Re-sale gone wrong - Sellers lied - What do I do?

[KAT4DISNEY]

I'm not real quick to judge that the seller lied after my experience in selling. I had an existing reservation that I would not be keeping if the contract sold and stated so when I listed it with the broker. Having always heard that all reservations cancelled upon transfer (the reservation was for Nov) I did not want to cancel until the 10 day recind period was over either (I've had a couple of buyers back out on another contract)so I assumed I could just leave it and it would get cancelled. Well - Disney came back during reviewal and said that there was a point difference between the contract and the actual! And the broker had gotten the original points available directly from Disney, not from me. I had not been told I needed to cancel and the impression was given that I'm a lier per Disney.

 

[TisBit]

Personally, I would not continue with a contract with an owner who uses points after listing it for sale. What is to guarantee, even after an addendum and even a guarantee from DVD that the points you think you are getting are going to be there?

I don't think that using points after listing a contract is that bad....it is making sure it is updated that is the issue. These are timeshare contracts and they will often stay on the market for some time.

 

[Dean]

I also understand you can't force honesty but if the sellers lie then have to pay a fine to the broker which will then in turn pay back the buyers for the loss in points, it would help the sale go though. Effectively giving them some money back and not affecting the price of the sale as far as the paperwork is concerned.

But there's no way to force this to happen. It comes down to reasonable choices for the seller and broker and the fact that it's going to to unusual for a situation where anyone is going to pursue such issues through legal channels.

 

[disney11fan]

If you really have questions about DVC & RCI you should start your own new thread - this is not really the place for it.

or ? cleared thru vicki before posting. i diden't post anything wrong and i don't or won't start my own thread over this. please don't get picky over a non issue.i find this thread very interesting and the help given to anyone who might ask.

 

[vicki_c]

or ? cleared thru vicki before posting. i diden't post anything wrong and i don't or won't start my own thread over this. please don't get picky over a non issue.i find this thread very interesting and the help given to anyone who might ask.

I was trying to be helpful as it seems your questions are being lost in the shuffle here in this thread that was about a different topic. They would get more attention by themselves and you seemed to have some very specific and direct questions. I would have been glad to answer some myself I just didn't want to bog down this thread with a new topic (but apparently it's too late for that with this answer from me). But I'm sure someone will help you, it just won't be me.

 

[bytheblood]

If that were me, I would back-out altogether and not purchase. I would find another contract. But....that is just the way I roll. I personally would take that as a sign not to make the purchase.

 

[TisBit]

But there's no way to force this to happen. It comes down to reasonable choices for the seller and broker and the fact that it's going to to unusual for a situation where anyone is going to pursue such issues through legal channels.

Really, this is a huge anamoly....the only really sticking point about this situation vs others is the change in status of resales. Normally, renegotiating the deal would have no negative impact other than a delay in closing.

 

[Dean]

Really, this is a huge anamoly....the only really sticking point about this situation vs others is the change in status of resales. Normally, renegotiating the deal would have no negative impact other than a delay in closing.

My post was in response to rock_doctor's talking about forcing sellers to do things and providing penalties if they erred.
While I don't disagree with r_d in principle, it's simply not practical. As for the change itself being a big deal, personally, I don't think it is and I expected something along these lines years ago.

 

[JimMIA]

I don't think that using points after listing a contract is that bad....it is making sure it is updated that is the issue. These are timeshare contracts and they will often stay on the market for some time.

In Suebeelin's case, the seller used points twice -- once after listing, but before Suebeelin made an offer. That one I can excuse, although obviously either the seller or Fidelity dropped the ball in the change not being known. My guess is that was the seller's bad. But Suebellin had the option of withdrawing or modifying their offer, so no-harm, no-foul.

However, the second use of points occurred AFTER the seller accepted the offer and the contract was sent to ROFR -- and the buyer was not notified until the paperwork came back from Disney with different points. That's inexcusable, IMHO, and a clear case of malicious intent, if not outright fraud.

 

[JimMIA]

I understand, and i do agree Disney is not going to waver in the 3/20 deadline. If they do then they are opening themselves to tons of people arguing with them about their contracts. I also understand you can't force honesty but if the sellers lie then have to pay a fine to the broker which will then in turn pay back the buyers for the loss in points, it would help the sale go though. Effectively giving them some money back and not affecting the price of the sale as far as the paperwork is concerned.

Actually, that would be fraud. You would be reporting one set of facts to DVC for ROFR purposes, when in fact the effective price being paid for the contract would be less. It's the same thing as telling Disney you're paying $80 per point for the contract when, in fact, you're only really paying $70. That would be deliberately concealing material facts from Disney to ensure a benefit to the buyer, and potentially a loss to Disney. Bad idea.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't think that using points after listing a contract is that bad....it is making sure it is updated that is the issue. These are timeshare contracts and they will often stay on the market for some time.

I guess if someone has had a contract sit for months and decides to use it because of the delay, then the contract listing should be adjusted. The fact that it wasn't is still an issue for me because the seller chose not to let the broker know.

Also, my post was responding to the fact that they seller did use points after getting a signed contract and that is just wrong and therefore, I would never deal with an owner who does that.

I sold a contract with a reservation I wanted keptand simply listed it with a delayed closing. I found a buyer who was okay with waiting the 4 months to close.

 

[suebeelin]

I'm sorry I keep asking about what I would lose if I back out now... I signed an addendum. I guess I wasn't very clear.

In other words, I signed an addendum to the contract a few days ago agreeing to the decrease in points, in trade for the seller's payment of closing fees.

However, it didn't occur to me that this addendum may make my points a "post 3/20" contract. If this addendum makes my contract a post 3/20 contract, then I would want to back out.

Fidelity assures me that the original contract is valid if placed in front of Disney for ROFR pre 3/20, and the addendum is not going to affect the ownership status.

However, I do not trust Fidelity, and now the contract is in escrow. So I'm wondering what the repercussions would/will be.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm sorry I keep asking about what I would lose if I back out now... I signed an addendum. I guess I wasn't very clear.

In other words, I signed an addendum to the contract a few days ago agreeing to the decrease in points, in trade for the seller's payment of closing fees.

However, it didn't occur to me that this addendum may make my points a "post 3/20" contract. If this addendum makes my contract a post 3/20 contract, then I would want to back out.

Fidelity assures me that the original contract is valid if placed in front of Disney for ROFR pre 3/20, and the addendum is not going to affect the ownership status.

However, I do not trust Fidelity, and now the contract is in escrow. So I'm wondering what the repercussions would/will be.

At this point, you agreed to amend the orginal contract and unless it states that you have the right to back out if you lose the pre-3/20 status, then I think you would lose your deposit if you did.

I would not take the brokers "word" for it, but rather ask that Disney put it in writing for you. If you can not get that, and the benefits from a pre-3/20 contract are important, then you have to decide which is worth more--the benefits or the deposit.

Of course, the broker could be right and you could be fine, but again, unless I had it in writing from Disney, I would prepare myself for the possibility that they are wrong.

Good luck!

 

[Dean]

I'm sorry I keep asking about what I would lose if I back out now... I signed an addendum. I guess I wasn't very clear.

In other words, I signed an addendum to the contract a few days ago agreeing to the decrease in points, in trade for the seller's payment of closing fees.

However, it didn't occur to me that this addendum may make my points a "post 3/20" contract. If this addendum makes my contract a post 3/20 contract, then I would want to back out.

Fidelity assures me that the original contract is valid if placed in front of Disney for ROFR pre 3/20, and the addendum is not going to affect the ownership status.

However, I do not trust Fidelity, and now the contract is in escrow. So I'm wondering what the repercussions would/will be.

As long as they don't resubmit it, you may be OK. The question is going to be whether DVC looks the other way when it gets send to them for change of ownership. If they do, you're set. If they don't, you may have an issue. I'd get it in writing from Fidelity to cover 2 issues. That they warrant the 3/20 date and ability to have the contract transferred to you and that they will reverse the process if this isn't possible. Alternatively you could institute a dollar amount if this ends up being a restricted account.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm sorry I keep asking about what I would lose if I back out now... I signed an addendum. I guess I wasn't very clear.

In other words, I signed an addendum to the contract a few days ago agreeing to the decrease in points, in trade for the seller's payment of closing fees.

However, it didn't occur to me that this addendum may make my points a "post 3/20" contract. If this addendum makes my contract a post 3/20 contract, then I would want to back out.

Fidelity assures me that the original contract is valid if placed in front of Disney for ROFR pre 3/20, and the addendum is not going to affect the ownership status.

However, I do not trust Fidelity, and now the contract is in escrow. So I'm wondering what the repercussions would/will be.

I strongly suggest that you take a step back and really take an objective look at what you're involved in.

You are talking about closing on a purchase from a dishonest seller, based on verbal assurances from a broker you don't trust, for a contract you never agreed to buy, concealing the whole thing from Disney...and hoping it all turns out okay.

If that scenario makes sense to you, I think you really need to get some legal advice from an attorney in Florida with timeshare real estate law experience before you proceed any further. You are really heading into troubled waters.

 

[3girlsfun]

For what it's worth, I just wanted to echo what a couple of people have said. I would be running away from this contract! It makes me nervous just reading this.

Additionally, I must say that I am also in a very uncomfortable situation with Fidelity right now. I quit posting in this forum about it, bc I think people just got tired of it, and tired of my questions. But, a short summary. We are about 15 or so days into our ROFR waiting time period. I was told by Fidelity that they would request a point sheet from Disney 3 times, I am about certain it has never been done. We did this because we want the 2010 points banked before the deadline, bc, I am assuming in no way this will close in time for us to bank them by April 30th. The deposit has yet to be taken from my bank account (I would assume they would do this pretty much spot on when you submit your agreeance to the offer.), and no matter how many times I call or email, I get different answers every single time I talk with the brokers. I have asked the brokers to not contact my DH bc he simply has not been involved in the process, and I don't want anything to be "slide" under him since he isn't familiar with the entire process. (We discussed the decision together, I have just been dealing with the process.) When they do call me back (which is very rare), they will call me, if I don't answer, they call DH. Leave a message on his phone, never do they leave a message on my phone. I am just sitting back at this point and waiting on April 16th to see what happens.

I just can't see going through with a contract that is also bad bc you don't trust the middle man who is suppose to be helping you. Unless I had all this information you need in writing, no way I would move forward. I constantly think to myself, man, I wish I didn't get into this with these people I don't trust, so, I know how you feel. Your situation just seems a lot worse than mine at this point! All I have is a verbal, "yes, they banked the points, or at least, they gave me a confirmation that they did."

I don't know, I have hugs for you if this doesn't work out!

 

[sweetdana]

I'm sorry I keep asking about what I would lose if I back out now... I signed an addendum. I guess I wasn't very clear.

In other words, I signed an addendum to the contract a few days ago agreeing to the decrease in points, in trade for the seller's payment of closing fees.

However, it didn't occur to me that this addendum may make my points a "post 3/20" contract. If this addendum makes my contract a post 3/20 contract, then I would want to back out.

Fidelity assures me that the original contract is valid if placed in front of Disney for ROFR pre 3/20, and the addendum is not going to affect the ownership status.

However, I do not trust Fidelity, and now the contract is in escrow. So I'm wondering what the repercussions would/will be.

I believe you have 10 days from the adendum for a full refund. I would ask them for it in writing it will be considered before 03-20 or you want to cancel it. Since it is a new contract in FL realestate.. I assume you have 10 days from that date. G L. What a head ache for something that should be fun.

 

[suebeelin]

Thank you for your advice and sympathy. I really appreciate it.

I think Fidelity has been a bit sloppy and does not have the manpower to handle the volume that's been thrown at them. So the ball is dropping. Good luck with your contracts. Crossing my fingers for everyone out there that things will turn out well.

On our side, we've contacted Fidelity to get reassurances about our contract and original ownership rights. They gave us email assurance, but we want more.

We're technically supposed to close at the end next week. Have not decided what to do yet. We would prefer to have original ownership rights but we don't know whether we'll use the points for anything but DVC (and BWV most of the time, which is why we chose this home resort). Of course, we wanted a pre-3/20 contract for the "just in case".

I'll let you know what we decide. At the end of the day, we have to look at our contract and be objective as to whether we can live with a post 3/20 status. There are other factors in play, namely a trip in November with family, factoring into the decision (we want to start book a trip sooner rather than later). This is also a symbolic purchase as the first joint piece of property between my baby daddy and I, and my gift for our new family. I'm buying points instead of having a traditional wedding. So we'll see.

Again, thank you. And hope your contracts all work out one way or another.

 

[dbs1228]

Normangirls any updates?

 

[Normangirls]

Normangirls any updates?

Not really. Fidelity has worked with us and the seller to try to get an addendum that will compensate us for the lost points, while preserving our pre-3/20 status.

I refuse to do anything DVC does not clearly approve of, and I want it in writing. But they also may not want me to share it with the world, so I'm choosing to err on the side of caution and wait until this all plays out.

Sorry -- I'm not trying to be coy!

One of the things that amazes me is the number of people posting that similar things have happened to them. I guess I'm not as cynical as I thought, because I cannot believe the sellers who have been misleading about using their points.