Skyliner stroller red tag capacity limited ADA discrimination

[NaptownMom]

Not to be a smartass, but in the event of evacuation of a skyliner you should not pick up your infant and run. I understand you’re a lawyer but can you pick up two infants and run? Because Disney policy currently allows for more infants than adults onto the skyliner

If you're saying they should update the policy that no gondola should contain more adults than babies, sure. I agree. but it's entirely irrelevant to your claim that reducing capacity when some of the riders have mobility issues is "arbitrary."

 

[GADisneyDad14]

Re the CR-WL-FW boat route - which usually operates with two small non accessible boats - they will call for one of the larger accessible boats upon request by a guest.

 

[Just_another_figment]

No, they actually do not run both along the contemporary, wilderness lodge and fort wilderness lodge route. Or at least they do not run both at all times.

And the buses always run, and they are compliant. So if they’ve cut back on running both boats, the buses are available. Your argument of not being compliant will be thrown out since there is available transportation. Best of luck to you.

 

[Isthisnormalatdisney]

Sorry for my ignorance, but a question. The alleged discrimination is around a large group of 10 having to split into 2 gondolas on the Skyliner instead of fitting into one?

Yes correct, groups want to travel together.

 

[Isthisnormalatdisney]

If you're saying they should update the policy that no gondola should contain more adults than babies, sure. I agree. but it's entirely irrelevant to your claim that reducing capacity when some of the riders have mobility issues is "arbitrary."

If one guest has a mobility issues, then why does it matter if the skyliner has 9 other guests or 5 other guests?You understand how the gondolas are evacuated right?

 

[Isthisnormalatdisney]

Re the CR-WL-FW boat route - which usually operates with two small non accessible boats - they will call for one of the larger accessible boats upon request by a guest.

have you has this happen to you or witness this happening to others on a consistent basis? Regardless it still requires people who need an assessibile boat to wait for a non-assessable boat to arrive then tell them and then wait for the assesible boat to get there. That’s quite the burden, especially when waiting in the sun.

 

[NaptownMom]

If one guest has a mobility issues, then why does it matter if the skyliner has 9 other guests or 5 other guests?You understand how the gondolas are evacuated right?

Accommodating mobility issues with extra space to maneuver is a typical accommodation in a wide variety of settings. I'm honestly baffled by your legal theory here.

 

[Isthisnormalatdisney]

Accommodating mobility issues with extra space to maneuver is a typical accommodation in a wide variety of settings. I'm honestly baffled by your legal theory here.

Are you actually an attorney? If you read the original post you would see that the red tagged strollers and non-red tagged strollers are the exact same strollers except for a less than one ounce tag. There is no additional space needed to manuver the same stroller. Additionally, there is no space to really maneuver a stroller regardless of whether it had a red tag or not within the cabins.

I’m truly questioning if you are an attorney or not since you can’t grasp the basic issue here of treating parties differently based on a less than one ounce tag.

 

[NaptownMom]

Are you actually an attorney? If you read the original post you would see that the red tagged strollers and non-red tagged strollers are the exact same strollers except for a less than one ounce tag. There is no additional space needed to manuver the same stroller. Additionally, there is no space to really maneuver a stroller regardless of whether it had a red tag or not within the cabins.

I’m truly questioning if you are an attorney or not since you can’t grasp the basic issue here of treating parties differently based on a less than one ounce tag.

Yes. The strollers are the same. The occupants of those strollers are not. They do not, as a population, have the same mobility and maneuvering capabilities, as a population, in every possible scenario. There are non-arbitrary reasons to treat these populations differently. The weight of the tag is not relevant in the least.

 

[SteveMouse]

In the (Disney) park tags don't apply to transportation such as buses, boats, etc. as others have commented.

Even if they did, Disney would likely be in its right to constrain the number of occupants in a skyliner cabin if a mobility device is present during to safety concerns regarding evacuation and extra steps needed when managing those devices and people occupying them. I'm pretty sure there is a sufficient safety concern that maybe warrant limitations. It's basically the same issue that limits the number of accessible ride vehicles/number of disabled riders at any one time on many rides.

As to the watercraft, Disney has long provided accessible boats. Sometimes, it will alternate between a larger vessel that is capable of transporting wheelchairs and other wheeled devices and others that do not support roll-on/roll-off.

The ADA has specific regulations that apply to scheduled and/or on demand bus services.

I am curious about what section(s) of regulations you are looking at regarding a potential violation of them by Disney regarding passenger vessels. Please provide a citation.

 

[LoveDaisy]

People will sue for anything! Good luck! Disney has hundreds of lawyers so they are pretty confident when they roll out policies and they don’t back down with a threat of a lawsuit.

 

[Isthisnormalatdisney]

Yes. The strollers are the same. The occupants of those strollers are not. They do not, as a population, have the same mobility and maneuvering capabilities, as a population, in every possible scenario. There are non-arbitrary reasons to treat these populations differently. The weight of the tag is not relevant in the least.

This is exactly why the issue exists. Because what you said is discriminatory. It assumed someone’s capacities based on the mobility device they used. The ADA law actually prohibits this type of assumptions. You can’t make an assumption that a reasons someone uses a wheel chair or something is because of notability related issues. It isn’t always because of that but because of another medical condition that isn’t related to mobility.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

Are you actually an attorney? If you read the original post you would see that the red tagged strollers and non-red tagged strollers are the exact same strollers except for a less than one ounce tag. There is no additional space needed to manuver the same stroller. Additionally, there is no space to really maneuver a stroller regardless of whether it had a red tag or not within the cabins.

I’m truly questioning if you are an attorney or not since you can’t grasp the basic issue here of treating parties differently based on a less than one ounce tag.

Seems like if you really want genuine input....maybe stop the attitude. The people on this board are some of the most in tune to WDW disability issues around. I know that you know more than everyone on this board combined....but maybe slow your roll.

Does the lawyer you work for really care about fixing an issue that really isn't an issue? Or does he/she just want a payday? Because either way I think from a business perspective he should have you drive behind ambulances and chase them instead of being rude to people here.

 

[Isthisnormalatdisney]

In the (Disney) park tags don't apply to transportation such as buses, boats, etc. as others have commented.

Even if they did, Disney would likely be in its right to constrain the number of occupants in a skyliner cabin if a mobility device is present during to safety concerns regarding evacuation and extra steps needed when managing those devices and people occupying them. I'm pretty sure there is a sufficient safety concern that maybe warrant limitations. It's basically the same issue that limits the number of accessible ride vehicles/number of disabled riders at any one time on many rides.

As to the watercraft, Disney has long provided accessible boats. Sometimes, it will alternate between a larger vessel that is capable of transporting wheelchairs and other wheeled devices and others that do not support roll-on/roll-off.

The ADA has specific regulations that apply to scheduled and/or on demand bus services.

I am curious about what section(s) of regulations you are looking at regarding a potential violation of them by Disney regarding passenger vessels. Please provide a citation.

what you said is incorrect that I can’t even address it. I recommend reading the actual ada law and then editing your post

 

[NaptownMom]

This is exactly why the issue exists. Because what you said is discriminatory. It assumed someone’s capacities based on the mobility device they used. The ADA law actually prohibits this type of assumptions. You can’t make an assumption that a reasons someone uses a wheel chair or something is because of notability related issues. It isn’t always because of that but because of another medical condition that isn’t related to mobility.

Okay, go ahead and file the lawsuit, and we will see who survives MTD and who doesn't. I'm sure you're just here looking for a plaintiff anyway, maybe your DMs are blowing up.

 

[SteveMouse]

Attacking people is not going to help you in your pursuits.

If you think I said something that was incorrect, please point me to the specific regulation or law that says safety concerns are not an issue. Please also provide a citation regarding access to watercraft, as well as the accessibility standards for such vessels.

 

[MICKIMINI]

Yes correct, groups want to travel together.

Okay, that is fine but we don't always get what we want. Just because we don't always get what we want, does not make it illegal?

No, I am not a lawyer, but I am disabled. I am in massive pain all day, but it is my choice to go to WDW. I do get on the plane early in boarding and I appreciate that. I only got a DAS pass once as we really don't do lots of rides. I have to wait in line with everyone else for food, the bathroom etc. Abled bodied people like DH are also in pain with two worn out knees and a bad back. We keep good humor and leave if we are too worn out.

Respectfully, if you have to come on disboards to solicit for your lawsuit, wow.

 

[lanejudy]

no, up to ten guests can be placed within a cabin with an open (non-red tagged) stroller. That is the official policy.

When did this change? When the Skyliner was first launched in 2019 (?) it was 6 plus a stroller even from the non-accessible boarding. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't consistently enforced, though, but that doesn't mean it isn't the policy.

the red tag does have bearing on the skyliner, just like it does on the buses and monorail.

No, it does not. Monorail allows all strollers to be rolled on. Strollers must be folded for buses; stroller-as-wheelchair cannot be tied down. Bus safety standards require a tie-down kit, which cannot be used with just any old baby stroller. Only certain types of strollers can be safely tied down on a bus, regardless of what the general WDW public thinks.

It is also within the skyliner employee handbook. With that said actual enforcement is highly selective and inconsistent.

Can you share that? We've had transportation CMs post on this forum on occasion, and I don't recall even one stating the S-A-W is used for transportation. It's a topic that comes up on this forum every few months.

Remember these are the exact same strollers.

Not necessarily. Some special needs strollers may be bigger/different. I believe it can be possible to get a wagon tagged for SAW, though much more difficult than getting a stroller tagged. The tag is the same regardless of the mobility equipment.

Infants all struggle with mobility obviously, one family might get a red tag and another might not but they have the same mobility limitations.

I'm sure you are not suggesting that families with an infant are getting SAW for "mobility" purposes? That's rather laughable. Families with a disabled infant may get a SAW but it has to be for more than "my baby can't walk the queue so he needs to stay in the stroller."

Regarding the accessible cabin, that limit does not apply when the cabin is used for someone who struggles to walk into a moving cabin but otherwise uses no mobility devices, then in that case the capacity is at ten.

It's not an "accessible cabin" as all the gondola cars are the same. If someone is capable of walking onto the car it is assumed they can walk off for evacuation. Thus 10 guests are allowed into the car. I never stated a different capacity unless there is a mobility device. A "stroller as wheelchair" is a mobility device.

Correct, they don’t differentiate between electronic/power mobility devices and manual power mobility devices and that is part of the issue as the law make a clear differentiation between the two types.

Yes, when it comes to wagons that is a different situation. In this situation it isn’t involving a wagon.

So... you are saying it is legal to differentiate between different mobility devices? Or it's not legal to differentiate?

 

[lanejudy]

It is not a physical space issue

This is exactly why the issue exists. Because what you said is discriminatory. It assumed someone’s capacities based on the mobility device they used. The ADA law actually prohibits this type of assumptions. You can’t make an assumption that a reasons someone uses a wheel chair or something is because of notability related issues. It isn’t always because of that but because of another medical condition that isn’t related to mobility.

It is a physical space issue. The reason for using a mobility device doesn't matter. It's the presence of the mobility device which impacts evacuation procedures.

 

[FreeTime]

If separating my group due to having a SAW would help in the concern of an evacuation, I would surely do it. This sounds frivolous to me.