Re-sale gone wrong - Sellers lied - What do I do?

[JWG]

If, like me, the deal you agreed to is worth pursuing, get Fidelity to request concessions from the seller (and if you're told DVC will grandfather you in pre-3/20, get it in writing!).

Good luck!

This.

Fidelity is striking out this month. What's up with that? New DVC brokers?

We have a contract in ROFR, if it comes back altered we will simply walk away. We beat the 3/20 deadline, but only purchased because it was there and not because we "need" it. Just so happened a nice small add-on in the right use year popped up. August BLT isn't commong, so we jumped. We'd wait to do the add on for another 12-24 months if ours came back different.

 

[rock_doctor]

I don't honestly seeing Disney being flexible on the 3/20 date. They just don't have to be. They already feel resale owners are the wayward (not the word i wanted to use) children.

Resale industry as a whole needs to rewrite their listing contract to state that once an agreement of sale is signed points may not be removed from the account in any way and this needs to be echoed in all subsequent paperwork. And it should be associated with a cash fine that will be paid to the buyer. At this time the sellers really have nothing to lose. The worst is they will have to wait a little longer and sell to somebody else. All resale agents must rely on the honesty of the sellers but a cash fine and language in the contracts would force their honesty.

Good luck i hope it does work out for you.

 

[dbs1228]

What is strange is that the resale we are currently purchasing was listed for 60.00 pp. When I called Fidelity to make and offer I offered 56.00pp for the loaded contract. Fidelity called me back to say the lowest the seller will go is 59.00 pp since the contract is listed for 63.00pp. I agreed to 59.00 and was ok with that but had to look at the listing again sure enough it said 60.00pp but the next day the SAME listing (in which my offer was already accepted) said 63.00pp. Why change it at that point, it was the same listing for over 2 weeks at 60.00!

 

[awilliams4]

I am livid right now, with the sellers, Fidelity, and Disney.

Disney doesn't have anything to do with this.

 

[Normangirls]

Disney doesn't have anything to do with this.

And I posted that right after I found out about this problem. I was upset, and frustrated, and mad at everyone involved.

If you read my subsequent posts, you'll see that I recognize that Disney, and even Fidelity for that matter, were not at fault here.

Have I said or done something to contradict that?

 

[5forDiz]

What is strange is that the resale we are currently purchasing was listed for 60.00 pp. When I called Fidelity to make and offer I offered 56.00pp for the loaded contract. Fidelity called me back to say the lowest the seller will go is 59.00 pp since the contract is listed for 63.00pp. I agreed to 59.00 and was ok with that but had to look at the listing again sure enough it said 60.00pp but the next day the SAME listing (in which my offer was already accepted) said 63.00pp. Why change it at that point, it was the same listing for over 2 weeks at 60.00!

Wow, this would have me wondering too ( I wouldn't be happy about this either ). Doesn't sound like Fidelity is plugged into the process enough, seems like a lot of sloppy errors

Best wishes on your purchase

 

[suebeelin]

Thank you to everyone who replied. Sounds like Fidelity is a bit sloppy (which I can understand given their workload, but it is not very good for the buyers), but the sellers are truly shady. I'm glad I don't have to know these people going forward b/c with dishonest friends (a trait that is usually pervasive in your life, verses limited to a one-time dishonest move on a Disney contract) you don't need frenemies.

I'm surmising that they are likely not happy people. How can dishonest people be happy? Maybe I'm just conjecturing and rationalizing into being happy with the purchase b/c I now actively dislike the sellers.

In any case, we decided to buy, but asked them to pay for closing costs. We just signed an addendum.

HOWEVER, will our contract now be considered Post 3/20 due to the addendum? If so, then I'm backing out. The prices are going to drop going forward, and they already have.. have you seen the BLT for $77 and the BWV for $49???

Good luck everyone, and I'd like to be a member-- and will be very soon, if not for this contract, then another one. I have a 2 year old son who would very much enjoy disney, perhaps more than me!

And shame on the lying, cheating sellers!! Do unto others, they say, and let's hope what they do unto others will be done tenfold on them!!
Sue

 

[JimMIA]

HOWEVER, will we be considered Post 3/20?

Nobody knows for sure until someone tries and either succeeds or fails.

In this situation, it is very important to understand that in a real estate transaction verbal representations mean NOTHING. The only thing that counts is what appears in written form within the four corners of the sales documents.

No matter what the broker (who has already been terribly wrong TWICE -- but you've forgiven them because they are "busy" and don't work weekends) tells you -- UNLESS you have a pre-3/20 GUARANTEE in writing from Disney Vacation Development, you have nothing.

The benefits that are being withdrawn after 3/20 come from DVD and only DVD can make an exception to that deadline. NOBODY else on the planet can guarantee you'll receive those benefits except DVD.

 

[disney11fan]

i read the post here and don't know what people are talking about pre 3/20 post 3/20 and the cost for points. it sounds like you stand a chance of getting hosed and i don't think it's worth the stress.

i guess when we go ...we stay at value ...look for the free dinning.... get a rental car and extend our stay and visit other florida cities.


the people posting here seem to have a good grasp on how this process works ...but for the life of me i don't know why disney should have any say in this. they made there money up front with the $16000-$20,000 paid up front.



just curious how much do you really save if your buying or renting points (if that's what its called) versus paying with a 40% disney pin discount at a deluxe resort? thanks for letting me ramble

 

[Dean]

I don't honestly seeing Disney being flexible on the 3/20 date. They just don't have to be. They already feel resale owners are the wayward (not the word i wanted to use) children.

Resale industry as a whole needs to rewrite their listing contract to state that once an agreement of sale is signed points may not be removed from the account in any way and this needs to be echoed in all subsequent paperwork. And it should be associated with a cash fine that will be paid to the buyer. At this time the sellers really have nothing to lose. The worst is they will have to wait a little longer and sell to somebody else. All resale agents must rely on the honesty of the sellers but a cash fine and language in the contracts would force their honesty.

Good luck i hope it does work out for you.

I don't see how Disney could put themselves into a position of allowing flexibility on the date. What they could do is look the other way on the closing if the terms end up different that originally submitted which I suspect they'll do but not officially.

I think the part you miss is that nothing will force honesty or follow through. Opening the option for legal options really doesn't give any real protection and no one in their right mind is going to go after someone for the fairly small amounts normally at stake here.

 

[disney11fan]

just saw another thread abt transfer/banking/rent

all with send me a pm. if interested. maybe there is something to this. but if you have to pay a maintenance fee every year and your selling or renting or trading your points how are you any further ahead.

 

[disney11fan]

what's the difference between the two? is it really worth it buying,renting or trading points ? sounds like you have to be very trusting and hope the person your dealing with is honest and the company handling the deal ..knows what there doing.

glad i vacation the old standerd way. call or visit disney reservations on the web.

good luck to all... i love this thread...you guys rock.

 

[suebeelin]

So how to I confirm that we would have the original ownership rights (pre-3/20 contract) with this addendum? B/c if we're not going to have the original ownership rights we will back out and lose $250. Prices are dropping anyway. I don't trust Fidelity to confirm that we will have the pre-3/20 ownership rights. Can we call Disney, and how can I get in touch with Disney??? Help. Please!!

Disney11fan: if you had your contract for Disney to review pre-3/20, you would receive all original ownership rights. However, contracts that are submitted for the ROFR process post 3/20 are limited in that the points cannot be used for certain things (such as cruises, or the Disney France/Japan, as well as using the points for Disney Hotel rooms-- the use of these points for anything other than the DVC properties has been discussed and is not considered prudent). However, people, including myself, would like the option nevertheless which is why the 3/20 date is important.

Also, Disney keeps the value of their timeshares by having this ROFR. As a result, many people used that residual value (which has historically been more than residual) as a factor in their decision to buy into Disney's DVC program. Also, Disney resells these points, or rents out the rooms as hotel rooms, so it was a smart financial decision on Disney's part to have the ROFR in place.

Did I explain this right? I took a crash course on DVC starting in January 2011, so.... I an relatively speaking a newbie!!

Sue

 

[vicki_c]

what's the difference between the two? is it really worth it buying,renting or trading points ? sounds like you have to be very trusting and hope the person your dealing with is honest and the company handling the deal ..knows what there doing.

glad i vacation the old standerd way. call or visit disney reservations on the web.

good luck to all... i love this thread...you guys rock.

If you really have questions about DVC & RCI you should start your own new thread - this is not really the place for it.

 

[dbs1228]

Suebeelin Why would you lose anything???? The contract you submitted is not what the seller agreed to sell, I am confused?

 

[JimMIA]

So how to I confirm that we would have the original ownership rights (pre-3/20 contract) with this addendum? B/c if we're not going to have the original ownership rights we will back out and lose $250. Prices are dropping anyway. I don't trust Fidelity to confirm that we will have the pre-3/20 ownership rights. Can we call Disney, and how can I get in touch with Disney??? Help. Please!!

You keep asking the same question over and over, but you're not reading the answers.

The benefits which were removed for resale buyers after 3/20 were benefits provided by Disney Vacation Development -- not DVC, which is a separate division of Disney. Therefore, it is obvious that the only organization that can guarantee that you'll receive those benefits is Disney Vacation Development.

Anything Fidelity, the seller, DVC, posters here, or the Tooth Fairy tell you means nothing. You need to get it in writing from DVD.

Give Fidelity a reasonable amount of time to deliver that written guarantee, and if they can't, do whatever you are going to do.

 

[DVCconvert]

Anything .... the Tooth Fairy tell you means nothing.

O.M.G.!!......And for all these YEARS I've trusted the tooth fairy!!

 

[JimMIA]

B/c if we're not going to have the original ownership rights we will back out and lose $250.

As I, and numerous other posters have already told you, you will not lose a penny if you cancel. You contracted to buy a certain number of points. The seller cannot deliver those points. Therefore, there is no contract (unless you want to modify it to your detriment), and you'll get your deposit back.

Also, Disney keeps the value of their timeshares by having this ROFR. As a result, many people used that residual value (which has historically been more than residual) as a factor in their decision to buy into Disney's DVC program. Also, Disney resells these points, or rents out the rooms as hotel rooms, so it was a smart financial decision on Disney's part to have the ROFR in place.

Just because Disney has the ability to support resale prices with ROFR does not mean they will actually do it. In truth, they haven't been supporting prices for more than a year, which is why the prices have dropped. What Disney did five years ago has nothing to do with what they are doing today.

It would be truly foolish to count on Disney ROFR support propping up resale prices and relying on that to yield some recovery of your original purchase price at a later date. That is a real sucker bet, considering Disney's consistent practice recently.

 

[Sandisw]

So how to I confirm that we would have the original ownership rights (pre-3/20 contract) with this addendum? B/c if we're not going to have the original ownership rights we will back out and lose $250. Prices are dropping anyway. I don't trust Fidelity to confirm that we will have the pre-3/20 ownership rights. Can we call Disney, and how can I get in touch with Disney??? Help. Please!!

Disney11fan: if you had your contract for Disney to review pre-3/20, you would receive all original ownership rights. However, contracts that are submitted for the ROFR process post 3/20 are limited in that the points cannot be used for certain things (such as cruises, or the Disney France/Japan, as well as using the points for Disney Hotel rooms-- the use of these points for anything other than the DVC properties has been discussed and is not considered prudent). However, people, including myself, would like the option nevertheless which is why the 3/20 date is important.
Also, Disney keeps the value of their timeshares by having this ROFR. As a result, many people used that residual value (which has historically been more than residual) as a factor in their decision to buy into Disney's DVC program. Also, Disney resells these points, or rents out the rooms as hotel rooms, so it was a smart financial decision on Disney's part to have the ROFR in place.

Did I explain this right? I took a crash course on DVC starting in January 2011, so.... I an relatively speaking a newbie!!

Sue

Personally, I would not continue with a contract with an owner who uses points after listing it for sale. What is to guarantee, even after an addendum and even a guarantee from DVD that the points you think you are getting are going to be there?

It stinks if you really wanted those benefits, but at this point, I don't think I could do it. And, I would caution anyone in using resale value as a decision factor. There are too many things that can affect that that are out of an owners control. Buy for the value of its use and you won't be disappointed if the contracts are selling for a $1 next year.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[rock_doctor]

I don't see how Disney could put themselves into a position of allowing flexibility on the date. What they could do is look the other way on the closing if the terms end up different that originally submitted which I suspect they'll do but not officially.

I think the part you miss is that nothing will force honesty or follow through. Opening the option for legal options really doesn't give any real protection and no one in their right mind is going to go after someone for the fairly small amounts normally at stake here.

I understand, and i do agree Disney is not going to waver in the 3/20 deadline. If they do then they are opening themselves to tons of people arguing with them about their contracts. I also understand you can't force honesty but if the sellers lie then have to pay a fine to the broker which will then in turn pay back the buyers for the loss in points, it would help the sale go though. Effectively giving them some money back and not affecting the price of the sale as far as the paperwork is concerned.