Spoke to principal- I'm not a happy camper-- update post 155

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It doesnt matter where it came from or who answers it. What they speak of is the truth. I agree to the article as that is exactly what I have always thought and believed in. IMHO, you teachers need to open your eyeballs and realize theres more then 1 way to receive a proper education. My sister is to a teacher for a public school. But at least she can admit and agree that home schooling is the way to go!
I don't think that across the board home schooling is better. Pesonally, I feel, especially in the older grades, that my children will learn more from someone who was educated to be a teacher. In just the small amount of people that I know of that home school their children (3), 2 out of the 3 shouldn't be home schooling them. One is a mother that doesn't even have a high school diploma, and her child is at least two grades behind what he should be. The 2nd mother, tried to work a 40 hour week at a day care, and teach her two children while she taught her pre school class. The only reason she home schooled is b/c the school asked that both of her children get assessed for ADHD and she refused. Also, the mother's aunt is the third person I know that homeschools her children and she thought it was cool. The third was educated as a teacher, and only stopped teaching to stay at home with her children and teach them at home through a religous based program. To me just b/c you are a parent doesn't mean you would make a good teacher for that child. For those that can and do, your children are very lucky.
 
Wow thats a very interesting way of learning. What a better way to learn about the culture and histroy then talking to people who are from those countries. Even text books cant do that! Your giving me ideas. :rotfl: When we have kids, I wanna home school them. What a better way to teach then to take a "field trip" to Disney and let them learn there. Another good thing about learning a subject in Disney is science. Between future world, animal kingdom and the living seas, you could learn a lot. History can even be covered between world showcase, especially in American Adventure and the Hall of Presidents in MK. All you need is Math and Im sure theres even something in Disney that could teach Math. Not sure but Im sure theres something.

Please, please tell me all those smilies mean that you're joking.

I'm not anti-homeschooling and think there are plenty of kids out there getting an excellent education that way. But, just like I believe public education isn't right for all kids, I believe homeschooling isn't right for all parents. In fact, I'm starting to believe that the easier someone thinks homeschooling will be, the less competent they are to take on the task.

I can understand the new principal freaking out a little. He's new, there's a lot of pressure to perform. There are a lot of things that go into funding and success of a school and a school system. In Virginia, if the child is not physically in the classroom the first two weeks of school, the school system doesn't receive funding for that child from the state for the year. Average Daily Membership is calculated the first two weeks of school and the state funds the school for the year based on that number. The less money from the state, the more money needed from the locality to meet mandates.

Agree with NCLB or not, it's there. A school can fail to meet AYP because of absences. If a school doesn't make AYP two years in a row, the parents can choose to send their children to any other county school--can you imagine the costs to the taxpayers to bus these kids all over the place? Just one example of how these "details" come back to our pocketbooks.

Hopefully the situation can be worked out, but I don't blame the administrator's initial reaction. Not making AYP is a huge deal with longterm consequences for the school system, the taxpayers, the parents and the children.
 
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OP

Lev Vygotsky - The Zone of Proximal Development
The concept of the zone of proximal development was originally developed by Vygotsky to argue against the use of standardized tests as a means to gauge students' intelligence. Vygotsky argued that rather than examining what a student knows to determine intelligence, it is better to examine their ability to solve problems independently and their ability to solve problems with the assistance of an adult. :goodvibes

Applied knowledge....
We give our kiddos far less credit then they deserve.

I'm very much a social constructivist--I just didn't realize how much my teaching philosophy was driven by Vygotsky until I studied him during my graduate work.

One theory amoung many!!!! Lots of psychologists think standardized tests are valid!!!

"psychological community celebrates the 100th anniversary of one of the most original, prolific, and influential psychologists of the 20th century - Lev S. Vygotsky"

http://www.bgcenter.com/Vygotsky_Appr.htm

You may want to read into Vygotsky & social constructivism. While some embrace it more than others, there are few that don't acknowledge the validity of his work.

http://www.newfoundations.com/GALLERY/Vygotsky.html

"Vygotsky's stresses the importance of looking at each child as an individual who learns distinctively. "
 
Unless I am misunderstanding, I dont get the rational about the ISTEP. It is at the beginning of the school year and tests what you learned the previous year. If you fail it you have to go to summer school, next summer. This makes no sense to me. Shouldn't it be given at the end of the year and you go to summer school THAT summer. If you are already behind, witing til next summer doesn't seem very proactive
 

Unless I am misunderstanding, I dont get the rational about the ISTEP. It is at the beginning of the school year and tests what you learned the previous year. If you fail it you have to go to summer school, next summer. This makes no sense to me. Shouldn't it be given at the end of the year and you go to summer school THAT summer. If you are already behind, witing til next summer doesn't seem very proactive

Exactly. Sounds like a threat from the principal. Typically, standardized test scores are compared to end of the year scores to show progress. The end of the school year is when you should assess if summer school is necessary. During the school year, some schools offer afterschool programs for kids that need help or suggest private tutoring when necessary.
 
I'm a firm believer that if someone is going to homeschool, they should be proficient in skills such as writing, spelling and grammar.
 
Agree with NCLB or not, it's there. A school can fail to meet AYP because of absences. If a school doesn't make AYP two years in a row, the parents can choose to send their children to any other county school--can you imagine the costs to the taxpayers to bus these kids all over the place? Just one example of how these "details" come back to our pocketbooks.

Hopefully the situation can be worked out, but I don't blame the administrator's initial reaction. Not making AYP is a huge deal with longterm consequences for the school system, the taxpayers, the parents and the children.

We are two years away from having to fire all the teachers and administrators in our elementary school - this will happen my daughter's last year in the school. There is probably no stopping it at this point.

My kids are doing great. In fact, the vast majority of kids are doing great. The schools scores are above the state average. However, certain segments of the school population (pretty much cut by socio economic class) have not shown AYP. There is nothing I can do as a parent to get some other parent to get their kid to do their homework, or read in the evenings, or even show up at school (a major issue in our school among these kids). But in two years, my daughter will feel the pain. And they already do as school resources are diverted to trying to make the test results for a small subset of the kids in the school (we are being closed over 40 kids - the school has 600).

(We are hoping NCLB gets overturned by a new administration - its the stupidest piece of legislation ever).
 
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I'm a firm believer that if someone is going to homeschool, they should be proficient in skills such as writing, spelling and grammar.

I've never supported competency tests for the homeschooling parent and still don't, but I'm getting there.
 
I'm a firm believer that if someone is going to homeschool, they should be proficient in skills such as writing, spelling and grammar.

I've never supported competency tests for the homeschooling parent and still don't, but I'm getting there.

Have you not read the posts from the public school teachers on this thread? Grammar and spelling skills are lacking on both sides. I think that people are just much more relaxed in those areas when writing in a message board setting.
 
Have you not read the posts from the public school teachers on this thread? Grammar and spelling skills are lacking on both sides. I think that people are just much more relaxed in those areas when writing in a message board setting.

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What is WikiAnswers? Isn't that just someone writing their answer on the internet? It doesn't even give the author of the "answer" :confused3 :confused3



Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica
By Daniel Terdiman
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Wikipedia is about as good a source of accurate information as Britannica, the venerable standard-bearer of facts about the world around us, according to a study published this week in the journal Nature.
Over the last couple of weeks, Wikipedia, the free, open-access encyclopedia, has taken a great deal of flak in the press for problems related to the credibility of its authors and its general accountability.

In particular, Wikipedia has taken hits for its inclusion, for four months, of an anonymously written article linking former journalist John Seigenthaler to the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and John F. Kennedy. At the same time, the blogosphere was buzzing for several days about podcasting pioneer Adam Curry's being accused of anonymously deleting references to others' seminal work on the technology.

Related story
Growing pains for Wikipedia
After two scandals in one week, Wikipedia's founder decides to make a change to the anyone-can-contribute encyclopedia.In response to situations like these and others in its history, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales has always maintained that the service and its community are built around a self-policing and self-cleaning nature that is supposed to ensure its articles are accurate.

Still, many critics have tried to downplay its role as a source of valid information and have often pointed to the Encyclopedia Britannica as an example of an accurate reference.

For its study, Nature chose articles from both sites in a wide range of topics and sent them to what it called "relevant" field experts for peer review. The experts then compared the competing articles--one from each site on a given topic--side by side, but were not told which article came from which site. Nature got back 42 usable reviews from its field of experts.

In the end, the journal found just eight serious errors, such as general misunderstandings of vital concepts, in the articles. Of those, four came from each site. They did, however, discover a series of factual errors, omissions or misleading statements. All told, Wikipedia had 162 such problems, while Britannica had 123.

That averages out to 2.92 mistakes per article for Britannica and 3.86 for Wikipedia.

"An expert-led investigation carried out by Nature--the first to use peer review to compare Wikipedia and Britannica's coverage of science," the journal wrote, "suggests that such high-profile examples (like the Seigenthaler and Curry situations) are the exception rather than the rule."

And to Wales, while Britannica came out looking a little bit more accurate than Wikipedia, the Nature study was validation of his service's fundamental structure.

"I was very pleased, just to see that (the study) was reasonably favorable," Wales told CNET News.com. "I think it provides, for us, a great counterpoint to the press coverage we've gotten recently, because it puts the focus on the broader quality and not just one article."

He also acknowledged that the error rate for each encyclopedia was not insignificant, and added that he thinks such numbers demonstrate that broad review of encyclopedia articles is needed.

He also said that the results belie the notion that Britannica is infallible.

"I have very great respect for Britannica," Wales said. But "I think there is a general view among a lot of people that it has no errors, like, 'I read it in Britannica, it must be true.' It's good that people see that there are a lot of errors everywhere."

To Britannica officials, however, the Nature results showed that Wikipedia still has a way to go.

"The (Nature) article is saying that Wikipedia has a third more errors" than Britannica, said Jorge Cauz, president of Encyclopedia Britannica.

But Cauz and editor in chief Dale Hoiberg also said they were concerned that Nature had not specified the problems that it had found in Britannica.

"We've asked them a number of questions about the process they used," Hoiberg said. "They said in (their article) that the inaccuracies included errors, omissions and misleading statements. But there's no indication of how many of each. So we're very eager to look at that and explore it because we take it very seriously."
 
Have you not read the posts from the public school teachers on this thread? Grammar and spelling skills are lacking on both sides. I think that people are just much more relaxed in those areas when writing in a message board setting.

Yes, I did. And I hold fast to the belief that if someone is going to hold homeschooling up as a superior alternative to public schooling, then they better hold themselves high up as an example. Otherwise, they can't be taken seriously.

Oh, and I am not pointing to any particular person.
 
In MA, MCAS is given in March, April and May (it's split up between subjects). The thing that irked me as a teacher was the fact that I was supposed to have completed teaching from pre civilization (Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas) through the War of 1812 by mid May. School is still in session another month! So what are we supposed to do in SS for the next month. We also had benchmark assessments to do in math. They had to be completed by April vacation so the middle school could set up their grouping for the next school year before school got out in mid June. We were supposed to have completed all of our units by then so now there's 2 months where we are supposed to fill time.

Politicians need to work in a school for a month or get training in what it's like to be a teacher. NCLB is a waste of teachers times. We end up spending time teaching to a test that is administered before the students should be ready for it.

I left teaching at the end of the 2007 school year as I had had enough. No concern is given for students with special needs and teachers are not listened to. They are the experts not these wealthy businessmen and women who say they know what our kids need. Show some respect for teachers. I've been on both sides of the table.

We won't take out daughter out of school after 4th grade to go on vacation. That's our decision. DD1's birthday is in mid-May and due to testing she will not be able to spend her birthday at Disney. We are taking her out a day early in April for her birthday trip. I'm a firm believer in both education and family time. Don't blame the teachers blame the politicians! The teachers and administrators have to do what they are told so they are under a lot of pressure too.
 
We are two years away from having to fire all the teachers and administrators in our elementary school - this will happen my daughter's last year in the school. There is probably no stopping it at this point.

My kids are doing great. In fact, the vast majority of kids are doing great. The schools scores are above the state average. However, certain segments of the school population (pretty much cut by socio economic class) have not shown AYP. There is nothing I can do as a parent to get some other parent to get their kid to do their homework, or read in the evenings, or even show up at school (a major issue in our school among these kids). But in two years, my daughter will feel the pain. And they already do as school resources are diverted to trying to make the test results for a small subset of the kids in the school (we are being closed over 40 kids - the school has 600).

(We are hoping NCLB gets overturned by a new administration - its the stupidest piece of legislation ever).

The elementary school my kids went to didn't make AYP for the first time ever. I don't know why yet, but I do know we barely missed failing one year due to attendance in one of our subgroups. I really feel for the principal, it was his first year last year.

I could write pages on the dire funding situation of our school system. Our Board of Supervisors has cut funding to the schools over the past 3 years from 69% of the budget to 54% of the budget. We're a DC suburb that continues to grow, yet we received a less than 1% increase over last year's budget.

We are at the point where we can pay for our state mandates and nothing else. They're talking about closing schools and cramming kids in at over 100% capacity to save $800,000. Guess which school they're looking at now? It doesn't matter that the school is 30% subsidized lunches and still has top SOL scores in the county. It didn't make AYP. It's not successful.
 
Exactly. Sounds like a threat from the principal. Typically, standardized test scores are compared to end of the year scores to show progress. The end of the school year is when you should assess if summer school is necessary. During the school year, some schools offer afterschool programs for kids that need help or suggest private tutoring when necessary.

Way back before the debate about homeschooling began :confused3 , I posted a response about ISTEP. It is being moved to the spring, but the kids have to take it twice this year because we have no benchmarks for a spring test.

Wow, this thread got off topic!
 
Way back before the debate about homeschooling began :confused3 , I posted a response about ISTEP. It is being moved to the spring, but the kids have to take it twice this year because we have no benchmarks for a spring test.

Wow, this thread got off topic!

Should we start a thread on standardized testing?

Not sooo OT, It seemed like standardized testing was directly related to WHY the OP was being given such a hard time about WDw trip.

OP said ISTEP testing in September.

In Michigan, we have MEAP testing twice per year which is given in October and spring.
 
Have you not read the posts from the public school teachers on this thread? Grammar and spelling skills are lacking on both sides. I think that people are just much more relaxed in those areas when writing in a message board setting.

I have. And I've received a few classroom newsletters with grammar and and spelling mistakes made by excellent teachers. When I say competence, I'm talking about more than grammar and spelling mistakes.

I believe some children do better when they're homeschooled, but the decision should probably be based on the child. The fact that the parent was picked on in school is absolutely no indicator that the child won't do better in public school than taught at home. If you really are all about what's best for the child, see what's best for the child before making such a monumental choice.
 
Ok, so you didn't directly say that eachers are stupid or lazy, but the insinuation is there. The reason that it upsets me so much to see people trash public school so much is that wether they believe it or not that attitude filters down to their children. No I didn'tthink that this would be a cake walk. I was a biochemist for 5 years before becoming a teacher. It is the hardest thing I have ever done by far and I am PROUD to say that i make a difference in the lives of my students. AS for the examples given, these are students who are taught AT HOME that school is worthless and teachers do not deserve respect. They are a product of the public school system is one sense, but it is what they are being taught at home that causes behavior problems at school not the other way round. I love these kids and I deal with what i am given. And yea I have delt with a high addict before! It is not the school system's fault a 14 year old comes to school high. Where were his parents when he was doing drugs at home?? My point is that parents who lambast the school system and protray public education as worthless are often the cause of what we have to deal with at public school. The pervasive attitude that teachers are worthless passes on to students, and I have to fight an uphill battle that i shouldn't be struggling with to prove that my class is worth their time. I eventually do it, but if they hadn't been taught that attitude at home I would have a cild in my class who is happy to be there learning rather that one just filling a desk b/c he has to. It is vry challenging, but my point is it wouldn't be nearly so if parents were willing to meet me halfway! I am not threatened by anyone who chooses to homeschool thier child. I do question whether most parents are qualified to do so at a high school level. How many parents can effectively homeschool physics, chemistry, and calculus? Not very many.

Is it even a little bit possible that some of your fellow teachers aren't as committed as you? Maybe just a few cut corner, pop in a Blockbuster movie while planning the next rally on how they are being forced to "teach to the test"? I know that within my office there is a wide variety of abilities and levels of motivation. I doesn't threaten me at ALL if someone says there is a problem with a couple of the attorneys. H*ck, I agee there are some that are just marking the days to retirement.

The other sad part is that statistically if you are a committed teacher, and have enough on the ball that you are not simply cruising through the motions on a daily basis, you will likely leave the profession or move into some form of management. Sadly, there are far too many who DO fit the bill that its about the $$ for the district, which creates their own little fiefdom and as long as the $$ keeps coming in [Lord knows there will never be enough], and people can exercise power with little personal accountability [you do realize its ALWAYS the parent's fault, the Republican's fault, the test's fault, ad nauseum], and force a radical social agenda forward designed to remake American society with need for ballot box or court while turning out a sufficient number of individuals who really won't be qualified for anything other than menial labor -then whether or not the children are actually EDUCATED is simply a happy, accidental, byproduct. My DSD makes me nuts, but absolutely cracks me up that as a public school teacher REFUSES to place her children in the system she works in.....and she is not a-typical.
 
I've never supported competency tests for the homeschooling parent and still don't, but I'm getting there.


The state of Pennsylvania requires all homeschooling and cyberschooling students to take the SAME standardized tests required of their public school peers. Dd was required to take the AIMSWeb last year. And will be required to take the AIMSWeb again this year. And no, parents are not allowed to give the assessment. She must report to a designated testing site where a
state certified Pennsylvania teacher administers the examination.


If a homeschool / cyberschool child is not working to their potential then the state holds the parent accountable and the child must return to brick and mortar education.
 
Wow. I don't read much in this section of the DIS and now I am thankful that I don't.

I can't believe how people are attacked on this FAMILY board. I hope you realize that you teach your children by example. Why must you attack someone for having an opinion that differs from your own? Your discussion and suggestions are with and for the OP, not so you can argue between yourselves. Don't you realize that the arguement cannot be won?

I hope a few of you take a step back, reread some of your responses, and think about how we lead our children by example.
 
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