy to find it closed, you're talking about making an appointment for a specific special service that requires the right people and the right equipment to be available.
No 'right' equipment needed for passport application. Now, if the location also provides photographs and the applicant needs one, the employee needs to know how to operate the camera. I guess 'right people' would refer to the ability to communicate with the public.

vacationclub said:
The time window is simply a range at which you can do it at all, not any guarantee you can get any time you want.
He understands that. His original vent wasn't that he couldn't get the appointment for the time he wanted, but that he couldn't get the time he wanted because despite the location he chose offering this as a regular service, they knew 3.5 weeks before the date that worked for him - and who doesn't try to make appointments for self-convenience - that they wouldn't have enough staff during some of the hours the normally provide this service.

vacationclub said:
No, I responded directly to his most recent post that responded to someone else. Read it again. I used his OP to show that the person he was responding to was not out of line and to remind him of what he said to start this thread.
You responded to his update of his passport search saga.

vacationclub said:
They don't update the national web site for each and every zip coded post office each and every day of the year, multiple times a day, just to update when someone booked a passport appointment
Right. We get all that. Sam probably never would've posted a word here about his passort problems (at least until last week) if he'd been told simply, "We don't have anything available that morning; we can take you at 2:30."

vacationclub said:
Passports are a special service of the post office, something not related to their normal business of delivering mail. Is it realistic to expect each and every post office is going to put that much effort into something like passport scheduling?
Service. Not "special" service. It's so normal a service, most of the post offices in my area that offer passport application service do it on a walk-in basis.
 
And he never asked. Somebody volunteered the information.
Exactly. They made the mistake of letting him know something that would make him feel entitled to tell them how to run their business without any knowledge of the reasons behind why they run their business the way they do. It doesn't matter how he got this info (if he asked or they made the mistake of being honest with him) he still got it and based his complaint on it.

Are you sure? Because a quick search for 'passport' gave me a site where I could find the ten closest applications or all locations within X miles - and checking each result showed me either the hours available, or that on Saturdays it's done by appointment only, or that the location always accepts applications by appointment only. Oh, it also tells whether they have facilities to take pictures or if somewhere nearby does - but Sam didn't need that feature ;).
Am I sure of what? The things you just described don't have anything to do with what I was responding to....which is that a web site can't possibly be reasonably expected to list daily updates to schedules of a special service when you can just call to find out what's available in that posted time window. My hair dresser, doctor and carpet installer don't do that either, and they have one office, not thousands, and it's their main business activity, not an extra service.

No 'right' equipment needed for passport application. Now, if the location also provides photographs and the applicant needs one, the employee needs to know how to operate the camera. I guess 'right people' would refer to the ability to communicate with the public.
Ah, I think I may have assumed there may be some pictures happening here, but if not I amend my statement to the right people, which in his case could simply mean "enough" people. In fact that's exactly what they said they told him: "We don't have enough people". We don't know for sure because not enough details were provided, but perhaps everyone in that PO is trained to do this, but they simply didn't have enough staff on that day at that time (the day before thanksgiving) to handle his request of 4 passport applications while still handing the flood of mail at the counter. Either way, he wanted them to bring in more staff just to serve him at a certain time. That's where I challenged him.

He understands that. His original vent wasn't that he couldn't get the appointment for the time he wanted, but that he couldn't get the time he wanted because despite the location he chose offering this as a regular service, they knew 3.5 weeks before the date that worked for him - and who doesn't try to make appointments for self-convenience - that they wouldn't have enough staff during some of the hours the normally provide this service.
So, then he obviously didn't understand that. Everyone who offers anything by appointment is offering it as a "regular" service, whatever that means. They simply couldn't do it at the time he wanted. He was upset with the reason, but admits had they lied to him or simply told him nothing at all he would have been completely accepting of their response that we can't do it at that time.

You responded to his update of his passport search saga.
Exactly, you've proven my point that I wasn't "going back to his feelings of a month ago" as he was claiming, I was responding to his update, and more specifically his response that day to someone else.

Right. We get all that. Sam probably never would've posted a word here about his passort problems (at least until last week) if he'd been told simply, "We don't have anything available that morning; we can take you at 2:30."
Yes, I believe he, myself and at least on other poster has already said that. It was their honesty to him that caused him to ironically accuse them of "almost like false advertising".

Service. Not "special" service. It's so normal a service, most of the post offices in my area that offer passport application service do it on a walk-in basis.
It's special because people who are normally doing mail work, accepting people at the counter, doing whatever else they do, have to stop doing mail work, and attend to his group of 4 people as they engage in the very specific process of applying for passports. I'm sure he would expect that they give it the proper amount of attention since it's an important process that needs to been done in a way that doesn't miss anything. He said that nobody even answered the phone when he called. Clearly they don't have a lot of extra people hanging out. My local PO has one person in it. One.
 
1) Yes, I was upset (and admitted such WAY earlier in the thread) because of the 'WHY'. Sometimes the 'WHY' does matter.
Not to you, it shouldn't. There's a million reasons why lots of businesses conduct business with you in the way they do that you don't even know about. You simply take what they offer you (for whatever reason they've arrived at that offer) and decide if it works for you. Can you imagine if Disney told people that Mickey can only sign autographs for 1 hour because the guy who actually is in the costume will pass out if he's in it longer? You realize that people will, armed with this "insider information", use it to form their self serving argument that Disney should somehow come up with a better outfit, perhaps involve NASA, so they can be serviced.

2) I never said they should hire people. I said they should TRAIN people. Not just for me, but it would help everyone (ok, 'anyone who wants a passport'). But, I still don't know what's involved with accepting the passports, maybe it's too hard for some people.
I'm not sure why you believe they need to train people. According to your OP, they told you "we don't have enough people at that time". You never said anything about them saying that only certain people that work there can handle this. Is that what they told you? As I pointed out above, if this is the same place that didn't have enough people to answer the phone, then they obviously have issues when someone wants to come in the day before thanksgiving with 4 people to apply for passports. While, from your outsiders point of view it may seem logical that they, with 3 weeks notice, simply figure out a way to either hire more people, cancel vacations, shift people from another office, etc. But from the point of view of anyone who's ever operated a lemonade stand or a larger business, the obvious solution would be to simply suggest another time to you (but not tell you why as to empower you to suggest to them how to run their business.)

3) In all honesty, I don't understand why they can't accept them online, but that's another issue.
Yes, that is another issue. It's been a few years since I did this, but I'm pretty sure that you need to be there in person to prove to someone that you are who you are saying you are. That's the entire point of a passport....to prove identity. It's a cumbersome process because it's a matter of national security. I think it deserves some patience.

4) My bottom line... in my OPINION, getting a passport shouldn't be this difficult.
I completely agree. In many cases it isn't. But factors like where you live will cause the experience to vary.
 
4) My bottom line... in my OPINION, getting a passport shouldn't be this difficult.

Agreed. I just put my zip code into the website. There are 25 locations (PO) within 10 miles and 63 within 25 miles. The problem is the passport office doesn't seem to see the need for many acceptance offices near your home.
 

Every time I tell myself I'm going to just let this go, I get sucked back in.

OK, vacationclub, you win. We just spent the last two days rehashing what had already been done within the first two days. Did I overreact? Sure. So sue me.
 
vacationclub said:
Exactly. They made the mistake of letting him know something that would make him feel entitled to tell them how to run their business...
I've read the entire thread. I've seen several posts where Sam told us how the USPS should be running their business - this is, after all, a vent thread - but never once where he told them.


vacationclub said:
We don't know for sure because not enough details were provided, but perhaps everyone in that PO is trained to do this, but they simply didn't have enough staff on that day at that time (the day before thanksgiving) to handle his request of 4 passport applications while still handing the flood of mail at the counter
You're not the first person to make this claim, but you are the most recent (which is the only reason I'm quoting you and not one of the several others). I just plain can't figure out where this misconception was, well, concieved :confused3. Unless people are mailing themselves to their destinations at the last minute instead of driving or flying.

I think several folks are confusing the busiest travel day of the year with the busiest mailing day. That's something like December 19 or December 14. My normally busy post office had NO line when I went in during lunch last Wednesday.

vacationclub said:
So, then he obviously didn't understand that. Everyone who offers anything by appointment is offering it as a "regular" service, whatever that means. They simply couldn't do it at the time he wanted. He was upset with the reason, but admits had they lied to him or simply told him nothing at all he would have been completely accepting of their response that we can't do it at that time.
I don't know Sam, yet I know he understands the meaning, point, and concept of "appointment" better than anyone at his local post office. I bet he's more familiar with the basics of customer service as well. He was understandably put out because he was informed at the time he tried to make the mandated appointment that they would be shot-staffed then but coup accommodate him later that day. That was annoying in itself. Your doctor, dentist, hairdresser, plumber, etc, doesn't tell you why you can't have an appointment at the time you want. Why anybody at the PO revealed the reason to the OP is anybody's guess.

But then to have his actual appointment cancelled a day in advance because - wait for it - the post office was going to be short-staffed all day? I don't believe for an instant that a large number of workers suddenly got I'll or had family emergencies. Neither do the postal employees I know.

vacationclub said:
It's special because people who are normally doing mail work, accepting people at the counter, doing whatever else they do, have to stop doing mail work, and attend to his group of 4 people as they engage in the very specific process of applying for passports. I'm sure he would expect that they give it the proper amount of attention since it's an important process that needs to been done in a way that doesn't miss anything. He said that nobody even answered the phone when he called. Clearly
they don't have a lot of extra people hanging out. My local PO has one person in it. One.
Then I'm positive your local post office doesn't provide passport application processing. Post offices or other official locations that provide this service have to have personnel (nOT just a single person) capable of handling the application process. The main post office here has that; the branch office, in a storefront with two counter positions but usually only one clerk, doesn't.
 
vacationclub said:
While, from your outsiders point of view it may seem logical that they, with 3 weeks notice, simply figure out a way to either hire more people, cancel vacations, shift people from another office, etc.
His logical solution is to already have on staff more than one person who can process passport applications and to not let them all have the same time off. Not hire more people, borrow from other cities, or cancel vacations - just plan ahead.
 
http://www.epassportphoto.com/Wizard.aspx?country=US&photo=0

This website has free software online to do your own PP photos, we did ours with it. When you upload your photos, the software has a design template that will have to correct demensions to use.
It takes all the worry out of the acceptability of the size and quality.

There is a No Thanks prompt before ordering. Do not order, just let it take you to the next page where you can download it to your computer. From there I sent mine to Walgreens to print.
Ours cost about $2.00 for the 5 of us doing it free.

The format is a 4 x 6 photo. From there it is about 5 photos that you cut out. Take it to the postoffice and they can process the application.

Remember too, they take the original Birth certificates in case you will need them.

We had a Nexus card. Can not fly with it, but we cruise and go into Canada by auto with the Pass port card for less then half the price of a passport.

:surfweb:
 
Just to update this saga...

December 3
Entire family goes to the post office that allows walkups (on saturday only... wouldn't know if I hadn't gone to the PO for something else and seen the sign). The couple at the front of the line with an infant spends 15 minutes trying to get a good picture of the baby then find out the mom doesn't have an ID with her so they can't continue.

The next family in line has something wrong with their form (possibly not filled out in the correct color), picks up another form and goes to a table to fill it out.

Our turn. The worker goes through all our forms (I don't have the birthplace of my parents on mine-whoops), makes some copies of our IDs, fills out information at the bottom of each form, staples the pictures to the forms, and collects our money. I think we were at the PO about 45 minutes to an hour and about 20-30 minutes of that was us at the counter.

December 14
Our passports arrive in the mail.
 
Yay, Sam! Thanks for the update. My application procedure was easier and harder (post office takes walk ins only, but my picture was no good and yes, I signed using the wrong ink color), but because I'm cheap I was in line over two hours.

I applied July 12, 2010 I think; whatever the last day before the price increase went into effect was ;), along with many like-minded local residents.
 












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