External flashes

i have read good things about some vivitar flashes including iehttp://www.strobist.blogspot.com/2007/02/return-of-classic.htmland that is actually the brand my camera store employees recommend... i've looked at them in person and they look ok just nothing "fancy". it kind of sounds to me like you need to know what you are doing with this one and since i am totally new to flash that makes me nervous:rotfl:
smart shooter in yrs past recommended a vivitar as well( don't remember the model) but doesn't this year ...i have the metz 58a1 on my wish list...that is one of their recommended flashes and has a cool little fill-flash . it's $399 so tough to decide, stripped down vivitar for 1/3 the price or the one i've been drooling over for 2 yrs:rotfl:( knew i was going to upgrade my body and wanted to make sure it would work)
it looks like they are reintroduced so i probably wouldn't buy one off ebay or someplace just to be sure i didn't get the old one that might damage something


I know exactly how you feel. I've been looking at the Oly FL50 but for the limited times I use flash, $450 seems excessive. The FL36 is about half that price but I've read some conflicting reviews on that unit regarding cycle time, power, etc.

If I understand this correctly the Vivitar can be used as a slave so for the $400 I could get 3 units and really try to get creative :confused3
 
I know exactly how you feel. I've been looking at the Oly FL50 but for the limited times I use flash, $450 seems excessive. The FL36 is about half that price but I've read some conflicting reviews on that unit regarding cycle time, power, etc.

If I understand this correctly the Vivitar can be used as a slave so for the $400 I could get 3 units and really try to get creative :confused3

i was looking on amazon, i could get 3 units, plus an umbrella( they have one you can remove the cover so use it white or black for under $30) and stands, a diffuser and still have money left :)
i did read on pop photo and i think that strobist link or somewhere the rechargable batteries help a little . i love love love doing still lifes so it wouldn't really matter much there but for stopping action it sure would.
i did just remember why i decided to go with the metz originally ( and probably still will) it has high speed sync. which i figured i might want for outside
 
do they have to be the same brand as the master? ie could i use a metz flash as the master then vivitar or a cheaper brand as a slave?
 
If you're talking about an optical slave, then it doesn't matter what brand you're using; the slave will be triggered by any flash of light it detects, even that of the built-in flash from a point and shoot camera. One thing to consider with digital cameras is that on-camera flash units and off-camera units using wireless TTL often emit a pre-flash for the purpose of metering. This pre-flash can be so quick that you may not notice it, but it will trigger the slave flash prematurely, unless the slave flash has a mechanism to ignore digital pre-flash. Using the master in a mode other than TTL (eg. manual, triggered by Pocket Wizard or similar method) can prevent this problem from occurring. This is yet another reason for learning manual exposure and manual flash, rather than always relying on automatic metering and TTL.

If you're talking about a proprietary wireless function, like Nikon's CLS, which uses infrared, then it needs to be a dedicated unit, which means it could either be the same brand as the camera or a third-party brand that explicitly states it's compatible with the camera manufacturer's system. For instance, Metz has units that are compatible with Nikon's CLS, so it could be master or slave with other Nikon CLS flash units and/or with Nikon bodies that can serve as CLS commanders. I haven't tried this myself, but I've heard from others that mixing Nikon and Metz flash units in a CLS setup has been inconsistent and unreliable.

In summary, I wouldn't hesitate to mix brands if I were using optical slave or a manual wireless radio trigger, such as the Pocket Wizard. However, if using Nikon CLS or Canon's wireless TTL infrared system, I would stick with all the same brand, especially if you plan on using the setup outdoors or on-location.
 

/
As of 2006, Vivitar Corporation no longer exists!

The ***only*** thing left is the Vivitar brand! No other assets were purchased from the parent company.

If you got the cash, I'm sure they would be willing to license "Vivitar" as a brand of bubble gum!

Sorry, but any new products with the "Vivitar" brand are in no ways related to the work horse electronic flash units of film cameras.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivitar

-Paul
 
The Wein Peanut is just one of several after-market optical devices that will allow you to optically trigger a flash unit that does not already have a built-in optical flash. Many flash units already have a built-in optical flash. For instance, the Nikon SB-800 and SB-900 both have SU-4 Optical Slave mode. Also, the new LumoPro LP120 has a built-in optical slave mode. Many studio lights and monolights also have built-in optical slaves.

If you must use an aftermarket device, like the Wein Peanut, to use your flash as an optical slave, make sure that you have the proper connection. Some slave devices are built into a hotshoe adapter, some have a mini-jack, etc..
 
I have the old 285H which is a workhorse for film. I still will use sometimes as an off camera fill.

The old 285H was fantastic. If you can still find an old one for cheap, jump on it (if you're not afraid of manual flash). Vivitar re-introduced the 285HV a while back, but quality control on the new units has been lacking. Buyers complained left and right that the newer units were dying shortly after they were purchased. As pjacobi said, Vivitar was recently bought out and the new company is continuing to manufacture the 285 under a different name, but, it's still a piece of junk, if not even worse.
 
This is the another of a series of posts focused on how to shoot different shows, attractions, rides, and events at Disney Theme Parks. The purpose is to help people learn how to shoot those things with their camera and what they can reasonably expect from their camera. If it works as well as I hope, it can also be a way for people to see what they might get for spending more money and learning time on different cameras.

On this forum, we run the gamut from cell phone cameras to high end DSLRs with ridiculously large lenses. I'm hoping that we'll get a variety of posts from people with cameras in all ranges. Even if you feel that your photos don't measure up to what others have posted, please post some samples anyway. We're all at different levels of gear and skill and we can all learn from each other. A typical S3 user will probably learn more from your S3 shot than they will from Todd H's latest masterpiece.


Other posts in the series include:
How To Shoot: Fireworks
How to Shoot: Parades
How to Shoot: Indoor Shows
How To Shoot: Cinderella's Castle
How To Shoot: SpectroMagic
How To Shoot: The Safari Ride


Dark rides are one of the greatest photographic challenges at the theme parks. Honestly, I've rarely been thrilled with the pictures that result from shooting dark rides. Taking them is often more compelling for the challenge of making it work rather than the aesthetic value of the pictures. They also fill that need to try to document a trip. It feels strange to have shots from some rides and then leave others off.

What constitutes a dark ride? It depends on your camera. Just about any indoor attraction can be a challenge for most pocket cameras. At the other extreme, I've yet to see a good shot from the action part of rides like the Rockin' Roller Coaster, Space Mountain, or Dinosaur.

I don't pretend to be an expert on dark ride shooting. I've tried a few techniques over the years and have gotten passable results. Please don't think that anything I suggest is the final word on how it should be done. The one thing that I won't back down on is that using flash is not the answer. First, the flash pictures are inevitably ugly. Second, the annoy the heck out of everyone around you. Finally, they are against park rules.

OK, enough rambling. How do you actually shoot on a dark ride? First, let's talk about general shooting technique. After that, we'll discuss camera settings.

One key to shooting on dark rides is to get the camera as still as possible. If you are a zealot, it might help to bring a monopod on the ride and use that to stabilize your camera. Stabilized lenses and camera bodies also help. Work on camera holding techniques to help you hold the camera as still as possible. Support your lens from the bottom, not the top. Keep your arms tucked in to your sides. Sometimes you can use part of the ride to help stabilize the camera by resting your elbow on a support bar.

You not only have to minimize camera movement, you've got to minimize ride movement. Timing is important. Even slow moving rides jerk and buck a little. Try to shoot during pauses in the motion. Try to shoot objects that you are moving towards rather than things passing along side you. Rides often stop briefly to help people that need extra time to get on or off the ride. Take advantage of those pauses.

Wide angle shots are easier than zoomed in shots. When you zoom in, you magnify motion. You have to keep a camera much more still when shooting at 200mm than you do when shooting at 20mm.

There are several ways to handle exposure on dark rides. One technique is to switch your camera to full manual mode. Adjust the ISO as high as it will go. Adjust the aperture as wide as possible (lowest f-stop number). Set your shutter speed as low as possible for the shooting conditions. If your shutter speed is too slow, your pictures will be blurry because the camera moved too much during the shot. I like 1/30 of a second. I'll go lower if I'm stopped and the subject needs it. You'll have to go higher if you or your subject are moving too much.

The good thing about this approach is that you are shooting at the extreme of your camera's capability. If your shot is too dark, you at least know that you did the best you could. The downside is that if it is momentarily too bright, you risk overexposing. You can keep an eye on your meter and boost your shutter speed or drop your ISO in those cases.

Another approach is to use shutter priority mode. You can put your ISO in auto mode or just set it manually. With shutter priority mode, your camera will help you out if the scene is too bright by adjusting either your ISO or your aperture.With my camera, it won't automatically switch to ISO 6400, so I often set it there manually.

If you use an automatic mode or rely on your meter in manual mode, I recommend that you underexpose your shots. Most dark rides are supposed to be dark. It sets the mood. If you could step out of your boat on Pirates of the Carribean, set up your tripod, and fire off a perfect exposure, the result would look like Pirates in the daylight. The mood would be wrong. I prefer to set my exposure compensation on dark rides at anywhere from -1 to -2 EV.

As for metering mode, I always left mine in matrix/evaluative mode. You might experiment to see what works best for you. You could make a good case for shooting in spot mode, but I find it too hard to do well on the fly. I also tend to forget about the metering mode and then botch shots for a while after the ride. That happens to me anyway. I have several 6400 ISO -1 EV shots taken in broad daylight after coming off a ride.

The biggest problem with most dark ride shots are motion blur and noise. For motion blur, the only cures are to find a better way to stabilize your camera and to use faster shutter speeds. You can't really fix blurry in post production. For noise, you can use noise reduction software. There is always a tradeoff between getting rid of noise and losing detail. Noisy is always better than blurry.

These same techniques also apply for dark shows as well as rides. The main differences are that you can stabilize yourself better for shows, but you usually have to worry more about your subject moving. In those cases, try to shoot when your subject is paused for a moment.

Here are a few sample dark ride shots and what I did to shoot them.

This is the caretaker in Haunted Mansion. It's probably my darkest capture. The ride happened to stop at this point, so I was able to shoot without concern for ride motion. There is no way that I could have captured him otherwise. I had my camera in manual exposure mode with the ISO set to 6400 and the aperture set to f/1.8. I tried several different shutter speeds. For this particularly snap, I was at 3/10s. To stabilize the camera, I braced my arms against the bar on the ride car. I fired a burst of shots as I often find that the second or third shot in a burst is sharper than the first. Notice that the picture is still really dark. A normal exposure would have lit the background. Not only would the shutter speed have been impossibly high, the resulting picture would have lost the moody, dark look.
572689805_3xqYo-L.jpg


Here is an It's A Small World shot. It's much lighter than the Haunted Mansion, so it is shootable to a much broader range of cameras. This shot was taken at ISO 1600, f/2.2, and 50mm. Even on IaSW, it's good to have a prime lens to get a wider aperture. You can usually find 50mm primes pretty cheap. This one was Canon's 50mm f/1.8 which sells for about $70.
572691068_Y8Gwd-L.jpg


Here is a shot from the Spaceship Earth ride in Epcot. I shot it in Shutter Priority with the shutter speed locked at 1/30s and the ISO at 6400. I set exposure comp at -2/3 EV. The aperture the camera chose was f/2.2. I probably would have gotten a better picture at f/1.8 and 1/50s. My logic for Shutter Priority over Aperture Priority is that I'd rather have an underexposed shot at an acceptable shutter speed than a well exposed but blurry shot at a ridiculous shutter speed.
571816293_TPeBn-L.jpg


So let's hear about your dark ride techniques and see samples of your work.
 
For dark rides, I just throw on the 50 1.8, put it in AV mode, lock my aperture at 1.8, steady myself, breath out, squeeze, and take multiple shots. Sometimes you get lucky on Spaceship Earth and the ride stops at a nice spot. Or on something like The Great Movie Ride, you stop often. I take multiple shots because digital is cheap and something may happen to make the image blurry.

I shot these with my 40d on iso 3200, I believe. Don't think I did much PP or anything on them.

3350727976_44d6cd35d7_b.jpg


3350730228_8d968171c4_b.jpg


3350736026_89289827fc_b.jpg


3383873484_e307c9676e_o.jpg


3388263223_30e0d5b956_o.jpg
 
Hi Mark! I love your turorial threads. I always learn so much from them. I took an 8 week photography class and I think I have learned more from you guys here on the Dis!

So my question is with regards to the settings for your SSE picture. If you had set the shutter speed at 1/50 s and f/1.8, would you have gotten more blur because the aperature was larger, even though the shutter speed was quicker (as compared to 1/30s)?


My other question is, could you explain EV? It's one of the things I have not been able to figure out. I know how to change it in my camera, but no clue what it is or when to use it.

Thanks!
 
If I had reduced my aperture from f/2.2 to f/1.8 and increased my shutter speed from 1/30 second to 1/50 second, two main things would have changed. First, the wider aperture would have resulted in less depth of field. Things in front of or behind the object on which I was focused would have been blurrier. Second, everything would have been a bit sharper because there would be less motion blur. At the distance my picture was taken, you probably wouldn't notice much difference between the depth of field (DOF) of an f/1.8 or f/2.2 shot. The shutter speed difference would probably be more substantial.

EV is an acronym for Exposure Value. It's essentially a measure of brightness or exposure. If I "dial in -1 EV", that means that I'm telling my camera to underexpose the picture by 1 stop. 1 stop means doubling or halving the shutter speed or the ISO or the aperture area (which doesn't translate well into f-stop numbers). So if I am about to shoot something at ISO 400, 1/30 second, and f/4 but I tell my camera to use -1 EV, it will either change the ISO to 200 (half as sensitive) OR the shutter speed to 1/60 second (twice as fast), OR the aperture to f/5.6 (half as much area as f/4). Any one of those adjustments will result in a picture that is 1 stop less exposed.

Another common term for it is adjust the camera's exposure compensation. You are telling the camera to meter like it normally would but to then change that meter reading by the amount of your exposure compensation.

Why would you do it? For several possible reasons. In the case of dark rides, I set the exposure compensation lower because I want the picture to be dark. If I didn't, those dark scenes would look too bright.

Another reason is to compensate for something fooling the camera's meter. The meter assumes that the world is grey. If it sees something white (like a bunch of snow), it assumes that it is grey that is brightly lit. It will lower the exposure to make the snow look grey. You have to tell it to overexpose by a stop or two (+1 EV or +2 EV) to make the snow look white again. Conversely, if you shoot someone in a black suit in front of a black background, the camera's meter will assume that it is a grey suit that is not well lit. It will increase the exposure so that the suit looks grey. You have to tell it to underexpose by a stop so that it really does look black.

The cases are relatively rare. I use exposure compensation on less than 5% of the pictures that I take. My simple advice would be to just check your LCD when in doubt. If it looks to bright or too dark, adjust the exposure compensation. Even better, learn to read your histogram and just by that.

One other thing worthy of note is that exposure compensation doesn't apply when you shoot in manual mode. In that case, the camera isn't setting the exposure setting, you are. It's possible that the camera will reflect the exposure compensation in the meter reading in manual mode (I've never checked), but it won't change your settings. Well, maybe if you shoot in manual exposure mode with auto-ISO. I've never tried that.
 
Thanks again Mark, for letting me pick your brain. Your explainations are immensely helpful to this newbie. :flower3: Now I actually have to get my DSLR! But in the mean time I am having fun trying some things out with my bridge camera.
 
Dark rides are one of the greatest photographic challenges at the theme parks. Honestly, I've rarely been thrilled with the pictures that result from shooting dark rides. Taking them is often more compelling for the challenge of making it work rather than the aesthetic value of the pictures. They also fill that need to try to document a trip. It feels strange to have shots from some rides and then leave others off.

Great, great tutorial, Mark :thumbsup2. I can't wait to go back in September and utilize some of your pointers.

I definitely agree that shooting dark rides is more about the challenge of seeing if it can be done rather than trying to capture an image that you're planning on blowing up to hang over your mantle. However, I think besides the challenge, for me personally it's also about capturing some scenes from these dark rides from which you get only brief glimpses. Having pictures lets me study the scenes a little more carefully and pick up on details that would otherwise go completely unnoticed.

My approach to shooting most dark rides is very similar to what Mark has already said above. Here's my approach to shooting say, the Haunted Mansion:
- most of the time, I use the fastest lens I own, which is the same lens Mark is referring to above, the Canon 50mm f/1.8
- my camera body is the Canon 5DM2, which has an extremely high ISO capability and a full frame sensor, so the noise at the higher ISO levels (3200+) is pretty tolerable (until you get to 25600 and there it gets pretty bad). Having this high ISO capability helps tremendously on a dark ride, but that doesn't mean that a good exposure is not possible in most dark ride scenes without it. You may just need to have a faster lens and be able to hold the camera steady enough for a slower shutter speed (or use a monopod, as Mark suggests above).
- I set my shooting mode to Tv (which is Canonspeak for shutter priority), my ISO to 12800 (however, I will now start using Mark's suggestion of lowering the ISO and using exposure compensation), and because the HM is so dark, the camera will almost always choose the widest aperture of f/1.8
- here's the tricky part, and I guess this is my "secret:" I always use manual focus, not by choice, but because I have never been able to get any of my cameras to auto focus in the HM (and most other dark rides, for that matter). One thing that makes manual focus easier with the Canon 50mm f/1.8 is the fact that the focus ring moves very, very easily (too easily for probably most other shooting conditions). It's almost too loose, but it allows me to support the lens with my left hand underneath and keep one finger on the focus ring to easily move it back and forth when composing a shot. And the big trick for shooting in the HM with manual focus... see if you can bring the candle lights into focus when composing. Most of the time, the candle lights will be in the same DOF as your subject in the HM, so if you nail focus on the candle lights, which will [most of the time] be easier to focus on, you should achieve manual focus for the scene reasonably well.

Here's a shot of my "technique." Not sure if you can see it very well, but my pointer finger is used for manual focus to gently slide the focus ring back and forth (however, I do recommend trying to hold your head straight when you shoot :rolleyes1)
3780667651_805faa7618.jpg

(50mm, 1/30 sec., f/1.8, ISO 12800)

Here's one where I manually focused on the candle lights on Madame Leota's table. I got lucky with the position of Leota's crystal ball that it really shows up against the green ghoulish lighting in the background (but unfortunately also produced an effect "spoiler" that I should have cloned out in PP).
3654944709_a76511e6c3.jpg

(50mm, 1/40 sec, f/1.8, ISO 12800)

However, for shooting an extremely difficult dark ride like Peter Pan's Flight, I would simply use all the above techniques and pray like crazy that you get anything to come out at all.
3577818732_e2abf4ce0d.jpg

(50mm, 1/50 sec., f/1.8, ISO 12800)

Now that camera DSLR technology is getting increasingly better and more cameras will begin having more high ISO capabilities, we'll all probably start seeing more and more of these kind of shots. Since everyone basically has the same vantage point, it will become harder and harder to take more interesting pictures on dark rides. Therefore, the already-challenging-enough task of shooting dark rides will take on yet another challenge level which will be that of producing a different composition from one that's been seen 100 times before.
 
I have a D60, and when I have tried to shoot at a higher ISO (3200 or 6400) I get a lot of noise... Is there a good program to remove that noise or is it because my camera is not a FX? I use PS CS3 for my PP... I just recently got started doing any modifications to my photos, so that program is still foreign to me...
 
- most of the time, I use the fastest lens I own, which is the same lens Mark is referring to above, the Canon 50mm f/1.8
- my camera body is the Canon 5DM2

...

Now that camera DSLR technology is getting increasingly better and more cameras will begin having more high ISO capabilities, we'll all probably start seeing more and more of these kind of shots.

Nothing like slapping a $70 plastic lens on a $2,500 camera. It feels a bit like driving a Ferrari with a space saver spare, but it gets the job done.

When I first saw your shots of Peter Pan (the first decent PP shots I'd ever seen), I realized that it was sort of like a first descent thing for going down rivers. As camera capabilities improve, we'll be seeing the first decent shots of all sorts of different rides. I remember when it used to be a challenge to get something usable on IaSW. Then GDad took Haunted Mansion. Then you conquered PP. What remains to be conquered? There is nothing to see in Space Mountain (except maybe the cookie). Rockin' Roller coaster has some signs that would be fun. I tried Dinosaur and walked away with my tail between my legs. I think it's doable (particularly if you get stopped), but it was more than a match for me. It has the extra challenge that if you hold your camera to your eye, you are liable to get smacked in the face by a sudden car movement.
 
I have a D60, and when I have tried to shoot at a higher ISO (3200 or 6400) I get a lot of noise... Is there a good program to remove that noise or is it because my camera is not a FX? I use PS CS3 for my PP... I just recently got started doing any modifications to my photos, so that program is still foreign to me...

There are lots of programs. Noise Ninja seems to be the most popular right now. It used to be Neat Image. The "cool" people keep telling me to try Dfine. There are several other popular packages, but I don't know anything about them.
 













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