What would you do? Renter wants to cancel.

[_auroraborealis_]

I agreed to allow the broker to rebook with another renter if they could match it up, but they weren't able to. Unfortunately, for this situation, I have a February use year, so cancelling a January reservation mid-November leaves no real time to rebook. The best bet is to try and re-rent the existing booking. Some of the points were already banked, too, so even an exception to the banking deadline wouldn't have helped.

As far as I know, the room sat empty.

Arguably, you also had more cause for generosity. An 11 month booking for last November would have been made pre-lockdown. No one had a clue at that point how long this would go (or even in many cases that it would mean anything domestically).

Someone booking 60 days out now? They can't claim pandemic ignorance, at the least.

 

[DVC Doctor]

So while having a contract is useful so that renters know what their options are, I still think it is useful to look at each case individually and see what can be done; of course taking into account the DVC rules around cancellation, banking, booking, etc.

I will definitely refer people to you if I get a DVC rental request as I am out of 2021 points already and your "can do" attitude will avoid bad situations.

I agreed to allow the broker to rebook with another renter if they could match it up, but they weren't able to. Unfortunately, for this situation, I have a February use year, so cancelling a January reservation mid-November leaves no real time to rebook. The best bet is to try and re-rent the existing booking. Some of the points were already banked, too, so even an exception to the banking deadline wouldn't have helped.

As far as I know, the room sat empty.

Well, that is why I try my best to avoid bookings close to the expiration date of my points. Of course, this is not always possible

Earlier today, I made a January 2022 rental at AKV using my AKV Dec 2021 points, thus they will expire in November 2022 and that is 20 months away from now, so in the (rare) event of a cancellation or emergency, we will have plenty of time to rebook this family or re-rent the points. I do my best to rebook people, but I generally do not offer a cash refund unless the points are rerented by someone else.

Finally, I have posted this many times, but cancellations or changes before covid were very rare, so up until 2020, this has not been a big issue, however it still shocks me to see how many DISboard members will refuse any changes or modifications to rentals , no matter what happens.

 

[jmail048]

I have a renter that wants to cancel their reservation ( which is in less than 60 days) or have try to have someone else takeover. They just signed the contract a few days ago. Since it was close to reservation date My contract stated all funds received NON-REFUNDABLE and no sub-lease to a third party. There are no other provisions for cancellation of rebooking as this was made at 60 day window.
As a good gesture I offered to allow them to be able to rebook and use the points until January 31st of 2022. Even though I don't have to as it isn't contract.
It seems they completely want to disregard the contract.
I think I am being fair. What would you do/ or have done in this situation?

That’s what’s contacts are for, to be followed. You don’t want to breach contract. Unless u think you can rebook another group and make a bit more money to cover your lost time. The most valuable thing you have is time and they have you second guessing the contract taking up more of your time.

 

[5th gate dreamers]

I will definitely refer people to you if I get a DVC rental request as I am out of 2021 points already and your "can do" attitude will avoid bad situations.



Well, that is why I try my best to avoid bookings close to the expiration date of my points. Of course, this is not always possible

Earlier today, I made a January 2022 rental at AKV using my AKV Dec 2021 points, thus they will expire in November 2022 and that is 20 months away from now, so in the (rare) event of a cancellation or emergency, we will have plenty of time to rebook this family or re-rent the points. I do my best to rebook people, but I generally do not offer a cash refund unless the points are rerented by someone else.

Finally, I have posted this many times, but cancellations or changes before covid were very rare, so up until 2020, this has not been a big issue, however it still shocks me to see how many DISboard members will refuse any changes or modifications to rentals , no matter what happens.

You have already litigated this point with previous posts. You are trying to control the narrative by saying this person has a good attitude and this person does not. You are not the arbiter of what is fair and just and right with regards to dvc. You aren't holding court with the rest of us with your "see you're talking contract again" or "wow, your can do attitude is going to get you a referral and a gold star". Anytime someone directly confronts your posts, you walk them back and then spend the next 6 posts trying to reel us all in to you being right. I wish I could curse, so instead...no one gives a hoot what owners you give your approval stamp to in terms of recommending. If you want to continue to return back to the first page of posts, I think you have run your course on this particular thread.

 

[DVC Doctor]

That’s what’s contacts are for, to be followed. You don’t want to breach contract. Unless u think you can rebook another group and make a bit more money to cover your lost time. The most valuable thing you have is time and they have you second guessing the contract taking up more of your time.

Breach or no breach, contracts are great at putting verbal agreements into writing, however, nobody has posted here of a situation where a DVC rental contract ended up in court, so who knows who would prevail.

I also agree that time is valuable, so perhaps adding in a service fee or time fee for making modifications would be a good concept to add to rental contracts as that will at least prevent a 100% loss of points from a rental cancellation.

Also, I like your avatar, but I have seen that somewhere else.

You have already litigated this point with previous posts. You are trying to control the narrative by saying this person has a good attitude and this person does not. You are not the arbiter of what is fair and just and right with regards to dvc. You aren't holding court with the rest of us with your "see you're talking contract again" or "wow, your can do attitude is going to get you a referral and a gold star". Anytime someone directly confronts your posts, you walk them back and then spend the next 6 posts trying to reel us all in to you being right. I wish I could curse, so instead...no one gives a hoot what owners you give your approval stamp to in terms of recommending. If you want to continue to return back to the first page of posts, I think you have run your course on this particular thread.

Hmmm, so now you are the arbitrator of what post are acceptable and what is not acceptable? Do yourself a favor and just ignore or don't respond to any posts that "make you wish you could curse"

Look, there are hundreds of rental transactions on these sites and most go really well, and truthfully, I really don't care if people are rigid or flexible with regards to rebooking a DVC reservation, however I am of the opinion that sometimes situations change (especially during covid) and if owners have the ability to HELP their renter (customer) out and rebook at no extra cost and minimal effort, then that is a good thing to do.

 

[CarolMN]

This is starting to get personal. Let's not debate. I do not want to close the thread.

 

[Sandisw]

Breach or no breach, contracts are great at putting verbal agreements into writing, however, nobody has posted here of a situation where a DVC rental contract ended up in court, so who knows who would prevail.

I also agree that time is valuable, so perhaps adding in a service fee or time fee for making modifications would be a good concept to add to rental contracts as that will at least prevent a 100% loss of points from a rental cancellation.

Also, I like your avatar, but I have seen that somewhere else.



Hmmm, so now you are the arbitrator of what post are acceptable and what is not acceptable? Do yourself a favor and just ignore or don't respond to any posts that "make you wish you could curse"

Look, there are hundreds of rental transactions on these sites and most go really well, and truthfully, I really don't care if people are rigid or flexible with regards to rebooking a DVC reservation, however I am of the opinion that sometimes situations change (especially during covid) and if owners have the ability to HELP their renter (customer) out and rebook at no extra cost and minimal effort, then that is a good thing to do.

Only disputes I have read about that were decided, not by a court, but by the Cc companies were the ones filed by renters against a broker,

I agree that most owners or renters are not going to take it as far as court, but in the end, contracts that clearly state no refunds, no changes, and no sublets, would seem to have a better chance than those that are vague.

I think when the broker lost the CC disputes it was because he could not provide the product so I do think an owner might lose if the resort is closed, regardless of. Other terms.

Other than that, it’s private deal and really, no right or wrong way to do it. Renters have lots of options to find owners who offer terms and prices they like, and owners have lots of options to find renters who are willing to accept their terms As well.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

This is an interesting thread. I haven’t rented my points yet, but I am always very interested to read threads that discuss the process and terms because I know one day I may need to rent my points. I do have a question. When an owner rents their points, is/should the owner be looking at it like the renter has purchased those points and retains the banking/borrowing rules associated with those points? Or is it usually viewed as one transaction? I ask because I have seen owners on other threads discuss that they view the points as being “owned” by the renters and are willing to change the reservation or bank those points for the renter since the renter doesn’t have access to do those things. I’m not sure (but I would guess) that the rental price/pt would be slightly hire in those situations. In regard to the OP’s issue, that would mean doing what the OP offered (rebooking) which is a solid/fair option for the renter.

With regard to the “DVC contracts haven’t been litigated in court” stance, what does that even matter? A contract is an agreement between two people. Who cares if none of these disputes have made it to court. Terms were laid out and two people agreed to them. What ever happened to people’s word meaning something? If the terms of an agreement state “no refunds” and the renter come back demanding a refund, that renter obviously has a character flaw and doesn’t think they should be held to that agreement. Sorry, but that is on them. I know if I was the renter in this situation I would be very happy with the booking being moved to a later date.

 

[paults]

OP, I think if it were me I would let the renter (not me) try to sublet the ressie with the cost a little higher because of the extra time involved if they find someone. Also let them know they will not receive any money back till the new renter has completed their trip and you are sure there are no charge backs from Disney or any damage issues. But that's just me.

 

[Marionnette]

OP, I think if it were me I would let the renter (not me) try to sublet the ressie with the cost a little higher because of the extra time involved if they find someone. Also let them know they will not receive any money back till the new renter has completed their trip and you are sure there are no charge backs from Disney or any damage issues. But that's just me.

So in your example, how do payments work? Does the sublet pay the owner or the renter? Would the sublet sign a new contract with the owner? Would you would hold the money from both the renter and the sublet and not refund to the renter until a period of how many days following the end of the reservation? Would you draft a new contract with the renter outlining the new terms or just agree to the changes via email or phone conversations?

I‘m not being critical of your idea. I’m just curious about the details. It’s one of the reasons that I do not permit sublets. I’m more than willing to make changes for a renter, based on availability and the lifespan of the points, but I have reservations about a renter finding a new renter to take over the reservation. I much prefer to deal directly with the people to whom I rent my points.

 

[AZMermaid]

OP- what did you decide? How’s it going?

 

[crisi]

This is an interesting thread. I haven’t rented my points yet, but I am always very interested to read threads that discuss the process and terms because I know one day I may need to rent my points. I do have a question. When an owner rents their points, is/should the owner be looking at it like the renter has purchased those points and retains the banking/borrowing rules associated with those points? Or is it usually viewed as one transaction? I ask because I have seen owners on other threads discuss that they view the points as being “owned” by the renters and are willing to change the reservation or bank those points for the renter since the renter doesn’t have access to do those things. I’m not sure (but I would guess) that the rental price/pt would be slightly hire in those situations. In regard to the OP’s issue, that would mean doing what the OP offered (rebooking) which is a solid/fair option for the renter.

With regard to the “DVC contracts haven’t been litigated in court” stance, what does that even matter? A contract is an agreement between two people. Who cares if none of these disputes have made it to court. Terms were laid out and two people agreed to them. What ever happened to people’s word meaning something? If the terms of an agreement state “no refunds” and the renter come back demanding a refund, that renter obviously has a character flaw and doesn’t think they should be held to that agreement. Sorry, but that is on them. I know if I was the renter in this situation I would be very happy with the booking being moved to a later date.

The general view is that you are renting the reservation, not the points. Since non-owners don't have good handles on banking or availability, letting them think they have any actual control over the points themselves is asking for trouble.

I'm on the "have non-refundable, non-changeable contract. And don't change it" side of things. I'm only renting points I don't use to cover dues and a little of my time in dealing with a rental. I'm not renting as a business. DVC rentals are a bargain, but they are a bargain because of the risk. I have the opposite view of DVC Doctor, I wish other owners would not be flexible, it sets an expectation. But if they want to do that, that's on them.

 

[CarolMN]

Personally, I would not refund UNLESS the resort was closed, or the contract specially stated that there would be "no refund for any reason EVEN IF THE RESORT IS CLOSED". The only exception would be a cancellation by me or the failure of me to keep my account current.

IMO, it is wrong to keep renters' money if the reservation is unavailable because the resort is closed.

Of course, I don't rent so my opinion isn't worth all that much.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

The general view is that you are renting the reservation, not the points. Since non-owners don't have good handles on banking or availability, letting them think they have any actual control over the points themselves is asking for trouble.

I'm on the "have non-refundable, non-changeable contract. And don't change it" side of things. I'm only renting points I don't use to cover dues and a little of my time in dealing with a rental. I'm not renting as a business. DVC rentals are a bargain, but they are a bargain because of the risk. I have the opposite view of DVC Doctor, I wish other owners would not be flexible, it sets an expectation. But if they want to do that, that's on them.

Got it. I tend to agree with your viewpoint. I am definitely more on the side of all rentals are final. I was just curious how many people view it as a "purchase of points" compared to a "renting of reservation". I guess it would all depend on the situation. If a renter had a legitimate reason to cancel, I wouldn't have an issue with rebooking their reservation for a later time (assuming the point booking window allowed it). But I really don't see a scenario where there would be a refund. To your point, that is the risk of renting the points. The renter gets to save A LOT of money on the reservation, but there isn't a refund policy. If they want the refund/cancellation policy then they should book directly through Disney...and spend A LOT more. The saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too" is pretty appropriate in this situation.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Personally, I would not refund UNLESS the resort was closed, or the contract specially stated that there would be "no refund for any reason EVEN IF THE RESORT IS CLOSED". The only exception would be a cancellation by me or the failure of me to keep my account current.

IMO, it is wrong to keep renters' money if the reservation is unavailable because the resort is closed.

Of course, I don't rent so my opinion isn't worth all that much.

This is very interesting. I could see before COVID that refunding money would be very appropriate if the resort was closed. To that point, the resorts being closed was much more unlikely before COVID (water main flooding or something like that). Refunding in that instance would be absolutely the right thing to do. But after COVID the risk of a resort being closed is much more "real". A renter who is renting today is doing so knowing that there is a chance the resort may not be open. "Automatically" refunding money if the resort is closed during post-pandemic times represents the owner taking on all the risk. The renter has to have some skin in the game if they are want to book rooms post COVID. I would think some clause that reads "50% refund if the resort is closed" would make sense. What if the reservation date is past the banking window, or even in the last 30 days of the UY? The renter would be waiting to see if the resort will be open and then a few weeks before their trip they realize it won't be open so they ask for a refund. That would be completely unfair for the owner.

I appreciate your feedback. Renting of points is fascinating to me because of how many variables there can be for the rental contract. For example, I would think some clause that reads "50% refund if the resort is closed" would make sense. What if the reservation date is past the banking window, or even in the last 30 days of the UY? The renter would be waiting to see if the resort will be open and then a few weeks before their trip they realize it won't be open so they ask for a refund. That would be completely unfair for the owner. Or maybe there could be a clause stating that there will be no refund for resort closure after the banking window has passed. This would put a little onus on the renter to keep an eye on the resort status and cancel in a timely manner. Again, I don't know why I find this stuff so interesting.

 

[DVC Doctor]

I can sum up my position pretty simply - when I rent points, I do my best to avoid booking close the the expiration of my points, try to anticipate problems, be friendly and empathic toward emergencies, and for the most part, transactions are super smooth with no issues.

On rare occurrences (like less than 5% of all rentals) a problem develops where the renter needs to cancel and for those I do my best to try to rebook for a future date and if I can bank my points for another year, I will do that too. Technically modifying an existing reservation is easy online as we do not need to call DVC anymore. I have never been asked to sublet or transfer a current reservation to another person and I would assume that is super rare occurrence. In ten years I have not give a cash refund to anyone that cancels. However, on a few occasions, I was able to re-rent cancelled points and sent a partial refund for the points I was able to salvage. Again, this is not that time consuming and the renters were super happy and continue to rent from me and send referrals to me all the time.

2020 was a super unusual year and that created all sorts of havoc and made me realize that the market of DVC point rental is a two-way system of trust and I as the owner should do my best to help a renter out if they face a change of plans or the parks close down or travel is restricted. Hopefully this will never happen again, but who knows.

I understand some DVC owners may want a "rigid iron clad" no change rental and that is strange to me as it is not customer friendly and does not install confidence with renters that you won't make a date change when it takes 5 minutes online to do that (assuming the points are not expiring and there is availability). I deal a lot in real estate and changes to closing dates happen all the time, and a simple one page contract addendum is created.

All members can do whatever they want, be rigid or flexible as there are thousands of renters and we will not all agree. My BEST suggestion is for anyone that does NOT want to make changes or modifications to a rental - is to consider allowing modifications (per Disney rules and availability) and charge those renters a service fee or hourly rate as that at least will prevent a 100% loss of points when a renter needs to change a date. I am totally against any DVC owner that refuses to help renter change or modify a reservation and allow those points to go to waste or the room to go unoccupied (even though that may be in their contract, blab..blab...blab).

 

[MICKIMINI]

My rentals are non refundable however I'm flexible and give renters a chance to adjust a reservation in my contract. The only exception is if the resort is closed 100% money back no questions asked. I expect DVC to make it right and refund my points and that's up to me to deal with.

I treat my renters as I expect to be treated. It is a business transaction, but as long as a request is reasonable and I can accommodate, why wouldn't I? I hope that my renters feel comfortable enough to contact me if they need points in the future. I may or may not have the points, but it doesn't hurt for them to ask.

I also am willing to adjust the reservation within the parameters of my UY and point expiration. I'm clear about the "end date" of the points no matter what comes up. They expire when they expire and I can't change that. I won't bank points for a renter as I just don't want to get that involved. I own the points and provide a reservation in exchange for payment. It's all worked out well and I actually feel better about it than when I used brokers.

 

[DougEMG]

Got it. I tend to agree with your viewpoint. I am definitely more on the side of all rentals are final. I was just curious how many people view it as a "purchase of points" compared to a "renting of reservation". I guess it would all depend on the situation. If a renter had a legitimate reason to cancel, I wouldn't have an issue with rebooking their reservation for a later time (assuming the point booking window allowed it). But I really don't see a scenario where there would be a refund. To your point, that is the risk of renting the points. The rental gets to save A LOT of money on the reservation, but there isn't a refund policy. If they want the refund/cancellation policy then they should book directly through Disney...and spend A LOT more. The saying "you can't have your cake and eat it too" is pretty appropriate in this situation.

I tend to view it as "renting of points", which is why I will make changes within the life of those points.

It seems that most people are viewing it as renting a reservation, yet when those reservations were cancelled due to COVID, that suddenly was the renters problem even though the owner was not delivering the reservation. I am of the believe that because DVC is acting on our behalf, that when they cancelled the reservations that was the equivalent of the owner cancelling the reservation.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

My rentals are non refundable however I'm flexible and give renters a chance to adjust a reservation in my contract. The only exception is if the resort is closed 100% money back no questions asked. I expect DVC to make it right and refund my points and that's up to me to deal with.

I treat my renters as I expect to be treated. It is a business transaction, but as long as a request is reasonable and I can accommodate, why wouldn't I? I hope that my renters feel comfortable enough to contact me if they need points in the future. I may or may not have the points, but it doesn't hurt for them to ask.

I also am willing to adjust the reservation within the parameters of my UY and point expiration. I'm clear about the "end date" of the points no matter what comes up. They expire when they expire and I can't change that. I won't bank points for a renter as I just don't want to get that involved. I own the points and provide a reservation in exchange for payment. It's all worked out well and I actually feel better about it than when I used brokers.

Thanks for the reply. Once I read your comment I realized that is pretty much how I feel as well. Changing reservations within the current use year is one thing, but banking them for a renter is probably a little beyond the scope of what I would want to do.

 

[crisi]

I tend to view it as "renting of points", which is why I will make changes within the life of those points.

It seems that most people are viewing it as renting a reservation, yet when those reservations were cancelled due to COVID, that suddenly was the renters problem even though the owner was not delivering the reservation. I am of the believe that because DVC is acting on our behalf, that when they cancelled the reservations that was the equivalent of the owner cancelling the reservation.

Its non-refundable. Whether you see it as points or a reservation or because you changed your mind or resort closure - that is the risk you are taking for a HUGE discount over rack rates - and if you are concerned, insurance is available. Can't afford the risk, don't rent the points - or at least get yourself some insurance. Once I make the reservation for you, everything else is your problem.