This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[tarheelmjfan]

This is why I don't believe this story at all. I can't imagine that anyone could intentionally do something that stupid with a toddler.

Plus, if that is what had actually happened, wouldn't the statement from the people who HAVE seen the video simply say that? But they didn't. They said "the video shows the grandfather rocking/swinging the child near an open window." Why wouldn't they have just said "the video shows the grandfather placing the child on the railing and then letting go of her briefly." Because it didn't happen that way.

I don't believe their story, because they keep saying the GF didn't know the window was open. Yet, he took her to the only open window in that area.

As I've said many times, I really feel sorry for the GF. Their attempt to keep the story in the news is only bringing more scrutiny on him.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

From what I understand Gramps told the Puerto Rico police his version of how the accident happened. Then a shady lawyer gets involved and says, "NO, you're wrong. This is how it REALLY happened."

I have no doubt whatsoever that Daddy police officer and Mommy the former Prosecutor have complained and griped for years about defendants refusing to accept responsibility for their actions. Yet when one their family members effs up royally, they suddenly change their tune and look for someone else to blame.

Even worse is them trying to profit off the grandfather's negligence. So screw them and their grief.

 

[Guyton dis lover]

You are responsible for protecting your Children and your grand children. I work in an industrial plant with a very strong safety culture. I feel bad for the family and this tragedy will be with them forever. Please be aware of your surroundings. Threats can come from anything or anywhere at anytime. I see people do stupid things with children on their laps. Cutting grass on a riding lawn mower or tractor is a no no. Leaving a child or pet in hot car is just stupid. If you have power tools , firearms or sharp edge tools keep them under lock and key. If you have small children , dogs or cats check before you move your car. Be smart , be proactive and be safe. Never become overconfident. Check, check and check one more time and be aware of your your situation at all times.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Stress-leave would be recommended for verified mental health reasons and requires a TON of documentation by qualified professionals. You can't just call yourself in stressed. And it's not paid for by the employer exactly, it's a very, very common part of a benefits plan and falls under the category of "short-term disability". Workers without a benefits plan can apply for "sickness benefits" through our federal Employment Insurance program.

As I understand it, many Americans have benefit plans provided by their employers also. Do those policies not include short and/or long term disability coverage of any kind?

I had a coworker who was stressed about work and asked her family doctor for a note for stress leave for a month.
Got it no problem.
Union environment.
So no not a ton of documentation. Maybe difference in our employers or benefit provider.

Also know several people who got stress leave after loss of spouse. Just need doctors note.

 

[starry_solo]

I think they are going through the five stages of grief right now and haven't made it to the last stage.

 

[ronandannette]

I had a coworker who was stressed about work and asked her family doctor for a note for stress leave for a month.
Got it no problem.
Union environment.
So no not a ton of documentation. Maybe difference in our employers or benefit provider.

Also know several people who got stress leave after loss of spouse. Just need doctors note.

For sure, but the point I was trying to make for those who said they'd never heard of such a thing, is that medical verification is required. We can't just call ourselves in "stressed" for weeks or months at a time.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

From what I understand Gramps told the Puerto Rico police his version of how the accident happened. Then a shady lawyer gets involved and says, "NO, you're wrong. This is how it REALLY happened."

In some ways it reminds me of the scene in She-Devil movie towards the end.

One of the main characters (the cheating husband) got caught embezzling money from his clients. His lawyer says: "We can say a computer bug somehow crept into your system and made errors in these accounts." knowing full well that's not what happened.

 

[robinb]

That could be true, if a photo of the ship that day didn't show that every other window wasn't open. (See Pea-n-Me's post below.) It appears he walked up to the only window that was open in that immediate area.

I’ve seen that photo, but I have questions on how long after the accident it was taken. Other windows which may have been open may have been closed afterward. They could not close that window because it was part of the investigation. I think the video of many windows being open and closed is far more indicative of a port day.

 

[robinb]

From what I understand Gramps told the Puerto Rico police his version of how the accident happened. Then a shady lawyer gets involved and says, "NO, you're wrong. This is how it REALLY happened."

I have no doubt whatsoever that Daddy police officer and Mommy the former Prosecutor have complained and griped for years about defendants refusing to accept responsibility for their actions. Yet when one their family members effs up royally, they suddenly change their tune and look for someone else to blame.

Even worse is them trying to profit off the grandfather's negligence. So screw them and their grief.

“Screw them and their grief”. Really? And people “liked” that?!? Seriously?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I’ve seen that photo, but I have questions on how long after the accident it was taken. Other windows which may have been open may have been closed afterward. They could not close that window because it was part of the investigation. I think the video of many windows being open and closed is far more indicative of a port day.

You question whether or not the cruise line rushed to close the other windows knowing there was video showing the incident, but don't question the GF recognizing he was seeing a clear view of the outside, when there were many heavily tinted windows surrounding that window? Have you been on this cruise line & seen these windows?

 

[robinb]

You question whether or not the cruise line rushed to close the other windows knowing there was video showing the incident, but don't question the GF recognizing he was seeing a clear view of the outside, when there were many heavily tinted windows surrounding that window? Have you been on this cruise line & seen these windows?

Yes, I think the cruise line closed the other windows after the accident. It makes sense, doesn’t it? Not to cover their butts but to prevent another immediate accident.

Edited: it also makes no sense to me that only ONE window was open when the accident happened.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Yes, I think the cruise line closed the other windows after the accident. It makes sense, doesn’t it? Not to cover their butts but to prevent another immediate accident.

Edited: it also makes no sense to me that only ONE window was open when the accident happened.

There have been millions of people on these ships, without someone going out a window, but the cruise line is all of a sudden worried that another person is going out one of those windows the same day? I'm sorry, I can't follow that line of thought. That makes no sense to me at all.

 

[robinb]

There have been millions of people on these ships, without someone going out a window, but the cruise line is all of a sudden worried that another person is going out one of those windows the same day? I'm sorry, I can't follow that line of thought.

That’s fine. Those millions of people were not there right after an accident. I would be surprised to see an open window after a child just fell out of one so it makes sense to me that they would close the others.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

That’s fine. Those millions of people were not there right after an accident. I would be surprised to see an open window after a child just fell out of one so it makes sense to me that they would close the others.

You think someone would see a child fall out of a window, then decide to jump themselves? If anyone was going to be traumatized by an open window, it would have been the one the child fell from.

 

[CdnCarrie]

For sure, but the point I was trying to make for those who said they'd never heard of such a thing, is that medical verification is required. We can't just call ourselves in "stressed" for weeks or months at a time.

True. And not everyone has health benefits.

 

[robinb]

You think someone would see a child fall out of a window, then decide to jump themselves? If anyone was going to be traumatized by an open window, it would have been the one they child fell from.

And the pile on starts.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

And the pile on starts.

Who am I piling on? I'm simply saying millions of people have cruised on these ships, without going out a window. I believe the GF didn't mean to harm his GD. I feel horrible for him. That said, having seen these windows, I find it impossible to believe he didn't know the window was open. Am I supposed to deny what I feel is reality in order to support their cause?

FWIW, I really don't know what you mean by saying I'm piling on. It's not my intention to pile on anyone.

 

[mummabear]

At the risk of getting piled on, I think that while the grandfather is primarily at fault but RCCL also have some legal responsibility here. The window was open on the pool deck.

In addition, after seeing a video on YouTube (

) I could see why the grandfather might have thought the window was closed. The video was taken while in port and very other window is open, creating a pattern. The family had just boarded hours before and may not have been aware that all windows were tinted.

I don't think RCL has any legal responsibility, I still don't believe that once he was physically standing there it wouldnt have been obvious that it was open, but I can see your point about the possibility of a pattern making it look like the windows were different colours in a decorative fashion rather than open and closed from a distance.
But as another poster said, I still don't understand why he would put her standing (or sitting even) on a railing at adult waist height and let go, let go at all, but apparently before she had even reached out and had balance against the window????
Even if there had been a window there, she could have face planted right into it, then fallen down between the window and railing, hitting her head on the railing and landing on the floor, that's a good way to give an 18 month old concussion.
Whatever way you look at it, it sounds negligent.
Now maybe if he was holding her and she lunged unexpectedly, but that isnt even his story.

For sure, but the point I was trying to make for those who said they'd never heard of such a thing, is that medical verification is required. We can't just call ourselves in "stressed" for weeks or months at a time.

Possibly not in all cases, or I am just saying I was stressed definitely, but if it was common knowledge my dad had just accidentally killed my baby possibly not.

 

[sam_gordon]

And the pile on starts.

How does a single person (and until this post @tarheelmjfan has been the only one to reply to you) equate to a "pile on"?

 

[lanejudy]

That’s fine. Those millions of people were not there right after an accident. I would be surprised to see an open window after a child just fell out of one so it makes sense to me that they would close the others.

I can understand this reasoning, if RCCL closed the windows shortly after the incident. Not as much to prevent “jumpers” but the gawkers, at lest some of whom might lean out trying to get a better view of the police activity on the dock, accidentally or intentionally drop something, etc.

But I honestly don’t know when/by whom those other windows were closed. It may have been immediate, it may have been much later. As I recall, the pictures I saw of the investigators on deck with most windows closed was dark outside, nighttime, so some time later.