vent about WDW bus passengers

[Disneyadore]

Some people who did get doctor's notes had to pay for an office visit to get the note. There is a cost to the doctor in drafting a letter and sending it out. Whether or not they pass that cost on to the patient varies.
And, unless it changes, it is against the law in the US to be required to provide proof of disability to get accommodations.
[
That kind of 'special individual meeting with Mickey" would be the same sort of treatment that children on Make a Wish trips in the US would get, not the treatment anyone with a disability gets. So, it would be the same in the US.

There are 2 big differences in DL Paris compared to the US.
1) The US doesn't have an recognized universal card that indicates a person has a disability. This is not the case in Europe, where the DL Paris website lists a number of official things that could be counted for disability access. It also doesn't list on the DL Paris website, but other website about DL Paris indicate that there are discounts for people with 'registered disabilities' both for admission to the park and for room charges. In the US, there are no discounts, no matter what the disability. If there were discounts, US law does allow for proof of disability.

2) DL Paris park itself has many attractions that are not accessible to people with disabilities in the regular line. In terms of access, it's about how MK and Epcot were in the early 1990s. There are special 'handicapped access' routes to many attractions in DL Paris.
The Disney Studio in Paris is accessible with Mainstream (wheelchair accessible) Lines in almost all attractions, which means guests using those lines wait in the same line with everyone else. So, little special treatment there.
Here's a link to the DL Paris Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities.

The WDW Studio and AK were built with Mainstream lines. Epcot has mostly Mainstream Lines. MK has added Mainstream Lines as attractions were added or renovated, but not all were able to be changed because of space or other reasons.
THis link to the WDW Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities lists all the attractions with Mainstream Queues.

Many people with disabilities do not like how easily people can claim disabilities, but I would take issue with the 'real disabled persons will not have a problem to bring a note.'
It's very easy to say that if you are not disabled, but anyone who is disabled or has a loved one who is disabled knows it's not as easy in real life. Someone who wanted proof in terms of a letter from a doctor could just forge one.

My DD is 23 and is permanently disabled. She was born with cerebral palsy, she can't walk, she can't talk, she has seizures and it gets very tiring to have to prove to people that she is disabled. About every 3 months, our insurance company needs another note or something to prove she is disabled and they should continue to pay for any of her care.
Every time they ask, it is another call to a doctor's office and about 1/2 hour of my time. It's an imposition on my family and on her doctors to have to keep proving the same things over and over and over. Since there is not any one 'proof' in the US, if proof was needed, I could have to get many different types of 'proof' for every place we go, depending on what form they use or what kind of proof they consider 'enough'. (We already do have to do that for many services that DD needs, so it's not just theoretical. Each one has their own form they require).

Since DD has never talked, I doubt that she is going to miraculously start to talk, walk, not have seizures or be able to take care of herself after this many years.
It should be obvious to anyone looking at her that she is permanently disabled - the fact that she is strapped into a wheelchair, including her feet being strapped to the footrests, that she is signing to us instead of talking and that he wheelchair has a headrest to hold her head up when she can't support it should be clear signs to people that she is disabled.
If that's not clear enough, maybe they will see us feeding her lunch. Or, maybe she will 'entertain' them by having a seizure.
That doesn't stop people from making comments though - it doesn't happen every day, but does at least once a trip. And, she may not be able to speak, but she can hear and understand.

Sorry Sue but all this so called freedom for the disabled just puts those who really need it in "jail" created by those who misuse the same system.

If a note was enough to stop this why not? I can't Imagen that disabled or there parents prefer all the snarky comment,dirty looks,or whatever people use to make the disabled feel uncomfortable.
I strongly believe that is even not the real disabled they they try to hurt but the fact that so many cheaters,lairs and lazy persons misuse the system is the real pain.

About Paris I can be short. There park ,there rules and obviously they have more sucses filtering out those who really need care and compassion.
I know they have special discount but again only if you can provide proof that you are disabled.
Would it change the attitude if Disney did give discounts for those that provided a note? ( Not your personnel attitude but in the great sheme)

 

[honugirl]

Sorry Sue but all this so called freedom for the disabled just puts those who really need it in "jail" created by those who misuse the same system.

If a note was enough to stop this why not? I can't Imagen that disabled or there parents prefer all the snarky comment,dirty looks,or whatever people use to make the disabled feel uncomfortable.
I strongly believe that is even not the real disabled they they try to hurt but the fact that so many cheaters,lairs and lazy persons misuse the system is the real pain.

About Paris I can be short. There park ,there rules and obviously they have more sucses filtering out those who really need care and compassion.

What do you consider "disabled"?

 

[disneyjunkie]

Sorry Sue but all this so called freedom for the disabled just puts those who really need it in "jail" created by those who misuse the same system.

If a note was enough to stop this why not? I can't Imagen that disabled or there parents prefer all the snarky comment,dirty looks,or whatever people use to make the disabled feel uncomfortable.
I strongly believe that is even not the real disabled they they try to hurt but the fact that so many cheaters,lairs and lazy persons misuse the system is the real pain.

About Paris I can be short. There park ,there rules and obviously they have more sucses filtering out those who really need care and compassion.
I know they have special discount but again only if you can provide proof that you are disabled.
Would it change the attitude if Disney did give discounts for those that provided a note? ( Not your personnel attitude but in the great sheme)

Even with a note people will complain.

You see there are those who have their own idea of what disabled means. If they see someone who does fit their idea of disabled, then they will think they are faking.

 

[Cruz91]

How is this thread still open?

For the record, when I get on a bus or train (at an airport shuttle, disney, or anywhere else), I ALWAYS stand - even if there are seats - just in case someone more needy comes along who needs the seat. That is, however, my choice. I'm a 36 year old relatively healthy male, and I am incredibly thankful I am able to stand up on my own two feet.

For those who choose to remain seated - it's up to you. I always give the benefit of the doubt (maybe they have an old war wound, early onset arthritis, or whatever). I've read that 'Honor is doing the right thing - especially when nobody's looking.' If you remain seated and could stand - kharma knows. It's not for me to judge.

 

[bavaria]

How is this thread still open?

Well, frankly, I have no idea who is 'winning' because I think that many people think that their way is the right way and the only way. That includes

• people who think that they are better parents for not allowing their children to stand
• people who think that they are better parents for encouraging their children to stand
• people who think that others are rude for not giving them a seat
• people who think that others are rude for expecting people to give them a seat

There are many paths to achieve the same goal, and different people and different countries and different cultures and different age groups may choose different paths. It doesn't mean that one has to be the only 'best' and that all others by default are 'bad'.

I am regularly surprised by how many posters here seem to see thinks in absolutes, or black and white. There is not just one 'right way' to achieve something.

And again, while I may be very strongly on the side of environmentalism, while at WDW we usually rent a car so I don't have much of a dog or human or child in this fight!

 

[Halloweenqueen]

I noted in my earlier post on this thread how this whole problem could be solved with a no stand rule.

My family and I were discussing this over dinner last night. We thought of dozens of rides that were less of a risk than standing on a bus going 50mph.


Maybe if we voiced all these complaints to Disney, something could be done.

 

[Disneyadore]

What do you consider "disabled"?

I can only tell you what I consider NOT disabled.

The days people call me a drunken ***** because I can't walk straight and can pick up my change because chemo destroyed the nerves in my feet and fingers.
The many times I forget to turn down the gas because my short time memory is destroyed. The days I cry because the pills I must swallow cause infections in all my muscles.
The days I can't go buy a bread because I'm so tired that this looks like an expedition to the moon.
I only count the "good" days I have left

 

[disneyjunkie]

I noted in my earlier post on this thread how this whole problem could be solved with a no stand rule.

My family and I were discussing this over dinner last night. We thought of dozens of rides that were less of a risk than standing on a bus going 50mph.


Maybe if we voiced all these complaints to Disney, something could be done.

It's public transportation. People stand on public transportation. Those who have a problem with that, shouldn't use the public transportation that is in place.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I can only tell you what I consider NOT disabled.

The days people call me a drunken ***** because I can't walk straight and can pick up my change because chemo destroyed the nerves in my feet and fingers.
The many times I forget to turn down the gas because my short time memory is destroyed. The days I cry because the pills I must swallow cause infections in all my muscles.
The days I can't go buy a bread because I'm so tired that this looks like an expedition to the moon.
I only count the "good" days I have left

You are perfectly justified in defining your own issues. Others are not any of your business. I am sorry you have so many, though. That must be difficult.

 

[Nancy F]

I can only tell you what I consider NOT disabled.

The days people call me a drunken ***** because I can't walk straight and can pick up my change because chemo destroyed the nerves in my feet and fingers.
The many times I forget to turn down the gas because my short time memory is destroyed. The days I cry because the pills I must swallow cause infections in all my muscles.
The days I can't go buy a bread because I'm so tired that this looks like an expedition to the moon.
I only count the "good" days I have left

I hope your "good" days keep coming. Here's a to sit on your shoulder
God Bless,
Nancy

 

[JennMouse32]

sorry to disagree with ppl, but most kids on the buses ive been on have been too jumpity to want to seat down and their parents let them jump around the bus..​

 

[brergnat]

I haven't even read most of the replies on this thread, but I feel a strong need to chime in with my own opinion on this issue (at large).

You should never get on a bus EXPECTING to have a seat. Period. Not just at Disneyworld, but anywhere. Mass transit buses are made for both sitting AND standing. If you or someone in your party cannot stand, then you should wait for the NEXT BUS, and be first in line so you can be assured you have a seat.

There is way too much "me first...I get what I want" type attitude in this COUNTRY. Yes, I said that. I think Americans as a whole are lazy and full of an entitlement attitude. And, I'm an American. It's shameful.

There is no reason to feel that people are being "rude" or "mean" if they see you struggling and don't get up so YOU can sit. Why are you better than those sitting? What makes you more deserving of that seat? Because you have kids? Because you CHOSE to take your two young kids to WDW by yourself and now you realize it's harder than you thought it would be? Because YOU wore the wrong shoes that day and your feet are killing you? Because you are a woman? Or elderly?

Please.

Take responsibility for yourself. Take responsibility for your children. If it will be a hardship to stand on a bus occasionally at WDW, rent a car. Give your children more credit. They are probably capable of standing on a bus. Some of them actually ENJOY that, as they are typically never allowed to do such a thing.

Enough whining already!

 

[Disneyadore]

You are perfectly justified in defining your own issues. Others are not any of your business. I am sorry you have so many, though. That must be difficult.

Well acutely I'm not judging others and certainly not justifying my issues.
I don't use or need a GAC,handicapped card or special treatment.

I guess it's a cultural thing. Complaining,moaning and feeling pity for ourselves is not done in my part of the world.
Not to worry I can take care of my own issues very well.

 

[Nancy F]

sorry to disagree with ppl, but most kids on the buses ive been on have been too jumpity to want to seat down and their parents let them jump around the bus..​

Is when people let their kids run around in restaurants. We were at The Brown Derby a couple years ago and the couple across from us had both their kids sitting under the table. They were feeding them by hand. Like they were puppies. And the noise they were making!!! Bugged the you know what out of everyone. At one point they tripped a waiter who dropped the empty dish he was carrying. And the parents didn't seem to mind at all. And believe it or not the next couple that sat there let their daughter sit under the table too. I thought I was on one of those punked shows. LOL

Nancy

 

[Disneyadore]

I hope your "good" days keep coming. Here's a to sit on your shoulder
God Bless,
Nancy

Thanks

 

[playswithstars]

I have not read this entire thread, but I posted about this last year when I went solo with my 19 month and 9 year old and stayed at AS Sports. No one got up a single time, and when people saw me struggling to hold a baby, a bag and try to open the stroller, they just stared. I have to be honest, it really left a bad taste in my mouth.

Why exactly did you get on a standing room only bus if you couldn't/didn't want to stand and wanted to sit? You should have waited for the next bus then. You shouldn't expect people to take the responsibility for you. Or be surprised that you have to stand when you willingly got onto a standing room only bus.

 

[SueM in MN]

As far as the buses are concerned, some city transportation systems have buses where the lift or ramp is at the front door. People using wheelchairs and ECVs can wait in the line with everyone else and load when they get to the front door because the wheelchair accessible seats are at the front and would not be filled until the bus was full.
If WDW switched their whole bus fleet to those types of buses, people with wheelchairs and ECVs could wait in line until they reached the front door.

That's not how it is though, and unless they switch to those buses, there is no easy way to load wheelchairs and ECVs on the bus without doing it before other guests have boarded.

Sorry Sue but all this so called freedom for the disabled just puts those who really need it in "jail" created by those who misuse the same system.

If a note was enough to stop this why not? I can't Imagen that disabled or there parents prefer all the snarky comment,dirty looks,or whatever people use to make the disabled feel uncomfortable.
I strongly believe that is even not the real disabled they they try to hurt but the fact that so many cheaters,lairs and lazy persons misuse the system is the real pain.

I sounds to me that you think I am defending the system.
I am explaining the system, not saying I think it is perfect.
It is not MY rule that in the US, no proof is needed for a disability. It is the law; in most cases, it's common sense. My DD can't walk, she can bring her wheelchair into stores without having to prove she can't walk.
In most cases, what a wheelchair gets someone in WDW is a line that is wheelchair accessible (often the same line that everyone else is waiting in).
That's all I am expecting of the park.
It's not special treatment to expect that places that have stairs also have ramps so that my DD's wheelchair can come in.
It's not special treatment to expect that sidewalks have ramp cuts to get on and off the sidewalk.
It's not special treatment to expect shows have a place where a wheelchair can be parked so someone who can't get out of the wheelchair can enjoy the show with the other guests.

THE PROBLEM comes with people who think that there is much more than that. There are many people who expect ALL people with disabilities get the treatment that you gave example earlier of a child who had a separate special meeting with Mickey. Your comment was that children who get that kind of treatment in DL Paris have life threatening illnesses or a short time to live. My comment was that in the US that would be the case too - that is not the expected or usual treatment in the US for anyone with a disability; it's reserved the same as in DL Paris.

A note would not be enough to stop the comments - who would I show it to - the people who are making comments? They are the same people who are looking at you and thinking "drunk".
And, at the same time, you apparently are looking at people and thinking

cheaters,lairs and lazy persons.

I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but several of your posts have talked about many people fitting in the cheaters, liars and lazy person category.

About Paris I can be short. There park ,there rules and obviously they have more sucses filtering out those who really need care and compassion.
I know they have special discount but again only if you can provide proof that you are disabled.

One of the reasons that there may be less people with disabilities coming to DL Paris is that there are few attractions that someone is able to go on with a wheelchair. That may have been interpreted by some as me saying that DL Paris was backward - all I was trying to say was that someone using a wheelchair or ECV at DL Paris is literally not able to get into the attraction. The line is not accessible. It's not moaning or asking for pity to say that.
If a wheelchair can't fit into the line or someone needs to be able to walk to board a ride car, it's a fact.

The Studio at DL Paris is newer and is much more accessible. In most cases, there is no special handling needed because the person with a wheelchair or ECV can use the same queue and entrance as anyone else would.

Would it change the attitude if Disney did give discounts for those that provided a note? ( Not your personnel attitude but in the great sheme)

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part.
I think in many ways discounts (even with some type of government issued card as proof) would make things even worse. That would make even more comments about how people with disabilities are getting privileges.

I don't expect pity and am not complaining or moaning (which I guess you may be interpreting what I have written as).

 

[maxiesmom]

You see there are those who have their own idea of what disabled means. If they see someone who does fit their idea of disabled, then they will think they are faking.

Not to mention how easy it would be to fake a note.

If you don't like the way Disney handles the busses, then don't use them. That seems a simple enough solution to me. There is no way possible that Disney could run the busses that would make everyone happy. Take it in for what it is, and decide if it works for you. If it doesn't, make other plans for your transportation.

 

[bavaria]

One of the reasons that there may be less people with disabilities coming to DL Paris is that there are few attractions that someone is able to go on with a wheelchair. That may have been interpreted by some as me saying that DL Paris was backward - all I was trying to say was that someone using a wheelchair or ECV at DL Paris is literally not able to get into the attraction. The line is not accessible. It's not moaning or asking for pity to say that.

Respectfully, we don't doubt that you are an expert when it comes to WDW and disabilities. However every country and culture handles things differently. There are fewer people in wheelchairs in DLRP in large part because many people opt not to use them, when people with similar situations may in fact choose to rent a wheelchair or ECV at WDW. And as someone else pointed out, DLRP is a much 'easier' situation as much can be done as a day park, has less ground to cover, and is not as warm for most of the year.

Several of us have been to DLRP multiple times, some hundreds of times. We have lived and worked in Europe under not only local law but EU regulations. More importantly, we know that there is a difference in the psyche, which is what we have tried to explain.

The number of guests using wheelchairs has in fact increased over the past five years or so at the parks, due to a combination of factors.

What I think (not to speak for another poster) Disneyadore is trying to explain is that the overall number of guests using wheelchairs is lower in part due to the differences in culture. I don't know how else we can explain it, but I understand the frustration.

I have recently been to HKDL a few times, and can make observations about things like the wheelchair exclusive busses they run, but I don't think that I am honestly fit to make more than generalizations because I haven't spent enough time in Hong Kong to really understand the laws, the regulations, the health care system, and the nature of the people.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Oh I guess I misunderstood your point when you said you enjoyed the lack of them? so sorry.

It certainly is an interesting way to pass the time...I guess theres no harm as long there is no judging said cultural differences. Just curious how you teach you children not to stereotype people though. And that is an honest question.. not being snarky.

My point was that it is refreshing to get to see the park in all its beauty without doznes of strollers parked in front of many attractions and it is more pleasant to walk around without so many wheeled devices to navigate. I think I even said I have no malice at all towards those in EVCs and I guess I did not think anything I said indicated I would have it toward strollers either. It was just a nice change of pace when we were at DLP.

We occasioanlly do judge cultural differences to be honest. I will tell my kids that I do not agree with cultures that give all power to the men and deny education and rights to women (generally come up when we see someone in a full burka and we do also talk about not every woman who wears one is forced to some do choose that and then it is okay). But for the most part we simply enjoy observing and learning. We also get a kick out of noticing when safety cues are given from the stage (like when and how the male bird signals that it is safe to start the lift in Festival of the lion King). We just really like to be observant and notice the world around us in this kind of way.

As to how I teach my kids not to stereotype, I really fail to see how noticing that cultures vary leads to stereotyping I'll answer your question anyway though. For starters we like to look at what seems to be the cultural norm--which teaches them that not every culture is the same as their own nor to be judged by our standards. They are less likely to catergorize someone as rude or weird than many other children are becuase they understand that what may be considered rude/weird in our country may be acceptable or even desireable in another. Secondly, we look at NORMS but we do not ever say or assume that anyone in any particular culture is the same. Gracious--we ourselves are pretty far outside the US norms on a lot of things so they know that first hand. My parents live in another counrty (Mexico) so they visit there often and see how things are different and know many people there who are all different from one another. At this point we also live in an entirely different culture (Germany). The kids attend a public German school. This particular school is designed to be excellent for immigrants comming into the culture with a strong program to help the kids learn the language so along with the aproximately 50% of the student body that is German there are another 83 countries represented at the school this year. At DD's birthday party we had girls from Germany, USA, Switzerland, Iran and Gambia. Becuase DD has been taught to observe and respect cultural differences it occured to her that some of her freinds would have dietary restrcitions that she should ask about and consider in planning what to serve for her party, etc). DS had two each from Germany, and Russia plus one from the US and one from Brazil. They actually know, and are friends with, a diverse group of people and see first hand how every one is an individual and also how everyone is affected somewhat based on the norms of their home society, religion, etc.

I find it interesting when people claim that we are 'backwards' or somehow inferior because we have different rules.

Look at photos from DL and WDW of thirty years ago, and there were few strollers, and if there were any they had small children in those strollers. Now that has changed considerably. I often post a photo of DLRP on a peak day, peak season, outside the most popular ride, and it has two strollers in stroller parking.

Somehow we are considered backwards here for encouraging our children to walk. I remember being in pain as a child and I wasn't pandered to. If I truly couldn't walk anymore my parents took a rest, or we cut the day short if absolutely necessary.

The norm here seems to be that children ride in strollers - to the parks, to the grocery store, etc. That isn't the norm in the rest of the world.

But that also doesn't mean that we are abusive to our children. We are raising healthy, strong, independent children, and I for one am not ashamed of that.

And I also believe based on my years of travel that the vast majority of Americans have differing opinions than people on this website. If they do go to a Disney park, they are usually not so fanatical as to spend the entire day from early AM to late PM in the park, like many people here do.

This website really isn't a reflection of greater society; it is just a small cross section of a small group of people with some unusual tastes and unusual habits.

I hope my comment did not come across as thinking Europe is "backwards" in this aspect. I honestly think it is much healthier.

I noted in my earlier post on this thread how this whole problem could be solved with a no stand rule.

My family and I were discussing this over dinner last night. We thought of dozens of rides that were less of a risk than standing on a bus going 50mph.


Maybe if we voiced all these complaints to Disney, something could be done.

Yet again: standing on public transportation is the norm the world over. Disney is in no way an exception in this regard. If standing on the busses were prohibited you would decrease each bus capacity by nearly 2/3 which would make everyone's wait times much loner and also probaly require the purchase of more busses and hiring more drivers, etc which would raise ticket prices.