Help! I don't know if I should call Child Protective Services?!

[Bluestars]

In some places a parent is held accountable if their child under the age of 18 doesn't go to school. As a parent, I know if my kids are in school or not and it would not be acceptable for them to not go. I don't think the OP is being unreasonable about her concern for her BIL or her line of thinking that the mother should be responsible for making sure he goes to school and has food.

I guess we just disagree on this. I think a parent's responsibilities stop at 18, not 16.

 

[cheermom1]

I have not read all the replies but i have a question..these kids are 16 and 17 do they have jobs? If they do then some of this can be stopped like eating at school and such..now I know that is a parents job to make sure they have food and stuff but they are old enough to get jobs and be able to at least eat...with that said I think they are older and csp won't do anything for them ..what i mean is that if they do come in and take the kids they will only be in the system for 1 and 2 years and have to move in the last years of their schooling ...they might also get very angry about it and go down the wrong path even more ..I think maybe some counseling will be the best through school is where I would start...for the nyquil thing...

 

[lillygator]

I guess we just disagree on this. I think a parent's responsibilities stop at 18, not 16.

good to know.

 

[luvsJack]

Where did the OP say that the 16 year old won't hold down a job? Maybe he can't find one.

She did say that the fridge and pantry were bare, she also said that the kids do not eat breakfast because their mother will not buy food for them to eat breakfast. She never said that it was because the mother doesn't cook it.

There is not one blessed thing that takes this mother's responsibility away. Until these kids are 18 it is her responsibility to make sure they have what they need to survive. Being a working parent or a single parent does not change one thing. I have been both and am still one and my children have always had food to eat. It may be cheap food, may not even be the best choices but they would have never gone to school hungry.

It is also her responsibility to make sure this kid is in school. It may be his own fault for not going but it is also her fault for allowing it to happen. A 16 year old is still a child and she should be seeing to it that he is doing what he should.

If she is buying cigarettes for him, whether by providing the money or because he is underage, she is committing a crime. It is against the law to provide a minor with cigarettes.


So, by the OP's account (and, after all, she is the one who should know the most about this) we have a kid who is not being made to attend school, his parent is not providing food for him (whether cooked or just available for him) and is providing him with cigarettes (either paying for them or going to the store and getting them for him). All of these things are against the law and considered neglect.

And you are correct, it is not a perfect world. That is exactly why CPS exists.

 

[lillygator]

to outsiders my girls don't eat breakfast....my soon to be 5 yr old gets it at school as does my 1st grader.

Myself - I hate breakfast, have never liked it. I still think we need more info and facts before calling CPS. It sounds like OP is making judgements without knowing the facts. These aren't toddlers running amok in the neighborhood in their diapers.

 

[N.Bailey]

I really think there is more to this story than simply cigarettes. If CPS gets involved, can't they periodically run random drug testing? That alone might be worth making a report.

Smoking, while unhealthy (and I'm certainly not building a case for its use), doesn't change normal behavior for the most part. I honesty think there is more to this than merely tobacco related drugs.

If CPS can train mom to be a better mom, what is there really to lose by placing the call? I don't care what anyone says, mom is responsible for that child till he's 18 years old. So, saying he should get a job so he can eat is ridiculous, IMO. Sure, kids are placed into that situation everyday of the week in this country because some parents doesn't have the means to support the family, but that's a vastly different situation than mom simply not fulfilling her obligation when she has the means to do so. Dad is obviously getting a free pass here, but that's another issue entirely.

I think you should make the call.

 

[clovergirl5]

In some places a parent is held accountable if their child under the age of 18 doesn't go to school. As a parent, I know if my kids are in school or not and it would not be acceptable for them to not go. I don't think the OP is being unreasonable about her concern for her BIL or her line of thinking that the mother should be responsible for making sure he goes to school and has food.

I guess we just disagree on this. I think a parent's responsibilities stop at 18, not 16.

Well said...

 

[VillageMama]

I know plenty of angry teens and they would not take kindly to help like that.

And I know plenty of angry teens who grew up to be adults and looked back on their childhood and now wish that someone had gotten involved and helped them.

No, they wouldn't have sent flowers to the "interferer" at the time. But they sure would bless that person all the rest of their days.

Instead they look back in grief because no one cared enough to get involved. It would mean so much to them if someone had just tried.

 

[lillygator]

well why not get involved personally involved if you are family?

 

[Tink888]

But the kid isn't learning responsibility, is he? He is skipping school, swigging Nyquil, and smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. So what is the harm if someone checks in on them and offers up some help. I personally would rather piss off my relatives in an effort to help than to be asked to bail one out later.

In some places a parent is held accountable if their child under the age of 18 doesn't go to school. As a parent, I know if my kids are in school or not and it would not be acceptable for them to not go. I don't think the OP is being unreasonable about her concern for her BIL or her line of thinking that the mother should be responsible for making sure he goes to school and has food.

I guess we just disagree on this. I think a parent's responsibilities stop at 18, not 16.

Where did the OP say that the 16 year old won't hold down a job? Maybe he can't find one.

She did say that the fridge and pantry were bare, she also said that the kids do not eat breakfast because their mother will not buy food for them to eat breakfast. She never said that it was because the mother doesn't cook it.

There is not one blessed thing that takes this mother's responsibility away. Until these kids are 18 it is her responsibility to make sure they have what they need to survive. Being a working parent or a single parent does not change one thing. I have been both and am still one and my children have always had food to eat. It may be cheap food, may not even be the best choices but they would have never gone to school hungry.

It is also her responsibility to make sure this kid is in school. It may be his own fault for not going but it is also her fault for allowing it to happen. A 16 year old is still a child and she should be seeing to it that he is doing what he should.

If she is buying cigarettes for him, whether by providing the money or because he is underage, she is committing a crime. It is against the law to provide a minor with cigarettes.


So, by the OP's account (and, after all, she is the one who should know the most about this) we have a kid who is not being made to attend school, his parent is not providing food for him (whether cooked or just available for him) and is providing him with cigarettes (either paying for them or going to the store and getting them for him). All of these things are against the law and considered neglect.

And you are correct, it is not a perfect world. That is exactly why CPS exists.

And I'm not disagreeing with any of you as to what a parent's responsibilities are. What I am saying is that we have one person's perspective on a situation and a bunch of recommendations to contact CPS. It has been my experience that one perspective is NEVER the entire truth of a situation.

No one knows all of the facts and it might very well be that the Mom is dealing with a difficult child and she is overwhelmed so instead of calling CPS and ripping apart a family (and by that I'm not referring to the boy being removed from the house, I'm referring to the destruction of the relationship within the family, because the Mom WILL figure out who called), why not talk to the mother? Or talk to a guidance counselor (because as Bluestars mentioned, if the boy is really missing as much school as the OP says, the school is going to be ALL OVER it, especially here in PA). Talk to the boy. There are programs and services already in place which do not involve CPS.

I'm sorry, and feel free to flame away but as a parent and given everything the OP said and everything that hasn't been said, I'd only use CPS as a last resort. There are other alternative ways to intervene IMHO.

If the OP is worried about smoking and drinking cough medicine, maybe her DH should talk to the Mom and get the kid into rehab. CPS involvement isn't required for that.

Maybe the ENTIRE family needs to sit down TOGETHER, as a family and have a conversation and go from there.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

And I know plenty of angry teens who grew up to be adults and looked back on their childhood and now wish that someone had gotten involved and helped them.

No, they wouldn't have sent flowers to the "interferer" at the time. But they sure would bless that person all the rest of their days.

Instead they look back in grief because no one cared enough to get involved. It would mean so much to them if someone had just tried.

I would like to hear what the DH says about his family.

 

[luvsJack]

I understand the frustration. I have family that have booted my nephew out at 17 because he was gay. Naturally he was treated like crap as a child.

He is doing well now.

My dh moved out with me to another city to escape his situation. We are doing great.

My BIL moved out at 16. He is fine.

Point here is that his mom is going off the rails on the crazy train and you are damned either way.

Best course of action is to counsel the boy, give him food, and help him to see the light ASAP.

You know that a 16yo is going to be very defensive about the situation. What exactly is CPS going to do for a 16yo guy? I know plenty of angry teens and they would not take kindly to help like that.

That is just reality. Might make things worse.

I am happy to hear that you know several that had a happy outcome when they had to take care of themselves at a young age. But, I can give you just as many stories with unhappy outcomes.

Oldest DS has a best friend that lived with us for two years (his mom left him in a trailer with no lights and no heat so he could go to school while she moved in with her mom), for that two years he did great but then he wanted to go back to his mom and grandmom's. Nothing had changed and they still did not take care of him. Now he is addicted to pills and anything else he can get his hands on (dr's say he is self medicating because of the pain his mom has put him through) and we dread seeing his number or his ex-wife's number come up on the phone because we are so afraid it is someone telling us he is dead. I now wish I had called CPS in addition to taking him in.

Younger DS has a friend that his mom has spent his life not taking care of him (very similar to what the OP describes). He moved out by 16 or 17. He is now 26. He has only held one job in his life and doesn't have that one now. He lives in a house with several other young men who support him. He spends his nights playing WoW and his days sleeping. He has no interest in anything else. He also went to a mental health clinic (his aunt made him go) and was told that his video games are his version of self medication. CPS should have been called much, much earlier. (this one I actually didn't know what was going on until all was said and done)

So you see, taking responsibility for yourself at 16 doesn't always turn out so great. Not all 16 year old boys have the maturity level to take care of themselves.

Again, CPS is not going to remove the boy but they can very probably offer the counseling this family needs. And they are much better equipped to do actual counseling than the OP is (unless she has a degree I am not aware of). The PP that works for CPS said all of this and no one seems to be reading what she said.

 

[luvsJack]

to outsiders my girls don't eat breakfast....my soon to be 5 yr old gets it at school as does my 1st grader.

Myself - I hate breakfast, have never liked it. I still think we need more info and facts before calling CPS. It sounds like OP is making judgements without knowing the facts. These aren't toddlers running amok in the neighborhood in their diapers.

But do you have food available if your children want to eat it?

The OP was IN the house, she stayed there and there wasn't any food. She and her DH bought the food. Now they are not staying there and she has been in the house (it is her MIL, after all) and there is no food. How can you think she doesn't know the facts? Its her family, I think she would know the facts much more than we do.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I am happy to hear that you know several that had a happy outcome when they had to take care of themselves at a young age. But, I can give you just as many stories with unhappy outcomes.

Oldest DS has a best friend that lived with us for two years (his mom left him in a trailer with no lights and no heat so he could go to school while she moved in with her mom), for that two years he did great but then he wanted to go back to his mom and grandmom's. Nothing had changed and they still did not take care of him. Now he is addicted to pills and anything else he can get his hands on (dr's say he is self medicating because of the pain his mom has put him through) and we dread seeing his number or his ex-wife's number come up on the phone because we are so afraid it is someone telling us he is dead. I now wish I had called CPS in addition to taking him in.

Younger DS has a friend that his mom has spent his life not taking care of him (very similar to what the OP describes). He moved out by 16 or 17. He is now 26. He has only held one job in his life and doesn't have that one now. He lives in a house with several other young men who support him. He spends his nights playing WoW and his days sleeping. He has no interest in anything else. He also went to a mental health clinic (his aunt made him go) and was told that his video games are his version of self medication. CPS should have been called much, much earlier. (this one I actually didn't know what was going on until all was said and done)

So you see, taking responsibility for yourself at 16 doesn't always turn out so great. Not all 16 year old boys have the maturity level to take care of themselves.

Again, CPS is not going to remove the boy but they can very probably offer the counseling this family needs. And they are much better equipped to do actual counseling than the OP is (unless she has a degree I am not aware of). The PP that works for CPS said all of this and no one seems to be reading what she said.

I am not going to argue that point with you. I know plenty of folks with bad outcomes as well.

Don't you think that the 16yo in this case would benefit more by family taking an interest in him instead of CPS?

That is where I am on the fence. Do you know what I mean?

 

[luvsJack]

I am not going to argue that point with you. I know plenty of folks with bad outcomes as well.

Don't you think that the 16yo in this case would benefit more by family taking an interest in him instead of CPS?

That is where I am on the fence. Do you know what I mean?

I do see what you mean, and I don't mean to argue either. I was serious about it being wonderful that you know some with good outcomes. Sometimes a family member taking interest isn't going to work though.

Just like when I took that kid in. He still thinks of us as his second family and we love him dearly; but I couldn't replace mom. He wanted his mom to love him and take care of him the way I did. She wasn't able to do it (several issues). I know I did the right thing by giving him a place to live, but I wish I had called CPS too. They could have stepped in and made it so that he couldn't go back without his mom making some changes (and maybe it would have given her some help too). Without that choice, maybe he wouldn't have felt that he needed to go back home.

 

[luvmy3]

Of course a 16 year old does not need his mother to provide for him like as pre-schooler does. However she is his mother and has a moral, and legal obligation to do so, that is the bottom line.
I do not agree with willy nilly calling CPS on families, I have see what happens when some do-gooder calls just because they don't agree with the way the family does certain things, and I don't believe in needlessly putting a family through something like that. The OP is a family member, she has witnessed the neglect with her own eyes and has discussed it with the two minors involved and it doesn't appear things are getting better, in fact it sounds like they are getting worse. Now is the time to do something more to help and if contacting CPS is the next step, then that is what should be done.
Good Luck OP

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I do see what you mean, and I don't mean to argue either. I was serious about it being wonderful that you know some with good outcomes. Sometimes a family member taking interest isn't going to work though.

Just like when I took that kid in. He still thinks of us as his second family and we love him dearly; but I couldn't replace mom. He wanted his mom to love him and take care of him the way I did. She wasn't able to do it (several issues). I know I did the right thing by giving him a place to live, but I wish I had called CPS too. They could have stepped in and made it so that he couldn't go back without his mom making some changes (and maybe it would have given her some help too). Without that choice, maybe he wouldn't have felt that he needed to go back home.

I understand what you are saying. It is just so hard at the time to figure out the right path.

 

[kafitty]

wow. i gotta say, i certainly have a changed opinion of a lot of regular posters on here, after reading their replies on this subject.

firstly, i LOVE how people keep recommending the same course of action that the OP has already taken (i know people don't read every post, but jeez at least try to pay attention before judging). i think she's done everything that she can herself, and she's at her wits end because it hasn't been good enough...thus wanting to call CPS. They have many more tools to help this family than the OP does, mainly because that's what they're there for.

and, okay, i know it's been awhile since some of you have been 16. But asking a 16 year-old to make good decisions and support themselves is fairly ludicrous, especially considering this young man probably doesn't have too many good role models for taking responsibility.

he is a minor, she is his mother and primary caregiver: there needs to be accountability and consequences for his actions, mainly the skipping school and smoking. The "oh I know plenty of kids that smoke at 16, no big deal" thing is absolute crap - that doesn't make it RIGHT! And if she's buying them for him...ughh that just grinds my gears to no end. i would also like to refute the PP saying that the smoking wouldn't cause health problems yet - i can't even get near cigarette smoke without feeling ill, and should i ever be dumb enough to actually smoke one again (oi, alcohol), i'll let you know how long i throw up for.

i understand the whole "If he's starving, he should get a job to feed himself" deal, but again, i don't think this kid knows to watch out for his nutrition and well-being, you know? i know a lot of people who don't eat because they're never hungry (which, at times, can be attributed to the cigarette thing), but that doesn't mean they don't need adequate nutrition. And, TIME Magazine just did a piece recently on how it's becoming nearly impossible for teenagers to find a job, because a lot of out-of-work adults have now taken the traditional teenage positions in retail stores, fast food, etc.

16 is still pretty young, folks...i know he'll be an "adult" in 2 years, but unless he's given the tools to grow & mature, that will not happen, KWIM? Kids need parents in their life for a reason, to PARENT. They are legally obligated to do so until 18, and i think this mother is failing him.

OP, i hope everything works out.

 

[Tink888]

Okay, at the risk of sounding creepy, I'm going to post this anyway.....

Even with the Dis search disabled, a quick google of the OP's username will take you to a pre-trip thread posted by the OP where she names all of her family members. From the that thread and this thread alone, there is ALL sorts of personal info posted about the OP.

From there a quick search on Facebook will pull up a picture of the BIL she is worried about. The picture shows the boy eating a cookie.

To find all of this took less than five minutes. Now, if a complete stranger on the Disboards is able to do this, how long does anyone really think it will take the OP's MIL to figure out the OP made the call to CPS?

It is so incredibly easy to come on to the boards and ask for advice and even easier to give advice based on information which may or may not be completely accurate. The thing we all forget is that there are real people behind these computer screens, with real issues, with real consequences.

OP - I am sincerely not trying to be mean, creepy or anything else and what I'm about to say comes genuinely comes from the a place of concern.

I have no doubt and you are a caring person who is genuinely concerned about your BIL. I have no doubt that your BIL has some issues. Before you make a phone call to CPS which may or may not result in good consequences for your BIL, please, please talk to your DH, talk to you BIL, talk to your MIL, talk to the school.

The call you make to CPS, as helpful as it might be, WILL ALSO come with unintended negative consequences and damage to every relationship you have with every member of your DH's family and these are people who will be in your life forever because of your son.

Before you make a call to CPS, make sure you have exhausted EVERY other alternative in attempting to help you BIL.

The internet and message boards are a wonderful opportunity to gain unbiased advice about a situation but it is very naive to post the kinds of personal info that you have posted and then post a loaded question and believe that it is anonymous.

I wish you, your BIL and your family the best of luck in resolving this situation in a way that causes the least stress to your family. Good luck!

 

[lillygator]

Okay, at the risk of sounding creepy, I'm going to post this anyway.....

Even with the Dis search disabled, a quick google of the OP's username will take you to a pre-trip thread posted by the OP where she names all of her family members. From the that thread and this thread alone, there is ALL sorts of personal info posted about the OP.

From there a quick search on Facebook will pull up a picture of the BIL she is worried about. The picture shows the boy eating a cookie.

To find all of this took less than five minutes. Now, if a complete stranger on the Disboards is able to do this, how long does anyone really think it will take the OP's MIL to figure out the OP made the call to CPS?

It is so incredibly easy to come on to the boards and ask for advice and even easier to give advice based on information which may or may not be completely accurate. The thing we all forget is that there are real people behind these computer screens, with real issues, with real consequences.

OP - I am sincerely not trying to be mean, creepy or anything else and what I'm about to say comes genuinely comes from the a place of concern.

I have no doubt and you are a caring person who is genuinely concerned about your BIL. I have no doubt that your BIL has some issues. Before you make a phone call to CPS which may or may not result in good consequences for your BIL, please, please talk to your DH, talk to you BIL, talk to your MIL, talk to the school.

The call you make to CPS, as helpful as it might be, WILL ALSO come with unintended negative consequences and damage to every relationship you have with every member of your DH's family and these are people who will be in your life forever because of your son.

Before you make a call to CPS, make sure you have exhausted EVERY other alternative in attempting to help you BIL.

The internet and message boards are a wonderful opportunity to gain unbiased advice about a situation but it is very naive to post the kinds of personal info that you have posted and then post a loaded question and believe that it is anonymous.

I wish you, your BIL and your family the best of luck in resolving this situation in a way that causes the least stress to your family. Good luck!

I agree with talking to your DH - what is his take on this?