Confederate Flag

[A kid at heart]

I think of the Dukes of hazard when I see that flag!

 

[Planogirl]

Speaking of swastikas, here is a picture of a Navaho rug. http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmuseum/navaho_indian_rug.htm From the article with it:

The fylfot is an ancient symbol well known in the science of coats of arms and the other details of heraldry. It is sometimes known as the cruz dissimulata, found in the catacombs of Rome, and forms one of the symbols of the Degrees of Prince of Mercy, Scottish Rite system. It is a form of the Swastika. This symbol is also called the Jaina Cross and is used by several Orders. It is found in the abbeys of Great Britain and on the monuments of India. Its significations are many. This cross was adopted by the Jainas, a heterodox sect of the Hindu's, who dissent from Brahmanism and deny the Vedas, and whose adherents are found in every province of Upper Hindustan. They are wealthy and influential, and form an important division of the population of India. This symbol is also known as the fylfot or swastika. It is a religious symbol mentioned by Weaver in his Funeral Monuments, by Dr. H. Schliemann as having been found in the presumed ruins of Troy, by De Rossi and others in the catacombs of Christian Rome, and there termed the Cruz dissimulata, or concealed cross. It has been found on almost every enduring monument on the globe, of all ages, and in both hemispheres.

It's amazing how often the swastika was used.

This and the Confederate flag are just symbols after all and mean absolutely nothing on their own. Some of the people that use and have used these symbols in a foul manner are what scare me.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

thank you, Eros, I did not know that.

 

[sha_lyn]

The Confederate flag is a symbol of a Southern society that once existed. Except for the battlefields, there are few tangible examples of that period that still remain today. The flag is one of them. I don't believe that, on the whole, the people or places that want to display the Confederate flag mean this to be in any way a slur on any race or belief. It is just a regional symbol of a time in history.

Few example remain because Sherman's troops burned everything to the ground. In the south, especially near the Major battles like Atlanta, most of the building were burned to the ground. Very little of "our" history remains that predates the war between the states. The flag is one piece of history that we can still use as a visual reminder of the glory days of the "old south". Yes unfortunately much of that glory came from the use of slaves. Slavery has however been a part of our American and World history. The south did profit from but didn't start slavery, but it gets most of the blame for it.My family has been in the south since colonial times. There is no record that I know of showing that memebers of my family (mothers side) owned slaves. Actually if you are familiar with the Christy books,(and TV series) that mountainous region is where my family settled in the early 1700's and remained there until the late 1800's, when they move to GA.

 

[JasonLyons]

I just wanted to say there are alot of long post on this thread

 

[browneyes]

Those that I know that are irate about the banning of the flag all want to display it for negative reasons (hatred mostly). My SO is one of those people. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of southern issues. We've both lived in Georgia all our lives, but he still calls me a Yankee.

 

[sha_lyn]

Those that I know that are irate about the banning of the flag all want to display it for negative reasons (hatred mostly). My SO is one of those people. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of southern issues. We've both lived in Georgia all our lives, but he still calls me a Yankee.

That reminds me of my Ex. One of the many reasons we divorced was concerning his racial views. When the Blacks marched through Cumming GA Ex was standing on the side(of the road) with the racist while I stood on the side with those who were supporting the attempt to desegregate (sp doesn't look right but it passed spell check, oh well) the area.

My yankee in laws are actually very racist while no one in my family (that I know of) is. In my old south family we actually have a few mixed racial couples and even a same sex one. My great aunt passed away about 10 years ago. Around 5 yrs ago her husband remarried. His wife is African American (they are both in their late 60's-early 70's). He and his wife are invited (and attend) our family reunions every year. I do have to say it was a pleasant shock that someone of his generation married someone of a different race.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I just wanted to say that in NO way, shape or form do I think that Beauty is a rascist!

I didn't realize that the swastika had been used by the Navajo, prior to WW2. Who would argue now that the symbol isn't generally associated with The Nazi regime? You don't see too much Navajo art displayed in the mainstream using the swastika.

We don't have "absolute" or total freedom of speech in any society, no matter what the ACLU says. I know of a town that allowed the white supremicists to rally, and so much trouble arose that the police force had to work overtime, and several people were injured. The second time the white supremicst group wanted to rally, they were not allowed, because the town couldn't justify paying the officers overtime.

 

[honeywolf7]

Eros, thank you for posting that. I found it this morning when I went in search of actual links to information on African-American Confederate soldiers...I was gone all night last night so didn't see BriarRose's post until this AM. BriarRose, I actually first heard that in my American History class a few semesters ago.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

actually, though, the confederate flag was never part of any southern state flag until the 1950's and 1960's. it was incorporated into state flags and flown at state capitals specifically as a response to federal desegregation/civil rights legislation. I guess that's the "glory" of the Old South the legislatures of those states were seeking to honro and preserve.

I don't think anyone would be comfortable wearing that symbol of history on the streets of Crown Heights or the South Bronx.

 

[honeywolf7]

BriarRose, Roger discourages me from being in the "hood" (his name for it, not mine) anyway just because of my being white. He says he doesn't feel all that comfortable there and my going there is like him going into a KKK meeting. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable in those areas with a Confederate flag and to have one there would be in my opinion intentionally stirring the pot. Not that people don't have a right to do so, but it just wouldn't be smart.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

HW, I've been to the South Bronx. and yes, I did feel a bit "blonde" there. but they're just people.

it's the symbol that would be the problem in that neighborhood, not the person.

 

[honeywolf7]

BriarRose, to be honest I didn't feel funny about it but he worried about me. You're right though...it would be stupid to carry a symbol that you know would be perceived by some (even if you thought their perception to be wrong) as a symbol of hatred into an area where those people who perceived it that way would be the majority.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

just out of curiosity, honeywolf -- where does Roger live?

 

[honeywolf7]

He grew up in the "hood" but now lives out in the sticks. He says he may work in the city, but he wants to go home to the country.

 

[mamajoan]

I have been gone for a bit and was amazed to see this topic on the CB upon my return. I must say that I am quite proud of all of you. You have been able to discuss a 'touchy' subject with dignity.

Living in Ca, we don't see the Confederate flag on many occaisions but when we do it is usually accompanied by an NRA sticker and discouraging, outrageous racially biased bumper stickers. Therefore my opinion of the Confederate flag is negative in nature.
Agreeing with Eros on his statement regarding the fact that in the USA, Skinheads, Nazi's, KKK, and other racial hatred based groups (they claim not to hate other races but to be only proud of their white heritage) right to speak and display offensive material is protected. So is my right to "kill them with kindness". These groups feed off reactions to their obnoxious behavior. Yes, my stomach turns when I see these groups gathered spewing their hatred and ignorance. I worry more about their moles and innocuous, devious underground activities. If the enemy is marked with a bold confederate flag (which is not always the case, many display the flag with the pride of heritage) it just makes protecting my family easier.
I discussed this with my husband, who is Black, this is our combined opinion of the subject.

 

[caitycaity]

there is a debate on the db about this right now too. someone recently posted to say that the "confederate flag' we have all been discussing actually was never the official flag of the confederacy. it was the confederate "battle flag." something i thought everyone here might find interesting, i know i sure did.

knowing that, it makes even less sense to me to have states flying the confederate battle flag...shouldn't they be flying the stars and bars instead?

i guess some people (note i said some, not all) who are flying the "confederate flag" for heritage reasons don't know much about their heritage at all.

http://home.att.net/~dcannon.tenn/fotc.html

 

[JAP]

Originally posted by caitycaity
i guess some people (note i said some, not all) who are flying the "confederate flag" for heritage reasons don't know much about their heritage at all.

http://home.att.net/~dcannon.tenn/fotc.html

Can we please let that drop. Or are you intentially baiting Beauty? There are many things about my heritage that I know and learn everyday.

This can really be a good debate without trying to piss on someone else.

 

[honeywolf7]

Well, it looks like it was part of the second and third national flags.

 

[caitycaity]

yup, it was hw.

Can we please let that drop. Or are you intentially baiting Beauty? There are many things about my heritage that I know and learn everyday.

This can really be a good debate without trying to piss on someone else.

what the hell? I AM NOT trying to bait anyone, beauty included. (honestly!) i am expressing my opinion. i was surprised to find out that what i consider the "confederate flag" was not the official confederat flag. we are discussing this very civilly right now on the db, and i thought i'd bring that aspect of it over here too. i am not trying to piss anyone off, but i don't understand why the battle flag is used instead of the official flags of the confederacy. wouldn't it make sense for state capitals to fly the official flag and not the battle flag?

i honestly was not trying to stir up anything, but i think the point i made was valid.

if people are really using the flag for heritage, why wouldn't they use the official flag(s)?

i think that is a legitimate question.