Getting on a plane? DON'T COUGH too much . . .

[caitycaity]

doesn't surprise me that this was continental. i am a frequent flier and the three times i flew with continental resulted in the three weirdest experiences of my life when it comes to flying (all were the fault of the airline - not weather or anything like that). 3 strikes and you're out in my book; i haven't flown with them since.

 

[dodukes]

I bolded these two parts because what does "not really contagious" mean? Is that like sort of pregnant? You are or you aren't.
You also stated that you wouldn't want to sit next to some oozing person. Sure we know stuff like that happens but sometimes you have to be realistic. We have changed flights when our kids were really sick until they were able to fly. Things happen sometimes and you have to make adjustments. It goes both ways.

Well of course I wouldnt want to but I woudltn deny them boarding. I cant control that they mayhave gotten sick afew days before a big vacation or maybe they are heading toa funeral and will miss it. Theres a lto fo things I dotn like but I cant controil them and I deal with them. Sorry but I am not changing flights or expect anybody too if its a planned vacation that I can at no other time take and will have to pay to cancel, jsut for a common cold. Colds are everywhere , its a fact of life, do you venture outside during cold and flu season? Maybe we should ban people from the malls and grocery stores if they are coughin as to not contaminate the food. Where does it end?

And what I mean by not really contagious is just that and like someone else explained. I have allergies and I will cough year round and i am not contagious as allergies are not something i can pass to someone. I didnt say it meant being a little contagious or not, I think you may have read it wrong.

My thought is that the pilot was erring on the side of caution because he could not be sure that she wasn't contagious/infectious to the other passengers not so much because her coughing would be an inconvenience to other passengers. He was probably also very concerned for her own well being. What the heck was he supposed to do if she started having severe respiratory distress over the ocean....can't just land on a dime.

We flew from Fl. Lauderdale to Boston a couple of weeks ago. I am asthmatic and whatever I catch now goes to my lungs. While waiting in the airport, I can't tell you how many people were hacking and sneezing around me. I cringed but what can you do? I didn't have a choice and I boarded the plane...so far so good.

BTW, as far as compensation for the pilot's decision, I think people are out of line for expecting anything.

Like the other posters, anything can happen at anytime. Im sure had she had a moment to relax maybe her coughin would have stopped. Who knows and nobody will. When I am sick I cough nonstop, meaning i dont stop coughin for the 48 hours i am sick doesnt mean its one after the other or anything.

Unfortuantely you have to take care of yourself. There are other things you can catch from other people that may not be obvious and nobody is checking on those, so I think this is out of line. And yes if I was inconvenienced for a simple cold, i would want compensation in the form of my hotel night covered and any expenses that i would not have otherwise incurrred if I had been allowed to travel on my original flight.

My allergies have been bothering me lately and I have coughing spells. I flew several weeks ago and boarded with extra water, cough drops and meds so I wouldn't disturb fellow passengers on a red eye.

I still had several outbursts of coughing and worried that a F/A would say something.

I feel for the girl but understand the pilots concern.

I totally understand because I cough with my allergies too, doesnt make me contagious tho.

Not to be rude, but I think you are missing my point. There are hundreds of medical emergencies that can happen to people with a pre-disposition for them--and there is no where that anyone needs to declare this predisposition--in fact it's most likely illegal to ask questions to find out.

There are also hundreds of things that can happen to people who have never been sick in their life. People who are ill get on planes to take long international flights every day, and the airlines allow them on without batting an eyelash. Yet a girl who is medically cleared is refused passage. Something is just terribly wrong with that picture.

The girl had a common cold. Anyone in the waiting area at the airport with her had already been exposed to it. So that's really not even an excuse. I'm not sure what the issue was with the pilot, but I think he made a very bad judgement--especially because she was cleared by a doctor. Like I said, if my doctor cleared me to fly, and I was denied passage there would be a lawsuit. I don't expect my doctor to fly the plane I'm boarding anymore than I expect the pilot to play doctor. Either one is morally and legally wrong.

Anne

Again, like many others have stated, anything can happen at any time, the chances that you are going to have breathing issues if you are nto proned to them are small, and yes like the PP mentioned, it can happen but this girl obviously had to get on another flight and I doubt that 24 hours or less made much of a difference in her cold. Why didnt the next pilot stop her from boarding?

 

[NotUrsula]

My other thought was that if this girl was on a school trip, it is almost a sure bet that her chaperones had a full medical release form for her, which would have listed any medical conditions or drug sensitivities that she had.

Sadly, the fact that she was on a school trip probably explains why she was apparently not taking any OTC meds to calm the symptoms -- the school probably has one of those ridiculous "no tolerance" rules that applies both at school and on school-sponsored outings; the kind that says that you cannot have so much as a Tylenol in your possession.

There are all sorts of conditions that can cause a chronic hacking cough but are not contagious -- emphesema and lung cancer being right at the top of the list. I'm a famously loud cougher, because I used to help my dad clear his lungs when he was dying of lung cancer, and I learned how to really put my heart and soul into a cough. I cough from the diaphragm, and trust me, the sound can clear a room, but it gets the nasties out of my body efficiently. Doesn't mean I'm any sicker than the avg. person with one of those tiny little Dolores Umbridge coughs; I just make a lot more noise.

Planes on OTW routes keep a fair complement of serious meds and emergency medical equipment on board. If this young lady had needed oxygen they would have had it available.

 

[DawnCt1]

I saw this yesterday. For me the deciding factor was that an MD cleared her as medically fit to fly. That says to me that the pilot was a butthead and CO owes the girl, the teacher, and the respective families a HUGE apology and some form of "usable" compensation. In otherwords 100 FF points isn't going to cut it.

I understand that the plane is the pilots responsibility, but this was not someone who was coughing up blood, running a high fever, or with congested lungs. If we stopped everyone from flying with a common cold, during the winter months we'd probably have to take 20-30% of the passengers off the plane.

My other concern is where would it end? What if she was coughing because she had seasonal allergies which were causing an irritating post-nasal drip? It's certainly not contagious, nor is it something that would cause the plane to have to make an emergency landing.

The pilot was absolutely wrong by deplaning her once she was cleared by the MD.

Anne

I disagree. It was the pilot's call. Just because a physician listened to her lungs and they were clear doesn't rule out the beginnings of a serious asthma attack or any other respiratory event that may have triggered an emergency landing (when there is no place to land). There are other potential issues beyond congestion.

 

[Carl]

Two years ago I sat next to a man coming back from Germany and he was sick enough that he was resting his head on the seat in front of him and sniffling all the way home. Two days later I came down with a bad cold that lasted me 3 weeks. I kinda of wish they had not let him on the plane.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

I would have to side with the pilot on this one.

I also have a hard time believing that a doctor would go out on a limb like that and declare that someone, who's not his patient, is OK to fly???

If something happened to that girl, can the doctor be held responsible and not the airline? Or was the doctor from another country and maybe was not familiar with our litigious society?

Anyone who has had kids knows first-hand how a child can get sick(er) in a matter of hours. Then what would they do?

Besides, I wouldn't want to be the people who are stuck sitting in front of her on the plane.

It was a tough decision for the pilot to make, and if I were her parents I probably would be mad too. But then again, if something had happened to her over water and they couldn't properly care for her, then what would the parents do/feel then?

Better to err on the side of caution.

 

[DawnCt1]

Two years ago I sat next to a man coming back from Germany and he was sick enough that he was resting his head on the seat in front of him and sniffling all the way home. Two days later I came down with a bad cold that lasted me 3 weeks. I kinda of wish they had not let him on the plane.

Good point. Not only does the pilot have to be concerned about an emergency with that particular passenger but the comfort and safety of the rest of the plane. While she is coughing non stop she is also aerosolizing viruses everywhere. I wouldn't want to sit next to her....or across the aisle.

 

[NotUrsula]

Why, oh, WHY are so many people hung up on the idea that it might have been an asthma attack? For a well-off young adult from a developed country to have asthma and be totally unaware of it is quite rare. (And yes, I understand that there is a first time for everything.)

Like the old saying goes, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." You might as well be sure that every cough you hear is a symptom of bubonic plague as that it is likely to be caused by undiagnosed asthma.

There are all sorts of more common (and transient) conditions that cause a cough. No doctor with any sense thinks asthma first when he/she hears a deep cough that is unaccompanied by any other obvious asthma markers.

 

[dodukes]

Why, oh, WHY are so many people hung up on the idea that it might have been an asthma attack? For a well-off young adult from a developed country to have asthma and be totally unaware of it is quite rare. (And yes, I understand that there is a first time for everything.)

Like the old saying goes, "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." You might as well be sure that every cough you hear is a symptom of bubonic plague as that it is likely to be caused by undiagnosed asthma.

There are all sorts of more common (and transient) conditions that cause a cough. No doctor with any sense thinks asthma first when he/she hears a deep cough that is unaccompanied by any other obvious asthma markers.

Honestly what I think is that people are glad that sick people are getting kicked off planes, (well just one) but that they woudl start kicking them off for being sick. I think tey have to justify how they feel and say that possibly a 16yo that im sure can tell poeple if she has anything that may be dangerous to fly with in her condition, like you said from a developed country doesnt know she has asthma or w/e else may cause her to have a breathing issue.

This is just my opinion but thats the feeling I get from this thread is that people are glad not mainly for her health but just so she wouldnt get them sick. I say wake up to the real world. I cant prohibit people from entering our building for being sick , why on a plane. Getting sick (a common cold) is part of life, you just do you the best you can not to catch one is all.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I understand everyone's point here but I MUST clarify this. You CAN have an asthma attack and have no previous history. I know because it happened to me. My kids do not have asthma but a bad cold will require the use of a nebulizer for them. It is not that rare as some seem to think it is.

Of course you can't control getting a cold but that doesn't mean that when I go anywhere I find the sickest looking person and ask if I can spend the day with them. For my kids to get a cold like this girl had it would have lasted for weeks and Nyquil wouldn't have cured them. So, I don't want to sit near someone that sick.

Also- we don't really know what transpired. Maybe the girl didn't want to take the Nyquil. I wouldn't feel very confident in some mystery doctor on an airplane diagnosing me or my kids. He may be a wonderful doctor but unless you were there you don't really know what the deal is.

Also- with kids they crash very fast but are resilient. She could have taken a turn for the worse in the 10 hours they were going to be in the air and then what? The pilot couldn't land in the middle of the ocean. If the chaperone felt the kid would be fine and thought that Nyquil would have solved the problem I doubt she would have been asked to deplane. There has to be more to this story.

DuckLite- I do agree that we can't screen everyone and what you say makes alot of sense, but in this particular situation I think the pilot had sufficient cause to make the person wait it out.

DoDukes- I also understnd the whole allergy thing. It's no fun. I just think this situation was something entirely different.

 

[hydster]

Not to mention that for the first what FIVE Hours of the flight they were within landing distance and NOT over water???????????


I mean come on. She has a cough, gets on a flight from NEW YORK CITY to HONOLULU *I assume* which means for the first FIVE Hours of this flight they COULD LAND anywhere in the country for her.

So she is going to mysteriously be ok cough wise UNTIL they hit open water and THEN five hours AFTER she started have a life threatening asthmatic attack that she might die from?

Not to mention that if she gets on the plane in NYC on continental chances are they had a layover since I think most planes don't fly direct from NYC to HNL. I looked at their website. I just did a NYC to HNL flight and most of them stop in HOUSTON which means had she had a problem on the flight they could have stopped in houston. If it was later they could have stopped at ANY state between HOUSTON and LA/SFO!!!!!!!!!

Thank god I live in the real world *most days*!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dodukes]

Heres the actual article from the lik on the last page:
-----------------
Rachel Collier arrived home yesterday from spring break one day late after being kicked off her first flight in Newark, N.J., Tuesday, when she woke up from a coughing fit.

The 16-year-old Kalani High School sophomore caught a cold during a school trip to Washington, D.C., and New York. She fell asleep while her plane was getting ready to take off and woke up coughing and gasping for breath.

"Everyone was looking at me," Collier said yesterday. "I couldn't talk because I lost my voice coughing so much. I was panicking."

The flight attendants gave her water. A passenger nearby was a doctor and said she would be OK if she took some medicine. Eventually the coughing subsided, she said.

But the captain of the Continental Airlines jet returned to the gate and dropped Collier and one of her teachers off.

"I felt it was really extreme for a coughing fit," said her mother, Stephanie Collier. "We've all had coughing fits."

Collier's experience -- getting detained or quarantined due to health concerns on airplanes -- has been repeated elsewhere as airline personnel become more cautious, said NBC and "Today Show" travel editor Peter Greenberg, who closely follows the industry.

On Monday, passengers on board a flight from Hong Kong were detained at Newark Liberty International Airport because several of them had flulike symptoms.

"In situations like (Collier's), I feel like it's the benefit for all concerned to be cautious," Greenberg said.

He said it is better that the captain had her checked before the plane took off rather than diverting the flight midair.

A spokeswoman for Continental Airlines declined to comment, but a company news release said Collier was coughing "uncontrollably" and that "the captain felt he was acting in the best interest of the passenger and other passengers on the flight."

The release also noted that the flight is more than 10 hours long, a large portion of which is over the ocean.

At first Collier and her teacher, Maile Kawamura, had to fend for themselves. They hopped on a bus to Manhattan and wandered around for two hours, looking for a hotel room, and bought clothes and toiletries since they only had their carry-ons.

Continental Airlines agreed to reimburse their expenses, Stephanie Collier said.

Despite Tuesday's incident, she still plans on taking another flight next week to Egypt with her best friend to attend a wedding.

"I am a little scared since I'm traveling Continental again and I'm not traveling with any adults," she said. "I'm hoping I'll get better by then."
-----------------

 

[Mouse House Mama]

DoDukes-
Thanks for the article. It was interesting. I still feel that you will never knwo what really transpired unless you were really there. The news is like playing telephone.

I also didn't think there were any direct flights to Hawaii. I traveled there adn did stop in Houston as that is where most of the hubs are.
I suppose there are alot of unanswered questions here.



BTW- If you ever end up sitting next to me on aplane and are having an allergy attack, I will have plenty of tisssues and would be happy to share!

 

[Ciao Mickey]

The doctors in the ER have never seen my asthmatic daughters and yet we let them diagnose and treat them, how is this different?!

Your daughters are in an ER being treated, not flying 35,000 feet over water.

In an ER you have *immediate* access to all kinds of medicine, specialists, medical equipment and an operating room if (heaven forbid) something happens to them.

Maybe the pilot had guidelines he had to follow.

 

[dodukes]

DoDukes-



BTW- If you ever end up sitting next to me on aplane and are having an allergy attack, I will have plenty of tisssues and would be happy to share!

No I agree you never know what happened.

Mama I just quoted this cuz i was cracking up, today I am typing up just fine but had it been yesterday, I dont know what I sniffed or what happend but i had the most seriously bad case of allergies yesterday, lets just say my nose doesnt want any more tissues....

Funny part is on my flight to europe i felt really bad for the girl next to me, altho i was all drugged up...lol...when we were leaving at our destination, i almost offered her some Airborne...

 

[ducklite]

I also didn't think there were any direct flights to Hawaii. I traveled there adn did stop in Houston as that is where most of the hubs are.

You can get a direct flight from EWR to Hawaii as well as several other Pacific Rim areas.

Anne

 

[goofygirl]

If they deplaned everybody who coughed and sneezed on a flight, the planes would be half empty!
The pilot was over the top.

When I flew to Dallas 2 months ago, I had Woman of a Thousand Noises seated behind me. Cough, cough, sneeze, sneeze, honking/blowing the nose, then eating/wrapper noises, then she fell asleep and snored and the cycle repeated! I wanted to kill her! LOL! But it would never cross my mind to deplane her!

I am glad I am not flying right now. (I have a cough)!

 

[DawnCt1]

Why, oh, WHY are so many people hung up on the idea that it might have been an asthma attack? For a well-off young adult from a developed country to have asthma and be totally unaware of it is quite rare. (And yes, I understand that there is a first time for everything.)

.

While there may not be classic asthma, there is certainly the possibility of asthmatic bronchitis. I consider myself a "well off adult from a developed country" and I developed an asthmatic response to a virus with no history of asthma after the age of 40. I have had two reoccurrances. But regardless of why she is persistantly coughing. Would you want to share an aisle with her?

 

[DawnCt1]

I know I wouldn't use them again if it were me or my child!!!!!!
In fact I'm pretty sure I will never use them after this incident.

Actually Continental's flights to Hawaii are rated quite well.

 

[hydster]

I understand everyone's point here but I MUST clarify this. You CAN have an asthma attack and have no previous history. I know because it happened to me. My kids do not have asthma but a bad cold will require the use of a nebulizer for them. It is not that rare as some seem to think it is.

The use of a nebulizer doesn't mean you have asthma. It means your bronchial tubes need help opening therefore your kids DON'T have asthma but EVENTUALLY require a nebulizer. Different than this girl I assume~! Do they require the nebulizer the minute they get a cold? Or does it take days before they need them? Every time they get a cold or cough do they require one or just really bad ones? How do you quantify a really bad cough when it isn't your kid? Maybe her cough was a general run of the mill cough.....maybe it wasn't I don't know none of us do but based on the information supplied in MY opinion the pilot overreacted. If the true facts ever come out and it's proven he was totally "medically" justified then I'll retract my statement but for now....it's total crap.

Of course you can't control getting a cold but that doesn't mean that when I go anywhere I find the sickest looking person and ask if I can spend the day with them. For my kids to get a cold like this girl had it would have lasted for weeks and Nyquil wouldn't have cured them. So, I don't want to sit near someone that sick.

Just because you can't see someone is sick doesn't mean they aren't. I'm sure you encounter them daily as do I. Sure NO ONE sets out looking for a sick person but you know in the reality of day to day living you WILL encounter them if you want to or not. Just because she had a cough made her no more "elligible" to get kicked off a flight than if she didn't have a cough. She bought a ticket, was deemed *at least with the article sited* medically sound enough to travel meaning she didn't have anything so circumspect and horrible that to the naked eye she was going to kill everyone in site or die on her own. Yet for a cough this poor 16 year old girl was denied passage when I'm sure if she didn't feel well she just wanted to be home with her mom in her own bed! I still think it was wrong for a COUGH!!!!

Also- we don't really know what transpired. Maybe the girl didn't want to take the Nyquil. I wouldn't feel very confident in some mystery doctor on an airplane diagnosing me or my kids. He may be a wonderful doctor but unless you were there you don't really know what the deal is.

We don't know if the girl said no to the Nyquil just like we don't know if it was truly offered or if it would have helped. That argument holds no water as there is NO way to know if she took it or not, if it would have helped on the flight or not. She was kicked off the flight for a cough....plain and simple. Not because she could have been allergic, asthmatic or any other reason........for a COUGH! Well I'd feel better about a mystery doctor diagnosing me than a PILOT OF AN AIRPLANE who has no medical training whatsoever beyond probably basic cpr/heimlich stuff. True we don't know what the whole story was there but based on what we do know I still say the pilot used the wrong judgement!!

Also- with kids they crash very fast but are resilient. She could have taken a turn for the worse in the 10 hours they were going to be in the air and then what? The pilot couldn't land in the middle of the ocean. If the chaperone felt the kid would be fine and thought that Nyquil would have solved the problem I doubt she would have been asked to deplane. There has to be more to this story.

Pilot had at worst case FIVE hours before he hit the ocean. She's fine until then? Wow that's a really odd circumstance that the first 5 hours she's fine but then her body crashes with no hint while they are over the ocean??? Um...ok. Also I don't believe the chaperone or the girl had a say. The PILOT kicked her and the chaperone off. I doubt the chaperone really wanted to hang out with a kid with a cold for another minute. If the pilot kicked them off....he kicked them off. No need for any speculation if the chaperone could have done anything....they were KICKED off a plane for a COUGH deemed medically ok by a DOCTOR but over ruled by a PILOT!
DuckLite- I do agree that we can't screen everyone and what you say makes alot of sense, but in this particular situation I think the pilot had sufficient cause to make the person wait it out.

DoDukes- I also understnd the whole allergy thing. It's no fun. I just think this situation was something entirely different.

The situation was different because the pilot made a bad judgement error plain and simple. Maybe the girl DID have allergies. Maybe not.....we don't know except what we've been told. I still say he overreacted and I hope her family and the chaperone get compensated for it!