What can you tell me about Boy Scouts/Tiger Cubs

[JennyMominRI]

I don't understand why people get so heated and try to force beliefs on others. If the Boy Scout Organization believes that it is wrong to be gay, then that's what they believe, REGARDLESS of whether or not you believe they are right. If you don't agree, fine, but you can't force them to believe otherwise. They should not be forced to put someone in a leadership position if they don't agree with their lifestyle. Same thing with gender. They want it to be all boys. It's what they want, what they were created for. If you don't like it, find a co-ed program, and if there isn't one, create one. I'm sure there are plenty of other groups that are more inclusive in their beliefs. I wouldn't put my child in a Jewish run club, where it was all Jewish people who participated and DEMANDED that they teach that Jesus was the true Messiah. How dumb is that?? You cannot expect people to throw out their belief system just b/c you are offended. If you are offended, then don't join that group, and find one that doesn't offend you.
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I don't see anyone saying the BSA don't have a right to hold that opinion..They also have the right as a private organiztion , to make regulations based on their beliefs... I also have a right to say my family will have no part of it

 

[nuke]

Personally, I find Scouting a very positive experience for my boys.

Do I agree with all their policies? NO! But as Colson has said earlier, I understand why those policies are in place.

I have found that if I looked at all the policies I don't agree with and made them "deal breakers" my children and myself would not be involved with many organized activities at all. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree on some things and this is one of those moments for me.

I agree with your last paragraph. I don't agree with their stand on homosexuality and I really don't understand it either. I would much rather have a gay scout leader than one that is abrasive and a jerk. But then our pack hasn't had to deal with the issue at all.

As far as God, the scouts require a belief in a higher power. That is just one of their tenets. I guess if you don't believe than this isn't the group for you just like you wouldn't be signing yourself up for the local baptist church if you didn't belive in their teachings.

Scouting has been great for my son and my husband. Sometimes I think DH likes it more than DS. They get so much quality time together and that extends to the family is well. It's a great program.

 

[Colson39]

As far as God, the scouts require a belief in a higher power. That is just one of their tenets. I guess if you don't believe than this isn't the group for you just like you wouldn't be signing yourself up for the local baptist church if you didn't belive in their teachings.

Just to clarify, it is not required. They don't go around asking if you believe in God, nor do they make you take tests to validate your beliefs. I didn't believe in God when I was in the scouts and it never once was an issue. I have known multiple scouts that do not believe in God.

The problem is, a couple people wanted to join the Scouts that didn't believe in God, and they wanted the Boy Scouts to come out and tell them, "It's OK if you don't believe in God", instead of just keeping it to themselves. Had they done what all the rest of us do, just keep it to ourselves, they would have probably had a great experience in the Scouts. I did participate in various religious activities when I was in the scouts, and guess what, I learned a lot and had a great time doing it. Never once did anyone try to force me to believe in anything.

Of course, then the above mentioned decided to sue the Boy Scouts. Go figure Kind of makes ya think....

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I don't understand why people get so heated and try to force beliefs on others. If the Boy Scout Organization believes that it is wrong to be gay, then that's what they believe, REGARDLESS of whether or not you believe they are right. If you don't agree, fine, but you can't force them to believe otherwise.

Who here is trying to force their beliefs on others? No one has said they want to force the BSA to change their policy, just that they disagree with the policy, and wouldn't join the organization because they would feel hypocritical.

I'm sorry to see that so many people now view the Boy Scouts as just a gay-bashing anti-aethiest organization.

No one has said anything of the kind. It's been repeatedly stressed that it's the national policy people disagree with, whether or not it's noticeable at the pack/den level and despite the many good things that Boy Scouts do.

I think your love of scouting is making you a little overly defensive about this.

We understand that you had a great experience and we realize that it can be a great experience for other kids, that's precisely why it's a subject for discussion. Do the good points outweigh the bad? Some feel they do, some don't, and everyone needs to make that decision for themselves, based on how strongly they feel about the subject.

 

[pearlieq]

Just to clarify, it is not required. They don't go around asking if you believe in God, nor do they make you take tests to validate your beliefs.

So when you say:

‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’

How is that not taking a religious oath? How are you supposed to swear to do your duty to God when you don't belive in God?

 

[summerrluvv]

Scouts if a fantastic program for kids. Especially those that don't excel in other organized activities, such as sports. My son started as a Tiger and is now a Bear. I have NEVER heard a single mention of sexual preference at any meeting, social event, etc. They don't teach the children to dislike gay people. My ex husband is a member of the committee and it's never mentioned there either.

 

[Colson39]

So when you say:

‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’

How is that not taking a religious oath? How are you supposed to swear to do your duty to God when you don't belive in God?

Lots of people fight and die for this country and also have to make the same swear to God during the Pledge of Allegiance. God is present everywhere in America, it's just how it is.

This is an organization, not a cult. I didn't take those words to mean a lifelong guideline back then, nor do I now. This is basically just a "club" for young men, most of them are not trying to become religious leaders

I think your love of scouting is making you a little overly defensive about this.

Actually, all I'm doing is trying to clarify some misinformation in this thread, from someone that actually was in the Boy Scouts. I have already said it is a national policy, and one I don't agree with. Some of the comments however have made it seems like local Boy Scout troops require certain things that they do not.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Lots of people fight and die for this country and also have to make the same swear to God during the Pledge of Allegiance. God is present everywhere in America, it's just how it is.

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People joining the military don't recite the Pledge of allegiance to joing... They take the oath of Enlistment which ends in so help me G-d.. Although my friend , a pagan said So Help Me Godess in 1989

 

[Colson39]

People joining the military don't recite the Pledge of allegiance to joing... They take the oath of Enlistment which ends in so help me G-d.. Although my friend , a pagan said So Help Me Godess in 1989

I never said they had to say the Pledge of Allegiance to join, I'm just stating that it is common in the military to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Although as you mentioned, they are still mentioning God in their enlistment

 

[JennyMominRI]

I never said they had to say the Pledge of Allegiance to join, I'm just stating that it is common in the military.

Although as you mentioned, they are still mentioning God in their enlistment

Actually they aren't always mentioning G-d.. They are sometimes mentioning Godess, as in my friends case...I doubt the Boy scouts are letting anyone pledge to the Godess

 

[Colson39]

Actually they aren't always mentioning G-d.. They are sometimes mentioning Godess, as in my friends case...I doubt the Boy scouts are letting anyone pledge to the Godess

I'm going to view those both as the same thing

 

[JennyMominRI]

I'm going to view those both as the same thing

I can assure you that the Godess that my friend worships is not the same as the Christian Jesus

 

[Colson39]

Never said it was...anyways, no need to argue semantics. Back to the Camping forum

 

[NHdisneylover]

Okay, here are two points which I do not think has been covered yet (but I admit to scanning some posts and not always reading carefully):

1. I do think that very rarely does the national policy against homosexuality come up in local troops or councils (these are Girl Scouts terms I do not know the BS equivalants). But, by joining and paying dues to this organization we would be tacitly supporting something our family considers to be a huge travisty of justice. I feel it is no different than if an organization were to have a stated policy against allowing a certain ethnic group to belong. Just because I do not have to see it does not mean I can ignore it. As Edmund Burke summed it up well, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to keep silent."

2. When DD was 5 (earlier I posted 6, but I have thought it through and realized he was 5) and we decided "no way" to BSA I also thought about 'what if he turns out to be gay?' How terrible would it be if he starts scouts as a young boy and this becomes a HUGE part of his life and his identity (as it does for many boys) and then as he ages he realizes he is gay? It is hard enough for a teen to go through that realization in our soceity without either having to quite something he loves and has spent a good part of his life in or else having to hide who he is in that entire aspect of his life (for fear of being kicked out--as is policy). I will not knowingly place any child in that position.

 

[MerryPoppins]

Proud mom of an Eagle Scout checking in. DH and I started out as leaders when DS was a Cub and DH continued through Boy Scouts. We are NOT anti-gay. In fact, some of our good friends are gay. I am not comfortable with the BSA stand on homosexuality, but I decided long ago that I wouldn't let it stand in the way of my son's scouting experience since you hear nothing about this on the local level.

Scouting was very, very good for DS. He learned a lot. He became a confident leader that knows how to look a you in the eye and shake your hand firmly. He also is very caring and compassionate. He says he hopes his generation (and himself as an Eagle) can make a difference in acceptance of gays in our country. I hope someday the stand will be different, but I'm not at all sorry we made the decision we did.

 

[Pigeon]

People joining the military don't recite the Pledge of allegiance to joing... They take the oath of Enlistment which ends in so help me G-d.. Although my friend , a pagan said So Help Me Godess in 1989

And atheists or other people who don't swear oaths can simply affirm with no reference to God.

 

[SadieDog]

I didn't see atheists or agnostics in your list. Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.
?

This is just what I thought when I read the list

 

[Beth76]

Scouting was very, very good for DS. He learned a lot. He became a confident leader that knows how to look a you in the eye and shake your hand firmly. He also is very caring and compassionate. He says he hopes his generation (and himself as an Eagle) can make a difference in acceptance of gays in our country. I hope someday the stand will be different, but I'm not at all sorry we made the decision we did.

Two different people told me you can't change something that you're not a part of. So that is a very good point.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Two different people told me you can't change something that you're not a part of. So that is a very good point.

Even if that's true, you're also giving your money to an organization that has these rules (and I do understand your position since I had the same decision to make a year ago).

 

[Beth76]

Even if that's true, you're also giving your money to an organization that has these rules (and I do understand your position since I had the same decision to make a year ago).

Yes I know that as well. Believe me, I'm not making this decision lightly.

I would never have brought this up with my son. But he came home yesterday wanting to do it; a lot of his friends are doing it. I can't very well tell him "I'm sorry honey, but these people are homophobic". We're going to go to the meeting tonight and see how this pack is. I don't even know if it's something that we can fit into our schedule right now anyway.