This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[ronandannette]

I don't know how many cameras they had, but since it was docked I wonder if the port has video surveillance too?

Well, it really doesn't matter how many cameras or how many perspectives were recorded. NONE OF THEM will show anything at all that would realistically put responsibility on Royal Caribbean. There simply isn't anything.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

At the risk of getting piled on, I think that while the grandfather is primarily at fault but RCCL also have some legal responsibility here. The window was open on the pool deck.

In addition, after seeing a video on YouTube (

) I could see why the grandfather might have thought the window was closed. The video was taken while in port and very other window is open, creating a pattern. The family had just boarded hours before and may not have been aware that all windows were tinted.

That could be true, if a photo of the ship that day didn't show that every other window wasn't open. (See Pea-n-Me's post below.) It appears he walked up to the only window that was open in that immediate area.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ana-toddler-fell-150ft-death-cruise-ship.html

 

[luvsJack]

LOOK BACK!!! I stated on POST #464 and #468 that I don't blame them for not watching the video. I wouldn't either.

Yes, he will have access to the tape once a lawsuit is filed. But he cannot get it right now. NBC alluded to him not being able to see it as if he should currently have access. It was dubious information.

Actually he could see it now if they allowed him to. If they don’t allow him to, he will have to subpoena it to see it. It’s not an automatic thing.

So he very well could have requested to see it and the cruise line or the investigators either haven’t answered or said no. In which case, no one is lying about anything.

 

[fly girl]

At the risk of getting piled on, I think that while the grandfather is primarily at fault but RCCL also have some legal responsibility here. The window was open on the pool deck.

In addition, after seeing a video on YouTube (

) I could see why the grandfather might have thought the window was closed. The video was taken while in port and very other window is open, creating a pattern. The family had just boarded hours before and may not have been aware that all windows were tinted.

I am not going to "pile" on you. But from footage of that day that I have seen and read about, the windows weren't in a pattern with one open, one closed. Even in that video you posted you can see that only small portions are in a pattern, but not the whole length of the pool area. And when you are on that ship (like I have been) I could clearly tell which ones were open. Not just by tint, but by the breeze and by the clarity. (The windows no matter how hard they clean them have some spray residue.)

Granted, Grandpa was older than me and only on that ship for a short time. But that doesn't excuse the fact he placed his granddaughter on a ledge that wasn't meant for sitting/standing. If she wanted to bang on the glass, she could've done that at her level. And that ledge has a gap of about 6" from the widow. Knowing how little she was, I cannot comprehend how he momentarily let go of her sitting/standing there with that space. Even if he thought glass was there (as I believe he did) that gap between the ledge and widow is big enough for her to fall through and get hurt.

IDK. It was a horrible mistake Grandpa made. My heart hurts for him.

 

[sam_gordon]

I didn’t mean just you. I meant the criticism of everything they said.

What does them taking or not taking the video with them have anything to do with anything?

The thing is, the cruise line is not to blame. But they aren’t necessarily lying either.

Your and other’s complaint was that the animation didn’t show the chairs and area between the play area and the windows. Now you are complaining that the picture, video or whatever doesnt show the windows. Maybe that’s why they used both. But either way make up your mind.

Make up my mind about what?? There is plenty of video & pictures of the pool area. Plus, I've been on that ship.

Regarding the video, you said since RCI offered the parents the opportunity to view the video, they should allow the lawyer to watch it. What you're forgetting is the video (and the parents) was in SJ. The lawyer was in Miami.

I never said they were lying. I said they were spinning the story. You said they weren't. How you can believe that is beyond me.

Their story is the grandfather thought there was glass where there wasn't. Even if there WAS glass, why do you put a toddler on a RAILING (which is round IIRC, not a flat space) 3-4' off the ground?

I'm glad you agree the cruise line is not to blame.

 

[sam_gordon]

Even if he thought glass was there (as I believe he did) that gap between the ledge and widow is big enough for her to fall through and get hurt.

Or fall backwards onto the deck.

 

[mnrose]

Or fall backwards onto the deck.

That's the part I don't get. EVEN if he thought the window was closed, why would you stand a child on that rail and LET GO? Seriously? Even the fall off down to the floor, or up against the glass is going to possibly cause injury to the child. It was a dumb thing to do EVEN IF the window wasn't open. Just plain stupid. The kind of stupid mistake that people make when they get comfortable or are outside their normal environment.

 

[fly girl]

Actually he could see it now if they allowed him to. If they don’t allow him to, he will have to subpoena it to see it. It’s not an automatic thing.

So he very well could have requested to see it and the cruise line or the investigators either haven’t answered or said no. In which case, no one is lying about anything.

I never said anyone was lying. Just that NBC failed to report that even though the lawyer has repeatedly requested it, he cannot view it until the investigation is complete. I think leaving out the legal aspect isn't fair representation of the full story.

 

[luvsJack]

Make up my mind about what?? There is plenty of video & pictures of the pool area. Plus, I've been on that ship.

Regarding the video, you said since RCI offered the parents the opportunity to view the video, they should allow the lawyer to watch it. What you're forgetting is the video (and the parents) was in SJ. The lawyer was in Miami.

I never said they were lying. I said they were spinning the story. You said they weren't. How you can believe that is beyond me.

Their story is the grandfather thought there was glass where there wasn't. Even if there WAS glass, why do you put a toddler on a RAILING (which is round IIRC, not a flat space) 3-4' off the ground?

I'm glad you agree the cruise line is not to blame.

First the complaint was that the animation did not show the chairs, when I pointed out the picture directly after the animation did indeed show the chairs, you changed to the picture not showing the windows. The picture or video showed what everyone was complaing was missing. So then you found something g wrong with the video.

 

[bcwife76]

The part that I keep going back to that sticks out is his 'excuse' I lifted her up to bang on the glass like she did at her brothers' hockey games. Except you were not AT a hockey game, you were on a cruise ship. 11 decks up. No need to EVER bang on a glass window 11 decks up, much less lift her onto a railing to get her even higher to bang on glass!!!

He must be beside himself with grief, I cannot even begin to imagine what this family (all of them) are going through, but no I don't blame the cruise line one bit in this case.

 

[Jennasis]

I think about my father and how devastated he'd be if he had done this to his grandchild, whom he adores. He must be on suicide watch.

 

[lanejudy]

The picture or video showed what everyone was complaing was missing.

Actually, the animation plus the picture or video shown on the interview doesn’t accurately depict the situation. Neither shows the distance one would traverse from the kids’ H2O Zone to the bank of windows at the side of the ship, nor all the obstacles (tables, chairs, loungers) one would move through along that route. It gives the impression the windows are closer and an active toddler could easily dash to the windows on their own. The television show did not research enough to report that objectively.

I can’t imagine their pain. But I do believe they are grasping at “blame” to avoid having to face the fact grandpa made such a fatal mistake.

 

[Dznypal]

That video made it pretty obvious what windows were open. Some had a lighter greenish tint but you could see which ones were open. Also I don’t know why the parents would want to go on tv. I’d want to go into hiding where I couldn’t be found. If the lawyer was insisting I’m sure they could have said no. Still he’s the one that’s going to in their eyes get some cash. Horrible to say but you have to wonder

 

[sam_gordon]

First the complaint was that the animation did not show the chairs, when I pointed out the picture directly after the animation did indeed show the chairs, you changed to the picture not showing the windows. The picture or video showed what everyone was complaing was missing. So then you found something g wrong with the video.

NEITHER is an accurate representation of what you see on deck. You know that's possible, right? That neither element shows what people need to see. The animation didn't have detail, and the video (it wasn't a picture) shown on the Today show was so quick you couldn't tell what was going on.

On the other hand, look at the "Deck 11 Tour" video at post 559. About 30 seconds in, they walk out to the pool deck. and walk down the aisle near the windows. There are plenty of loungers, tables, and chairs between the aisle and the railing. They even walk up to an open window. THAT video is a good representation of what the pool deck is like. You can tell which windows are open, You can tell you actually have to make an attempt to get to them. You can see the distance between the railing and the window frame.

 

[mummabear]

The graphics showed open area, nothing obstructing it. WIDE OPEN, with no lounge chairs, no table & chairs - nothing. Which clearly isn't true. Also, it showed a ever so faint tint. Barely noticeable, nothing like the real thing.

It’s an obvious manipulation technique. The cruise line isn’t going to provide a public rebuttal so the family can present their narrative and spin it however they want.

And I just went back and looked. No railing in the computer images either. Very different than the real thing.

I would really respect RCL putting out a statement calling for higher journalistic standards.
The Todsy show has a responsibility to be providing accurate information, even if their story is biased (which it shouldnt be) they should at least have the integrity to be vetting information.as accurate.

I couldn't watch the video without weeping for the family.

I also can understand why they feel the desperate need to blame someone else. But the mother, as an attorney, should know better, especially if you are unwilling to see the video, you cannot proclaim fault.

I can see RCCL settling, but I think it really depends on what the video shows. It will all turn on whether it was reasonable for the grandfather to conclude that there was no glass, and all of the issues with the railing, etc will be brought up. Is it reasonable for the grandfather to stand a baby on a railing and let go even if there were glass there?

A jury will see the video if this goes to court. And I think that is more detrimental to the parents than it would be to RCCL.

I have said it before, RCL would it have offered the family to see the video willingly if it didnt absolve them (RCL)

 

[John VN]

That's the part I don't get. EVEN if he thought the window was closed, why would you stand a child on that rail and LET GO? Seriously? Even the fall off down to the floor, or up against the glass is going to possibly cause injury to the child. It was a dumb thing to do EVEN IF the window wasn't open. Just plain stupid. The kind of stupid mistake that people make when they get comfortable or are outside their normal environment.

IMO, a BRAIN PHART

 

[Hikergirl]

OK after seeing that video I really can't believe he didn't know the window was open. It is pretty clear that the actual window has a tint. How did it not occur to him that where he was standing her up was different than the others
Seeing how it is all set up, with loungers and the railing it just doesn't look like a hazard for anyone, let alone a toddler not tall enough to reach the window, UNLESS you deliberately put yourself at risk by climbing on or over the railing.

 

[luvsJack]

NEITHER is an accurate representation of what you see on deck. You know that's possible, right? That neither element shows what people need to see. The animation didn't have detail, and the video (it wasn't a picture) shown on the Today show was so quick you couldn't tell what was going on.

On the other hand, look at the "Deck 11 Tour" video at post 559. About 30 seconds in, they walk out to the pool deck. and walk down the aisle near the windows. There are plenty of loungers, tables, and chairs between the aisle and the railing. They even walk up to an open window. THAT video is a good representation of what the pool deck is like. You can tell which windows are open, You can tell you actually have to make an attempt to get to them. You can see the distance between the railing and the window frame.

You are totally going around my point. The only thing that was said was about the chairs not being in the animation. One thing. That was it. And yet there was a video right afterwards that showed exactly what everyone was complaining about and you then changed the complaint.

Was the video on the Today show not the same ship? Do they change the ship between voyages?

Besides wasn’t the complaint about the other video that it didn’t show the windows the way everyone says they looked? Even though they do look that way in that video, they didn’t look that way on that particular day or some such.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

Not only do you not dangle a child out of a window, you don't even let a child near an open window.

YES you are so right. How big was this window? I have not been on a cruise ship in a while but the ones I have been on did not lend themselves to accidents or "play".

 

[DLgal]

That's the part I don't get. EVEN if he thought the window was closed, why would you stand a child on that rail and LET GO? Seriously? Even the fall off down to the floor, or up against the glass is going to possibly cause injury to the child. It was a dumb thing to do EVEN IF the window wasn't open. Just plain stupid. The kind of stupid mistake that people make when they get comfortable or are outside their normal environment.

This is why I don't believe this story at all. I can't imagine that anyone could intentionally do something that stupid with a toddler.

Plus, if that is what had actually happened, wouldn't the statement from the people who HAVE seen the video simply say that? But they didn't. They said "the video shows the grandfather rocking/swinging the child near an open window." Why wouldn't they have just said "the video shows the grandfather placing the child on the railing and then letting go of her briefly." Because it didn't happen that way.