Anyone else's public school student asked to sign a chastity pledge at school?

[sandy6879]

THis past Sunday, I read an article in our paper that stated that in order to recieve federal funding for Sex Education, the state school districts have to teach Abstinence-Only curriculum.

If they choose to teach something other than Abstinence Only, they lose all their funding, so a lot of states are simply turning down the funding from the beginning since Abstinence Only education has been shown to be ineffective.

It could be that Texas is receiving the funding from the federal government and HAS to teach that program in order to continue to receive the money (I'm not sure, I didn't go into detail as to which states are accepting the money and which are not, I'm sure that could be found on the internet though).

In terms of this, I would NOT be happy if this was presented to my daughter. I am very open with educating her on all aspects of sex education, including abstinence and safety. I fully feel that kids need to have all the information available to them so no matter which choice they make they have the knowledge to make decisions. I also want an open line of communication so that if there is something that needs to be discussed, she comes to me. I don't think it's the schools place to teach only one viewpoint. Give the facts, yes, but don't educate them from one standpoint and not balance it out with ALL the information kids need.

 

[jodifla]

THis past Sunday, I read an article in our paper that stated that in order to recieve federal funding for Sex Education, the state school districts have to teach Abstinence-Only curriculum.

If they choose to teach something other than Abstinence Only, they lose all their funding, so a lot of states are simply turning down the funding from the beginning since Abstinence Only education has been shown to be ineffective.

It could be that Texas is receiving the funding from the federal government and HAS to teach that program in order to continue to receive the money (I'm not sure, I didn't go into detail as to which states are accepting the money and which are not, I'm sure that could be found on the internet though).

.

Thank you for bringing up this important point.

And WHO is the federal mandate dictated by? The Bush lunatics and the REPUBLICAN PARTY, which is being run by religious fanatical right wingers.

Wanna see a meaningful difference?

Vote for the Democrats, folks.

You're getting exactly what you begged for when you put Bush in office.

 

[salmoneous]

So what the schools want kids to try to stay sexually pure until marriage.

I don't really think that is something a school should care about, do you?

Besides whether they sign it or not it probably wont make that much of a difference in their decision to wait ot not!

Then why have them sign it? Teaching kids to keep their promises is imporant too. Should we really encourage them to sign something a whole lot of them won't be able to keep?

 

[KatheeME]

Okay, taking a deep breath and chaning into my flameproof undies ... I have only read the first post, but are you serious? This is a PUBLIC school in the US? Teaching abstinence???? Please don't tell me it's abstinence only. And where does the school have permission to hand out chastity pledges??????? Whatever happened to separation of Church and State in Texas? It's a good thing I didn't send my dds to school in Texas, THEY would have never survived! Geesh!

Okay, now I am going to go back into lurkdom, and read the posts, hoping I can bite my tongue, but I don't make any promises! lol

 

[ducklite]

Thank you for bringing up this important point.

And WHO is the federal mandate dictated by? The Bush lunatics and the REPUBLICAN PARTY, which is being run by religious fanatical right wingers.

Wanna see a meaningful difference?

Vote for the Democrats, folks.

You're getting exactly what you begged for when you put Bush in office.

I voted for the other guy. I think it was YOUR COUNTY who managed to put Bush in.

 

[jodifla]

I voted for the other guy. I think it was YOUR COUNTY who managed to put Bush in.

What can I say? Theresa LaPore can't design a decent ballot. It's pretty much her fault -- and the Supreme Court's -- that Bush is in office, IMO.

We knew there was trouble early that day, when the newspaper started getting panicked calls saying, "I think I voted for Pat Buchanan!"

But everybody who votes Republican should be well aware that this is exactly what they are voting for -- the religious right's very narrow viewpoints to be mandated for everybody.

 

[Passions71203]

What can I say? Theresa LaPore can't design a decent ballot. It's pretty much her fault -- and the Supreme Court's -- that Bush is in office, IMO.

We knew there was trouble early that day, when the newspaper started getting panicked calls saying, "I think I voted for Pat Buchanan!"

But everybody who votes Republican should be well aware that this is exactly what they are voting for -- the religious right's very narrow viewpoints to be mandated for everybody.

<~~~~ Count me in as part of the far right...

 

[jodifla]

<~~~~ Count me in as part of the far right...

And you think you think it's right to inflict your values on me?

 

[Passions71203]

And you think you think it's right to inflict your values on me?

Nope, but do you think it is your right to inflict your left sided values on me?

 

[Passions71203]

What can I say? Theresa LaPore can't design a decent ballot. It's pretty much her fault -- and the Supreme Court's -- that Bush is in office, IMO.

We knew there was trouble early that day, when the newspaper started getting panicked calls saying, "I think I voted for Pat Buchanan!"

But everybody who votes Republican should be well aware that this is exactly what they are voting for -- the religious right's very narrow viewpoints to be mandated for everybody.

 

[chobie]

Nope, but do you think it is your right to inflict your left sided values on me?

What left sided values are being inflicted on you? Teaching kids to "stay pure until marriage" is a value --teaching kids about the facts of birth control are not teaching values.

 

[Passions71203]

What left sided values are being inflicted on you? Teaching kids to "stay pure until marriage" is a value --teaching kids about the facts of birth control are not teaching values.

If JodiFLA can ask the question, why can't I?
Thank goodness that we all live in the USA where we can decide what to believe and who to vote for...

 

[sandy6879]

Well let's ask this one then -

why should the federal government be able to give money to states that teach abstinence only but refuse to fund sex education programs that offer all the information?

It seems to me that the government is trying to censor what factual information should be taught in schools. IMHO, this is a scary slope to be on. Facts are facts and schools should be presenting ALL the facts to their students - not just the ones that the White House wants them to hear.

 

[Passions71203]

Well let's ask this one then -

why should the federal government be able to give money to states that teach abstinence only but refuse to fund sex education programs that offer all the information?

They should not be able to

 

[kt_mom]

I find it hard to believe that only extreme religious fanatics want their 12 year olds to refrain from sex. At least for a little while.

I don't see the big deal in this. No, I doubt that anyone actually believes that this pledge will keep these children virgins until their wedding nights. But it may make a few of them think, at least for a couple more years. I suppose it could have been worded as being until they are in a commited relationship, but at 12, 13, 14 years old they usually believe that whoever they are crushing on/going with is the love of their life. They have no idea what a "commited relationship is".

Its not like they were asked to sign some kind of legal document. Its no different than signing a pledge not to drink and drive on prom night.

I think that sex education should focus on abstinence but also give older kids the information they need regarding safe sex practices as well. But I really think that we should be at least encouraging our kids to wait until they are more mature and in a committed relationship. I don't think that is a religous thing so much as a common sense thing.

So many people are so scared of having someone else's "religion" pushed on them that we tend to forget common sense. We don't want our 12 year olds running around having sex whether it be safe sex or not. We don't want 12 year olds having any kind of sex. They are too young to understand what a real commited relationship is, much less anything about sex and what all it really involves. And they are definitly not going to come to a parent or teacher or anyone else and ask for help getting protection or anything like that. They might go to their friends, but what good is that going to do. So do we then want to hand out these items to 12 year olds.

No one is going to be completely happy with how this is handled in schools. Whichever way it goes someone is going to be offended. Who gets to decide who has to be offended? Personally I prefer that they start with a more conservative view and those who want to go in depth further with their kids can. That way my child is encouraged to wait, hopefully as long as possible and when you get your kids home you can tell them you don't care who they sleep with as long as their safe about it. (because I think that's what kids hear). But I would like my daughter to wait as long as I can get her to wait.

 

[Kath2003]

I find it hard to believe that only extreme religious fanatics want their 12 year olds to refrain from sex. At least for a little while.

I don't see the big deal in this. No, I doubt that anyone actually believes that this pledge will keep these children virgins until their wedding nights. But it may make a few of them think, at least for a couple more years. I suppose it could have been worded as being until they are in a commited relationship, but at 12, 13, 14 years old they usually believe that whoever they are crushing on/going with is the love of their life. They have no idea what a "commited relationship is".

Exactly. So how can you ask them to sign a pledge about something they are not considered legally, morally, or emotionally able to take responsibility for?

Its not like they were asked to sign some kind of legal document. Its no different than signing a pledge not to drink and drive on prom night.

Only that those who sign that pledge know what they're getting into. They are not signing a document which could affect the rest of their life. They can drive, legally. Most probably know that there is pressure to drink. It is for one night, and it is a practical document - you can just call a cab. I don't see the point in it, but the people that sign it are able to comprehend the scale of what they're signing.

So what is the point of the abstinance pledge? The students aren't fully able to understand what they're signing, so it's not a document you can wave back in their face when they're 17, in a stable relationship and want to lose their virginity to their partner. Who at 17 cares about something they said at 12 when they didn't know what the hormones felt like, when they didn't know what it was like to be in a stable relationship? If it is not entirely pointless, it's only point is guilt - to make those who sign it and eventually disobey it feel ashamed of their actions. And I'm sorry but I do not want teenagers to feel guilty for having feelings and emotions that are perfectly normal. I want them to think carefully before they act and make the decisions that are informed and emotionally sound - this pledge doesn't facilitate this.

So many people are so scared of having someone else's "religion" pushed on them that we tend to forget common sense. We don't want our 12 year olds running around having sex whether it be safe sex or not. We don't want 12 year olds having any kind of sex. They are too young to understand what a real commited relationship is, much less anything about sex and what all it really involves. And they are definitly not going to come to a parent or teacher or anyone else and ask for help getting protection or anything like that. They might go to their friends, but what good is that going to do. So do we then want to hand out these items to 12 year olds.

So why give 12 years old abstinence education? Lie you said, they are too young to understand. And sadly there ARE 12-year-olds who DO have sex and for this minority, the lines of communication need to be open. Freely discussing contraception and safe sex, as well as abstinance, is the only way to ensure that all children are as safe as possible.

No one is going to be completely happy with how this is handled in schools. Whichever way it goes someone is going to be offended. Who gets to decide who has to be offended? Personally I prefer that they start with a more conservative view and those who want to go in depth further with their kids can. That way my child is encouraged to wait, hopefully as long as possible and when you get your kids home you can tell them you don't care who they sleep with as long as their safe about it. (because I think that's what kids hear). But I would like my daughter to wait as long as I can get her to wait.

The point is: if you care that much about your daughters virginity, you have 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, less the 180 days they're in school for 7 hours a year, to instil these values. For the children who don't get their parents instilling their values in them still need to know how to have sex safely (including abstinance). For those taught extreme values, they still need to know the other side of the story. If your kid disobeys your wishes, either you didn't get your views across clearly enough, they were going to disobey you anyway OR they simply made up their own mind. But at least this way you cannot say that they did not know all the options available to them.

And I really resent that when "you get your kids home you can tell them you don't care who they sleep with as long as they're safe about it". NO ONE advocates that. There is a difference between "not caring" and "believing your child is going to grow up into an adult and make their own informed, well-thought-out decisions".

 

[kt_mom]

Exactly. So how can you ask them to sign a pledge about something they are not considered legally, morally, or emotionally able to take responsibility for?



Only that those who sign that pledge know what they're getting into. They are not signing a document which could affect the rest of their life. They can drive, legally. Most probably know that there is pressure to drink. It is for one night, and it is a practical document - you can just call a cab. I don't see the point in it, but the people that sign it are able to comprehend the scale of what they're signing.

So what is the point of the abstinance pledge? The students aren't fully able to understand what they're signing, so it's not a document you can wave back in their face when they're 17, in a stable relationship and want to lose their virginity to their partner. Who at 17 cares about something they said at 12 when they didn't know what the hormones felt like, when they didn't know what it was like to be in a stable relationship? If it is not entirely pointless, it's only point is guilt - to make those who sign it and eventually disobey it feel ashamed of their actions. And I'm sorry but I do not want teenagers to feel guilty for having feelings and emotions that are perfectly normal. I want them to think carefully before they act and make the decisions that are informed and emotionally sound - this pledge doesn't facilitate this.



So why give 12 years old abstinence education? Lie you said, they are too young to understand. And sadly there ARE 12-year-olds who DO have sex and for this minority, the lines of communication need to be open. Freely discussing contraception and safe sex, as well as abstinance, is the only way to ensure that all children are as safe as possible.



The point is: if you care that much about your daughters virginity, you have 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, less the 180 days they're in school for 7 hours a year, to instil these values. For the children who don't get their parents instilling their values in them still need to know how to have sex safely (including abstinance). For those taught extreme values, they still need to know the other side of the story. If your kid disobeys your wishes, either you didn't get your views across clearly enough, they were going to disobey you anyway OR they simply made up their own mind. But at least this way you cannot say that they did not know all the options available to them.

And I really resent that when "you get your kids home you can tell them you don't care who they sleep with as long as they're safe about it". NO ONE advocates that. There is a difference between "not caring" and "believing your child is going to grow up into an adult and make their own informed, well-thought-out decisions".

I think at 12 years old if you give kids a bunch of options for safe sex and leave out the abstinence they are going to take that as a green light to have sex. That is what my last comment was about.

If I have all that time to explain to my kids my feelings on the subject don't you have the same opportunity to go over safe sex practices with your children?

I don't see how signing this plege will "affect the rest of their lives". But it may deter a 12 year old from having sex. I'm not talking about 15 16 and 17 year old kids. But 12 year olds. I think the only sex education 12 year old needs to be getting is abstinence. That's just my opinion though. My child will go to a private Christian school and this will not be an issue for me. They will teach abstinence. I will supplement with what I want at home but not at 12 years old.

I guess the way I feel about it is this, I don't think there is anyone that would stand up and say, "I don't want my kids to abstain from sex while they are in highschool." Most parents, I hope, don't want their teenagers running around having sex. So teaching them to abstain at such a young age is not a "bad" thing. I would hope that most people could agree on that. So start there and then you can supplement at home with whatever you want. But once you fill my childs head with all this "sex education" its done.

Growing up my reason for believing in abstinence was for religious reasons. Although that is not why I want my daughter to follow that. I want her to abstain becasue its safer for her both physically and emotionally. What is wrong with teaching our kids that?

 

[NMAmy]

I think at 12 years old if you give kids a bunch of options for safe sex and leave out the abstinence they are going to take that as a green light to have sex. That is what my last comment was about.

I don't think anyone here has recommended leaving abstinence out entirely. What I believe is that kids should also learn everything there is to know about sex. And, yes, at 12 or even younger. Kids listen to you when they're younger and internalize what you're saying without the eye rolling you get with tweens and teens.

I personally don't want my child being one of those middle school girls who believes a boy who tells her that other acts that do not include sex are not really sexual acts because she'll still be a virgin. I want my child to know that she CAN get pregnant the first time she has sex. I want her to know what a condom looks like and how to use it correctly if she needs to.

I don't run around telling my dd that it's okay to have sex no matter her age. I tell her if she waits it will be better for HER--she'll be able to handle it emotionally and physically. But I want her to have all the facts and be comfortable talking about it no matter what happens. And you don't get that kind of information in an abstinence ONLY class. And that's unrealistic and naive.

 

[Kath2003]

I think at 12 years old if you give kids a bunch of options for safe sex and leave out the abstinence they are going to take that as a green light to have sex. That is what my last comment was about.

But no one has ever advocated removing abstinance. Even if you leave out the fact that abstinance is mentioned in every sex education program as the only 100% failsafe way of preventing pregnancy and STDs, every good program also includes emotional and spiritual dimensions which largely include avoiding peer pressure and waiting until you are ready.

If I have all that time to explain to my kids my feelings on the subject don't you have the same opportunity to go over safe sex practices with your children?

We all know there are parents who do not approach the topic of sex with their children in any shape or form. No, it's not the right thing to do by their children - but it happens.

I don't see how signing this plege will "affect the rest of their lives". But it may deter a 12 year old from having sex. I'm not talking about 15 16 and 17 year old kids. But 12 year olds. I think the only sex education 12 year old needs to be getting is abstinence. That's just my opinion though. My child will go to a private Christian school and this will not be an issue for me. They will teach abstinence. I will supplement with what I want at home but not at 12 years old.

They are signing a pledge which is potentially a commitment until the end of their life should they never get married. Conversely to you, I think that the earlier we start discussing abstinance and safe sex with children, the more chance we have of keeping them safe (emotionally and physically) - either by not having sex, or by having sex safely. Communication is the key here - lines need to be open from an early age. Sex shouldn't be taught as something "wrong" and not to be engaged with; it should be taught as an aspect of life which, whilst it can be fulfilling, should be thought about carefully and approached cautiously and in an informed manner.

I guess the way I feel about it is this, I don't think there is anyone that would stand up and say, "I don't want my kids to abstain from sex while they are in highschool." Most parents, I hope, don't want their teenagers running around having sex. So teaching them to abstain at such a young age is not a "bad" thing. I would hope that most people could agree on that. So start there and then you can supplement at home with whatever you want. But once you fill my childs head with all this "sex education" its done.

In my opinion, it IS a bad thing. 12 year olds ARE hitting puberty and in the next few years of their life they are going to be experiencing a variety of urges, hormones and emotions surrounding sex. We need to educate children on how to cope with these emotions, dispelling myths, and EDUCATING them about sex, rather than pretending it's something that isn't to be discussed!

Growing up my reason for believing in abstinence was for religious reasons. Although that is not why I want my daughter to follow that. I want her to abstain becasue its safer for her both physically and emotionally. What is wrong with teaching our kids that?

Absolutely nothing. What is wrong is teaching them only that. I'm sorry OP but statistically, your daughter stands a very, very slim chance of making it to marriage without having sex - so she needs to know what to do if she does decide to have sex outside of marriage, and how to protect herself physically and emotionally. Not every parent is comfortable discussing safe sex options with their child, and it is the role of public school to ensure that the people who pass through their doors leave as educated individuals - and this includes their personal, social and sexual education.

Plus there ARE people who don't want the message that "sex is for within marriage only" being portrayed to their children because they're not values they hold. NO parent would object to their child being told the advantages of abstinance; NO parent would object to that always being taught as the "default" option - but most of them I would hope also want the "but if you do make the decision that this is the right time and the right person for you to become sexually active with, here's some information about the consequences and how you can protect yourself from the negatives."

 

[daisax]

I not saying that they should drink and drive, but rather that this type of agreement doesn't really carry a lot of weight for many people.

I would want my children to have enough respect for their word of honor and written pledges that they don't make them under coersion. And I damn sure would expect my public school system to not take the position of coercing any kind of pledge out of children. Smacks too much of totalitarian governments (of both left and right) indoctrinating their youth.

Teach them facts. Teach them biology. Teach them that abstinence is the best guarantee of staying unpregnant and uninfected... but that that also means abstinence from sexual acts other than intercourse, and that despite what the current teen cultural norms are, oral sex is sex and can result in some major nasty ramifications for one's life. Take the top 20 myths that teens tell each other ("You can't get pregnant when..." etc.) and flat out refute them so that when their friend/boyfriend tells them different, they know better.

So what the schools want kids to try to stay sexually pure until marriage. Why is that such a horrible thing?

There's no such thing as what "schools" want. There are always people behind the "schools" with their own agendas, and it's best to know what they are, benign or not. In a case like this I can easily see both sides of this issue taking exception with the pledge as a matter of serious boundary overstepping on the part of the schools.