Newest Ms Change!

[RobDoc]

My POS dated 2/11/2004 states per membership:

During a given Use Year, a Club Member may, per membership, either Transfer or receive Transfered Vacation Points, but may not both Transfer and receive Transferred Vacation Points.

Is there any language limiting transfers to ONE per Use Year or just the vague language in the quote above? The statment above does not have a limit as in earlier POS documents, but does not specifically allow multiple transfers either. It does clarify that transfers are allowed per membership rather than per member.

 

[Simba's Mom]

I wondered that too. I am brand new to all of this so I am sure that I don't understand everything, but unless it was a family member or a REALLY good friend, I can't imagine people just transferring points without getting some type of compensation.

As a newbie to WDW and DVC, I have learned a lot on these boards and I am thankful to everyone!

I'm kind of puzzled by the same thing. I've always wondered if renting is really within the DVC rules, but so many people do it.
OK, I just saw in another post a quote from DVC that renting points IS allowed. However, this whole transfer thing is still a little confusing.

 

[Plutofan]

Is there any language limiting transfers to ONE per Use Year or just the vague language in the quote above? The statment above does not have a limit as in earlier POS documents, but does not specifically allow multiple transfers either. It does clarify that transfers are allowed per membership rather than per member.

I could not find any other language in my POS limiting the number of transfers to one.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I own at BWV, purchased from Disney in 2005. In the DVC Membership Agreement for BWV (Exhibit G to the Declaration of Condominium, recorded 8/6/96), Section 4.8 states that Transfers are governed by the Home Resort Rules and Regulations and Section 3.4 states that the Home Resort Rules and Regulations may be promulgated by DVCMC from time to time. These are on pages 165 and 161 of my "Red Book."

The Home Resort Rules and Regulations I have were revised as of 5/2004 and contain no 1 per year limit. For those interested, Transfers are governed by Article II, Section 6, which begins on page 43 of my "Black Book."

I agree with other posters that DVCMC can change these rules from time to time without Member approval. I would, however, expect to see an update to the Home Resort Rules and Regulations for each DVC property or at least a "Member Services publication" thorough which members are to be notified of changes under Article VI, Section 3 of the Home Resort Rules and Regulations.

If you are denied a right to transfer, I suggest requesting a copy of the written rule.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[kimberh]

This may have been said but I have just closed in July on Boardwalk and received docs from Disney. My POS is dated 2/2006. On page 46 #10 it says: During a given Uy a Club Member may, per membership, either Transfer or receive Transferred Vacation Points, but may not both Transfer and receive Transferred Vacation Points. When I called MS yesterday, He told me it was in my POS about the one transfer. I am going to call them and tell them it is not in MY POS dated 2/2006.

Kim

 

[crisi]

Facinating...I agree with Beca's analysis - this helps close the hole of transfers not retaining home ownership and helps reduce "commercial" renting.

It also reduces the number of calls to MS - greenban was probably not the only person calling twice in a day to make two different transfers. That will reduce MS growth.

It makes it harder for members to undercut Disney and turn a profit - no more transferring someone's distressed points, laundering them in the transfer into good clean points with your own home resort, and selling them at a premium. Or - at least - you can only do it once a year.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Just to confirm what others are saying, I too was told today of the "new enforcement" of the transfer policy and the Members Only policy.

The MS CM's were issued an advisory on both these issues, so they are only telling you what they have been advised, they are not versed in what the actual POS says.

You will probably have to escalate the call or contact QA for their legal opinion of this latest interpretation.

 

[littlestar]

I bet Disney is closing a loop hole where some people (probably mainly the commercial renters) had figured out how to get around the 11/7 month booking windows with transferred points.

There is always somebody trying to "beat" the system.

 

[Beca]

Boy do I wish that I could get some time off to go to each 2006 Condominum Meeting in December. I guess Disney better reserve several convention halls. May be they could do a live feed over the internet. Who is going to be our representative that will keep us informed of the discussions? I can not wait to hear a report.

Don't hold your breath for results from the meeting!!! I went last year (to the BCV one), and I was VERY "unpopular"!! I wanted to discuss the decision to take away the "Epcot view" request, and see if there was a way to assign home resort members to their room first, then other DVC members, and renters/exchangers last. This was in response to a LOT of renters posting on here what WONDERFUL SSE views they had received on the 5th floor, and members saying, "Gee...I've never received one of those views."

Let me tell you this....it is an hour of "legal poopoo" where you watch the management and our "representative" vote on things, then they give the sales pitch, and then they open the floor for about 10 minutes.

The managers and reps in that room were SOOO nervous...I swear you could've cut the tension with a knife!! It made me think that it must be REALLY tough to be a manager at WDW....ALL of the managers (except the GM and Jim Lewis) were shaking when they stood up to talk. The vibe was definitely VERY weird.

When members started asking questions, they were questions like, "When are we going to get new DVC merchandise?" and, "How about some more BCV specific merchandise? Right now, if I want a shirt to say that I am a DVC BCV member, I have to have a hometown embroidery shirt put "Beach Club Villas" on my items. It would be SOOO nice not to have to worry about that."

Then, there were the MANY people who just wanted to tell how long they had owned at DVC, and how much their ownership had meant to them. Then, I stood up to ask about giving home members 1st choice of requests, then other DVC members, then renters....the GM responded, "We don't have time for some sort of 'pecking order'. That has never happened and never will!" Yikes!!! I was the ONLY one who asked a question about changing policy, and he was not happy about it!!!

The other "intersting" thing was that, we were BCV owners staying at BCV during the time of the member meeting. MANY other people at the meeting told me they received an invitation to come to the meeting...some who actually owned at other DVC resorts....yet, we did not. Not sure why some people get invites and others don't. And yet, after that question (and one more that they did not appreciate...about giving us back our "Epcot view" requests), I don't expect an invite to the next meeting!!

But, seriously....after it was all done....I just wished I had my hour and 15 minutes back!!

I guess what I am trying to say is....if you have something to say, find another channel....it is NOT going to be truly "discussed" in the member meeting.



Beca

 

[greenban]

Crisi:

I never call to make a transfer, the Owner transferring the points makes the calls. My calls are either to book a reservation, or to gossip. (I'm a very lonely frog!).



-Tony

Facinating...I agree with Beca's analysis - this helps close the hole of transfers not retaining home ownership and helps reduce "commercial" renting.

It also reduces the number of calls to MS - greenban was probably not the only person calling twice in a day to make two different transfers. That will reduce MS growth.

It makes it harder for members to undercut Disney and turn a profit - no more transferring someone's distressed points, laundering them in the transfer into good clean points with your own home resort, and selling them at a premium. Or - at least - you can only do it once a year.

 

[crisi]

Crisi:

I never call to make a transfer, the Owner transferring the points makes the calls. My calls are either to book a reservation, or to gossip. (I'm a very lonely frog!).



-Tony

You and all those - what was it - lonely Florida retirees - calling MS to chat? Maybe they should set up a chatline for you guys.

 

[JimMIA]

Once the dust settles, I wouldn't be surprised to see some case-by-case flexibility. It would only take a few seconds to look at an account and identify frequent transfers or rental behavior, and then accommodate "special requests" for folks who aren't trying to do anything more than plan a big family trip.

 

[greenban]

Once the dust settles, I wouldn't be surprised to see some case-by-case flexibility. It would only take a few seconds to look at an account and identify frequent transfers or rental behavior, and then accommodate "special requests" for folks who aren't trying to do anything more than plan a big family trip.

Yes, and I agree that would be nice, but the first time someone posts....

"PIXIE DUST CAME THROUGH, MS MADE AN EXCEPTION FOR ME"....

Everyone denied, will (rightfully) call and complain, and there goes that option.

Also, what is excessive? 10 Transfers for the guy booking the GV for his family for 10 days, or 3 large transfers to me?

Who makes that decision?

I think, until the dust settles, excepting for MS-Advisor mistakes, it will be 1 transfer per membership # per year. Case-By-Case exceptions will require Quality Control's formal blessing.

JMHO, YMMV!

-Tony (On the DIS non-stop, because MS hung up on me!)

 

[Mike]

Well here is the announcement hot of the presses in the Vacation Magic email:

Policies protect personal use and enjoyment
In a continuing effort to maximize Members' personal enjoyment of their Membership, Disney Vacation Club would like to remind Members about several related policies outlined in the Public Offering Statement and other Member documents.

As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of Owners, their lessees, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit.

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered.

Additionally, current policies limit Vacation Point-transfer transactions to one transfer per Member or Membership, either as transferee or transferor, during a given Use Year.

"We want to ensure that Members have the greatest opportunity to enjoy the magic of Membership," said Leigh Anne Nieman, Director of Business Standards and Regulatory Affairs for Disney Vacation Club. "With that in mind, we're committed to maximizing the availability of Ownership Interests and accommodations for Members' personal enjoyment, and we're committed to enforcing the policies that help us deliver on that commitment."

It has always been the policy of Disney Vacation Club that Membership is designed specifically to provide long-term personal enjoyment, and Members shouldn't purchase their Membership as an appreciable short-term investment.

 

[crisi]

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered.

If I had ever been tempted to rent or recommend renting in the past, this kills it for me.

Innocent renter rents points from "commercial" member.

Innocent renter pays up from (because that is what we all do to keep from getting stiffed).

DVC cancels reservation having identified a pattern of rental activity for profit.


!!!!!!

 

[Monte Cristo]

I guess this is their version of you are hereby notified.

 

[JimMIA]

Yes, and I agree that would be nice, but the first time someone posts....

"PIXIE DUST CAME THROUGH, MS MADE AN EXCEPTION FOR ME"....

Everyone denied, will (rightfully) call and complain, and there goes that option.

You're right...and someone absolutely will do the Pixie Dust post.

Also, what is excessive? 10 Transfers for the guy booking the GV for his family for 10 days, or 3 large transfers to me?

I didn't say excessive; I just said the patterns are easily identifiable. It's not the transfers themselves which DVC objects to, it's the commercial rental activity.

It's easy. I look at two accounts to see whether to allow requested transfers.

One account shows an owner who makes 1-3 ressies a year, and the overwhelming majority of those are made, and remain, in their name. The account also shows little or no transfer activity.

The other owner makes dozens of ressies a year, mostly in other names. They also make 4-5 BCV ressies in the 11 month window for F&W. All of those F&W ressies are made initially in their name, but later changed to other names -- all of which sound suspiciously like catfish, not amphibians. The account also shows lots of transfer activity. [ETA: Don't anybody take this the wrong way -- I like Tony a lot and I'm just poking fun at his er, unusual attraction to frogs.]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to distinguish between the uses of the two accounts.

Who makes that decision?

An MS manager, but anybody can spot the patterns.

Incidentally, if they really want to stop commercial renting, Disney auditors already have software that will permit them to search ALL DVC accounts for those patterns automatically. For 100,000 accounts, I doubt if it would take them more than a couple of hours. I seriously doubt that it's a serious enough issue for them to do that, but it's just ordinary, every-day auditing and they already use the software.

 

[JimMIA]

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered.

Thanks Mike.

And I agree with Crisi, that would be a terrible thing for MS to do. In addition to the obvious devasting effect on the renters, it would make Mickey look like the Grinch on crack!

I'd hope they'd contact the entrepreneur and give them a week or so to contact the renters and refund or otherwise protect them.

 

[kimberh]

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for profit is discovered.

I just have to reply to this... We were renters before we bought into DVC. Disney is upgrading people fron Allstars into SSR one bedrooms. Why, do you think they are doing that? This is for the upcoming "free dining special" , Disney wants people to get a taste of DVC. Renting is free advertising for the DVC. I agree that the Ebay Commercial Renting taking all the best weeks is wrong. What is wrong with finding someone that just wants to stay at Disney, like you and me? You find someone's points that they were not going to use and book them where ever there is a vacanacy. Most of these people are within the 2-5 month window. They take what they can get. It's the people that don't use their points every year that are going to be hurt and Disney is going to lose a lot of free Advertising. The renters will go to another timeshare. They are all over Orlando, in case Disney has forgotten. I am still deciding if I am going to keep both of mine. I may sell one. The flexibility was what I liked about it.

 

[missymouse]

I just have to reply to this... We were renters before we bought into DVC. Disney is upgrading people fron Allstars into SSR one bedrooms. Why, do you think they are doing that? This is for the upcoming "free dining special" , Disney wants people to get a taste of DVC. Renting is free advertising for the DVC. I agree that the Ebay Commercial Renting taking all the best weeks is wrong. What is wrong with finding someone that just wants to stay at Disney, like you and me? You find someone's points that they were not going to use and book them where ever there is a vacanacy. Most of these people are within the 2-5 month window. They take what they can get. It's the people that don't use their points every year that are going to be hurt and Disney is going to lose a lot of free Advertising. The renters will go to another timeshare. They are all over Orlando, in case Disney has forgotten. I am still deciding if I am going to keep both of mine. I may sell one. The flexibility was what I liked about it.

Where is this information about Disney upgrading people from Allstars to SSR one bedroom? Think I missed this announcement. Also what is the upcoming "free dining special" you are referrring to and how does A=B?