Newest Ms Change!

[kimberh]

I received 2 transfers today before I knew about this. Both in the same account from different people. Maybe because it was the first day and they were being nice.

 

[Plutofan]

The way I am understanding it is this....if you have two member numbers, you can have two transfers (one per member number). The only exception is this...since each ONE transfer actually counts as TWO transfers in DVC's system (one for the person transferring away, and one for the person transferring in), if you are transferring points from one of your member #'s to the other one....that is using BOTH of your transfers in that one transaction.



Beca

I have 4 member numbers and I was told that I could only do one transfer that it was not by member number but by member. Does anyone know the real answer?

 

[mikayla73]

This has been confusing me for some time, and now seems the perfect time to bring it up.

Here is a quote from the FAQ on the Rent/Transfer Board:
C. Points for Transfer: Posting of willingness to Transfer points to another DVC-Member. In this situation, no reservation is made, but an offer to transfer points directly from one member's account to another member's account. NOTE: DVC rules prohibit the transfer of points in exchange for any type of compensation.

Is the final statement truly in the written rules? If so, what will happen when DVC starts enforcing this rule?

I wondered that too. I am brand new to all of this so I am sure that I don't understand everything, but unless it was a family member or a REALLY good friend, I can't imagine people just transferring points without getting some type of compensation.

As a newbie to WDW and DVC, I have learned a lot on these boards and I am thankful to everyone!

 

[RobDoc]

Now, I am really confused....in this case, does a UY mean a "calendar UY", or does it mean if I have two different UY's (say an Aug contract and a Sept contract) that I can have two transfers?

Most members do NOT have multiple UY's, so DVC might just be "general" in their responses when they say "per member". If a member has two different member numbers, is DVC really going to make a note under one member # account that they cannot do even ONE transfer under that member # because they have made a transfer under another member #?

The term "use year" can be very confusing...



Beca

A Use Year would begin on the date your UY begins (ie- September 1, 2006 thru August 31, 2007). If you have two Use Years, then each contract would have it's unique 365 day period.

The POS is rather vague (IMO) regarding Transfers in that is does state "per member" and not "per contract". In that sense, I suppose they could interpret it as one Transfer per unique member name. I think that could be difficult to monitor for those with multiple contracts, but I am not sure how that will be handled. I'm reasonably certain that all contracts under one Master Contract wil be counted as one (ie- if you have a June UY with 200 points at OKW, 50 at BWV and 50 at BCV- all would be counted as one "member" and would be allowed one transfer (total) each year between June 1 and May 31 the following year).

 

[kgar2121]

so when i bought in july, i purchased 250 points. but we broke it into 2 different contracts, 150 and 100. they are both at ssr and both have the same UY. does this mean that if i were to go for a week for 200 points, a transfer would have taken place? im still trying to figure all this out. if so, and im not mistaken, there was a 10 day window after sending paperwork back that you can cancel (yes?), do i need to get on the horn with MS first thing in the morning?

 

[RobDoc]

No- since all of your points are the same Use Year, same resort and same contract everything will be treated the same as if you had one contract of 250 points. No transfer will occur and you will have no difficulty making reservations or banking (or borrowing) your points. ... and you will still have the ability to sell one contract and keep the other if you so desire.

Enjoy!

 

[Dean]

Actually, this is exactly how Transferring is defined in our documents. While MS has allowed members more than one transfer, the documents do not state that more than one transfer is allowed per Use Year.

With the recent "changes" described , it appears that all they are doing is actually following the policies already in place and spelled out in our legal documents.

What's next - following the occupancy limits?

Actually it's the way it's defined in our older documents. Starting with the multi site POS that included SSR in 2003, unlimited transfers one way per use year were specified. More specifically, no limitations were included other than in OR out but not both. Seems everyone has forgotten that FACT. I'm not sure this will hold up without having the members vote on it. The way I read the POS, any change that adversely affects the members would need approval of the members themselves and not the voting representative. But overall I don't think it's a big deal and suspect it will have little effect one way or another for most members. IF I were one adversely affected, I'd file a complaint with DVC, ask for arbitration then file a complaint with the state of FL. I suspect DVC will back down or put it to a vote of the members, something they've never done. But if it indeed hold to be true, it will hurt members far more than renters IMO. And I'd frankly be surprised if the rule was even changed, more likely a zealous employee who read old documents and is telling others at MS wrong info, but we shall see.

What about transfering between your own contracts, do you think that will be allowed in addition to 1 in/out for each membership?

These have always been handled on a case by case basis and DVC has routinely bent certain rules when appropriate. For example, one must have all points in ONE contract for DCL and the like. This is a technical issue where DVC will make it work even if it means transferring banked/borrowed points.

From what I have heard about the new "system" (or, at least the enforcing of the new system), is that it is one trade per MEMBER, not member contract. But, as I write this I am wondering, "How would MS enforce that?"
Can someone clear that up for me? Is it one transfer per MEMBER as I was told, or is it one transfer per CONTRACT? Hmmm....

Either way, if you have two contracts and are trying to transfer points from one to another, you would still be done for the year.

It would have to be per contract or else DVC would have to give all the same benefits for multiple contracts you get if all in one including aggregate banking totals. Can't have it both ways. If it were per member, each member on each contract would get a transfer.

 

[RobDoc]

This has been confusing me for some time, and now seems the perfect time to bring it up.

Here is a quote from the FAQ on the Rent/Transfer Board:
C. Points for Transfer: Posting of willingness to Transfer points to another DVC-Member. In this situation, no reservation is made, but an offer to transfer points directly from one member's account to another member's account. NOTE: DVC rules prohibit the transfer of points in exchange for any type of compensation.

Is the final statement truly in the written rules? If so, what will happen when DVC starts enforcing this rule?

Yes, that statement is defintiely in the POS. That rule probably can't be enforced by DVC, since they have no means to police it unless the member accepting the points tells them so they will cancel the transfer (after the other member has already been paid). IMO, the rule exists to make it clear that DVC will not be put in the position to settle a dispute regarding a transfer. For instance, if a transfer were made and the member who had his points transferred later contacted MS because something went wrong with receiving payment- MS could jsut wash their hands of the issue because no money was suposed to be involved in the first place. It truly puts all of the responsibility in the hands of the members involved.

To my knowledge, we've never had a report of a transfer being disallowed by MS because the members volunteered that money had exchanged hands in the transaction.

IMO, DVC knows it goes on all the time, but just has a "Don't ask- Don't tell" attitude regarding payment for transfers.

 

[Beca]

The POS is rather vague (IMO) regarding Transfers in that is does state "per member" and not "per contract". In that sense, I suppose they could interpret it as one Transfer per unique member name. I think that could be difficult to monitor for those with multiple contracts, but I am not sure how that will be handled. I'm reasonably certain that all contracts under one Master Contract wil be counted as one (ie- if you have a June UY with 200 points at OKW, 50 at BWV and 50 at BCV- all would be counted as one "member" and would be allowed one transfer (total) each year between June 1 and May 31 the following year).

I totally agree!! DVC cannot even seem to keep track of which home resort transferred points are from....so, I find it difficult to believe that they will make a "notation" on a member number that NO transfers could be made because they were made by the same member under a different member number. It just seems like too much of a hassle for DVC to actually police.

I am still betting that if you have TWO member numbers, that you will get TWO transfers as long as you are not transferring to yourself.



Beca

 

[Beca]

Actually it's the way it's defined in our older documents. Starting with the multi site POS that included SSR in 2003, unlimited transfers one way per use year were specified. More specifically, no limitations were included other than in OR out but not both. Seems everyone has forgotten that FACT. I'm not sure this will hold up without having the members vote on it. The way I read the POS, any change that adversely affects the members would need approval of the members themselves and not the voting representative. But overall I don't think it's a big deal and suspect it will have little effect one way or another for most members. IF I were one adversely affected, I'd file a complaint with DVC, ask for arbitration then file a complaint with the state of FL. I suspect DVC will back down or put it to a vote of the members, something they've never done. But if it indeed hold to be true, it will hurt members far more than renters IMO. And I'd frankly be surprised if the rule was even changed, more likely a zealous employee who read old documents and is telling others at MS wrong info, but we shall see.

These have always been handled on a case by case basis and DVC has routinely bent certain rules when appropriate. For example, one must have all points in ONE contract for DCL and the like. This is a technical issue where DVC will make it work even if it means transferring banked/borrowed points.

It would have to be per contract or else DVC would have to give all the same benefits for multiple contracts you get if all in one including aggregate banking totals. Can't have it both ways. If it were per member, each member on each contract would get a transfer.

Dean!!!! I've been missing you ALL DAY!!! I was hoping you could come and give us your spin on this!!!

I am VERY interested in your comments that the POS was changed. I certainly think that is something we should consider.

I do not like the fact that people are renting "en masse" rooms for the purpose of renting to others on ebay, but I dislike even more the sudden change in the procedures that so many have come to depend on. I don't see how less flexibility is good for us, or our investment.

Thanks for your advice!!!



Beca

 

[kimberh]

Actually it's the way it's defined in our older documents. Starting with the multi site POS that included SSR in 2003, unlimited transfers one way per use year were specified. More specifically, no limitations were included other than in OR out but not both. Seems everyone has forgotten that FACT. I'm not sure this will hold up without having the members vote on it. The way I read the POS, any change that adversely affects the members would need approval of the members themselves and not the voting representative. But overall I don't think it's a big deal and suspect it will have little effect one way or another for most members. IF I were one adversely affected, I'd file a complaint with DVC, ask for arbitration then file a complaint with the state of FL. I suspect DVC will back down or put it to a vote of the members, something they've never done. But if it indeed hold to be true, it will hurt members far more than renters IMO. And I'd frankly be surprised if the rule was even changed, more likely a zealous employee who read old documents and is telling others at MS wrong info, but we shall see.

These have always been handled on a case by case basis and DVC has routinely bent certain rules when appropriate. For example, one must have all points in ONE contract for DCL and the like. This is a technical issue where DVC will make it work even if it means transferring banked/borrowed points.

It would have to be per contract or else DVC would have to give all the same benefits for multiple contracts you get if all in one including aggregate banking totals. Can't have it both ways. If it were per member, each member on each contract would get a transfer.

Dean, Thank you for this. I hope this gets pursued further. I really don't like the fact that one day it's being done and the next it's not. My question is, Why was it being done to start with? Maybe this is why!!!!

 

[KANSAS]

Beca
I own (8) use years, so I could (8) transfers
but only (1) transfer in or (1) transfer out

It does not matter/how many contracts or which Dvc resorts those contracts are related to

I confirmed this with DVC/MS today







Oh...so, if a person has two UY's, they can have TWO transfers?

Obviously, the exception to this would be if they transferred to/from themselves...that one transaction would be a transfer for each use year?

I hope I am understanding this right.

Thanks!

Beca

 

[Beca]

Actually it's the way it's defined in our older documents. Starting with the multi site POS that included SSR in 2003, unlimited transfers one way per use year were specified. More specifically, no limitations were included other than in OR out but not both. Seems everyone has forgotten that FACT. I'm not sure this will hold up without having the members vote on it. The way I read the POS, any change that adversely affects the members would need approval of the members themselves and not the voting representative. But overall I don't think it's a big deal and suspect it will have little effect one way or another for most members. IF I were one adversely affected, I'd file a complaint with DVC, ask for arbitration then file a complaint with the state of FL. I suspect DVC will back down or put it to a vote of the members, something they've never done. But if it indeed hold to be true, it will hurt members far more than renters IMO. And I'd frankly be surprised if the rule was even changed, more likely a zealous employee who read old documents and is telling others at MS wrong info, but we shall see.

Thanks, Dean for noticing this. I just looked at my POS, and no where on there does it state that transfers are limited to one per year....just one direction per year.

However, I did just find something VERY interesting on the last page of my POS.

Here is is:

3. Amendments: DVCMC reserves the right to amend these rules and regulations, in its sole, absolute, and unfettered discretion. These changes may effect a club member's right to use, exchange and rent the club member's ownership interest and impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her ownership interest and the appurtenant club membership. Club members will be notified of any such changes through member services publications. Current publications supercede prior publications with respect to the terms and conditions of these rules and regulations.

So, I'm not sure how much say we will really have in the matter (though, I suspect complaining might go a long way). However, it does seem to me that DVC, in the very least cannot actually enforce this change to my POS until I have received the change in writing through a member services publication.

I also wonder if this change could be enforced for those who purchased when the POS actually said ONE transfer per year (as mine does not say).

However, it does appear that DVCMC may have the right (or, at least they THINK they do) to change this rule. However....they have, as of yet followed their OWN guidelines for doing so.



Beca

 

[DBBN]

Actually it's the way it's defined in our older documents. Starting with the multi site POS that included SSR in 2003, unlimited transfers one way per use year were specified. More specifically, no limitations were included other than in OR out but not both. Seems everyone has forgotten that FACT.

The last Multi-site Public Offering Statement I've received is dated 7/2001. Have any of you other posters to this thread not received the POS Dean is referring to? TIA.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Dean, Thank you for this. I hope this gets pursued further. I really don't like the fact that one day it's being done and the next it's not. My question is, Why was it being done to start with? Maybe this is why!!!!

Not unlike room occupancy limits.

 

[greenban]

I received 2 transfers today before I knew about this. Both in the same account from different people. Maybe because it was the first day and they were being nice.

You were very lucky, I was denied transfers all day yesterday!

-Tony

 

[RobDoc]

... I'm not sure this will hold up without having the members vote on it. The way I read the POS, any change that adversely affects the members would need approval of the members themselves and not the voting representative. ...

Thanks for the information from the 2003 POS, but what language in the documents suggest to you that a vote would be necessary for changes to be made? The only references I can think of regarding a vote would be to replace DVC as management for the resorts or for a maintenance fee increase greater than 15% in a year. No vote was taken to make the other changes that have taken place over the years- including the one you referenced above.

 

[Plutofan]

A Use Year would begin on the date your UY begins (ie- September 1, 2006 thru August 31, 2007). If you have two Use Years, then each contract would have it's unique 365 day period.

The POS is rather vague (IMO) regarding Transfers in that is does state "per member" and not "per contract". In that sense, I suppose they could interpret it as one Transfer per unique member name. I think that could be difficult to monitor for those with multiple contracts, but I am not sure how that will be handled. I'm reasonably certain that all contracts under one Master Contract wil be counted as one (ie- if you have a June UY with 200 points at OKW, 50 at BWV and 50 at BCV- all would be counted as one "member" and would be allowed one transfer (total) each year between June 1 and May 31 the following year).

My POS dated 2/11/2004 states per membership:

During a given Use Year, a Club Member may, per membership, either Transfer or receive Transfered Vacation Points, but may not both Transfer and receive Transferred Vacation Points.

 

[mel&me]

The last Multi-site Public Offering Statement I've received is dated 7/2001. Have any of you other posters to this thread not received the POS Dean is referring to? TIA.

I have the multi site POS Dean mentioned it is dated 7/2003 I received it when I bought.

 

[Plutofan]

Boy do I wish that I could get some time off to go to each 2006 Condominum Meeting in December. I guess Disney better reserve several convention halls. May be they could do a live feed over the internet. Who is going to be our representative that will keep us informed of the discussions? I can not wait to hear a report.