Confederate Flag

[Blondie]

Another article of interest from my town's newspaper:

With all the recent controversy over the Confederate flag, I would like to add my opinion. The flag did not stand for slavery, but it seems as though this is what the current generation wants us to believe. It has been 150 years since the start of the Civil War and the war wasn't started over the issue of slavery, but over states' rights. The Confederate flag was the South's symbol of freedom.

To me, putting away or hiding the Confederate Flag is equivalent to putting away or hiding in the attic a Louis XVI piece of furniture. As we all know, Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette were beheaded by the masses who arose against them at the beginning of the French Revolution. The people hated Louis XVI and all he stood for, but period pieces retaining his name are proudly owned and displayed around the world.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of a Southern society that once existed. Except for the battlefields, there are few tangible examples of that period that still remain today. The flag is one of them. I don't believe that, on the whole, the people or places that want to display the Confederate flag mean this to be in any way a slur on any race or belief. It is just a regional symbol of a time in history.

According to the First Amendment, people are guaranteed the right of free speech or expression. Saying that those who wish to display the flag proudly can't infringes on their rights. This is exactly what is happening today.

You can always find someone or some group that objects to whatever is in the news at the time. We need to place more emphasis on what is important rather than trying to make something controversial and race-related out of nothing. Flying a flag isn't harmful--only the meaning placed upon it in the hearts and minds of others is damaging.

 

[bfeller]

I look at it as part of American History. It is a flag that stood for part of our country. It is an outdated flag just like the one that Betsy Ross made with 13 stars in a circle.

I am not offended by the flag. I am offended by people who are judgmental towards other people based on color, race, religion, sex or sexual preference.

 

[helenabear]

Originally posted by bfeller
I look at it as part of American History. It is a flag that stood for part of our country. It is an outdated flag just like the one that Betsy Ross made with 13 stars in a circle.

I am not offended by the flag. I am offended by people who are judgmental towards other people based on color, race, religion, sex or sexual preference.

Very nicely said That's pretty much exactly how I feel.

 

[Beauty]

AFR-

I'm not for one second denying that slavery was a part of the Civil War...I'm not for one second denying that my ancestors probably had slaves. I am saying that when I look at the Rebel Flag I see my history and heritage.....I do not see slavery and hatred. I am not a racisit nor do I agree with slavery...just as I'm sure you didn't agree with the North selling them to the south. Like it or not I'm sure 99 percent of all people have skeletons in their closet that they aren't proud of.

What I am saying is the way I look at the flag and my beliefs where it is concerned. I do believe I have that right as an American.

 

[Steve H.]

Originally posted by Beauty
AFR-

I'm not for one second denying that slavery was a part of the Civil War...I'm not for one second denying that my ancestors probably had slaves. I am saying that when I look at the Rebel Flag I see my history and heritage.....I do not see slavery and hatred. I am not a racisit nor do I agree with slavery...just as I'm sure you didn't agree with the North selling them to the south. Like it or not I'm sure 99 percent of all people have skeletons in their closet that they aren't proud of.

What I am saying is the way I look at the flag and my beliefs where it is concerned. I do believe I have that right as an American.

I don't think anyone's denying you the right to have that belief, BTW. They may disagree with that belief, but that's not saying you don't have the right to say it.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Here I go agreeing with Eros.. this is getting scary Could I be changing into a Liberal.. nah, never happen...

As far as I am concerned... anyone can display whatever flag they want.. I do not associate the Confederate Flag with the KKK.. I think of it as a representation of pride for the Southern states just as someone may display the flag of their own heritage...

Also, interestingly, I deal in antique jewelry and was surprised to see swastikas on Victorian jewelry as well as Native American...Too bad Hitler borrowed that symbol as I would not buy a Victoriana piece or Native American with that symbol on it,....I just can't wear it or buy it as an investment...but am amazed at those who collect that sort of thing, including Nazi items.. To each his own..

 

[gepetto]

Originally posted by Beauty


I am about as far from a racist as a person can get. I believe that everyone was made equal and I believe that slavery was very very wrong.

Does it ever make your black friends uncomfortable when they come over and see your home decorated in civil war artifacts and your son's confederate flag in his room?

 

[Beauty]

Actually no it doesn't make them feel uncomfortable. One of the funniest conversations I can remember centered around one of my Old South Prints from a home in Louisiana......Oh and my son and his black friend (they are in school together) both have the Rebel Flag Tommy Hillbilly shirt that they both think is hillarious. When a person knows a person and knows whats in their heart then they know when a person is racist or not. I don't think for a second that my friends would ever think that of me....they know me for the person I am and know they are welcome in my home anytime. After all we are both Southern.....and she wasn't a slave and I didn't own one.

 

[janette]

We own a Confederate Flag, my DH has displayed it in his room at the old house but hasn't unpacked it here.

I would rather it not be up, I don't equate it with hate groups but know that some people who display the flag do so to offend and to remind people of their racist beliefs. That is reason enough for me not to want it around. I don't need a reminder of a very sad part of history, not much to take pride in on either side.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

A similar issue arose in Rhode Island, regarding it's full name "State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations"...the longest state name, for the smallest state. As a northerner, I feel uncomfortable with the Confederate flag and what I see as its connection to slavery; as a Rhode Islander, I DON'T associate the word "Plantation" with slavery. Yet, the arguments for and against both (the Confederate Flag and the use of the word Plantation) are very similar. Which just goes to show that everyone is going to see the issues from their own point of view.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38bf4f1e63b0.htm

Rhode Island and Slavery? How Much to Read Into an Old Name

Source: The New York Times
Published: February 26, 2000
Posted on 03/02/2000 21:35:26 PST by Terry in Queens

If the presidential candidates thought they were finished with bitter and parochial historical debates like whether the Confederate flag should fly over South Carolina's state capitol, they were mistaken. Tiny Rhode Island, which will hold its primary on March 7, could offer another uncomfortable controversy.

At a breakfast last month in honor of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., the Rev. Virgil Wood, a pastor in Providence and president of the Ministers' Alliance, a group of African-American clergy in the state, announced a campaign to remove the word "plantations" from Rhode Island's official name. Most people probably don't realize that its full name is State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations.

Resentment over the name has simmered in the state's small black population for years to little effect. But the conflict in South Carolina revived the issue, igniting a new debate over the state's slave-era history.

Within a week of Mr. Wood's remarks, an editorial in the Providence Journal opposed changing the state's name, arguing that the word plantations had little to do with slavery at the time it was attached to the state name. "The slave trade was important to the later Colonial economy of Rhode Island, but slavery itself never was essential to farming here or comparable to its institutionalization in the South," the paper wrote. "To eradicate the word because of later associations in another part of the country makes no sense. It panders to outright ignorance of history."

Critics immediately responded that it was the Journal that was ignorant of history. On the Web site of The American Prospect magazine, Jeremy Derfner wrote that the Journal's reaction was consistent with a long record of denial of the prominence of slavery in New England as described by the historian Joanne Pope Melish in her 1998 book, "Disowning Slavery: Gradual Emancipation and 'Race' in New England, 1780-1860" (Cornell University Press).

Ms. Melish, an associate professor of history at the University of Kentucky, writes that on the eve of the Revolution one of every 14 people in Rhode Island was a slave, the largest proportion in all the New England colonies. She argues that the need to portray a virtuous North battling the slave-holding South during the Civil War resulted in the creation of a "mythology of a free New England" in the antebellum period and that the notion persists to this day.

Apart from the central role that the ports of Bristol, Providence and Newport played in the slave trade, Professor Melish makes the case that slavery was far more important to New England's economy than is commonly recognized by historians.

"What New Englanders like to do is admit the trade and deny the domestic institution of slavery," she said in an interview.

Professor Melish and with other historians acknowledge that plantation is a medieval English word describing farmlands that had no direct connection to slavery when Rhode Island received its royal charter in the 17th century. The state's name refers to settlements on the island where Newport is, which was then known as Rhode Island, and to those on the mainland, which were collectively called Providence Plantations.

That makes little difference to Mr. Wood, who argues that African-Americans are still pained by the word. "It is a requirement of a civil society that it does not insult some of its citizens knowingly," he said. "And there is no longer any room for not knowing."

Leading politicians in the state have not rallied to his call. Lisa Pelosi, spokeswoman for Gov. Lincoln C. Almond, a Republican, said that he "is inclined not to be in favor of changing the name of the state" but added that he could change his mind if the idea became more popular.

The state's full name appears only on official proclamations and some official stationery. "Most people don't refer to the state as Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, but some people have become very vested in the name all of a sudden," said David N. Cicilline, a Democratic state representative. "I'm not exactly sure why."

Mr. Cicilline said the name should be changed because "it carries the vestiges of a hurtful time in American history, and we don't need it." He recently introduced a bill that would convene a constitutional convention, which is required to revise the state's charter.

But Keith Stokes, the executive director of the Newport Chamber of Commerce, a local historian who is an expert on early African-American and Jewish settlement in the area and an African-American, said that changing the name would be "at best historical revisionism and and at worst downright censorship."

Though he is sympathetic to Mr. Wood's cause, he said the point should be to help people understand the complexity of the past, not to erase it. "History is history," he explained. "We can't revise it for the people of today."

Professor Melish, who grew up in Connecticut and lived for many years in Rhode Island, supports changing the name because "its continued use gives the subordination of African-Americans a sort of currency." The name is also objectionable, she said, because it appears to endorse the domination of the rest of the state by the city of Providence.

 

[EROS]

Farewell to the Army of Northern Virginia
by Robert E. Lee

"After four years of arduous service, marked by unsurpassed courage and fortitude, the Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources.

I need not tell the survivors of so many hard-fought battles who have remained steadfast to the last that I have consented to this result from no distrust of them; but feeling that valor and devotion could accomplish nothing that could compensate for the loss that would have attended the continuance of the contest, I determined to avoid the useless sacrifice of those whose past services have endeared them to their countrymen. By the terms of the agreement, officers and men can return to their homes and remain until exchanged.

You may take with you the satisfaction that proceeds from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed, and I earnestly pray that a merciful God will extend to you his blessing and protection.

With an unceasing admiration of your constancy and devotion to your country, and a grateful remembrance of your kind and generous consideration of myself, I bid you all an affectionate farewell. "

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

but a person whos family came here pre Civil War and have never left

Wow, Dee's family came here before the Civil War and could not leave. They were mostly in chains, enslaved, beaten, killed, raped, etc.
Many blacks did fight for the south, only because they were forced to. Which, IMHO, was pretty stupid to have a white slave owner give a black slave a gun. What were they thinking?
But, back to the topic, because of the opening paragraph, I doubt we will ever see a confederate flag in our home and doubt we will ever enter anywhere that has one.

 

[betz]

 

[goofygirl]

The Confederate flag makes me a little uncomfortable. Maybe because I am a "Yankee", I dont know. When I see it, I think of rednecks or the Klan.

 

[Buckalew]

The Confederate Flag is displayed at a local high school. They are even called the Rebels. A few years ago there was a big uproar about it but I think the kids at the school agreed it had nothing to do with hate, racism or the KKK. There are blacks and whites at that school.

 

[Antonia]

Beauty - my family has been here in the South since pre-Civil War times, too. I agree so much with your posts. My great-grandfather has a Confederate marker on his grave and to me that is also a symbol of our heritage - just like the Confederate flag.
Also, I think that people in the South - blacks and whites - get along so much better than outsiders think that we do. My husband golfs with many black friends and my son has many black friends that he has met through sports.
As a nurse in a plant for years, I have made many black friends and acquaintances. Our church has some black members and often a black church choir has come to sing at our predominantly white church and have been welcomed with open arms.
Much of the controversy over the Confederate flag has not been started by local black citizens - and believe me, I know - I am from South Carolina. It is from blacks from other parts of the country who come into our state to make a stink. The actual natives, for the most part, get along. I do , however, admit that there are those "redneck" types who display the flag for the wrong reasons, but they are in the minority. I think you have to live here to truly understand it. Tonight I was the only white mother out of seven mothers serving supper to our varsity football team. We served them and we all got along - we were moms - not whites or blacks. Again - you just have to live here to get it.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by honeywolf7
Beauty, I just had to say wow to your post. I do think that the blame for how the rebel flag is seen should lie with those who have used it as a symbol of hate, not those who have used it as a symbol of history. And you're right, many, many African Americans fought for the Confederacy (and not under coercion.)

where do you get that information? as I recall from my days as a history major (granted, that was 20 years ago), the confederacy refused to allow free blacks to serve in the Army. at the end of the war a move to use slaves in the Army was bitterly fought. ultimately the Confederacy chose to use the slaves, but the war ended before any slave donned a Confederate uniform.

African-americans were very prominent in the Union forces, though.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
You're right - and the primary right that the Confederate states were seeking to retain was the right to keep slaves.

Don't take my word for it - go read the articles of secession. Slavery is mentioned throughout as a right of the South that must be retained, even it meant destruction of the Union.

I looked at my 7th grader's history text tonight. although sectionalism and state's rights did get a brief mention, the emphasis was on the Missouri Compromise, the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the formation of the Republican Party to oppose expansion of slavery into the territories.

BTW it wasn't abolition of slavery in the South that was being sought, it was only a moratorium on expanding slavery into the territories.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by Antonia
Much of the controversy over the Confederate flag has not been started by local black citizens - and believe me, I know - I am from South Carolina. It is from blacks from other parts of the country who come into our state to make a stink. The actual natives, for the most part, get along. I do , however, admit that there are those "redneck" types who display the flag for the wrong reasons, but they are in the minority. I think you have to live here to truly understand it. Tonight I was the only white mother out of seven mothers serving supper to our varsity football team. We served them and we all got along - we were moms - not whites or blacks. Again - you just have to live here to get it.

"our" balcks are good, "your" blacks are not?

 

[EROS]

"There were Black Confederate soldiers. This is a fact, not fiction. Conservative estimates state that over 50,000 African-Confederates served in the Confederate Army. Many of these men saw combat and participated in it. Some died.

Although the Confederate Congress did not authorize Colored Units in the Confederate Army until 1865, when it was too late, there were many unofficial soldiers overlooked by officers who were desperate to fill the ranks so quickly dwindling. Also, many individual Southern states authorized colored militia units. For example, Alabama in 1862.

Some would ask, "Why would they serve; why would they fight?" They served and fought for the same reasons as their white counterparts. They felt that the South was their home, too. Whether slave or free, each had a stake in the society and each had a home they felt endeared to. For example, many Charleston negroes actually cheered at the possibility that they would be able to shoot Yankees shortly after the outbreak of War.

African-Confederates not only offered their services as soldiers but also as laborers. Many colored communities took up collections for the Confederate War Effort. Even individual negroes, both free and slave, contributed their money for the Confederate Government.

The African-Confederate went to War for the South as body servants, teamsters, laborers, and even soldiers. Many saw action. Some were wounded and some were killed in defense of the South. Most were loyal and cared for their master with whom they went to war. Many cases tell of a body servant removing a wounded soldier to the surgeon or taking the body of a fallen soldier home for proper burial.

Their efforts remain largely forgotten as it does not fit into the well defined roles of the different races. It also causes the mold of the North as liberator and the South as an enslaver to crack just a little."






Individual African-Confederate


Soldiers


(Partial List)




James Russell (2)

Free man of color, Cook for Company C, 24th South Carolina Volunteer Infantry

Killed in action at Missionary Ridge on November 25, 1863



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Louis Napoleon Nelson (3)

Free man of color, Private, 7th Tennessee Cavalry (under General Forrest).

Fought at Shiloh, Lookout Mountain, Brice's Crossing, and Vicksburg.

Survived the war.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles F. Lutz (4)

Free man of color, Private, Company F, 8th Louisiana Volunteer Infantry

Fought in the Shenandoah Valley (under Stonewall Jackson, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville, and Gettysburg.

Captured and paroled twice; never betraying the Confederacy.

Survived the War



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Wilson Buckner (5)

Free man of color, Private, 1st South Carolina Artillery

Wounded on July 12, 1863 defending Battery Wagner against the 54th Mass. Infantry.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Young (6)

Status Unknown, Private, Company K, 29th Alabama Infantry.

Survived the War.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean Baptiste Pierre-Auguste (7)

Free man of color, Private, Company I, 29th Louisiana Volunteer Infantry.

Defended Vicksburg, returned home after its fall, then returned to duty during the summer months of 1864 for the rest of the War.

Survived the War.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Colen Revels (8)

Status unknown, Private, 21st North Carolina Infantry.

Wounded at Winchester and Gettysburg.

Survival of War Unknown.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silas Chandler (9)

Former Slave and Free Man of Color , Body Servant, 44th Mississippi Infantry.

Survived the War.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eli Dempsey (10)

Status Unknown, Private, 1st North Carolina Artillery

POW 1862-1864.

Survived the War.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Parker (11)

Slave, Private, Artilleryman at the Battle of 1st Manassas.

Pressed into service at the battle.

Survived the War.