vent about WDW bus passengers

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Good grief. So those who need assistance are just whiners. Got it. My mom is one tough cookie who has now been through 9 years of chemotherapy. She should just suck it up, I guess.

 

[bavaria]

I hope my comment did not come across as thinking Europe is "backwards" in this aspect. I honestly think it is much healthier.

Not at all. In fact, you have shown that you and your family have discovered that people and cultures are different, even if we may look similar and speak a common language.

That means that we cannot take one template and apply it to another country and simply expect it to work in the same fashion.

'Different' doesn't mean 'bad' but often people seem to equate the two here.

Very early on in this thread we detoured into this territory because someone asked about standing on the bus in other countries. Standing is the norm the world over, but different cultures may react differently to who stands and who sits, just as different people do here, even though most are from the same country.

 

[DISNEYFOS]

'Different' doesn't mean 'bad' but often people seem to equate the two here.

Very early on in this thread we detoured into this territory because someone asked about standing on the bus in other countries. Standing is the norm the world over, but different cultures may react differently to who stands and who sits, just as different people do here, even though most are from the same country.

No offense..but it seems you are the only ones comparing how Europe compares with America. Your posts consistently seem to state Americans do this, Americans feel this. Not sure if you realize you do that ;-)

I am an American and I don't feel different means bad..I also feel that there are many similarities among people from different countries/cultures. There are people with disabilities all over the world. The US has some strict laws regarding accessibility.. other countries have similar laws..some don't..I haven't done a lot of research in the area..because Luckily it doesn't effect my family.

I don't think this is a cultural thing. I think its a personal thing..some people feel they deserve to sit others don't feel its a big deal to get up. I think its a human thing..no need to bring anything else into it. I personally wouldn't judge anyone for not getting up..I don't know what their personal circumstance is in order to judge. I've stated before, I think its common courtesy to help someone in need, so I will do that. I will teach my family to do that. I know many people from all walks of life that feel the same way...

 

[Disneyadore]

As far as the buses are concerned, some city transportation systems have buses where the lift or ramp is at the front door. People using wheelchairs and ECVs can wait in the line with everyone else and load when they get to the front door because the wheelchair accessible seats are at the front and would not be filled until the bus was full.
If WDW switched their whole bus fleet to those types of buses, people with wheelchairs and ECVs could wait in line until they reached the front door.

That's not how it is though, and unless they switch to those buses, there is no easy way to load wheelchairs and ECVs on the bus without doing it before other guests have boarded.

I sounds to me that you think I am defending the system.
I am explaining the system, not saying I think it is perfect.
It is not MY rule that in the US, no proof is needed for a disability. It is the law; in most cases, it's common sense. My DD can't walk, she can bring her wheelchair into stores without having to prove she can't walk.
In most cases, what a wheelchair gets someone in WDW is a line that is wheelchair accessible (often the same line that everyone else is waiting in).
That's all I am expecting of the park.
It's not special treatment to expect that places that have stairs also have ramps so that my DD's wheelchair can come in.
It's not special treatment to expect that sidewalks have ramp cuts to get on and off the sidewalk.
It's not special treatment to expect shows have a place where a wheelchair can be parked so someone who can't get out of the wheelchair can enjoy the show with the other guests.

THE PROBLEM comes with people who think that there is much more than that. There are many people who expect ALL people with disabilities get the treatment that you gave example earlier of a child who had a separate special meeting with Mickey. Your comment was that children who get that kind of treatment in DL Paris have life threatening illnesses or a short time to live. My comment was that in the US that would be the case too - that is not the expected or usual treatment in the US for anyone with a disability; it's reserved the same as in DL Paris.

A note would not be enough to stop the comments - who would I show it to - the people who are making comments? They are the same people who are looking at you and thinking "drunk".
And, at the same time, you apparently are looking at people and thinking

I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but several of your posts have talked about many people fitting in the cheaters, liars and lazy person category.

One of the reasons that there may be less people with disabilities coming to DL Paris is that there are few attractions that someone is able to go on with a wheelchair. That may have been interpreted by some as me saying that DL Paris was backward - all I was trying to say was that someone using a wheelchair or ECV at DL Paris is literally not able to get into the attraction. The line is not accessible. It's not moaning or asking for pity to say that.
If a wheelchair can't fit into the line or someone needs to be able to walk to board a ride car, it's a fact.

The Studio at DL Paris is newer and is much more accessible. In most cases, there is no special handling needed because the person with a wheelchair or ECV can use the same queue and entrance as anyone else would.

Disney Paris has or is testing the system were disabled or those that need help have no waiting time at all. They give you a time you can return and than you and your party get immigrate access. Not sure how this test turned out.
As for the bolted part maybe you should read the board even more than I do It's sad but there are so many questions and suggestions even here how to milk this system. Mostly they start with:"a friend told me or I heard in the supermarket......

As for the word "attitude" I used it was in no way attacking or disrespectful towards you.
In my country it has a whole different load. Cultural differences in languages are even harder to bring across on paper.

 

[bavaria]

No offense..but it seems you are the only ones comparing how Europe compares with America. Your posts consistently seem to state Americans do this, Americans feel this. Not sure if you realize you do that ;-)

I am an American and I don't feel different means bad..I also feel that there are many similarities among people from different countries/cultures. There are people with disabilities all over the world. The US has some strict laws regarding accessibility.. other countries have similar laws..some don't..I haven't done a lot of research in the area..because Luckily it doesn't effect my family.

I don't think this is a cultural thing. I think its a personal thing..some people feel they deserve to sit others don't feel its a big deal to get up. I think its a human thing..no need to bring anything else into it. I personally wouldn't judge anyone for not getting up..I don't know what their personal circumstance is in order to judge. I've stated before, I think its common courtesy to help someone in need, so I will do that. I will teach my family to do that. I know many people from all walks of life that feel the same way...

I will admit that I finally let this site get to me last year; the tone here really changed in the last year, perhaps because we lost some wonderful posters, perhaps due to the economy. (There is some real ugliness here sometimes - a few threads on the CB at the moment are frankly just outrageous, and people from various countries are at least speaking up in those.)

For me personally I've chosen not to participate as much. I've also chosen to post more on flyertalk.com because the membership is more diverse, and more open to differing opinions. It's hard not to feel welcome after a decade of being part of a community. And I know that I'm not the only one who feels that way, sadly.

But my comments about 'different' doesn't equate to 'bad' is to try and remind myself of that as well as others.

I honestly believe that people are inherently good. I also believe that sometimes they let their own wants and desires push to the forefront. These threads may do some good if they remind people to consider things from a different angle.

And I also believe (as I said earlier) that these arguments will never have a 'winner'. There IS no one absolute right answer to this debate, or to the family seating on airplanes, or to any of the many other topics which go round and round and round. It is why I stopped long ago for the most part posting on threads which are subjective rather than objective in nature.

The reality too is that the 'tone' of these threads is very different depending on the audience. The outcome for instance varies if posted on the Family Board vs another board because the make up of the audience is different.

And as to the 'cultural' comment, yes, I do believe that Disneyadore is correct in pointing that out. The questions were raised by other posters, and some of us answered. I also understand the frustration of not being able to express oneself in a way that is understood - something that I think that everyone can relate to.

 

[Disneyadore]

Yet again: standing on public transportation is the norm the world over. Disney is in no way an exception in this regard. If standing on the busses were prohibited you would decrease each bus capacity by nearly 2/3 which would make everyone's wait times much loner and also probaly require the purchase of more busses and hiring more drivers, etc which would raise ticket prices.

As long as this in not going to be the norm in Disney transportation I think we got nothing to complain about.

 

[Disneyadore]

No offense..but it seems you are the only ones comparing how Europe compares with America. Your posts consistently seem to state Americans do this, Americans feel this. Not sure if you realize you do that ;-)

I am an American and I don't feel different means bad..I also feel that there are many similarities among people from different countries/cultures.

May I respectfully remind you of the hundreds perhaps thousands of comments you can read here on the DIS about those perver....... from Europe that dare to wear Speedo's in the US.
That is a cultural difference and even a "law" in some parts of Europe. There are parts of Europe you only can use a public swimming pool wearing a Speedo because other swimming clothes are costing to much water by leaving the pool.
As for feeling " bad" I feel very uncomfortable speaking to an elderly person, a CM, the lady behind the counter in a store, the person that carries my groceries to our car or the random strangers that I have on the other side of the phone.
I tell them thank "you".
The word "you" makes me curl up my toes because this word is very disrespectful to others than very close relatives in my country. Pronouncing my aunts,uncles or grandparents "you" is so
I even don't know if the States have a third form to speak to others. I know cultural differences.

 

[Halbleib1]

We've given up our seats for many people over the years but can't think of a time we did it for children only (mine normally sit on my lap if it's a full bus).

That is what we do or we have our son sit on the floor if there is room or he stands in front of one of us holding onto the metal poles. If we can avoid it however we will wait for the next bus so that there is a seat. Did this many times esp. at park closing even if it meant getting back to the room an hour or more later. We have also gone to a different area on property to get a less crowded bus if possible-meaning walked to a nearby resort or took a less crowded bus to another resort ultimately ending up at Downtown Disney and transfering over. In that case sorry but unless it is an elderly person or someone that I can see needs a seat I am not getting up.

 

[Sammie]

I haven't read through all the pages but have a good idea of how it was going.

No one is forced to stand on any Disney bus, if you want a seat simply wait for the next bus and get one.

If your child or yourself is so tired that waiting at the bus stop for the next bus is something you did not wish to do, simply leave the park earlier when you are less tired, your child is less tired and the bus is not as full.

You really do have the control of the situation. If you do not choose to exercise that control then you must suffer the consequences.

 

[NHdisneylover]

As long as this in not going to be the norm in Disney transportation I think we got nothing to complain about.

I do admit I often read the bus posts thinking about the local busses we took to my parents' house in a small Mexican village that they lived in when the kids were little. It was often standing room only; the bus was old and rickety--sometimes you could see the street through rust holes in the floor, we swayed rather precariously on tight corners near steep edges down to the ocean and bumped hard on cobblestones streets. It was not at all uncommon for someone to board carrying a basket with a couple of chickens in it or have a dog or goat on a leash. If we were lucky someone boarded with a guitar (this is the one person that people ALWAYS offered a seat to!) and played as we rode. I stood on those with babies/toddlers in my arms and loved almost every minute of it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The perfect solution to this is to not allow anyone to stand. I know this is a dream, but everytime I ride the bus I think of the incredible risk Disney is taking with all the standing people, as well as the unbuckled seated.

Just imagine the tragedy if there was crash? It's sad that it would take something like that to make better safety policies.

Hundreds, if not thousands, of passengers, stand on public transportation buses daily; thousands more sit unbelted. Disney is not taking any incredible risk. Guests who feel they are - that the Guest themselves are in danger in either situation - would be best served by either renting a vehicle or by using cabs for all transportation, period. NO standing. EVER.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I always wonder on these "discussions" why isn't anyone mad at who everyone should be mad at? That would be Disney for not having enough buses running at closing and opening to handle the amount of paying customers they have.

Disney HAS enough buses - they just can't all logisitcally be in one place (the park) at one time. Some have to be on the road going from the park to the resort; one or two have to be at the resort dropping off; some have to be back on the road on their way back to the park to pick up more Guests. The problem is, everybody expects instant gratification. They're willing to wait three hours for Toy Story Midway Mania, but not thirty minutes to get a seat on a bus.

 

[tttessa]

Hundreds, if not thousands, of passengers, stand on public transportation buses daily; thousands more sit unbelted. Disney is not taking any incredible risk. Guests who feel they are - that the Guest themselves are in danger in either situation - would be best served by either renting a vehicle or by using cabs for all transportation, period. NO standing. EVER.

Hi,
we hire a car for our own safety. Cars have a legal requirement (in UK anyhow) that every passenger wears a seatbelt, kids are required to be strapped into a car seat or booster, because it saves lives and prevents injuries - no other reason.

OK buses generally travel more slowly, but I still don't feel safe standing- or sitting for that matter - with someone else's bag bashing in my face as they hold on round corners- or people falling into me bumping their heads into my face (the reason we go by car!).

Tessa

 

[kaytieeldr]

But by the same token, if you were in labour and did not take responsiblity for yourself, is it really fair to expect others to do what you yourself will not do?

Not sure what is meant here by not taking responsibility for yourself. I simply meant that I was surprised that seeing a pregnant woman in obvious discomfort (and I'm sure not everyone noticed, but surely some had) wouldn't have led to someone offering their seat.

I think she means something like going to the hostess (or manager) and saying, "Excuse me, is it possible for you to bring out an empty chair for me? I REALLY need to sit right now".

And if you didn't want to sit because your labor pains were in your back, I guess I'm extremely why it mattered if anybody noticed at any point that you were in pain and offered you a seat?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Hi,
we hire a car for our own safety. Cars have a legal requirement (in UK anyhow) that every passenger wears a seatbelt, kids are required to be strapped into a car seat or booster, because it saves lives and prevents injuries - no other reason.

OK buses generally travel more slowly, but I still don't feel safe standing- or sitting for that matter - with someone else's bag bashing in my face as they hold on round corners- or people falling into me bumping their heads into my face (the reason we go by car!).

Tessa

You are handling the situation exactly as I think you shouldIf you are not comfortable, or do not feel safe in the bus then renting a car is a great option. In most stated of the US you are legally required to wear a seat belt as well (and in all states children are required to be properly restrained). Just as busses in in the UK have different rules (no seat belts, standing permitted) the same is true in the US. I totally understand that some people do not feel safe under typical public transportation safety rules (thouh statistically these rules exist becuase the bigger busses are so much safe in general than smaller cars) and choosing not to take a bus for that reason. I jsut don't understand those posters who feel Disney is somehow doingsomehting worng by providing public transit in the way it is intended and used throughout the world becuase they are uncomfortable with it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

another person who rents a car to avoid exactly this scenario.

I guess I have a different view of what is fun on vacation. For me... being so dog-tired that I can't even stay awake on a bus isn't fun.

Frankly, this has me more concerned than any minimal potential for injury to a standee on a public transit bus. You can't stay awake even standing on such a bus, but you'll drive? That's safer?

I stood until almost half way back when finally a man asked his son to stand so that I could sit. I guess he saw how tired my arms were getting. How about that for manners, the man would not even stand he wanted his son around 10 or 11 to stand.

How about that? After all the talk here about special snowflakes, and how so many of us were taught to respect our elders, and how kids eight (even younger) and above are PERFECTLY capable of standing on a moving bus... what in the WORLD is the issue with a father telling his preteen son to stand up and allow a woman to sit? Did you want him to teach by example? Why? Did you need two seats? No, right? So if the dad stood, the son would have remained seated - and learned, what exactly?

 

[smidgy]

How about that? After all the talk here about special snowflakes, and how so many of us were taught to respect our elders, and how kids eight (even younger) and above are PERFECTLY capable of standing on a moving bus... what in the WORLD is the issue with a father telling his preteen son to stand up and allow a woman to sit? Did you want him to teach by example? Why? Did you need two seats? No, right? So if the dad stood, the son would have remained seated - and learned, what exactly?

 

[smidgy]

I, too , am glad the person that is so "dog tired" they can't stay awake on a bus is NOT driving!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't deny that ecv users have rights, but 3 rolled up after we were in line waiting and got to board first with their parties, and there was at least 20 people with them combined.Didn't leave much room for anyone else.

Only a very few Disney buses accommodate three ECVs/wheelchairs; most only take two. Any combination of three that need to be tied down (noting that some wheelchairs can be folded and the rider transfer to a single seat) actually take up a total of TWELVE seats/spaces - three each for the ECV, and one each for its occupant, since it's horribly unsafe to remain on the ECV, even strapped in, due to its instability and high center of gravity.

So, yeah, in that instance, even the official-sized ECV/wheelchair party (that Guest plus up to five additional Guests) would take up 27 seats.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I do 100% agree about the ECV/wheelchair boarding. I do not understand why it is a automatic first boarding pass I thought the goal was EQUAL access/EQUAL opportunity. If so they should wait just like the rest of us.

SIMPLE logistics (plus, recently, somebody posted - Florida law?). Either allow the ECV/wheechair to board first, when the bus is empty, with space to maneuver into the tiedown area - and allow a reasonable number of party members to accompany them (and the allowed five SHOULD be enforced) - or force the ECV/wheelchair user to board in turn - when the bus is partly to mostly full, necessitating the Guests occupying the tie-down seats and the additional seating the wheeled-Guest needs to move, and risk running over feet and into ankles in an effort to navigate the wheels into the tie-down spots... very possibly forcing the ECV/wheelchair Guest to wait for additional buses involuntarily. And that doesn't even account for inoperative/"fussy" lifts on the older buses.

Which makes more sense to you