Re-sale gone wrong - Sellers lied - What do I do?

[Dean]

Not really. Fidelity has worked with us and the seller to try to get an addendum that will compensate us for the lost points, while preserving our pre-3/20 status.

I refuse to do anything DVC does not clearly approve of, and I want it in writing. But they also may not want me to share it with the world, so I'm choosing to err on the side of caution and wait until this all plays out.

Sorry -- I'm not trying to be coy!

One of the things that amazes me is the number of people posting that similar things have happened to them. I guess I'm not as cynical as I thought, because I cannot believe the sellers who have been misleading about using their points.

If you want it in writing from Disney I think you're sealing your fate as I don't see how they could do this. Likely your best option is to get a commitment from Fidelity to reimburse you in some way if this doesn't work out. Since the brokers normally send a copy of the deed and the other transfer paperwork to Disney at the same time as they send it to OC (unlike for individual changes where they require a recorded copy), maybe they could hold back and see what happens prior to actually recording it. I'd also insist that the closing company hold the funds until you're satisfied all is in order. Make sure your contract or any addendum state that it must be a qualified contract recognized by Disney as a non restricted resale including all options available to any retail buyer.

 

[Normangirls]

If you want it in writing from Disney I think you're sealing your fate as I don't see how they could do this.

If that's the case, so be it. I just don't want to do anything behind their back, and it is my understanding that any agreements with the seller beyond what is in the contract submitted to DVC is usually against the rules. There may be a (legal) way around those rules, and that's what we're looking into.

Likely your best option is to get a commitment from Fidelity to reimburse you in some way if this doesn't work out. Since the brokers normally send a copy of the deed and the other transfer paperwork to Disney at the same time as they send it to OC (unlike for individual changes where they require a recorded copy), maybe they could hold back and see what happens prior to actually recording it. I'd also insist that the closing company hold the funds until you're satisfied all is in order.

We definitely want to do something like this, like holding the money in escrow.

Make sure your contract or any addendum state that it must be a qualified contract recognized by Disney as a non restricted resale including all options available to any retail buyer.

Huh?

You lost me on the last one. Can you explain it to me, please?

 

[disney11fan]

Could someone explain why the big deal between pre 3/20 and post 3/20 and why it's seems to be so important ?

 

[Sandisw]

Could someone explain why the big deal between pre 3/20 and post 3/20 and why it's seems to be so important ?

Resale contracts that are sold from this point forward--actually, from 3/20 forward---no longer can be used for certain options like the Disney Collection, Adventurs by Disney, and a few others.

So, anyone buying now, for example, can't use those points for a Disney cruise. If you owned points prior to 3/20, or at least submitted a contract for purchase to Disney by 3/20, your points still carry your benefit.

If you buy direct from Disney, you will still be entitled to those benefits until you choose to sell the points.

 

[disney11fan]

Resale contracts that are sold from this point forward--actually, from 3/20 forward---no longer can be used for certain options like the Disney Collection, Adventurs by Disney, and a few others.

So, anyone buying now, for example, can't use those points for a Disney cruise. If you owned points prior to 3/20, or at least submitted a contract for purchase to Disney by 3/20, your points still carry your benefit.

If you buy direct from Disney, you will still be entitled to those benefits until you choose to sell the points.

thank you for helping me understand. now i see why all the fuss before 3/20 close date. i hope everyone got what they wanted.

doesn't seem fair disney would get involved with there customers ....who may for one reason or another need to sell points.

 

[Dean]

If that's the case, so be it. I just don't want to do anything behind their back, and it is my understanding that any agreements with the seller beyond what is in the contract submitted to DVC is usually against the rules. There may be a (legal) way around those rules, and that's what we're looking into.

To be honest, I don't think there's a way around your issue that's both legal and totally within the contractual situation. I don't see DVD giving you a written waiver with the change, any addendum would have to be resubmitted to be within the rules. What DVC could do I guess if it were resubmitted would be to let it sit and let the usual 30 days expire without action and you could then close with the previous ROFR or with no ROFR. Or you could proceed with the change without resubmitting and hope DVC looks the other way. I do not believe there is a situation where you are truly going to know up front for certain and in writing AND get the unrestricted resale.

We definitely want to do something like this, like holding the money in escrow.

You need it to be in the contract to do this or anything similar.

Huh?

I'd have them generate an addendum that states the points must be recognized by DVC as unrestricted DVC points with all the same options as any other DVC member. I'd also have it say that the points were not limited by the post 3/20 restrictions announced by DVC. I'd add to that for the money paid to be held in escrow for 60 days from closing or until you had confirmation from DVC that the points were unrestricted, which ever is sooner. You also need a clause that states the sale is null and void and ALL money you paid be returned to you if the conditions are not met. You'll need to commit legally to signing any paperwork to have the sale reversed if needed.

Also look at your contract, if it doesn't give you a 10 day cancelation period, you have a year to cancel.

 

[Mississippian]

To be honest, I don't think there's a way around your issue that's both legal and totally within the contractual situation. I don't see DVD giving you a written waiver with the change, any addendum would have to be resubmitted to be within the rules. What DVC could do I guess if it were resubmitted would be to let it sit and let the usual 30 days expire without action and you could then close with the previous ROFR or with no ROFR. Or you could proceed with the change without resubmitting and hope DVC looks the other way. I do not believe there is a situation where you are truly going to know up front for certain and in writing AND get the unrestricted resale.

In my opinion seller's actions have created a cause of action for breach of contract. Buyer and sell may sign a covenant not to sue at closing, explaining the situation and with seller paying buyer for the missing points. This is completely independent of the actual sales contract and therefore does not need to be submitted to DVD. Everybody leaves happy.

 

[Dean]

In my opinion seller's actions have created a cause of action for breach of contract. Buyer and sell may sign a covenant not to sue at closing, explaining the situation and with seller paying buyer for the missing points. This is completely independent of the actual sales contract and therefore does not need to be submitted to DVD. Everybody leaves happy.

That's not how I understand it from a technical and legal standpoint. The points accounting is part of the contract and part of the ROFR. Any change in who pays what to who is also part of the contract. Just like you can't put one price and charge another to a friend or relative.

 

[suebeelin]

hi Normagirls-- So sorry you are dealing with something similar, and seemingly caught in a rock and a hard place. My advice, one that I'm following, is to think about whether the pre-3/20 is that important. If it is, then back out. If it isn't, then negotiate something so that if the contract does go through as if post 3/20, then you have something you can live with.

Is this a price you could live with as a post 3/20 contract?

Im not so sure what we're going to do yet and closing is happening soon. If we walk away, I think we lose about $400-500 (do you remember what the deposit is?), but I am not sure whether there are other repercussions.

Good luck!

 

[dbs1228]

I have yet to be charged our 500.00 deposit I put on my credit card on 3/4 when I signed the contracts. We have already passed ROFR and waiting closing docs.

Did you pay the deposit suebeelin? Just curious I know others said there contract deposits had not been charged.

 

[suebeelin]

Hey! So no, they haven't charged my deposit yet. Thanks for reminding me that it's $500.... I'm leaning towards just going through with the purchase at the end of the day. I ultimately want to go to Disney, and specifically BWV, every year for the next 30 years, so we'll see.

There hasn't been many people submitting contracts post 3/20. Guess everyone who waas on the fence jumped off the fence and started running last month, huh?

 

[dbs1228]

I jumped both selling and buying!

 

[rock_doctor]

Hey! So no, they haven't charged my deposit yet. Thanks for reminding me that it's $500.... I'm leaning towards just going through with the purchase at the end of the day. I ultimately want to go to Disney, and specifically BWV, every year for the next 30 years, so we'll see.

There hasn't been many people submitting contracts post 3/20. Guess everyone who was on the fence jumped off the fence and started running last month, huh?

IMHO, you have the right idea here, i would just do it and be done. In the grand scheme of things you end up with the points and perks for a descent price.

I think Disney was stunned how much impact the reduction of perks made to pushing people off the fence. It shoved us off. We cleared ROFR before 3/20 and are waiting for closing, which is supposed to be next week.

 

[suebeelin]

The deposit just showed up on my credit card. Today.

I'm annoyed that my contract may not be considered pre-3/20, and no one will know until after the fact. But at the same time, I just want this over with.

Normagirls, how are you dealing with this??

 

[ORD2KOA]

Hey! So no, they haven't charged my deposit yet. Thanks for reminding me that it's $500.... I'm leaning towards just going through with the purchase at the end of the day. I ultimately want to go to Disney, and specifically BWV, every year for the next 30 years, so we'll see.

There hasn't been many people submitting contracts post 3/20. Guess everyone who waas on the fence jumped off the fence and started running last month, huh?

I think you made the right decision and I hope, in the end, you have no regrets. If BWV had been there in 1994, that's where we would have purchased.

I had been sitting on that fence since the first time the stupid (I can't tell you how much I hate it) "rule of 4" screwed up my plans and finally decided that it was "now or never" to sell OKW and buy a smaller contract at BWV. So I jumped in mid-February.

The sale closed last week and the purchase passed ROFR yesterday. Now the dreaded wait until I can book our birthdays in December.

 

[suebeelin]

What's the rule of 4?

We just hope we get the original ownership status. Then we would be happy. I do think the prices will drop going forward, at least initially, so... but it's neither here nor there. We'll be happy.

We want to book in early November and worry we will not have the booking advantage by the time everything closes!!! Any advice?

 

[ORD2KOA]

IMHO, you have the right idea here, i would just do it and be done. In the grand scheme of things you end up with the points and perks for a descent price.

I think Disney was stunned how much impact the reduction of perks made to pushing people off the fence. It shoved us off. We cleared ROFR before 3/20 and are waiting for closing, which is supposed to be next week.

I agree. I have to keep reading to see what Normangirls decided, but my thinking on this from the beginning (when looking for a contract for myself) was that the right resort, number of points and use year were what was important to me and banked points, if any, were not the reason to buy or to pay a premium for the one-time use of those points. I kept thinking of banked points as a piece of furniture left in a house I was buying -- not a deal-maker or deal-breaker.

 

[Normangirls]

Normagirls, how are you dealing with this??

Grand Marnier Orange Slushie (my version I make at home)

 

[JimMIA]

I think Disney was stunned how much impact the reduction of perks made to pushing people off the fence. It shoved us off. We cleared ROFR before 3/20 and are waiting for closing, which is supposed to be next week.

I don't know if Disney even knows, and I doubt they care. I think virtually everyone who "jumped off the fence" purchased resale, and I doubt if very many of them were direct-purchase candidates.

Disney, like every other timeshare developer, is looking for the poorly-informed consumer who will make an impulsive, emotional purchase decision.

The new ability to show some tangible difference between direct and resale gives them a tool to confuse anyone who might have heard of the resale market. Given a little confusion, uninformed prospects will buy direct.

 

[JimMIA]

Grand Marnier Orange Slushie (my version I make at home)

That sounds like a much more thoughful strategy than some I've heard in some of these threads.