What would you do? Renter wants to cancel.

[Sandisw]

Personally, I would not refund UNLESS the resort was closed, or the contract specially stated that there would be "no refund for any reason EVEN IF THE RESORT IS CLOSED". The only exception would be a cancellation by me or the failure of me to keep my account current.

IMO, it is wrong to keep renters' money if the reservation is unavailable because the resort is closed.

Of course, I don't rent so my opinion isn't worth all that much.

Your opinion is always worth it!! This is the clause I will add if I rent to a stranger. Refund of resort is closed even if I lose points in the process.

Most often I have enough family and friends to not worry about having to go that route!

 

[Sandisw]

I can sum up my position pretty simply - when I rent points, I do my best to avoid booking close the the expiration of my points, try to anticipate problems, be friendly and empathic toward emergencies, and for the most part, transactions are super smooth with no issues.

On rare occurrences (like less than 5% of all rentals) a problem develops where the renter needs to cancel and for those I do my best to try to rebook for a future date and if I can bank my points for another year, I will do that too. Technically modifying an existing reservation is easy online as we do not need to call DVC anymore. I have never been asked to sublet or transfer a current reservation to another person and I would assume that is super rare occurrence. In ten years I have not give a cash refund to anyone that cancels. However, on a few occasions, I was able to re-rent cancelled points and sent a partial refund for the points I was able to salvage. Again, this is not that time consuming and the renters were super happy and continue to rent from me and send referrals to me all the time.

2020 was a super unusual year and that created all sorts of havoc and made me realize that the market of DVC point rental is a two-way system of trust and I as the owner should do my best to help a renter out if they face a change of plans or the parks close down or travel is restricted. Hopefully this will never happen again, but who knows.

I understand some DVC owners may want a "rigid iron clad" no change rental and that is strange to me as it is not customer friendly and does not install confidence with renters that you won't make a date change when it takes 5 minutes online to do that (assuming the points are not expiring and there is availability). I deal a lot in real estate and changes to closing dates happen all the time, and a simple one page contract addendum is created.

All members can do whatever they want, be rigid or flexible as there are thousands of renters and we will not all agree. My BEST suggestion is for anyone that does NOT want to make changes or modifications to a rental - is to consider allowing modifications (per Disney rules and availability) and charge those renters a service fee or hourly rate as that at least will prevent a 100% loss of points when a renter needs to change a date. I am totally against any DVC owner that refuses to help renter change or modify a reservation and allow those points to go to waste or the room to go unoccupied (even though that may be in their contract, blab..blab...blab).

Really curious. Why would it be a problem if an owner books and lets the room go unused? Owner is losing the points that are associated with the room in those cases.

 

[Sandisw]

Its non-refundable. Whether you see it as points or a reservation or because you changed your mind or resort closure - that is the risk you are taking for a HUGE discount over rack rates - and if you are concerned, insurance is available. Can't afford the risk, don't rent the points - or at least get yourself some insurance. Once I make the reservation for you, everything else is your problem.

And I think the key is that most of us who take this approach are upfront and honest with a renter and recognize not all will want to rent from inflexible owners.

Personally, I’m fine with that. I will always offer my points at least $4 to $6 below market value for the rigid contract and so far, the renters who agreed were happy to take the risk!

 

[DVC Doctor]

Its non-refundable. Whether you see it as points or a reservation or because you changed your mind or resort closure - that is the risk you are taking for a HUGE discount over rack rates - and if you are concerned, insurance is available. Can't afford the risk, don't rent the points - or at least get yourself some insurance. Once I make the reservation for you, everything else is your problem.

Well, renting points is not always a HUGE discount vs booking direct via Disney, as sometimes it is cheaper to pay DIsney. Heck, I decided to book Aulani via a cash discount promotion as it was cheaper than using my own points one time. Also, insurance is not always as great as people think. Most have covid exclusions and with DVC the insurance sometimes only pays annual dues on points. So people really need to determine their risk and most of the time they have no idea what level of risk they are taking until it is too late. So I guess then you don't offer Magical express or Disney dining options to your renters as obviously that would be their problem, not yours as once you make the reservation, you checkout.

Your opinion is always worth it!! This is the clause I will add if I rent to a stranger. Refund of resort is closed even if I lose points in the process.

Pre-covid, the only time Disney closed was during a Hurricane and even then it was only 24 hours, so this clause is good, but probably irrelevant (hopefully).

Really curious. Why would it be a problem if an owner books and lets the room go unused? Owner is losing the points that are associated with the room in those cases.

Well, I just hate to see people waste points or let an unused room go to waste when some DVC member probably would want that and it is soooooooo easy to modify a reservation online to avoid both (assuming availability was open and the points were not expiring). But this is my opinion, not a fact and others may not feel the same way as I do

And I think the key is that most of us who take this approach are upfront and honest with a renter and recognize not all will want to rent from inflexible owners.

Personally, I’m fine with that. I will always offer my points at least $4 to $6 below market value for the rigid contract and so far, the renters who agreed were happy to take the risk!

Well, that is your choice and who determines market value as if the market value is $17pp, then you are renting points for only $11pp, and if that is the case, I would be interested in a transfer.

Finally, in my experience, it is usually TOO LATE when renters determine that they made a mistake renting from someone that refuses to modify a reservation, but again, that is their problem.

Is it really that hard or time consuming to make a modification if it is possible? Once again, I need to stress that changes or modifications or cancellations are infrequent and I am not saying to become a doormat for people to abuse this, but to refuse a modification when it is possible and easy to do and then point to a contract is bad karma in my opinion.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Here is a simply solution that should satisfy everyone.

Add a phrase in your contract such as this:

DVC point rentals are non-refundable for cash refunds; however if a modification to an existing reservation is requested and the modification is possible (i.e. dates, resort, room type are available, and the rented points have not expired), then a service fee of (insert $ amount) will be charged. If the modification will result in less points required, then those leftover points are non-refundable; and if the modification will require more points, and I have extra points available for rent, then the rental rate for the extra points will be (insert $ per point).

 

[Sandisw]

Well, renting points is not always a HUGE discount vs booking direct via Disney, as sometimes it is cheaper to pay DIsney. Heck, I decided to book Aulani via a cash discount promotion as it was cheaper than using my own points one time. Also, insurance is not always as great as people think. Most have covid exclusions and with DVC the insurance sometimes only pays annual dues on points. So people really need to determine their risk and most of the time they have no idea what level of risk they are taking until it is too late. So I guess then you don't offer Magical express or Disney dining options to your renters as obviously that would be their problem, not yours as once you make the reservation, you checkout.



Pre-covid, the only time Disney closed was during a Hurricane and even then it was only 24 hours, so this clause is good, but probably irrelevant (hopefully).



Well, I just hate to see people waste points or let an unused room go to waste when some DVC member probably would want that and it is soooooooo easy to modify a reservation online to avoid both (assuming availability was open and the points were not expiring). But this is my opinion, not a fact and others may not feel the same way as I do



Well, that is your choice and who determines market value as if the market value is $17pp, then you are renting points for only $11pp, and if that is the case, I would be interested in a transfer.

Finally, in my experience, it is usually TOO LATE when renters determine that they made a mistake renting from someone that refuses to modify a reservation, but again, that is their problem.

Is it really that hard or time consuming to make a modification if it is possible? Once again, I need to stress that changes or modifications or cancellations are infrequent and I am not saying to become a doormat for people to abuse this, but to refuse a modification when it is possible and easy to do and then point to a contract is bad karma in my opinion.

Yup! Last time I rented to a stranger it was $11/point in 2019 and board was going around $15 to $16/point. 11 month rental at BWV too.

I agree it’s not hard to change and I could do it easily. The point is I am not interested in that type of arrangement and offer rentals on terms I am comfortable with as an owner,

How do you think renters would feel if they got involved in a contract that did say they could sublet and then the owner changes their mind? Dont you think most of us would support the renter to expect that contract to be honored? I do.

Honestly, I used to recommend renting and since Covid, I dont snd bring up the risk more than I did because it really isn’t for everyone

 

[Sandisw]

Here is a simply solution that should satisfy everyone.

Add a phrase in your contract such as this:

DVC point rentals are non-refundable for cash refunds; however if a modification to an existing reservation is requested and the modification is possible (i.e. dates, resort, room type are available, and the rented points have not expired), then a service fee of (insert $ amount) will be charged. If the modification will result in less points required, then those leftover points are non-refundable; and if the modification will require more points, and I have extra points available for rent, then the rental rate for the extra points will be (insert $ per point).

Definitely an option for people interested in doing it this way.

 

[crisi]

Definitely an option for people interested in doing it this way.

Which I am not. My previous rental was through a broker, no refunds. But if I had to rent again and chose to rent direct, yeah, I'd take less for a "no changes, none, not for any reason - here is your reservation, don't bother me again."

And I've been talking to the risk of renting for years over on the budget board. Renting is a great way to save money, if you can afford to loose it. Its rare that you will, but assume that the reservation is non-refundable, for any reason - and cannot be changed.

 

[crisi]

Well, renting points is not always a HUGE discount vs booking direct via Disney, as sometimes it is cheaper to pay DIsney. Heck, I decided to book Aulani via a cash discount promotion as it was cheaper than using my own points one time. Also, insurance is not always as great as people think. Most have covid exclusions and with DVC the insurance sometimes only pays annual dues on points. So people really need to determine their risk and most of the time they have no idea what level of risk they are taking until it is too late. So I guess then you don't offer Magical express or Disney dining options to your renters as obviously that would be their problem, not yours as once you make the reservation, you checkout.

If an insurance company isn't willing to insure for a profit, I'm sure not doing it. That's a good sign that that is a really bad idea.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Which I am not. My previous rental was through a broker, no refunds. But if I had to rent again and chose to rent direct, yeah, I'd take less for a "no changes, none, not for any reason - here is your reservation, don't bother me again."

And I've been talking to the risk of renting for years over on the budget board. Renting is a great way to save money, if you can afford to loose it. Its rare that you will, but assume that the reservation is non-refundable, for any reason - and cannot be changed.

It is not that a reservation can't be changed (because most of the time it can) the reason some people won't modify a reservation is that they choose to refuse changes because once they have a renters money, they simply don't care or want to be bothered again.

I am still having a hard time trying to understand why any DVC member that rents points would totally refuse any reservation modifications, when a change could be done in a few minutes online. Imagine someone renting 150 points for $15pp ($2,250) and losing that all because an owner refuses to take 5-10 minutes to make a change.

I personally think there is middle ground here and think that people that are currently refusing modifications should come up with some service fee that makes it worth their time to help a renter that is at risk of losing 100% of their money due an unforeseen need to change their plans.

Again, people that rent DVC points pre-covid rarely make changes (probably less than 5% or so) but during covid, I am sure that number is much higher.

 

[CraigInPA]

When an owner rents their points, is/should the owner be looking at it like the renter has purchased those points and retains the banking/borrowing rules associated with those points? Or is it usually viewed as one transaction?

I, personally, only rent banked points. As such, they have a very clear end date within the forthcoming year. I am of the opinion that my renter is renting the use of the points for the entire lifetime of those points. If they need to re-schedule their trip (which has happened in the past), I'll be happy to re-book them, if possible, for their new dates. If their new reservation requires fewer points, there isn't a refund. If it requires more points, they'll need to pay the difference (if I have the points available, or if I have to get one time use points from DVC).

If I was to rent current year points, I wouldn't allow them to bank the points. In fact, if I had current year points that I wouldn't use, and didn't want to bank, I'd sell them as a transfer. A transfer is so much easier than booking reservations, even if it has to be done over the phone, because once I transfer them out, I never have to think about them again.

 

[Sandisw]

It is not that a reservation can't be changed (because most of the time it can) the reason some people won't modify a reservation is that they choose to refuse changes because once they have a renters money, they simply don't care or want to be bothered again.

I am still having a hard time trying to understand why any DVC member that rents points would totally refuse any reservation modifications, when a change could be done in a few minutes online. Imagine someone renting 150 points for $15pp ($2,250) and losing that all because an owner refuses to take 5-10 minutes to make a change.

I personally think there is middle ground here and think that people that are currently refusing modifications should come up with some service fee that makes it worth their time to help a renter that is at risk of losing 100% of their money due an unforeseen need to change their plans.

Again, people that rent DVC points pre-covid rarely make changes (probably less than 5% or so) but during covid, I am sure that number is much higher.

I think the key is that it’s not really up to anyone but an owner to decide. And that is the way it should be.

Personally, I don’t think it is up to me to judge others who choose to do it one way or the other. It’s up to renters and renters who don’t like it don’t rent from people who aren’t willing to change things. So, that renter who paid $2250 shouldn’t get into a contract with no changes or go with someone like me who will only be charging them $1650. Or choose Disney to ensure no loss.

Your way of doing things is good information for those who want to get into the game and those of us who choose to do it differently is also good information. Then the owner can craft the contract they want to use that fits their own needs

It seems to me that you want to convince others that not being willing to change or sublet is wrong. It’s not. Fee based or not.

We all just have to respect that every owner can do what they want with their own points and with renters.
The good news is that renters have choices and if paying more for flexibility works for them, I am glad for them and you, as an owner who chooses to offer that option!!

 

[DVC Doctor]

A transfer is so much easier than booking reservations, even if it has to be done over the phone, because once I transfer them out, I never have to think about them again.

I totally agree with that and, for sure, this is the easiest and fastest method to get rid of points and have no further responsibility. But make sure you get paid 100% in full as once you transfer your points, your can't undo it, but so far, I have not read any posts where a dispute involved a transfer.

I think the key is that it’s not really up to anyone but an owner to decide. And that is the way it should be.

Well, the problem is that there is an imbalance of information and power as 99% of all renters really do not understand how DVC points work (i.e. use year, banking, borrowing, expiration, modifications) and may sign a contract without even being able to anticipate that they will lose all their money when a owner will refuse to help modify a reservation once they get paid.

Perhaps my posts come across as strongly opinionated and that is because I have seen people lose 100% of their money because a dvc owner refused to make a date modification and then point to the signed contract that states no changes when it would only take 5-10 minutes to make a change online.

That is why I am suggesting that including a statement about charging a modification fee to the contract would be preferred over taking someone money and then letting the reservation go to waste. I get that some owners simply want to rent their points, get paid, and move on, but seriously, they spend more time online justifying their position to refuse changes than it takes to make a modification on the DVC website.

Finally, I have never said is it acceptable for a renter to ask or receive a cash refund once a reservation has been made and some people are confusing my position. I am simply stating my personal OPINION that dvc owners that rent points should be reasonably accommodating, and less rigid, to a renter that needs to make a modification to their rental as long as the modification is possible.

 

[Matty B13]

Well, the problem is that there is an imbalance of information and power as 99% of all renters really do not understand how DVC points work (i.e. use year, banking, borrowing, expiration, modifications) and may sign a contract without even being able to anticipate that they will lose all their money when a owner will refuse to help modify a reservation once they get paid.

I think most 99% of owners make it very clear to renters that this transcation is non-refundable. It is also stated very clearly in the contracts that people use and all brokers say it is non-refundable as well, so a renter really can't claim ignorance on this. Plus it is stated on several rental threads throughout Disboards, Facebook, and several other forums that most of these transactions are non-refundable.

 

[crisi]

It is not that a reservation can't be changed (because most of the time it can) the reason some people won't modify a reservation is that they choose to refuse changes because once they have a renters money, they simply don't care or want to be bothered again.

I am still having a hard time trying to understand why any DVC member that rents points would totally refuse any reservation modifications, when a change could be done in a few minutes online. Imagine someone renting 150 points for $15pp ($2,250) and losing that all because an owner refuses to take 5-10 minutes to make a change.

I personally think there is middle ground here and think that people that are currently refusing modifications should come up with some service fee that makes it worth their time to help a renter that is at risk of losing 100% of their money due an unforeseen need to change their plans.

Again, people that rent DVC points pre-covid rarely make changes (probably less than 5% or so) but during covid, I am sure that number is much higher.

Exactly. I don't want to be bothered again. A renter should never assume that the person who is renting you points wants to or is willing to be bothered again. As for understanding, you really don't need to understand and have pretty much proven you aren't going to, so I'm not offering an explanation. If the person you rented points from is not willing to change the reservation, the reservation CANNOT be changed.

I've only rented my points out once, and used a broker - because with a broker contractually I could only be bothered for ME and the Dining Plan.

 

[Sandisw]

I totally agree with that and, for sure, this is the easiest and fastest method to get rid of points and have no further responsibility. But make sure you get paid 100% in full as once you transfer your points, your can't undo it, but so far, I have not read any posts where a dispute involved a transfer.



Well, the problem is that there is an imbalance of information and power as 99% of all renters really do not understand how DVC points work (i.e. use year, banking, borrowing, expiration, modifications) and may sign a contract without even being able to anticipate that they will lose all their money when a owner will refuse to help modify a reservation once they get paid.

Perhaps my posts come across as strongly opinionated and that is because I have seen people lose 100% of their money because a dvc owner refused to make a date modification and then point to the signed contract that states no changes when it would only take 5-10 minutes to make a change online.

That is why I am suggesting that including a statement about charging a modification fee to the contract would be preferred over taking someone money and then letting the reservation go to waste. I get that some owners simply want to rent their points, get paid, and move on, but seriously, they spend more time online justifying their position to refuse changes than it takes to make a modification on the DVC website.

Finally, I have never said is it acceptable for a renter to ask or receive a cash refund once a reservation has been made and some people are confusing my position. I am simply stating my personal OPINION that dvc owners that rent points should be reasonably accommodating, and less rigid, to a renter that needs to make a modification to their rental as long as the modification is possible.

I think we all get your point of view and those new to renting are going to appreciate your sharing how you do it! It’s all good information.

But renters are adults and it is on them to decide. That is why we recommend on the boards here they do their homework. There is not one renter who signs a contract who doesn’t have the terms spelled out.

Sure, there could be a benefit to the rental market if more owners are flexible and it sounds like you would like to see that become more of a practice.

As I said, your terms will attract more renters than mine will. But they will cost a renter more too. That is why I have said, and other people responding to you are sharing that we get all that. We just have decided we prefer to rent differently!!!

 

[EatMoreVeg]

I’ve been following this thread with interest as an owner who has had to rent quite a few of their own points this year due to inability to travel. Thankfully, the rentals I have done have been more or less straightforward. I had one renter who requested quite a few changes (different room type, adding extra days, etc.) and I did accommodate. However these were situations in which I ended up renting more points than what was originally agreed upon, which luckily I was able to do. It wasn’t always a straightforward change. I ended up having to book the extra days on my other membership number in order to make the extra points available and then get the reservations linked, rebook Magical Express, etc but I think I have a similar “customer service” viewpoint as @dvcdoctor and recognizing that this is someone’s vacation, and wanting to be as flexible as possible. I do also have it outlined in the rental agreement that I use that up to 3 requests for changes can be made, but more so just to ensure I don’t get a request every week if a renter is very indecisive! I also outline no refunds except in cases of resort closure and I also state this to the renter to make sure they understand this.

It’s been interesting to hear the different approaches owners take when renting points. I think ultimately what it seems like it comes down to is differing values. Some value flexibility, some value low-effort or cost efficiency and I think that’s where it can be helpful for owners and renters to be well-matched in terms of their values when working together.

 

[piccolopat]

I am neither an owner nor someone who has rented. I follow these threads in case I ever decide to do one or the other. Outside of DVC, we've encountered the "no cancellation" issue with hotels and also some venues. We always choose the higher room price that allows us to cancel at the last minute rather than the lower cost no cancel rates because we like to plan well in advance. Travel insurance can reduce the risk for the no cancel reservations but those policies can be expensive and still have exclusions. When we were in London a few years ago, I came down with a stomach virus the day we were to visit Parliament. We bought tickets in advance and they had a no cancel policy. We had the concierge call to see if we could change the tickets to another date but it that wasn't allowed either. It was a risk we took buying the tickets and though we were disappointed, we understood. I like a PP's suggestion to the DVC rental contract that spells out fees for making changes if changes are possible. That makes sense for owners who are willing to entertain changes. I understand why some don't want to and personally would avoid those contracts. Others who choose those contracts can't complain when they try to change or cancel and end up losing the money because the owner says no.

 

[robinb]

It is not that a reservation can't be changed (because most of the time it can) the reason some people won't modify a reservation is that they choose to refuse changes because once they have a renters money, they simply don't care or want to be bothered again.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I think there are two main camps when in comes to DVC members who rent out their points. Camp A considers it as simply a financial transaction that is done and wrapped up as soon as they change the name and pocket their money. Camp B considers the renters as their guests and is genuinely interested in helping make their vacation successful. I am in the latter camp and I treat my renters with the same consideration I would want for myself.

Of course, each DVC owner can choose how they rent their points. DVC members from Camp A say that their renters fully understand what they are agreeing to and they have no responsibility to the renter once the money has exchanged hands. That may be true, but I also think that some renters don't realize that they have options and can find a DVC owner who allows a little more flexibility if something happens.

 

[crisi]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I think there are two main camps when in comes to DVC members who rent out their points. Camp A considers it as simply a financial transaction that is done and wrapped up as soon as they change the name and pocket their money. Camp B considers the renters as their guests and is genuinely interested in helping make their vacation successful. I am in the latter camp and I treat my renters with the same consideration I would want for myself.

Of course, each DVC owner can choose how they rent their points. DVC members from Camp A say that their renters fully understand what they are agreeing to and they have no responsibility to the renter once the money has exchanged hands. That may be true, but I also think that some renters don't realize that they have options and can find a DVC owner who allows a little more flexibility if something happens.

Honestly, they don't have options in many cases - they might right now, I haven't been watching the Covid rental market at all. But if I want to rent my BWV points in normal times, they will be gone in hours, even with my "no changes" policy. There are far fewer rentals (in normal circumstances) available than people who want to rent for high demand resorts.