Biden's Wife was NOT killed by a drunk driver.

[Zippa D Doodah]

Did and BEFORE you admonished me to do so.

If Senator Biden thought/thinks the man was drunk his opinion is his own. He lost his wife and his daughter. Both of his sons were horribly injured. He has a right to feel what he feels.

Even if it is wrong, and causes pain to others?

I can't even begin to imagine the pain Biden must have felt. No matter what teh circumstances were, it was a tragic accident. But it only compounds the tragedy that Biden's potential "misunderstanding" caused grief and pain to the other driver.

 

[yeartolate]

Even if it is wrong, and causes pain to others?

I can't even begin to imagine the pain Biden must have felt. No matter what teh circumstances were, it was a tragic accident. But it only compounds the tragedy that Biden's potential "misunderstanding" caused grief and pain to the other driver.

Say aren't we in a war in Iraq because a "misunderstanding" about WMD and the seeking of yellowcake from Africa?

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Say aren't we in a war in Iraq because a "misunderstanding" about WMD and the seeking of yellowcake from Africa?

Work with me here, ytl... I'm doing my best to be gracious about Biden in this instance, thus my careful choice of words.

 

[DVCBELLE]

In reality, this is not really revelant to the campaign - but the news media has made it relevant. They are running stories about Biden saying that the man was drunk - there is NO evidence that he was and I believe Biden's campaign even admitted as much.

So the question is why has Biden made these statements? B/C it makes a better news story and makes him more human and sympathetic to the general population. Even in his accusation he pretty much admits it is speculation. I think it speaks to his character using his dead wife and child as a campaign tool but others might not - everyone should form their own opinion.

Dawn is not low for bringing it up - it is a current and relevant news story - there are quite a few articles out therea about it.

 

[chris1gill]

Frankly, I wouldn't want to be slandered, nor any of my family members slandered posthumously. Biden is the one that needs to apologize.

Biden has nothing to apologize for. He was told in the months following the accident the guy was drinking, however, back in 1972 there was no such thing as BAL testing on the road. Joe Biden could have done a lot of things, he didn't go whining, using his new position to pressure the Republican led state at the time to press charges. He didn't do it from day 1, his focus was his family, and if he believes to this day that the guy was drinking? If that's what he was told? Prove it wasn't, you've proven nothing. He took the life of a woman, her daughter and injured the two boys, who's keeping score?

 

[CowboyCO]

Biden has nothing to apologize for. He was told in the months following the accident the guy was drinking, however, back in 1972 there was no such thing as BAL testing on the road. Joe Biden could have done a lot of things, he didn't go whining, using his new position to pressure the Republican led state at the time to press charges. He didn't do it from day 1, his focus was his family, and if he believes to this day that the guy was drinking? If that's what he was told? Prove it wasn't, you've proven nothing. He took the life of a woman, her daughter and injured the two boys, who's keeping score?

Link? Why months later? Why weren't charges filed if the guy was drinking? If no charges were filed, then he didn't "kill" Biden's wife and daughter. They were in a tragic accident..

 

[TCPluto]

I have been in two MAJOR accidents caused in part or in whole by cell phone usage. One of the accidents caused me injury that kept me out of work for 3 months and on modified duty for 2 months. No where on either accident did it mention the cell phone. Does that mean a person distracted with a cell phone did not almost kill me and my son? Now flash foward, it is such a hot button issue that it would be plastere clearly on the report.

Sorry, but without immediated breatholyzer (did it exist in 1972?) or immediate blood alcohol level.....who would know? Nobody cared that much in 1972. In 1972, falling down drunk would get a DUI. But we reasonably know now, youcan be under the influence with one or two, depending on your age, size, healt, current medications, fatigue.

But go ahead make this your hot button issue. I will be more concerned with veterans benefits, the economy, the war on terror, the enviroment, and renewable energy, and the sorry state of health care in America.

I haven't read this whole thread, but your post is wrong on many points.

Fatal accidents are scrutinized very closely, even back in 1972. If alcohol was a factor, it would have been addressed. Everyone cares, then and now, about the factors that figure into horrific, fatal crashes.

Breathalyzers were available in 1972.

No one can get drunk on "two drinks".

If the driver went to the hospital, he had his blood drawn for medical purposes, to include a blood alcohol content. Police could have, and certainly did, get these results.

In fatal accidents, police officers don't simply take the drivers license from those invloved. If he had been drinking, the police would have known.

The real issue is Biden playing up the drunk driving angle, when it simply was not a factor in the accident.

As wrong as that is, it's easy to understand the difficulty in accepting that your loved one may have played a part in the tragedy, but for her mistakes, the accident wouldn't have happened.

 

[yeartolate]

I haven't read this whole thread, but your post is wrong on many points.

Fatal accidents are scrutinized very closely, even back in 1972. If alcohol was a factor, it would have been addressed. Everyone cares, then and now, about the factors that figure into horrific, fatal crashes.

Breathalyzers were available in 1972.

No one can get drunk on "two drinks".

If the driver went to the hospital, he had his blood drawn for medical purposes, to include a blood alcohol content. Police could have, and certainly did, get these results.

In fatal accidents, police officers don't simply take the drivers license from those invloved. If he had been drinking, the police would have known.

The real issue is Biden playing up the drunk driving angle, when it simply was not a factor in the accident.

As wrong as that is, it's easy to understand the difficulty in accepting that your loved one may have played a part in the tragedy, but for her mistakes, the accident wouldn't have happened.

If breathylizers were available - what were the results? What about blood alcohol?IF they were not done in a timely manner, then we will never know,

I call BULL on not being able to get drunk on two drinks. You may not easily get drunk on one or two (except with age issues, body size, liver issues, incompatible medications, fatigue, etc- all were possibilities) So yes - it could cause a problem. But I am not seeing any evidence that BA or breathylizers were done immediatly - if you find them, I would be interested. I mean this sincerely.

But again, it looks like Biden was informed that the issue was alcohol early on. A grieving man caring for his surviving family may or may not have the desire to pursue anything. Depression may do that to you.

Now, for all ot the reports that Biden has spoken of this publicly multiple times, I am curious how many. I think we are talking a few times but the media/blogs repeated it a million more .


So prove to me, Biden wasn't informed.

So shoe me the BA or breathylizers.

 

[TCPluto]

If breathylizers were available - what were the results? What about blood alcohol?IF they were not done in a timely manner, then we will never know,

I call BULL on not being able to get drunk on two drinks. You may not easily get drunk on one or two (except with age issues, body size, liver issues, incompatible medications, fatigue, etc- all were possibilities) So yes - it could cause a problem. But I am not seeing any evidence that BA or breathylizers were done immediatly - if you find them, I would be interested. I mean this sincerely.

But again, it looks like Biden was informed that the issue was alcohol early on. A grieving man caring for his surviving family may or may not have the desire to pursue anything. Depression may do that to you.

Now, for all ot the reports that Biden has spoken of this publicly multiple times, I am curious how many. I think we are talking a few times but the media/blogs repeated it a million more .


So prove to me, Biden wasn't informed.

So shoe me the BA or breathylizers.

It was not for him to pursue or not pursue, is was the police and the prosecutor. There was no alcohol involved, accept that fact.

A breathalyzer measures blood alcohol content (BAC). A test done after the fact could be used to approximate the BAC at the time of the accident, even after many hours.

I'm not talking about me and two drinks, I'm talking about the human adult. Certainly medication, food consumption (affects absortion), and size could impact the absortion rate, just as it will affect the elimination rate. An adult with two drinks, not going to get drunk. Ever.

That Biden stated this even once is to show him to be a liar.

 

[TCPluto]

In reality, this is not really revelant to the campaign - but the news media has made it relevant. They are running stories about Biden saying that the man was drunk - there is NO evidence that he was and I believe Biden's campaign even admitted as much.

So the question is why has Biden made these statements? B/C it makes a better news story and makes him more human and sympathetic to the general population. Even in his accusation he pretty much admits it is speculation. I think it speaks to his character using his dead wife and child as a campaign tool but others might not - everyone should form their own opinion.

You've summed it up quite thoroughly.

 

[yeartolate]

I'm not talking about me and two drinks, I'm talking about the human adult. Certainly medication, food consumption (affects absortion), and size could impact the absortion rate, just as it will affect the elimination rate. An adult with two drinks, not going to get drunk. Ever.

Pssssst

http://www.ohsinc.com/alcohol_abuse_addiction_BAC_CHART.htm

And that does not factor in age, possible medications, fatigue, etc.

And for the record, from the article

Since his vice presidential nomination, Joe Biden’s 2007 statement that a “guy who allegedly … drank his lunch” and drove the truck that struck and killed his first wife and daughter has gained national media traction.

Biden spokesman David Wade said Wednesday that the senator “fully accepts the Dunn family’s word that these rumors were false.”

So the issue is?

I still would like to see where Biden has repeated this story multiple times.

 

[chris1gill]

Prove Joe Biden in his heart of hearts does not believe the man to be impaired at that time. The onus is on you since you brought it up.


http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/letter.asp

SULLIVAN: IT AIN'T SO, GRAPEVINE

Posted: Dec. 21, 2007

Your article entitled "It Ain't So, Joe" is the lowest political shot I can remember.

I'm not a newcomer to politics. I am a lifelong Republican who was particularly active in 1972. Senator Cale Boggs was a close friend of mine, whom I supported in his race against Joe Biden.

You did not mention the political climate in Delaware after our beloved Senator Boggs was put out of office by the hard work of Joe Biden and that of his wife Neilia.

Rumors were rampant. Among the rumors were stories of a drunken driver, a speeding driver, a visually impaired driver, a truck with faulty brakes and a cover-up by police controlled by Republicans. I know none of these rumors to be true, but I do know that such statements were being made all over Delaware.

In December 1972, Republicans controlled the governor's office and thus the state police and the New Castle County government and thus the county police and the office of the mayor of the city of Wilmington and thus the Wilmington police force. That is to say, Republicans controlled every major police force in Delaware. More importantly, Republicans controlled the Office of Attorney General.

Having said all of that, I believe Jerry Herlihy's version of what happened. However, you should have noted that Jerry Herlihy was known to be a partisan Republican activist who eventually became the chairman of the Republican Party of Delaware. There were others who disagreed with my belief in the Herlihy version of events.

With all that said, I don't share your view that the driver of the truck that broadsided the Biden vehicle and killed Neilia Biden and her infant daughter Amy should have feared retribution from anyone, least of all, the Democratic Biden supporters. The fact is that there was absolutely no chance that anything like retribution would happen.

However, I can say that there were many people who questioned whether the Republican-controlled police and the Republican-controlled Office of the Attorney General would make the proper calls. In my opinion, I believe that the attorney general and the state police made the right calls in every instance. But my view was not shared by many partisan Democrats.

In that political climate, when thousands and thousands of people were offering condolences to Joe Biden, were they reading from an accident report? No, they were saying how sorry they were because Neilia and Amy died at the hands of a drunken driver, a speeding driver, an impaired driver, etc.

Joe Biden heard those statements thousands of times in his weakest moments

And I'm not new to the investigation of auto accidents and what it takes to fairly charge a person with a crime in an accident case. I know how difficult it is to charge in a case where there are no apparent eyewitnesses other than the person who drove the striking vehicle.

You left out something that did not happen but could have happened. Joe Biden did not set out with vengeance in his heart to take a shot at the driver who drove the truck that hit and killed his wife and daughter and seriously injured his two sons.

He didn't send someone to scout the area around the scene of the deaths of his wife and daughter. He didn't hire a crime scene investigator in an effort to get a pound of flesh from the driver of the truck and/or the owner of the trucking company for whom he worked.

Joe Biden engaged no one to initiate a law suit which would have permitted his lawyers to cross examine the so-called "witnesses" mentioned in your article: the driver of the striking vehicle, the owner of the trucking company and the police officers. Nor did he take the opportunity to bring in his own accident reconstruction experts.

Here's something else you didn't consider and left out. In 1972 Limestone Road was a two lane road, not the expansive highway it is today. Its speed limit then was 40 miles per hour or less. Twenty feet of skid marks may prove a vehicle to be speeding, depending on the weight of the vehicle and the conditions of the roadway at the time of the accident. So would the fact that the Biden vehicle was propelled 150 feet from the point of impact. Finally, in 1972, unlike today, blood tests of drivers in fatal accidents were not mandatory. Then, according to your article, after a two-day review by the attorney general, the truck driver was cleared.

You should have left this Times news article alone. It was not necessary for you to try to crush Joe Biden's heart by telling him what's in the recesses of his mind and memory.

Nor was it necessary to seek to validate a portion of a paragraph in a book you wrote. However, it may be that by writing this thoughtless article you could generate enough interest among Biden foes to pay for the production of your book.

In the weeks following the accident, Joe Biden heard a thousand versions of the cause of the deaths of his dear wife, Neilia and daughter, Amy. With respect to Joe Biden's statements today as to what happened, of course, he was not there. He is saying what was told to him by others when he was at the lowest point in his life.

Joe Biden always says what he believes to be true.

Lawrence M. Sullivan
Delaware Public Defender

 

[TCPluto]

Pssssst

http://www.ohsinc.com/alcohol_abuse_addiction_BAC_CHART.htm

And that does not factor in age, possible medications, fatigue, etc.

And for the record, from the article





So the issue is?

I still would like to see where Biden has repeated this story multiple times.

You're really obsessed with this BAC argument, aren't you? I'll rely on my 29 years experience on the topic, thank you.

Search the net. He's made the remark several times. He knows it's a lie, and has tacitly admitted that in his recent response.

The truck driver was hospitalized apparently, a medical draw was available. Guess what. No alcohol.

But what does it matter how many times Biden has told this lie? Isn't telling the lie once enough to question his motive and credibility? Why, yes, it is.

His use of the word "allegedly" doesn't change anything. He intimated, purposely, that the guy was drunk. He sued this awful tragedy from the past to garner present day sympathy.

 

[TCPluto]

Prove Joe Biden in his heart of hearts does not believe the man to be impaired at that time. The onus is on you since you brought it up.


http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/letter.asp

SULLIVAN: IT AIN'T SO, GRAPEVINE

Posted: Dec. 21, 2007

Your article entitled "It Ain't So, Joe" is the lowest political shot I can remember.

I'm not a newcomer to politics. I am a lifelong Republican who was particularly active in 1972. Senator Cale Boggs was a close friend of mine, whom I supported in his race against Joe Biden.

You did not mention the political climate in Delaware after our beloved Senator Boggs was put out of office by the hard work of Joe Biden and that of his wife Neilia.

Rumors were rampant. Among the rumors were stories of a drunken driver, a speeding driver, a visually impaired driver, a truck with faulty brakes and a cover-up by police controlled by Republicans. I know none of these rumors to be true, but I do know that such statements were being made all over Delaware.

In December 1972, Republicans controlled the governor's office and thus the state police and the New Castle County government and thus the county police and the office of the mayor of the city of Wilmington and thus the Wilmington police force. That is to say, Republicans controlled every major police force in Delaware. More importantly, Republicans controlled the Office of Attorney General.

Having said all of that, I believe Jerry Herlihy's version of what happened. However, you should have noted that Jerry Herlihy was known to be a partisan Republican activist who eventually became the chairman of the Republican Party of Delaware. There were others who disagreed with my belief in the Herlihy version of events.

With all that said, I don't share your view that the driver of the truck that broadsided the Biden vehicle and killed Neilia Biden and her infant daughter Amy should have feared retribution from anyone, least of all, the Democratic Biden supporters. The fact is that there was absolutely no chance that anything like retribution would happen.

However, I can say that there were many people who questioned whether the Republican-controlled police and the Republican-controlled Office of the Attorney General would make the proper calls. In my opinion, I believe that the attorney general and the state police made the right calls in every instance. But my view was not shared by many partisan Democrats.

In that political climate, when thousands and thousands of people were offering condolences to Joe Biden, were they reading from an accident report? No, they were saying how sorry they were because Neilia and Amy died at the hands of a drunken driver, a speeding driver, an impaired driver, etc.

Joe Biden heard those statements thousands of times in his weakest moments

And I'm not new to the investigation of auto accidents and what it takes to fairly charge a person with a crime in an accident case. I know how difficult it is to charge in a case where there are no apparent eyewitnesses other than the person who drove the striking vehicle.

You left out something that did not happen but could have happened. Joe Biden did not set out with vengeance in his heart to take a shot at the driver who drove the truck that hit and killed his wife and daughter and seriously injured his two sons.

He didn't send someone to scout the area around the scene of the deaths of his wife and daughter. He didn't hire a crime scene investigator in an effort to get a pound of flesh from the driver of the truck and/or the owner of the trucking company for whom he worked.

Joe Biden engaged no one to initiate a law suit which would have permitted his lawyers to cross examine the so-called "witnesses" mentioned in your article: the driver of the striking vehicle, the owner of the trucking company and the police officers. Nor did he take the opportunity to bring in his own accident reconstruction experts.

Here's something else you didn't consider and left out. In 1972 Limestone Road was a two lane road, not the expansive highway it is today. Its speed limit then was 40 miles per hour or less. Twenty feet of skid marks may prove a vehicle to be speeding, depending on the weight of the vehicle and the conditions of the roadway at the time of the accident. So would the fact that the Biden vehicle was propelled 150 feet from the point of impact. Finally, in 1972, unlike today, blood tests of drivers in fatal accidents were not mandatory. Then, according to your article, after a two-day review by the attorney general, the truck driver was cleared.

You should have left this Times news article alone. It was not necessary for you to try to crush Joe Biden's heart by telling him what's in the recesses of his mind and memory.

Nor was it necessary to seek to validate a portion of a paragraph in a book you wrote. However, it may be that by writing this thoughtless article you could generate enough interest among Biden foes to pay for the production of your book.

In the weeks following the accident, Joe Biden heard a thousand versions of the cause of the deaths of his dear wife, Neilia and daughter, Amy. With respect to Joe Biden's statements today as to what happened, of course, he was not there. He is saying what was told to him by others when he was at the lowest point in his life.

Joe Biden always says what he believes to be true.

Lawrence M. Sullivan
Delaware Public Defender

Just another political hack job to save some face for Biden.

The prosecutor at the time, now a judge, was a neighbor and friend of Biden's at the time of this accident. He still considers Biden a firend.

He worked closely with police on this case and says that alcohol was absolutely not a factor.

But you'd rather think that he sided with the out of state truck driver, whom he didn't know, over his friend and neighbor????

No. He, and the police, did what was right. They investigated this horrible tragedy to its logical conclusion: Alcohol was not a factor and the cause of the crash was the negligence of Biden's wife. Which likely makes it harder to accept their deaths. But to say the truck driver was drunk, Biden makes the situation much worse.

When looking up some of this stuff, I found several "trucker" discussion boards. I think it's safe to say Biden and Obama have forfeited a good deal of the commercial motor carrier vote.

 

[MAKmom]

The driver was drinking at lunch. That was the story that was going around. By 1972 standards he was not "drunk" But I bet today he would have been charged with a DUI. You can not have 2 drinks & drive anymore.

 

[TCPluto]

The driver was drinking at lunch. That was the story that was going around. By 1972 standards he was not "drunk" But I bet today he would have been charged with a DUI. You can not have 2 drinks & drive anymore.

That's all it was, a story. As in, not true, then or now. Just as the judge, then the prosecutor (who was also Biden's neighbor).

I'm not saying you can't get arrested for drunk driving after having just two drinks. But I am saying that it would be a bad arrest, because you wouldn't be drunk. Not under any states statues.

 

[JennaTX]

God forbid we actually decide this election on issues. I could give a big crap about whether the guy who killed Biden's wife and daughter was drunk. I could also care less about Palin's brood.

I do care about healthcare, the economy, the Taliban and moving this country forward out of the rut we are in and will cast my vote accordingly.

A voice of reason!

 

[TCPluto]

A voice of reason!

I agree with Suzy's post. But it does make one question the integrity of Biden when he does this with this particular tragedy. Is nothing off limits for him?

 

[JennaTX]

A motor vehicle accident that resulted in deaths would definitely have been taken seriously in 1972, particularly if alcohol was involved. If he really believed at the time that alcohol was involved and there was evidence to that effect, I don't think he would have ignored that. Most victims families would have pressed the prosecutor to file charges, even back in the "dark ages" of the 70's.

Fact: The driver wasn't charged.
Fact: The driver wasn't convicted.
Fact: Biden just recently said that the driver 'drank his lunch'.

So can you please post the FACT about the driver's breathalyzer? Also the FACT of blood taken from the driver?

 

[JennaTX]

I agree with Suzy's post. But it does make one question the integrity of Biden when he does this with this particular tragedy. Is nothing off limits for him?

I think the integrity of all candidates should be considered, and that nothing should be off limits for any candidate.

If you are choosing to run for one of the highest offices in the country, everything you do, say and believe in should be available to the public..IMO.