Newest Ms Change!

[Chuck S]

I just have to reply to this... We were renters before we bought into DVC. Disney is upgrading people fron Allstars into SSR one bedrooms. Why, do you think they are doing that? This is for the upcoming "free dining special" , Disney wants people to get a taste of DVC. Renting is free advertising for the DVC. I agree that the Ebay Commercial Renting taking all the best weeks is wrong. What is wrong with finding someone that just wants to stay at Disney, like you and me? You find someone's points that they were not going to use and book them where ever there is a vacanacy. Most of these people are within the 2-5 month window. They take what they can get. It's the people that don't use their points every year that are going to be hurt and Disney is going to lose a lot of free Advertising. The renters will go to another timeshare. They are all over Orlando, in case Disney has forgotten. I am still deciding if I am going to keep both of mine. I may sell one. The flexibility was what I liked about it.

Well, they don't grab rooms away from members to do this. They are rooms turned over to Disney for rental by DVC (ie, rooms unreserved by members at 60 days out) They are also rooms that are completed, but are not yet declared as part of DVC inventory. Each building must be declared to be a part of DVC before it is used for DVC point reservations or points are sold for that building. If the upgrade is withing the 60 day window, they are Disney's rooms to do with as they please.

 

[kimberh]

It was on one of the other sections of this board where people were posting about their upgrade a few months ago. The free dining is a special that was on Disney's web page for months. It runs 08/13-09/30. It had to be booked first by June 4th and then they extended it until June 20 something. You had to pay rack for the room and buy at least a one day ticket , then Disney gave the free dining plan for lenght of stay but had to stay 5 or 6 nights, I forget now. I am going. I booked 6 nights.

 

[kimberh]

Well, they don't grab rooms away from members to do this. They are rooms turned over to Disney for rental by DVC (ie, rooms unreserved by members at 60 days out) They are also rooms that are completed, but are not yet declared as part of DVC inventory. Each building must be declared to be a part of DVC before it is used for DVC point reservations or points are sold for that building. If the upgrade is withing the 60 day window, they are Disney's rooms to do with as they please.

Chuck, I didn't say that rooms were grabbed from DVC members. I said Disney is upgrading and using it as a Advertising tool. What a upgrade!! 240 sf to a 700 plus sf. My point was anyone that stays in dvc is getting to see how great it is. I also said, I disagee with the grabbing up of the best weeks to be auctioned off. Or I thought I did.

 

[rinkwide]

...Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered...

It's a bluff. Disney won't even scold a wayward smoker and now you're telling me they're going to start cancelling suspected rentals? Oh yeah, that's gonna' happen.

...published policies limit the use of accommodations and recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of Owners (and) their lessees...

So apparently, "lessees" (that's renters folks) are fine, just not ones that are deemed profitable. Ridiculous.

If I was a commercial renter I'd call Jim Lewis and laugh in his face.

 

[missymouse]

It was on one of the other sections of this board where people were posting about their upgrade a few months ago. The free dining is a special that was on Disney's web page for months. It runs 08/13-09/30. It had to be booked first by June 4th and then they extended it until June 20 something. You had to pay rack for the room and buy at least a one day ticket , then Disney gave the free dining plan for lenght of stay but had to stay 5 or 6 nights, I forget now. I am going. I booked 6 nights.

Guess I missed the people getting free upgrades from All Stars to DVC accomodations. But I guess I also missed your point with this post and what it has to do with the newest changes to MS and enforcement of what seems to be policy. I knew about the free dining if you pay rack rate for a room but didn't see anywhere where it applied to DVC resorts unless you were paying rack rate for those rooms through CRO. If people did indeed get upgraded at no additional charge from All Stars to SSR with Free dining what lucky people.

 

[Chuck S]

Chuck, I didn't say that rooms were grabbed from DVC members. I said Disney is upgrading and using it as a Advertising tool. What a upgrade!! 240 sf to a 700 plus sf. My point was anyone that stays in dvc is getting to see how great it is. I also said, I disagee with the grabbing up of the best weeks to be auctioned off. Or I thought I did.

But again, they are Disney's rooms, turned over to them by DVC...so what do you percieve to be a problem with the upgrades? They are welcome to use them as a marketing tool, if they wish. How do the upgrades have anything to do with owners renting points and actually taking rooms from DVC inventory for their private rental profit?

 

[greenban]

For once I'm silent.

I can't figure this one out, yet.

At first I was agreeing with Rinky, someone messed up a ressie, and an irate renter hammered Disney via their own Attorney.

Next, I thought along Beca's lines, open up other resorts at 7 month window. Too many complaints from members about options at 7 months.

Then I thought, stop professional renting and spec booking of hi-value weeks.

Lastly, I thought money saving strategies due to soaring energy costs.

Now I'm just not sure. I always thought renting got Disney a lot of new Owners, but an inside source tells me, that demand for SSR currently is outpacing availability!!!! And they don't need referrals to sell the DVC!

If true, Disney doesn't need the 'free' advertising from existing owners, nor from renting.

I don't believe a secondary goal is to open up SSR for all-star, pop upgrades for new users.

So are we doomed to more 800 Unit DVCs in the future and no more destination DVC's?

Will they adjust the 11 month booking window, return to a holiday lottery, sell off SSR when fully sold?

So silent I'll be until I can see the plan.

I do predict an interesting summer!

-Tony

 

[ralphd]

Actually, this is exactly how Transferring is defined in our documents. While MS has allowed members more than one transfer, the documents clearly state that only one transfer is allowed per Use Year.

With the recent "changes" described , it appears that all they are doing is actually following the policies already in place and spelled out in our legal documents.

What's next - following the occupancy limits?

Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[kimberh]

OK, I feel like I have been totally been misunderstood. I realize that Disney is a owner at all of the DVC resorts. I realize that Disney can do whatever they want to do whenever they want to do it. The point I was trying to make: Disney could have upgraded the Allstar families to any resort they wanted to. It is for the upcoming Aug-Sept special and the upgrade was made months ago (more than 60 days). In my opinion, Disney choose SSR to promote it as the newest resort. When the statement came out today, That Disney can cancel existing reservations that a DVC member has made if they want to, I just wanted to point out that any family that stays in a DVC is getting the same experience that Disney is wanting for ie: ALLstars-SSR upgrades. I feel it would be devasting for existing reservations to cancelled!!

Someone else pointed out that someone from Disney must be reading the Post. Advertising cost a lot of money. I started my previous post that we were renters that became owners, (free advertising for DVC) This is how A = B. Is this what disney is hoping with their upgrades? How many renters have became owners? Again where A=B ,hoping that Disney will not cancel Existing Reservations! Where is the Mouse in that? If this is not understood then I don't know how else to put it.

Again, I want to point out that booking the best weeks to auction off, I feel is wrong. There has to be a happy medium.

 

[RobDoc]

I just have to reply to this... We were renters before we bought into DVC. Disney is upgrading people fron Allstars into SSR one bedrooms. Why, do you think they are doing that? This is for the upcoming "free dining special" , Disney wants people to get a taste of DVC. Renting is free advertising for the DVC. ...

The "upgrades" had nothing to do with the Free Dining program- as those upgrades took place in during April/May. (Here is the original thread about someone getting an upgrade from back in early April.)

DVC doesn't "depend" on renters for any of their advertising promotions- remember, there are DVC information kiosks in every resort, Theme Park and a TV channel devoted to DVC playing 24/7 in every WDW resort room.

While, I agree that staying in a DVC villa is a wonderful way to expose guests to the DVC program, DVC has never encouraged renting outwardly although they certainly offered no obstacles until the events of this week.

 

[crisi]

For once I'm silent.

I can't figure this one out, yet.

At first I was agreeing with Rinky, someone messed up a ressie, and an irate renter hammered Disney via their own Attorney.

I'm still betting this was the kickoff point. Then a whole lot of discussions started taking place about what was going on, what Disney's potential exposure was, etc.



Rinkwide - it isn't going to take much of a bluff for them to get this to work. They start printing a disclaimer on the bottom of confirmation "Disney reserves the right to cancel a reservation deemed to be made in commericial interests - which includes the member having a pattern deemed by DVC to be typical of renting points for profit" and there won't be customers - they won't HAVE to cancel anything.

 

[barbarabee]

So...I'm a little confused...maybe because I don't rent my points, or transfer them for that matter...

DVC isn't making any changes, they are just reinforcing the policy in the contract that we all signed. Some people weren't playing by the rules, and they were getting away with it. Now all this complaining about this new change that isn't actually a change? I would say if you are looking for what other changes might be coming down the line, read your contract and see what other rules are being bent.

The one transfer/year rule was obviously considered when DVC was originally formed, before SSR, before BWV had Boardwalk views, so all this speculating about why the original rules are actually being enforced seems a little silly.

 

[rinkwide]

...printing a disclaimer on the bottom of confirmation...

There's a disclaimer on every bottle of beer you open but that never stops anyone from getting plastered.

 

[crisi]

There's a disclaimer on every bottle of beer you open but that never stops anyone from getting plastered.

If the bottle of beer cost $1200 and carried a disclaimer that said "this might be a beer, and it might be water, but you won't know until you buy it and open it" it might.

Seriously, how many renters do you think would fork over money for a DVC reservation if they were unable to confirm with MS that the reservation had been made and when they did get the printed confirmation from Disney it said "Disney reserves the right to cancel this reservation if it is deemed the member is engaging in commercial rental" or something like that.

But then, I'm pretty conservative. A month ago when you could call MS and confirm the rental I still wouldn't have rented - the slight risk of getting taken is too high for what I'm looking for.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I'm not sure the REASON for going back to the original POS on transfers either, but it does look like a way to quell the "commercial" rental market and prevent folks from paying All Star rates for DVC rooms.

I have to believe it has something to do with the unit size that is being requested most as well.

Think of it....The majority of renters are looking for a studio room only. That puts the "demand" for studios much higher than other size accommodations. In a resort like BWV, where most units are lock-offs, this means there might be a difficulty providing enough 2 bedroom units for members. Since most folks who look at timeshares in the traditional sense are used to 1,2,or 3 bedroom vacation homes, this throws things completely out of balance. Could that AND the tieing up of prime time and prime locations be part of the issue?

 

[Merilyn]

OK, I didn't read the whole 9 pages, but I need help understanding this transfer thing. I own 2 resort both with Sept use year. When I use one resorts points at the 7 month window to book the other, is that called transferring? Is that going to be a 1 time a year thing? Maybe that is not what transferring is and I hope it isn't. I sometimes don't go to both in a year but use points at the 7 month window to book the other. I would hate to be tied down to 1 time a year to transfer my points to either of my resort. Hope yall can help me with this!
Merilyn

 

[rinkwide]

If the bottle of beer cost $1200 and carried a disclaimer that said "this might be a beer, and it might be water, but you won't know until you buy it and open it"...

You're thinking of the wine industry (and it turns to vinegar, not water).

Look, I get your point but as long as there is good value in the proposition - even if the bottom of their confirmation letter reads "renters will be stripped and flogged upon check-in" - people are gonna' do it.

...sure would liven-up the lobbies, eh?

 

[RobDoc]

I own 2 resort both with Sept use year. When I use one resorts points at the 7 month window to book the other, is that called transferring?

No - from your question I'm sure this policy will not affect you at all.

A Transfer occurs when one member transfers points to another member. This is an irreversible transaction and can only be accomplished thru MS.

It has nothing to do with an individual member using their points to make reservations at the 7 month window at all.

Don't worry, you'll be fine !

Enjoy!

 

[Dean]

But again, they are Disney's rooms, turned over to them by DVC...so what do you percieve to be a problem with the upgrades? They are welcome to use them as a marketing tool, if they wish. How do the upgrades have anything to do with owners renting points and actually taking rooms from DVC inventory for their private rental profit?

Actually these are not DVC rooms but DVD rooms not declared into DVC inventory yet. DVD could stop selling tomorrow and keep the rest of the rooms if they wanted and they'd never be DVC rooms.

If I had ever been tempted to rent or recommend renting in the past, this kills it for me.

Innocent renter rents points from "commercial" member.

Innocent renter pays up from (because that is what we all do to keep from getting stiffed).

DVC cancels reservation having identified a pattern of rental activity for profit.


!!!!!!

As someone else said, it remains to be seen if this will have an effect, if it'll stick and what other issues may happen. As I hinted a few pages and 24 hours ago, I suspect this will not hurt people who want to rent routinely but will hurt casual renters and rentees. Likely many will not rent anymore for the one time cash influx. IMO this somewhat devalues the points for those people. Many will not transfer small numbers of points to OTHER MEMBERS. And likely the price of all rented points will go up, transferred or otherwise.

Plus don't forget there is still NO definition of a commercial renter. I wouldn't see this holding up if challenged if DVC tried to prevent one renting what they own. And I do see it being challenged I'm told there is case law in FL related to condo's that essentially says the association or developer can't hold he owners to a different standard than applies to themselves. I would expect the same principle to apply to Disney. So as long as Disney is doing it, I don't see them preventing others. And I don't see Disney winning that lawsuit or even fighting it if a brief is filed. But we shall see and it could be fun both to discuss ad nauseam and to see what happens with DVC and it's "enforcement".

 

[Dean]

OK, I didn't read the whole 9 pages, but I need help understanding this transfer thing. I own 2 resort both with Sept use year. When I use one resorts points at the 7 month window to book the other, is that called transferring? Is that going to be a 1 time a year thing? Maybe that is not what transferring is and I hope it isn't. I sometimes don't go to both in a year but use points at the 7 month window to book the other. I would hate to be tied down to 1 time a year to transfer my points to either of my resort. Hope yall can help me with this!
Merilyn

If they are under one master contract, you would not be affected in they way you are concerned about. If they are totally separate and unrelated, you would be affected.

Like so many things I know many people were thinking this was a good thing, stick it to those that are renting. But then you realize that you and your sister have contracts and you might need to transfer points from one to another. Or you want to buy a few points transferred in to complete a large group trip. Or you want to rent a fair amount of points and do the cruise with cash because it's both cheaper and safer.