Spoke to principal- I'm not a happy camper-- update post 155

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Way back before the debate about homeschooling began :confused3 , I posted a response about ISTEP. It is being moved to the spring, but the kids have to take it twice this year because we have no benchmarks for a spring test.

Wow, this thread got off topic!

somehow I missed that in the thread :rolleyes1
thanks for clearing that up, it makes much more sense now

if it is given 2x this year, then shouldn't the second score, really be the one that matters, regarding if summer school is warranted
 
The state of Pennsylvania requires all homeschooling and cyberschooling students to take the SAME standardized tests required of their public school peers. Dd was required to take the AIMSWeb last year. And will be required to take the AIMSWeb again this year. And no, parents are not allowed to give the assessment. She must report to a designated testing site where a
state certified Pennsylvania teacher administers the examination.


If a homeschool / cyberschool child is not working to their potential then the state holds the parent accountable and the child must return to brick and mortar education.

Well, there's no argument from me that the student should be demonstrating proficiency.

But it's interesting that you would point to standardized testing as an indicator of the homeschooling teacher's competence.
 
OMG- this thread isn't a homeschooling vs public school, or are teachers doing their job, or the validity of standardized test(although even I was tempted to throw my 2 cents in about that one). The bottom line is this:

Is it fair for the OP to have to change her vacation plans so her DS can take a test that proves nothing? Regardless of where she's going-it is her right to have family time with her child. When she booked the vacation in the first place she was told it was alright-but the new principal has a different view on things. And that's the problem-it's HER view. So she is basically lying to the OP saying he will have to do summer school-where in NO WAY does it say that on the tests website.

If the child passed the previous grade with good grades what is this test telling us? IF HE PASSED HE OBVIOUSLY KNOW THE MATERIAL!!! Sheesh!

And I find it funny that the principal was in no way worried about him missing class time-only the test-which the school gets evaluated on-hmmmmm???

One more thing -the pass percentage is about 73%
(How well did Indiana students do in 2006?
About 70 percent of the students who took the September exams in Grades 3-10 passed English, and about 73 percent passed the math part of the Indiana Statewide Testing for Educational Progress-Plus.-I took this off a newspaper website NOT wikipedia-just so everyone knows):thumbsup2 so your telling me that 27% of those who fail the test are in summer school? I highly doubt it. You'd see a teachers strike so fast your head would spin!:laughing:

Go ahead now and flame away:lmao:

Lisa
 
I'm sorry you are stuck in such a difficult situation. I know what it's like to wait for a long time to plan something and then have a big wrench thrown in the works.

I know you can't go back in time and change things, but if I were in your situation, I would have moved my dates around if I found out testing was going on. Whether or not we think standardized testing is important (and I'm not a fan), the school does and their funding often hinges on the results. I would want the school my child is attending to get all of the funding they can get. I also think cramming the test into one day would be very stressful.

What I wouldn't do is withdraw my child and say I was homeschooling when it's just to get around the rules. Homeschoolers often have to fight tightening regulations and accusations that they really aren't doing anything. Pulling your child out and lying about homeschooling only hurts those that have decided that homeschooling is the best educational choice for their children and have committed to devote the time and hard work it takes to do it well. Yes, you can use Disney as an educational resource, but it takes research and work to develop a true curriculum around your trip. It's more than just showing up at Epcot and saying you are going to learn something new.

I think one thing you need to consider is if starting the school year in an adversarial relationship with your child's school is a good thing. These are the people you are going to team up with to insure your child is getting everything he can out of his education. Starting with a big fight may not be the best way to build a partnership. Sometimes it is necessary, but realize that this can make for a difficult year in general.

I don't see the issue as you pulling your child from school, but when you are pulling your child from school. Adults can't always take vacations when they want to do so. They may have something going on at work that means they can't go at a certain time. Think of school testing in the same light. It's a time when your child has a job that may well be more important than taking a vacation.

I think you have a few options. You can reschedule your trip. You can approach the superintendent with the information that you were told earlier that it wasn't going to be a problem. You can thumb your nose at the principal and risk your child being sent to summer school. Sometimes none of the choices are good. You need try to work within the proper channels to see if everything can be worked out and if not you need to think hard about whether or not the consequences will be worth the choice you make for your child. Maybe they will just let him re-test after all, but maybe they will insist on summer school. And if you decide that summer school isn't fair and you don't send your child, then be prepared for the possibility that he has to repeat a year of school.

I'm not saying any of that to be harsh. I'm just cautioning you to sit down and really think things through before you decide on which direction you want to take with this. I hope you are able to come up with a solution that makes everyone happy. :)
 

i am going to stick my toe in and say that this isn't about Home School vs. Standard school.
The issue is if you want to take you child out of school..you have that right. The district has a written policy about how it handles absences and it has the right to enforce that. When you register your child you agree to the district rules.

Yes, a principal can agree to allow the child to be excused and therefore make up the test with the other students who miss the test but that is up to the current principal.

Fair or not, those are the rules and if pushed or brought before the school board, they will probably go with the written rules.

I took DD out of school for a week the first three years of school, knowing that it may not be excused. After FCAT's started I didn't want her to miss the time. Even if I think FCAT is the dumbest test on the planet, it is what the state requires and until I am prepared to home school (yeah, NOT!) I will follow it.
 
Can someone please explain how these tests work. When does school start for you? If they have just started why are they being tested to see where they are academically? Why isn't that determined at the end of the previous year? Why are these tests given in September used to determine if the child needs summer school? Why weren't they taken at the end of school last year if the consequence for failing is summer school? What happenes if a child excels all year (after taking the ISTEP) is he still required to go to summer school when the school year is over?
I'm sorry for all the questions but this all sounds so backwards to me.
 
Have you not read the posts from the public school teachers on this thread? Grammar and spelling skills are lacking on both sides. I think that people are just much more relaxed in those areas when writing in a message board setting.

My spelling it terrible and I know that. I am disleyxic and my mom taught me to read at home by sight before I went to K so I never learned phonics as a child. If I don't memorize the spelling I can't spell it. My mom didn't know she wasn't doing the best thing for me at the time, she was uninformed.
 
/
Can someone please explain how these tests work. When does school start for you? If they have just started why are they being tested to see where they are academically? Why isn't that determined at the end of the previous year? Why are these tests given in September used to determine if the child needs summer school? Why weren't they taken at the end of school last year if the consequence for failing is summer school? What happenes if a child excels all year (after taking the ISTEP) is he still required to go to summer school when the school year is over?
I'm sorry for all the questions but this all sounds so backwards to me.

Given the end of Sept. get the results from fall test end of Nov.,spring test given in Mar., result back in Aug. I have NO idea what this test accomplishes myself:confused3
 
Harvard University
EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION



Harvard Business School
Harvard Divinity School
Harvard Law School
Harvard Medical School
John F. Kennedy School of Government
Radcliffe College
Location:
Cambridge, MA

Founding Date:
8-Sep-1636

Motto:
Veritas

Team:
Crimson

Mascot:
John Harvard

Enrollment:
19,650



So roughly, each year The Harvard Freshman class is around 4500 students.
And 5 to 10 are homeschooled. Big whoop:confused3

I do admire your tenacity, Disney8740, and your very strong opinions. Especially in the realm of Homeschooling and authentic cuisine.;)

The freshman class isn't 4500. the whole undergrad enrollment is approximately 6500. That ups the odds just a tad.
 
Study: Wikipedia as accurate as Britannica
By Daniel Terdiman
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Wikipedia is about as good a source of accurate information as Britannica, the venerable standard-bearer of facts about the world around us, according to a study published this week in the journal Nature.
Over the last couple of weeks, Wikipedia, the free, open-access encyclopedia, has taken a great deal of flak in the press for problems related to the credibility of its authors and its general accountability.

In particular, Wikipedia has taken hits for its inclusion, for four months, of an anonymously written article linking former journalist John Seigenthaler to the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and John F. Kennedy. At the same time, the blogosphere was buzzing for several days about podcasting pioneer Adam Curry's being accused of anonymously deleting references to others' seminal work on the technology.

Related story
Growing pains for Wikipedia
After two scandals in one week, Wikipedia's founder decides to make a change to the anyone-can-contribute encyclopedia.In response to situations like these and others in its history, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales has always maintained that the service and its community are built around a self-policing and self-cleaning nature that is supposed to ensure its articles are accurate.

Still, many critics have tried to downplay its role as a source of valid information and have often pointed to the Encyclopedia Britannica as an example of an accurate reference.

For its study, Nature chose articles from both sites in a wide range of topics and sent them to what it called "relevant" field experts for peer review. The experts then compared the competing articles--one from each site on a given topic--side by side, but were not told which article came from which site. Nature got back 42 usable reviews from its field of experts.

In the end, the journal found just eight serious errors, such as general misunderstandings of vital concepts, in the articles. Of those, four came from each site. They did, however, discover a series of factual errors, omissions or misleading statements. All told, Wikipedia had 162 such problems, while Britannica had 123.

That averages out to 2.92 mistakes per article for Britannica and 3.86 for Wikipedia.

"An expert-led investigation carried out by Nature--the first to use peer review to compare Wikipedia and Britannica's coverage of science," the journal wrote, "suggests that such high-profile examples (like the Seigenthaler and Curry situations) are the exception rather than the rule."

And to Wales, while Britannica came out looking a little bit more accurate than Wikipedia, the Nature study was validation of his service's fundamental structure.

"I was very pleased, just to see that (the study) was reasonably favorable," Wales told CNET News.com. "I think it provides, for us, a great counterpoint to the press coverage we've gotten recently, because it puts the focus on the broader quality and not just one article."

He also acknowledged that the error rate for each encyclopedia was not insignificant, and added that he thinks such numbers demonstrate that broad review of encyclopedia articles is needed.

He also said that the results belie the notion that Britannica is infallible.

"I have very great respect for Britannica," Wales said. But "I think there is a general view among a lot of people that it has no errors, like, 'I read it in Britannica, it must be true.' It's good that people see that there are a lot of errors everywhere."

To Britannica officials, however, the Nature results showed that Wikipedia still has a way to go.

"The (Nature) article is saying that Wikipedia has a third more errors" than Britannica, said Jorge Cauz, president of Encyclopedia Britannica.

But Cauz and editor in chief Dale Hoiberg also said they were concerned that Nature had not specified the problems that it had found in Britannica.

"We've asked them a number of questions about the process they used," Hoiberg said. "They said in (their article) that the inaccuracies included errors, omissions and misleading statements. But there's no indication of how many of each. So we're very eager to look at that and explore it because we take it very seriously."

All this proves is that Bratianica is slightly more accurate overall. I still hold that a site where anyone can post anything which is how most of the info on wilkki is collected is not a valid sorce. Almost all the major universities agree. The DO NOT accept papers that site wikki.
 
Eliza61, you're also right-- the standardized tests hurt the gifted children, too. Schools need everyone to pass. Why spend time and money on gifted children who will pass anyway? The administrative argument is that if the school loses funding, gifted students will get even less. So sad. The students who are most behind are the ones schools are focused on now. As a teacher, I can say we are really, really upset about that.

This is COMPLETELY our experience as well. Think that's why I get some upset by any push for being in school, playing by the rules, etc. I already feel my children are at a disadvantage because they have parents who are involved and care about their education and do everthing within their power to help them succeed. THAT is why I have no problem missing school for WDW. After all, most of my tax dollars seem to go to hot lunches for those who can't pay or summer school for those who need it or remedial work for OTHER kids. Thank goodness I can afford lunches and that my kids do NOT need remedial help. But, those are the same reasons I can and will pull my kids out of a school system that isn't always that concerned about my kids since my kids aren't pulling down those test scores.
 
Make your choices but be prepared to deal with the consequences. If you have to have the vacation and you see no other way then sacrifice your child and deal with the repeating of the grade. What I don't quite get is why it is ok to deal with a spouses vacation limitations, but not to deal with the limitations of the child's schedule as well. If you don't like what the school offers or suggests, then home school your child. Only you know what is best for yourself and your family, but remember we all have choices and we have to deal with the consequesnces of our choices. While it may not seem fair, the rules are there for a reason and if you don't want to deal with them then opt out of that educational choice.
 
School here started on August 12th in our district. Each district in Indiana is different, but the vast majority start much earlier than what seems typical for much of the rest of the US (my MIL's district started on the 19th, my dad's on the 11th, my nephew's on the 14th). So the kids will have been in school for over a month by the time ISTEPs are given. They are supposed to test over last year's materials to give this year's teachers an idea of where each student is at, who needs extra assistance & where, etc. Many, many years ago they were given in the spring to test over the current year's progress. I have no idea when they switched to the fall, but it was sometime between when I finished high school and when my own kids started elementary. Now they have decided that fall is NOT the time when they are most effective so they are switching them back to the spring, so they will be once again testing over the current year's progress and thus more effectively see who needs help over the summer to stay at level with their peers rather than getting held back in school......or so is the theory. I have no idea if failing them currently affects next summer's summer school or not so I can not address that.....we have never had to deal with that issue. I DO know that it is CONSTANTLY drilled into parents with information that they are to NOT schedule to have their kids out of school during testing unless it's an emergency or illness. That is why it is scheduled over a 2-week time frame. This gives time for in-class testing, plus days for make-ups for kids who have missed for illness or emergencies. They are not allowed to give it outside of this 2-week time frame as far as I know. We have access to the school's calendar up to 2 years in advance, which includes ISTEP testing schedules. It is repeated over & over (regardless of whether or not you agree with standardized testing, it is a fact of life in the public school system and has been since I was in elementary school.....30 years ago) that you are not to schedule appointments, vacations, etc during this time. So yes, the original principal shouldn't have said to go ahead, but also it would never occurred to me to even think of scheduling something during this time anyway. I hope this has answered some of the questions about how ISTEPs work. I really have no idea with the summer school thing though as it has never cropped up for us. But the schools ARE under tremendous pressure to get every student tested and a lot rides on the results.
 
It doesnt matter where it came from or who answers it. What they speak of is the truth. I agree to the article as that is exactly what I have always thought and believed in. IMHO, you teachers need to open your eyeballs and realize theres more then 1 way to receive a proper education. My sister is to a teacher for a public school. But at least she can admit and agree that home schooling is the way to go!

You know, your kids are going to turn out ignorant if you only teach them what you believe to be true, rather than what is truly accurate. You do homeschooling a disservice by behaving in an ignorant manner. I know many many homeschoolers who would be offended by your posts.
 
I have to say I find it funny all the people deciding the merits of a test that has been given to Indiana school children for over 20 years.

Right or wrong, its the way Indiana has done things for the last 20 years and I don't see them changing the rules because it interferes with someones vacation plans. If you have lived in the state for more than a year or two you know what a big deal the test is.

Should the old principal told her it was OK to go, no, but we also don't know her motives for telling her its OK. Was she losing her job and wanted the give the new principal a mess to deal with? We will never know.

The OP knew it was a big deal or she would never had asked last year.

Yes, they do have that many kids taking summer school. If you don't you can be held back. Will you be? That I don't know because like I said earlier my kids have always passed.

The test use to be given in the spring and people complained it didn't give you enough time to help children before summer vacation. It use to be given in the fall and people complained that the kids forget over the summer and shouldn't be tested then. There are good and bad points to the test no matter when you give it.

DO I like the test, no, but I have bigger worries than weather or not to give the ISPTEP in the spring or fall. I can't believe all the people that don't even live in Indiana weighing in on the merits of the test.
 
Given the end of Sept. get the results from fall test end of Nov.,spring test given in Mar., result back in Aug. I have NO idea what this test accomplishes myself:confused3

I think the September test is the baseline that they use to measure the progress that is made during the year. The March test would show what has been achieved during the year.:flower3:
 
I think the September test is the baseline that they use to measure the progress that is made during the year. The March test would show what has been achieved during the year.:flower3:

That makes more sense. I still don't see how a failure in September means a student must attend summer school. If the tests are given throughout the year, and there is significant improvement, why would the student need summer school? If they do fail the first, are they put in special ed classes so they can get extra help?
Also if they base the students improvement on that test in September, there must be an opportunity to make it up. So in the OP's case, they should allow her ds to take the test on the make-up dates. I realize that her ds will not be sick, or have an excused absence for the test dates, but she had a previous arrangement with the school's principal. I believe that should still be honored.
 
Well, there's no argument from me that the student should be demonstrating proficiency.

But it's interesting that you would point to standardized testing as an indicator of the homeschooling teacher's competence.

That is because that is all the state is interested in "seeing".

We had one of those *Eureka* moments the other day when she and the little boys nextdoor wanted to build a pyramid. DD explained that you needed to start with the base of a square and then tape four triangles around. I will never forget the look on their faces...like she had two heads. The one said that didn't make sense. Then she ran inside and pulled out her Math Journal and showed him. (We had a lesson on that in plane and solid figures in Geometry, Probability and Fractions).

But of course no one would consider that a true measurement of problem solving skills.
 
That makes more sense. I still don't see how a failure in September means a student must attend summer school. If the tests are given throughout the year, and there is significant improvement, why would the student need summer school? If they do fail the first, are they put in special ed classes so they can get extra help?
Also if they base the students improvement on that test in September, there must be an opportunity to make it up. So in the OP's case, they should allow her ds to take the test on the make-up dates. I realize that her ds will not be sick, or have an excused absence for the test dates, but she had a previous arrangement with the school's principal. I believe that should still be honored.

I'm not quite sure about the summer school thing either. I think its not so much a fail as it is that the child has not reached certain guidelines (probably connected to funding). If I remember correctly through this thread, they would be gone both during the original testing days as well as the make-up days because it is a 2 week vacation.
 
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