What can you tell me about Boy Scouts/Tiger Cubs

[Pigeon]

Even if that's true, you're also giving your money to an organization that has these rules (and I do understand your position since I had the same decision to make a year ago).

Yup.

Unless you are planning to assume some high office within the BSA, just sending your non-homophobic child to meetings isn't going to change the organization from within.

I would never have brought this up with my son. But he came home yesterday wanting to do it; a lot of his friends are doing it. I can't very well tell him "I'm sorry honey, but these people are homophobic".

But you could certainly say, "I'm sorry, honey, but the organization practices discrimination against certain groups of people. We don't believe in discrimination in this house, so you'll have to play soccer instead."

That's exactly what we did with one of our kids when a similar situation arose, and she understood perfectly.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Yup.



But you could certainly say, "I'm sorry, honey, but the organization practices discrimination against certain groups of people. We don't believe in discrimination in this house, so you'll have to play soccer instead."

.

I just told my kids that the Boy scouts discriminate against gay people..
They know gay people, they understood what that meant

 

[Geoff_M]

They are sometimes mentioning Godess, as in my friends case...I doubt the Boy scouts are letting anyone pledge to the Godess

Actually, I think you would be wrong. The impression given here is that the BSA demands that members affirm a belief in the Christian view of God or a belief in monotheism. The BSA uses the term "God" in the general sense because it's a lot shorter than launching into what qualifies as an acceptable belief. All that is required is the belief in a spiritual power higher than yourself.... you can pick the name you like. It can be "God", or "Buddha" (yeah, I know, technically not a "god" in the traditional sense), Vishnu, "The Great Spirit", or anything else you'd like.

 

[Colson39]

I personally would let my kid choose what they wanted to be a part of, not force them because of my own beliefs. Unless of course they chose something that taught them hate, fear, loathing, or non-acceptance, which the Boy Scouts don't do.

 

[Geoff_M]

Here's another...see if you can follow this for an example of ridiculous rules and policies from the BSA:

The boys had to pass a swim test in order to swim in the deep end of the pool at summer camp. It was a very difficult test, too. Even when they passed and were qualified as a "swimmer" they couldn't swim in the deep end without being with a buddy who was also a certified "swimmer." Okaaay. Well, the pool is also manned by a certified lifeguard, a host of adult leaders and staff, AND....the pool was only about twice as big as our backyard pool, maybe smaller. Good Lord, a bomb would have to drop on the pool for anyone to drown.

At the end of the school year two years ago a class at one of our schools had an "end of the year" pool party at the school's pool. There were teachers, parents, and hired lifeguards there monitor the swimming. The number of swimmers was also below the pools posted capacity.... and one of the students was spotted lifeless on the bottom. He had drowned and no one noticed. The police investigated and found that all of the supervision rules and policies had been followed and there was no other factors to blame like loud music, horse play, or anything else. Had the party been using the BSA's Safe Swim Defense (with its "buddy" requirement), the accident would likely have been avoided. I personally don't think it's a "ridiculous" system to use.

On a side note, the whole organization is pretty darn sexist if you think about it. They don't allow girls...how many places in society is THAT okay?

Actually, I believe that the Girl Scouts have a hand in that. In a lot of countries the boy and girl scouting programs are operated by the same national scouting organization (such as "Scouts Canada"). However, the US is one of the countries that have had their girls and boys programs develop in separate organizations and remain so (though they both belong to the same international scouting organization). I was told by a professional scouter in the 1980's that the BSA and GSUSA have an agreement that neither group would operate a co-ed programs for youth under a certain age. The GSUSA didn't want the BSA "raiding" their membership or vice versa.

As noted elsewhere, girls 14 and up may join BSA Venture units. Also, as of late 1980's women have been able to serve in all BSA leadership positions and are no longer restricted to roles such as Den Mother or Assistant Scoutmaster.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Yes I know that as well. Believe me, I'm not making this decision lightly.

I would never have brought this up with my son. But he came home yesterday wanting to do it; a lot of his friends are doing it. I can't very well tell him "I'm sorry honey, but these people are homophobic". We're going to go to the meeting tonight and see how this pack is. I don't even know if it's something that we can fit into our schedule right now anyway.

With happened with us is about a year before my son would have been in Tiger Cubs we drove past the campground that my older sons had camped at when they were in Cub Scouts. I made some off-handed comment to my husband wondering if we were ready to start all over again with scouts. He stated that Jake was not going to do scouts...end of discussion. I let the subject go for awhile and brought it back up before Jake went into first grade. I was really torn because I do like a lot of the skills and socializing that the kids learn through scouts. It's not a clear-cut decision for some people.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Yes I know that as well. Believe me, I'm not making this decision lightly.

I would never have brought this up with my son. But he came home yesterday wanting to do it; a lot of his friends are doing it. I can't very well tell him "I'm sorry honey, but these people are homophobic". We're going to go to the meeting tonight and see how this pack is. I don't even know if it's something that we can fit into our schedule right now anyway.

We told our son (who was younger than yours is now though also starting first) that the organization had rules that were really unfair to gay people. We made sure he knew that the chances were none of his friends even knew this and htat just because they were boy scouts did not mean they or their families were homophobic. However, since this is such an important issue to us we cannot be a part of this organization. We also let him know if he REALLY wanted similar experiences there were otehr programs out there we would participate in such as the Y program, Campfire kids, etc. It turned out he really didn't even particularly care about scouts, it was just what everyone was talking about that week. It was really pretty much a non issue. So, depending on what you choose to do, it can be explained even to a young child in ways that make sense and do not make their friends out to be the bad guy (or their friends' parents). Personally, (and I do not think you were really meaning to come off this way, please do not think I am attacking you--I applaud you for exploring what this means to your family and making an informed decision) I never what the kids to do ANYTHING mainly because it is what all their friends are doing. I do not want to send the message that joining in the crowd for the sake of doing so is a good idea as all too soon that could lead to some really dangerous behaviours.

 

[Hedy]

There's a poster on the boards (I forget who) whose signature indicates that a)she's a lesbian and b)she's very close to her high ranking boy scout nephews. I wonder if she'll see this thread-she might have an interesting perspective.

 

[Michie]

Beth I have not read this entire thread, I know your boys are still grade school age, but when your boys become older look into the Demolays, both of my boys loved that organization.

 

[U2_rocks!]

Actually, I think you would be wrong. The impression given here is that the BSA demands that members affirm a belief in the Christian view of God or a belief in monotheism. The BSA uses the term "God" in the general sense because it's a lot shorter than launching into what qualifies as an acceptable belief. All that is required is the belief in a spiritual power higher than yourself.... you can pick the name you like. It can be "God", or "Buddha" (yeah, I know, technically not a "god" in the traditional sense), Vishnu, "The Great Spirit", or anything else you'd like.

This is how our Scout Association is in Barbados. I'm pretty much agnostic, but I've just become Akela of our boy scout pack. When you say "God", you can mean anything you want by it, it is meant to be general - we were told that in our training course. As an anostic, I am open to the possibility of a higher power; I also think the power could be within us rather than outside of us. God, to me, means power, whatever it's source. I did feel a bit odd with that at first, but I'm getting used to having my own definition now when I say "God".

 

[DebD4T]

I didn't see atheists or agnostics in your list. Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

The list showed what religions offered a religious award, why would an atheist offer one? These awards are not mandatory. Just an extra medal for their uniform.

 

[Pigeon]

The list showed what religions offered a religious award, why would an atheist offer one?

Critical thinking skills come to mind.

 

[Beth76]

Well some of you will be disappointed, but I caved and signed up. I was a little aggravated because they wanted us to sign up tonight. They didn't want us to wait. DH doesn't even know; he went to the Rams game right after work. I don't know how he'll react. It was only $53 to sign up, so if it doesn't work out, we're not out too much. They kept talking about all these things that they do and my son was so excited. And I don't have to go camping.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Well some of you will be disappointed, but I caved and signed up. I was a little aggravated because they wanted us to sign up tonight. They didn't want us to wait. DH doesn't even know; he went to the Rams game right after work. I don't know how he'll react. It was only $53 to sign up, so if it doesn't work out, we're not out too much. They kept talking about all these things that they do and my son was so excited. And I don't have to go camping.

If people are disappointed so be it, but you have to make the decision that you are comfortable with. Teach your son your beliefs and don't worry about what others think. And this is from someone who's glad that they didn't end up signing up for scouts.

 

[mom2boys]

Both of my boys have been in Scouting since they were Tigers. Both are now in Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts was a lot of fun for both of them. Boys Scouts has taught them so much. They are much more confidient and capable because of scouting. My boys' troop motto is Esto Ver - "become a man". Scouting really is teaching them skills they will use into adulthood. My 12 & 13 year old are capable of doing things on their own that many grown men don't know how to do.

As for the "gay thing", it's a non-issue and even discussed. There are safegaurds in place to protect both the boys and the leaders.

 

[tngramma]

Here is another Eagle Scout Mom. I believe you DS's will learn many life skills in the Scouts. No one is going to cram religion of any kind down his throat. Scouting is not mandatory for any young man. It is a decision to be made by his parents. If you do not find it conforms to your beliefs then by all means find something else for your DS to particiapate in. Scouts are taught not to treat one person differently than the other. Hopefully you will not teach your son to not look down on the boys who do become Scouts and enjoy it.

Scouting is not fore eveyone as is sports, rock collecting etc.

 

[Colson39]

Glad to see you went with your gut and signed him up for the Scouts. He's going to love it, and you are starting your young man on a really great path. Who knows where he'll end up, but you're giving him some great tools to work with. Also hope that you got some more information in places other than a Disney message board, as I stated before

Quote:
Originally Posted by DebD4T
The list showed what religions offered a religious award, why would an atheist offer one?

Critical thinking skills come to mind.

Uhmm, the poster actually had a very good point. Why would you need a religious award for an aetheist? Aetheism is not a religion last I checked (unless for some reason no one ever told me to go to aetheist church...lol). Perhaps you should critically think about it again

Unsubscribing since the decision has been made, enjoy the Scouts!!

 

[LukenDC]

Well some of you will be disappointed, but I caved and signed up.

I am not at all disappointed and I know that it was a tough decision for you. Perhaps you could discuss your concerns with the Scout leaders.

 

[talulabelle]

Critical thinking skills come to mind.

Hmmm, I am critically thinking right now about just what could have caused that big bang............hmmm I wonder how what ever caused it came into existence........