Anyone else's public school student asked to sign a chastity pledge at school?

[snicklette]

This has not been asked of the kids in our district. I believe even with a vow of abstinence, kids still need to be knowledgeable. I am positive without actually researching it that if they do/did a study the pledge would be an overall failure anyway. The serious test for many of these kids wont happen until they are much much older than 12! I will communicate with my children and teach them rather than make them sign petitions that they may not fulfill.

 

[sanctus]

In light of the fact that the vast majority of children who sign these pledges then go on to have premarital sex, I'm against them. I'm also against them because it attaches a stigma of shame to having premarital sex that a) I don't agree with, and b) makes them less likely to take steps to protect themselves.

I really don't like the idea of teaching my children to just go along with whatever the school or any other authority tells them to do. Especially when it's a moral issue. Whatever happened to making up your own mind?

I'd rather they sign a pledge to abstain from sex until they have discussed the decision with a trusted adult.

 

[KristaTX]

I try to make this point to evangelical friends and acquaintances of mine who want prayer in public schools, etc....If their kids went to a muslim-majority public school, would those prayers in school be just fine with them?

This is the problem I have with people who get so upset when the 10 commandments or the like are taken down from public buildings, etc. And while it may seem that the majority of Christians are aghast when a governmental agency decides to do something like that, they aren't. Just as in any situation, it's usually a loud but very small minority complaining. But as ugly as it is, we also must remember they have the right to throw their hissy fits as long as they don't break any laws.

And actually if Muslim students decided to have their own event such as "see you at the pole", I doubt that most Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc. would have a problem with it as long as it was a peaceful thing. Likewise, if there was some Hindu celebration going on, most people wouldn't bat an eye either. I think more people are tolerant than are not, even if they disagree about things. Sure there would be a noisy few who might cause a ruckus, but most people would go on about their own business.

If the school, however, was officially involved in something to do with a less-practiced religion for the area, more people probably would express concerns than they do with things that might be related to the common religions of the area. That is simply because even if they think about it being odd or unfair to the other religions when their own religion seems to be more accepted, it's just not worth their energy to do anything about it as long as it is something relatively harmless such as the school choir singing Christmas songs.

But this pledge thing is different. It's not really a religious issue. It's just a ridiculous thing to do.

 

[IMGONNABE40!]

I don't know if this has been discussed, but religion aside, there are practical reasons to want kids to refrain from sex.

No matter one's feeling on sex outside of the marriage, most would agree that sexual relationships are best postponed until after high school. Forget all of the emotional trauma, sex very often leads to pregancy and or disease.
Pregnancy is likely a leading cause of drop out amongst teen girls. I don't think I need to comment on a school's interest in preventing the spread of disease amonst students.

One step further, the schools are also involved in educating the offspring of the children having children. I volunteered in an education program in our school district for moms. It was not uncommon for the moms of the kindergarten kids to be early 20s...or still teens. I am not saying that young people don't make good parents, but it was clear from the moms I worked with that most of them lacked the emotional maturity to be parents.

So, without regard to religious affiliation, it is in the school's intereset that kids remain abstinate.

 

[jodifla]

I don't know if this has been discussed, but religion aside, there are practical reasons to want kids to refrain from sex.

No matter one's feeling on sex outside of the marriage, most would agree that sexual relationships are best postponed until after high school. Forget all of the emotional trauma, sex very often leads to pregancy and or disease.
Pregnancy is likely a leading cause of drop out amongst teen girls. I don't think I need to comment on a school's interest in preventing the spread of disease amonst students.

One step further, the schools are also involved in educating the offspring of the children having children. I volunteered in an education program in our school district for moms. It was not uncommon for the moms of the kindergarten kids to be early 20s...or still teens. I am not saying that young people don't make good parents, but it was clear from the moms I worked with that most of them lacked the emotional maturity to be parents.

So, without regard to religious affiliation, it is in the school's intereset that kids remain abstinate.

But this pledge, if I'm recalling correctly all these many pages ago, wanted kids to promise to stay celibate until they MARRIED.

Not until out of high school, which probably many (most of us) think is a good idea.

And the married part is almost certainly tied to religion.

 

[goofygirl]

So essentially the kids should be asked to make a promise with no intention or expectation that they keep it? I prefer any kid of mine learn that they not make promises unless they full intend and are capable of keeping them.

If a chastity pledge isn't hurting anyone and is no big deal, then I suppose you wouldn't object to a school using peer pressure to coerce kids into signing an "unchastity" pledge as well right? Since I and others on this thread indicated that we might prefer our children NOT be chaste until marriage, there will be no objection to ALL the children in a public school being told how great it is to not be chaste on their wedding night and that they should pledge to have sex before then, right?

(Actually there was one poster on this thread who told a story about having been asked to sign one of these pledges. It clearly did hurt her because when she was one of the only students who refused to do so the rest of the class assumed she must be promiscuous.)

Let's be realistic- a school is not going to ask anyone to sign an UNchasity pledge! That's like a school asking kids to sign an "I'm Going to Try Drugs" pledge! It's NEVER going to happen. So why even address something that's never even going to happen?

Peer pressure happens in schools whether there's chastity pledges or not. If the poster mentioned hadn't been picked on for not signing the pledge, she would have been picked on for something else because that's how kids are. Kids can be mean to each other. They can be vicious over nothing. I remember being teased and tormented for wearing the "wrong" clothes to school. it happens.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Let's be realistic- a school is not going to ask anyone to sign an UNchasity pledge! That's like a school asking kids to sign an "I'm Going to Try Drugs" pledge! It's NEVER going to happen. So why even address something that's never even going to happen?
.

See I don't like these comparisons of sex to drugs ..No wonder we have so many sexual hangups in this society... All this does is make sex on par with drugs in kids minds. In other words sex = bad ,dirty etc.

 

[goofygirl]

So essentially the kids should be asked to make a promise with no intention or expectation that they keep it? I prefer any kid of mine learn that they not make promises unless they full intend and are capable of keeping them.

No, that's not what I said. If they make the promise to stay chaste- fine. If they break the promise say 5 or 10 years from now, it won't be the end of the world, and I doubt anyone will remember that a promise was ever made in the first place.

Maybe some will keep the promise, maybe they won't. Only time will tell.

 

[themarquis]

On a *slightly* tangential topic, does anyone else find it disturbing that most people in the US claim to want schools to teach abstinence; yet almost everyone in the US fails to be abstinent? I was just checking out some numbers, and it seems like the stats are saying something like 60-something percent are sexually active in the teenage years, and 95scared1: ) percent of people have non-marital sex sometime in their lifetime.

I am personally not pro-abstinence, so I can be pretty certain that I am not hypocritical about abstinence myself. However, for people who are pro-abstinence, what gives? Do many people simply deny that they themselves had sex outside of marriage? Do they admit that they did but think it was so terrible that god forbid their children do? How do they make sense of the fact that non-marital sex seems to, even across cultures, be a normal part of human behavior (at least in a statistical sense)? And finally, do they really believe that a pro-abstinance education will truly be effective, given what we know about people's *actual* behavior?

When I had sex ed as an early teen, we were asked to "interview" a parent about various sex-related questions. I asked my mother (not even a religious woman!) about how she felt about pre-marital sex, and she reacted with shock and horror. I was incredulous, and said -- "but mom, didn't you and dad do it before you were married? (they were together for years before they married and even drove cross-country together in a Hippie bus . Seriously.) No way, she replied. Then I asked what she and dad had done during all that time driving across the country ... "We played a lot of cards", she replied

Turns out, when I interviewed Dad a few minutes later, I found out they had done a lot more than just play cards

 

[missypie]

Yes, the pledge was to stay chaste until marriage.

 

[goofygirl]

See I don't like these comparisons of sex to drugs ..No wonder we have so many sexual hangups in this society... All this does is make sex on par with drugs in kids minds. In other words sex = bad ,dirty etc.

It's not "dirty" but it is inappropriate to be having sex while you are still a child.

I must say I am pretty surprised at how many people here seem to think to think that teens *not* having sex is a BAD idea. I never thought chastity would be viewed so negatively.

 

[themarquis]

It's not "dirty" but it is inappropriate to be having sex while you are still a child.

I must say I am pretty surprised at how many people here seem to think to think that teens *not* having sex is a BAD idea. I never thought chastity would be viewed so negatively.

Honestly, I'm one of those people who don't think it's "inappropriate" for teens to have sex. I believe that it's probably not a *great* idea for a lot of teens, especially younger ones. They may not be emotionally mature enough to handle the strong feelings an intimate relationship creates. They may not be emotionally mature enough to be able to make sure they use protection, know how to handle being pressured by someone to have sex, etc.

But that doesn't make it across-the-board bad or inappropriate for teens to be sexually active. It depends on the teen and the individual circumstance.

I also don't agree with you that teens are "children" and therefore should not be having sex. The whole concept of the teenage years is that it is a transitional period into adulthood. Teens are at a point in maturity where they are capable of doing a lot of adult things (drive, go places by themselves, go shopping, make decisions about their future, etc.). They don't always do these things really well, but they do need to do them so that one day they can get better at them and they can be independent. I believe that for some young people, sex could be one of these things, although it doesn't have to be. Readiness is not set in stone -- it really depends on the teen.

I understand that there are a lot of different viewpoints on this issue, and I do respect yours. However, I do think you need to know that not everyone in the US is on the same "page" on this issue -- there are plenty of people like myself, and plenty like you. That is why most of us are saying it is not an appropriate topic to be aggressively pushed in school.

 

[NMAmy]

It's not "dirty" but it is inappropriate to be having sex while you are still a child.

I must say I am pretty surprised at how many people here seem to think to think that teens *not* having sex is a BAD idea. I never thought chastity would be viewed so negatively.

I don't think anyone here has said that they would want their teen to have sex. In a perfect world, that would be fantastic if all kids waited until they were out of high school, at least.

What I am saying is that I want my child to be prepared and know all her options--not just abstinence. I want her to know how to prevent STD's and pregnancy. I don't want to just tell her "Don't do it." I tell her the reasons why it is to her advantage to wait until she's out of high school and make sure she's in a stable relationship with another mature person. That does not have to be in a marriage.

I also do not want my 12 year old signing a chastity pledge when she has no clue how she'll be feeling in later years and is manipulated into doing so by an authority figure that tells her she has to wait until she's married.

Chastity is not viewed negatively. However, not giving a child all the facts they need is ridiculously naive. And I think a lot of parents who think their child is too young to learn about birth control may be raising their own grandchild in a few years.

 

[JennyMominRI]

It's not "dirty" but it is inappropriate to be having sex while you are still a child.

I must say I am pretty surprised at how many people here seem to think to think that teens *not* having sex is a BAD idea. I never thought chastity would be viewed so negatively.

I don't think chastity among teens is bad..I think it's great,and I hope my teens do this...However, this pledge is until marriage and that I don't agree with

 

[goofygirl]

Teens are at a point in maturity where they are capable of doing a lot of adult things (drive, go places by themselves, go shopping, make decisions about their future, etc.). They don't always do these things really well, but they do need to do them so that one day they can get better at them and they can be independent. I believe that for some young people, sex could be one of these things, although it doesn't have to be

Just because they *can* have sex doesn't mean they should. I don't think teens need to be having sex to "gain independence", there's many other ways you can do that. Ways that won't give you a pregnancy or STDs and other serious problems.

 

[eclectics]

Sure there would be a noisy few who might cause a ruckus, but most people would go on about their own business.

I agree, most folks are very tolerant. But unfortunately, the "noisy few" are usually the people who have some sort of power or influence over what occurs and what doesn't.

 

[themarquis]

Just because they *can* have sex doesn't mean they should. I don't think teens need to be having sex to "gain independence", there's many other ways you can do that. Ways that won't give you a pregnancy or STDs and other serious problems.

I didn't really write that so that we could debate it, although that's fine, too. I wanted to explain that people have a variety of perspectives about teen sex and premarital sex. You can think that some of these perspectives are wrong all you want -- I won't stop you The point is just that public schools shouldn't be in the business of aggressively coercing kids to believe a certain viewpoint about sex when there is no consensus in the US about it. They shouldn't be in the business of aggressively coercing kids to believe any particular viewpoint that is hotly contested in the US and strongly linked to particular faith-based beliefs about the world.

By the way, I believe that many teens can handle having sex, even if it is an activity that could possibly have dangerous side-effects (i.e., pregnancy) in the same way that many teens can handle driving a car, even though it can also have dangerous side-effects (i.e., death). It **may** be the case that driving is in fact more dangerous than sex, in which case, I might just encourage my kid to do the latter, rather than the former

In any case, it's none of your beeswax how I talk to my kids about sex and whether or not I encourage, forbid, or remain completely neutral about them having it. Just as it's not any of the school's business.

 

[missypie]

I predict that DD will have forgotten all about the pledge before this thread runs its course!

 

[smartestnumber5]

Let's be realistic- a school is not going to ask anyone to sign an UNchasity pledge! That's like a school asking kids to sign an "I'm Going to Try Drugs" pledge! It's NEVER going to happen. So why even address something that's never even going to happen?

Of course it will never happen--that's my point.

Why will it not happen? Because people who did not share those values would freak the heck out. They would never stand for their children being encouraged to do things that go against their values. So by the same token, why shouldn't those of us who don't value chastity until marriage freak out that our children are being encouraged to do something that goes against our values?

I'm just pointing out the inconsistency amongst those who think there's nothing with coercing kids into signing a chastity til marriage pledge--it's perfectly fine to push values on kids when it's their values, but can you imagine the uproar if it were my values being pushed on kids?

(For the record I have no interest in coercing children into signing any pledge saying that they will have sex before getting married. What they do with their bodies is up to them and is none of my business. Personally I think it would be extremely foolish to get married without having sex and I find the whole idea prudish and unfun. But those are my values. There is no reason for me to push them on anybody else. All I would like is the same respect in return.)

 

[goofygirl]

I also do not want my 12 year old signing a chastity pledge when she has no clue how she'll be feeling in later years and is manipulated into doing so by an authority figure that tells her she has to wait until she's married.

Who's being manipulated? Signing the pledge is a CHOICE isn't it? Nobody's forcing her hand. This is not forcing any kind of behavior, it's just a suggestion. Just as teaching contraception does not force teens to have sex, a pledge won't force a teen NOT to have sex.

BTW- I am not in favor of "abstinence only" education. I am for abstinence AND contraception education.

Sure, she can make the promise now and feel differently later. People break promises all the time. How many people here once promised to love and cherish someone forever only to divorce them later down the road? People change, promises get broken, but does that mean we should never make promises at all?