What would you do? Renter wants to cancel.

[DVC Doctor]

I guess the thing that is confusing to me is that most people on DISboards are extremely friendly, caring, nice, helpful, sharing people and gladly give up their time and energy posting Disney and travel information on these boards and is generally a nice place for interesting conversations.

I also see that when people have extra points or decide to skip Disney one year, this is a great resource for DVC members to rent their points in a win-win situation where renters can save money and dvc members can get their dues back (and make additional profit) to pay down loans or the cost of the original purchase. However, some people seem to flip a lightswitch when it comes to rentals and once they get the renters money, they become rigid, unforgiving, unaccommodating, and don't want to be bothered from the renters ever.

Now I understand that some people do not want to open pandora's box and expose themselves to tons of wasted energy from finicky renters, and trying to arbitrate what is legitimate excuse and what is not, and I am not advocating that. But, when a renter has a legitimate reason to cancel a reservation and is asking for the possibility to rebook, then why is that such a big deal to spend a few mins online to make a modification. I am definitely NOT advising any refund of money, just an opportunity for the renter to salvage a rental they paid for. Besides, this usually is a rare occurrence, but it does happen. In fact, some of the time a modification may actually require more points and potentially more revenue to a owner if they have extra points to rent.

I have even suggested that owners that don't want to make changes, to simply offer that possibility for a fee (they can decide what is fair compensation) and obviously there are no guarantees a change can be made (i.e. switch may be past expiration date of points).

Finally, the reason I care about this topic is that there are often articles in the news about how people can save money renting DVC points and even point them to this bbs and facebook groups, but NOBODY warns these people that they can lose all their money if they rent from some that refuses modifications and if that happens a lot then negative articles will get posted and that is not in anyone best interest.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I, personally, only rent banked points. As such, they have a very clear end date within the forthcoming year. I am of the opinion that my renter is renting the use of the points for the entire lifetime of those points. If they need to re-schedule their trip (which has happened in the past), I'll be happy to re-book them, if possible, for their new dates. If their new reservation requires fewer points, there isn't a refund. If it requires more points, they'll need to pay the difference (if I have the points available, or if I have to get one time use points from DVC).

If I was to rent current year points, I wouldn't allow them to bank the points. In fact, if I had current year points that I wouldn't use, and didn't want to bank, I'd sell them as a transfer. A transfer is so much easier than booking reservations, even if it has to be done over the phone, because once I transfer them out, I never have to think about them again.

Ooooh, that's a good point. I totally forgot about transfers. Is it hard to find someone who wants to buy your points via a transfer? I mean, why wouldn't everyone do that? It seems so much easier. I know you can only transfer once per year, so I don't know that the market looks like for those wanting to buy points via transfer. I am assuming the rental market is much bigger, which is why so many people rent their points.

 

[Matty B13]

Ooooh, that's a good point. I totally forgot about transfers. Is it hard to find someone who wants to buy your points via a transfer? I mean, why wouldn't everyone do that? It seems so much easier. I know you can only transfer once per year, so I don't know that the market looks like for those wanting to buy points via transfer. I am assuming the rental market is much bigger, which is why so many people rent their points.

Renters only want to buy a certain amount of points by transfer most times, but an Owner wants to transfer ALL of their points to another person. It is very difficult for this to line up for most Renter and Owners which is why it is a rare thing to happen. I have done 1 transfer in about the 4 years that I have rented points, and was only able to do it for about 80% of the points I was trying to sell.

 

[crisi]

I guess the thing that is confusing to me is that most people on DISboards are extremely friendly, caring, nice, helpful, sharing people and gladly give up their time and energy posting Disney and travel information on these boards and is generally a nice place for interesting conversations.

I also see that when people have extra points or decide to skip Disney one year, this is a great resource for DVC members to rent their points in a win-win situation where renters can save money and dvc members can get their dues back (and make additional profit) to pay down loans or the cost of the original purchase. However, some people seem to flip a lightswitch when it comes to rentals and once they get the renters money, they become rigid, unforgiving, unaccommodating, and don't want to be bothered from the renters ever.

Now I understand that some people do not want to open pandora's box and expose themselves to tons of wasted energy from finicky renters, and trying to arbitrate what is legitimate excuse and what is not, and I am not advocating that. But, when a renter has a legitimate reason to cancel a reservation and is asking for the possibility to rebook, then why is that such a big deal to spend a few mins online to make a modification. I am definitely NOT advising any refund of money, just an opportunity for the renter to salvage a rental they paid for. Besides, this usually is a rare occurrence, but it does happen. In fact, some of the time a modification may actually require more points and potentially more revenue to a owner if they have extra points to rent.

I have even suggested that owners that don't want to make changes, to simply offer that possibility for a fee (they can decide what is fair compensation) and obviously there are no guarantees a change can be made (i.e. switch may be past expiration date of points).

Finally, the reason I care about this topic is that there are often articles in the news about how people can save money renting DVC points and even point them to this bbs and facebook groups, but NOBODY warns these people that they can lose all their money if they rent from some that refuses modifications and if that happens a lot then negative articles will get posted and that is not in anyone best interest.

I am friendly and caring - but you have no way to contact me in real life. I can come to the DISBoards on my own terms. I have no obligation to answer anyone's questions.

That dynamic changes when you feel you are entitled to my time - for free or because I'm selling it - and can make my phone ring or fill my inbox. I don't care to sell my time, and I don't want to deal with entitled.

A long time ago on these boards there was someone who would get cheap transfers (back when you could do multiple transfers) by telling a sob story about a very ill child. Turns out they were getting those points transferred to their account, and then renting those points out for more than they got them for. People lie. And even when they don't lie, I really don't have the spoons in my life for anyone else's problems. If you have a good reason to have to cancel your reservation, that will be covered by insurance.

And I tell people all the time that you can lose all your money. Have been saying that for years. That's what non-refundable means. Caveat Emptor.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I think we all get your point of view and those new to renting are going to appreciate your sharing how you do it! It’s all good information.

But renters are adults and it is on them to decide. That is why we recommend on the boards here they do their homework. There is not one renter who signs a contract who doesn’t have the terms spelled out.

Sure, there could be a benefit to the rental market if more owners are flexible and it sounds like you would like to see that become more of a practice.

As I said, your terms will attract more renters than mine will. But they will cost a renter more too. That is why I have said, and other people responding to you are sharing that we get all that. We just have decided we prefer to rent differently!!!

Well said. I am new to renting and I appreciate hearing both sides of this. It is helping me mentally craft my rental contract. And once I do craft that contract, I would expect the renter to abide by it...as I will be abiding to it. Yes, I may step outside of the contract if the renter has a legit reason to change a reservation to a later date. But that is my right as the owner. Just like any other owner has the right to firmly stick to the terms of their contract.

Your final paragraph is a point that was made earlier in this thread (also by me) and one I happen to completely agree with. If a renter wants a 100% guarantee of being able to cancel or change the reservation, then they should book it through Disney. If they want to save a LOT of money then they can rent points from a DVC owner, maybe even an owner that will explicitly agree to changing reservations. Want to save even less? Then rent from an owner who is more "rigid" with their terms. No matter what, each step "down" in that continuum comes with a reduced price but it also comes with more risk. Renters can't expect to get the bottom of the barrel pricing with the guarantees of changing the reservation or even refunds (ie less risk). It doesn't work that way. It's a give and take.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Renters only want to buy a certain amount of points by transfer most times, but an Owner wants to transfer ALL of their points to another person. It is very difficult for this to line up for most Renter and Owners which is why it is a rare thing to happen. I have done 1 transfer in about the 4 years that I have rented points, and was only able to do it for about 80% of the points I was trying to sell.

Ah, that makes sense. Good to know.

 

[DVC Doctor]

I just want to share an interesting update to this thread

Two days ago, I received a large DVC point rental request from a previous renter and I did not have enough points to make the reservation myself, so I remembered this thread and decided to reach out to "DougEMG" to see if he wanted to partner with me on an $8,500 rental as he has a similar opinion on point rental and "modifications" as I do. Luckily we both had the same resort and use years and he had enough points available to rent, so we split the request and managed billing separately and it was a win-win-win situation between the Renter-Myself-DougEMG. I am also very appreciative of the DISboards community where people can do a transaction like this as, in this situation, a 3-way system of trust is needed between all parties to do the right thing. Although I don't expect a cancellation with this rental, I can't imagine partnering with anyone that would refuse to modify a $8,500 paid reservation and be able sleep at night while holding someone's feet to the fire with a rigid no-change contract.

The only bad news is that I am now 100% out of 2021 points and Disney is restricting borrowing.

You have already litigated this point with previous posts. You are trying to control the narrative by saying this person has a good attitude and this person does not. You are not the arbiter of what is fair and just and right with regards to dvc. You aren't holding court with the rest of us with your "see you're talking contract again" or "wow, your can do attitude is going to get you a referral and a gold star". Anytime someone directly confronts your posts, you walk them back and then spend the next 6 posts trying to reel us all in to you being right. I wish I could curse, so instead...no one gives a hoot what owners you give your approval stamp to in terms of recommending. If you want to continue to return back to the first page of posts, I think you have run your course on this particular thread.

Well, in this situation, I was able to find an awesome DISboard member that had the same thinking as I do with regards to DVC point rentals and we were able to partner on a very lucrative rental. So I guess gold stars are now well deserved.

I tend to view it as "renting of points", which is why I will make changes within the life of those points.

So do I.......and thank you for partnering with me on this large point rental.

 

[Sammie]

I will say that PayPal can will take any action they feel benefits them. Our dog sitter uses PayPal, and kept this woman's dog for day care for a month, the dog owner was extremely pleased. She was moving into town and staying with a friend. After she got settled in her own place, she quit using her to sit the dog and paid her by PayPal for the one month of sitting. and Two months later she gets a notice from Paypal that the payment was reversed by the dog owner's credit card company. PayPal was no help at all as they said, they don't assist in services, only tangible products where the delivery can actually be traced. They demanded she return the payment to them.
Point being PayPal says in their TOS they do not allow use of PayPal for timeshare rentals. If something goes wrong they are going to be no help at all. They let someone hack my account and then wanted me to provide legal proof of who I was and yet had no problem thinking the hacker were actually me. They had to prove nothing.
All PayPal is good for his convenience and transitions that never have problems.

 

[cm8]

I just want to share an interesting update to this thread

Two days ago, I received a large DVC point rental request from a previous renter and I did not have enough points to make the reservation myself, so I remembered this thread and decided to reach out to "DougEMG" to see if he wanted to partner with me on an $8,500 rental as he has a similar opinion on point rental and "modifications" as I do. Luckily we both had the same resort and use years and he had enough points available to rent, so we split the request and managed billing separately and it was a win-win-win situation between the Renter-Myself-DougEMG. I am also very appreciative of the DISboards community where people can do a transaction like this as, in this situation, a 3-way system of trust is needed between all parties to do the right thing. Although I don't expect a cancellation with this rental, I can't imagine partnering with anyone that would refuse to modify a $8,500 paid reservation and be able sleep at night while holding someone's feet to the fire with a rigid no-change contract.

The only bad news is that I am now 100% out of 2021 points and Disney is restricting borrowing.



Well, in this situation, I was able to find an awesome DISboard member that had the same thinking as I do with regards to DVC point rentals and we were able to partner on a very lucrative rental. So I guess gold stars are now well deserved.



So do I.......and thank you for partnering with me on this large point rental.

Wow....

 

[DVC Doctor]

I have a renter that wants to cancel their reservation ( which is in less than 60 days) or have try to have someone else takeover. They just signed the contract a few days ago. Since it was close to reservation date My contract stated all funds received NON-REFUNDABLE and no sub-lease to a third party. There are no other provisions for cancellation of rebooking as this was made at 60 day window.
As a good gesture I offered to allow them to be able to rebook and use the points until January 31st of 2022. Even though I don't have to as it isn't contract.
It seems they completely want to disregard the contract.
I think I am being fair. What would you do/ or have done in this situation?

Inquiring minds want to know how this was resolved?

 

[robinb]

Inquiring minds want to know how this was resolved?

He hasn't posted in a week. I don't think we will ever know.

 

[DVC Doctor]

He hasn't posted in a week. I don't think we will ever know.

Strange how some threads go cold from the original poster and we are all left wondering what happened....like a timeshare story cliffhanger

 

[robinb]

Strange how some threads go cold from the original poster and we are all left wondering what happened....like a timeshare story cliffhanger

Will CarolinaMike release the renter from his contract?

Will the renter find a better deal?

And what about the Disney Dining Plan?!?

Stay tuned for next time on ...

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Will CarolinaMike release the renter from his contract?

Will the renter find a better deal?

And what about the Disney Dining Plan?!?

Stay tuned for next time on ...

View attachment 562918

I love this!

 

[DVC Doctor]

I think I am being fair. What would you do/ or have done in this situation?

Mike....seriously dude, you need to finish what you started.

Pretty please post the answer to WTH happened?

Will CarolinaMike release the renter from his contract?

Will the renter find a better deal?

And what about the Disney Dining Plan?!?

Stay tuned for next time on ...

^^^ awesome post

 

[Evita_W]

Thank you for your reply and information. What forms of payment do you take for your rental s to avoid issues??

I use Square, they allow (or did at the time) you to hold a card for incidentals like a hotel would.

 

[DVC Doctor]

Although we may NEVER know the conclusion of CarolinaMike's situation, I want to share an interesting update.

A few months ago, I made a rental for 11 months out for a family and recently received an email from the husband that his wife is pregnant and the due date is now the same week as their reservation and obviously needs to cancel the original date reservation. Fortunately, I used points with a generous amount of time before they expire and can even be banked if needed. I was happy to make a change to the dates, but did not offer a cash refund. I can't imaging any DVC owner sticking to their "no change" rules in their contracts when faced with a situation like this. I understand that some DVC members would NOT change a reservation even with a pregnancy,, but I was happy to help out and this was a win-win situation.

 

[Bing Showei]

Although we may NEVER know the conclusion of CarolinaMike's situation, I want to share an interesting update.

A few months ago, I made a rental for 11 months out for a family and recently received an email from the husband that his wife is pregnant and the due date is now the same week as their reservation and obviously needs to cancel the original date reservation. Fortunately, I used points with a generous amount of time before they expire and can even be banked if needed. I was happy to make a change to the dates, but did not offer a cash refund. I can't imaging any DVC owner sticking to their "no change" rules in their contracts when faced with a situation like this. I understand that some DVC members would NOT change a reservation even with a pregnancy,, but I was happy to help out and this was a win-win situation.

We get it. You’re an awesome renter. And an even more amazing human being.

What you don’t seem to get is that such concessions should be a choice on the part of the owner as a courtesy to their renter. Your constant judgement when people choose to do otherwise, publicly undermines the value of entering into a contractual agreement, which I’m willing to bet you still require renters to sign every time you rent to them despite all your awesomeness.

With one of the few rentals I have ever done, my renter experienced a hugely tragic loss in her life shortly before a scheduled trip and was certain she would need to cancel the trip.

I felt zero contractual obligation to do anything for this renter. I felt no moral obligation to do anything for this renter. What I did feel was that it was within my ability to help this person, and I did exactly that of my own volition.

The only reason I have a grey DVC Gold button on my profile is because I didn’t average enough posts here over the previous several months, so I had to pay out of pocket to get a membership just to re-rent her points on the rent/trade boards. Not only did I take the time to try and re-rent her points, but when she later decided she would take the trip solo in memory of her mother, I used some of my own points to stalk over several days religiously, doing split reservations, and calling up MS to combine reservations, to put her into a Boardwalk view room so that she could sit on the balcony each evening and enjoy the view; an activity she and her mother did on every trip in the past. I also arranged so that there would be something special for her when she checked in. I spared her of all the behind-the-scenes action as she had enough on her plate.

I had zero obligation to do any of that but chose to because I wanted to.

But before doing all of that, what I also did was ask her to provide a written statement stating that I am relieved of any further obligation on the contract; that the contract was considered satisfied. I would make an effort, under no obligation, to re-rent the points to allow her to recover some of her loss. I did this because CONTRACTS MATTER.

So you can keep your gold stars for when you pat yourself on the back. Just think twice about admonishing those who don’t agree with your philosophy around pliant contracts. Plenty of us who believe in doing the right thing also respect the contract we sign when we enter a legally binding agreement.

 

[Sandisw]

We get it. You’re an awesome renter. And an even more amazing human being.

What you don’t seem to get is that such concessions should be a choice on the part of the owner as a courtesy to their renter. Your constant judgement when people choose to do otherwise, publicly undermines the value of entering into a contractual agreement, which I’m willing to bet you still require renters to sign every time you rent to them despite all your awesomeness.

With one of the few rentals I have ever done, my renter experienced a hugely tragic loss in her life shortly before a scheduled trip and was certain she would need to cancel the trip.

I felt zero contractual obligation to do anything for this renter. I felt no moral obligation to do anything for this renter. What I did feel was that it was within my ability to help this person, and I did exactly that of my own volition.

The only reason I have a grey DVC Gold button on my profile is because I didn’t average enough posts here over the previous several months, so I had to pay out of pocket to get a membership just to re-rent her points on the rent/trade boards. Not only did I take the time to try and re-rent her points, but when she later decided she would take the trip solo in memory of her mother, I used some of my own points to stalk over several days religiously, doing split reservations, and calling up MS to combine reservations, to put her into a Boardwalk view room so that she could sit on the balcony each evening and enjoy the view; an activity she and her mother did on every trip in the past. I also arranged so that there would be something special for her when she checked in. I spared her of all the behind-the-scenes action as she had enough on her plate.

I had zero obligation to do any of that but chose to because I wanted to.

But before doing all of that, what I also did was ask her to provide a written statement stating that I am relieved of any further obligation on the contract; that the contract was considered satisfied. I would make an effort, under no obligation, to re-rent the points to allow her to recover some of her loss. I did this because CONTRACTS MATTER.

So you can keep your gold stars for when you pat yourself on the back. Just think twice about admonishing those who don’t agree with your philosophy around pliant contracts. Plenty of us who believe in doing the right thing also respect the contract we sign when we enter a legally binding agreement.

Thank you for saying this! I’m pretty confident the OP never came back because of how critical some of the posts were toward even suggesting they should expect a contract to be honored !

 

[Katiebird]

Although we may NEVER know the conclusion of CarolinaMike's situation, I want to share an interesting update.

A few months ago, I made a rental for 11 months out for a family and recently received an email from the husband that his wife is pregnant and the due date is now the same week as their reservation and obviously needs to cancel the original date reservation. Fortunately, I used points with a generous amount of time before they expire and can even be banked if needed. I was happy to make a change to the dates, but did not offer a cash refund. I can't imaging any DVC owner sticking to their "no change" rules in their contracts when faced with a situation like this. I understand that some DVC members would NOT change a reservation even with a pregnancy,, but I was happy to help out and this was a win-win situation.

It seems odd to have two unexpected pregnancies, with a trip scheduled exactly for the due date, with the same general time frame. Hopefully they’re not actually the same situation.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/issue-with-my-renter.3830817/#post-62812545