WDW Should Not Open in July. Discuss.

[anthony2k7]

I didn't want to have to go there. I know a lot of people on the DIS forums are reasonable and most are willing to have a civil debate. It is however a bit disappointing that your reasons ARE probably the main reasons people are coming up with. I mean most of us here are fanatics, but we also have children (that have no say) and significant others, both of which some are willing to roll the dice on. Who rolls the dice on their loved ones?

It's so depressing.

I've seen several posters here saying how they are willing to take the risk to go to disney even though their child has asthma or some other condition which would increase risk significantly. Its shocking.


I also read this morning that covid parties are now a thing. Apparently one FL woman decided to take her child who had previously had cancer and had immunodeficiency issues to a church covid party. Bonkers.

 

[mckennarose]

But, at this point, I think we all know that indoors is where this virus transmits.

Indoors, between family and friends in a close setting where people are most likely not wearing masks is how the virus more easily transmits. It is not exclusive to indoors though.

I live in what was a hot spot in March, April and May due to our proximity to NYC. I can tell you for sure that some of the people I knew who got it contracted it at an outdoor BBQ. They did not follow distancing or mask protocol (back then, masks were not mandatory, as we were part of the first wave in the country and information was just coming out on how to protect yourself). They also had the mentality that "I'm young, it won't affect me". This was primarily a young age group of 20 somethings. When the first one got it and wound up in the ER on oxygen you wouldn't believe the fights and blame they all threw at each other. This is my dd's friend group and thankfully she had enough sense to recognize the potential of possible spread in a large group of people and she stayed home.

I'm seeing lots of outdoor things canceled up here because of the potential of spread; festivals, baseball, fairs, concerts, etc. We do not want to go backward when it took so long to slow the spread. JMO, from what I've seen and personally experienced with how it spread to people we know it's naive to believe that any large gathering of people in close proximity to each other won't/can't spread it, whether indoors or outdoors. My personal opinion is that you probably won't get it in just passing someone, but standing or sitting stationary near someone for a length of time past a few minutes increases your chances of getting it.

Again, JMO but I don't think anyone should be doing unnecessary travel right now. And I'm not basing my opinion on news stories, defending my rights, perceived hoaxes or threats. I'm basing in on having gone through the initial wave of infection living in a hot spot, knowing lots of people who have had it and some who have died and for me, it's just not worth it. Aside from that, our state has a mandatory 14 quarantine now if we travel and return from 16 states that are having a rise in cases.... so we won't be going anywhere for a while anyway. I'm actually glad they imposed that.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

Indoors, between family and friends in a close setting where people are most likely not wearing masks is how the virus more easily transmits. It is not exclusive to indoors though.

I live in what was a hot spot in March, April and May due to our proximity to NYC. I can tell you for sure that some of the people I knew who got it contracted it at an outdoor BBQ. They did not follow distancing or mask protocol (back then, masks were not mandatory, as we were part of the first wave in the country and information was just coming out on how to protect yourself). They also had the mentality that "I'm young, it won't affect me". This was primarily a young age group of 20 somethings. When the first one got it and wound up in the ER on oxygen you wouldn't believe the fights and blame they all threw at each other. This is my dd's friend group and thankfully she had enough sense to recognize the potential of possible spread in a large group of people and she stayed home.

I'm seeing lots of outdoor things canceled up here because of the potential of spread; festivals, baseball, fairs, concerts, etc. We do not want to go backward when it took so long to slow the spread. JMO, from what I've seen and personally experienced with how it spread to people we know it's naive to believe that any large gathering of people in close proximity to each other won't/can't spread it, whether indoors or outdoors. My personal opinion is that you probably won't get it in just passing someone, but standing or sitting stationary near someone for a length of time past a few minutes increases your chances of getting it.

Again, JMO but I don't think anyone should be doing unnecessary travel right now. And I'm not basing my opinion on news stories, defending my rights, perceived hoaxes or threats. I'm basing in on having gone through the initial wave of infection living in a hot spot, knowing lots of people who have had it and some who have died and for me, it's just not worth it. Aside from that, our state has a mandatory 14 quarantine now if we travel and return from 16 states that are having a rise in cases.... so we won't be going anywhere for a while anyway. I'm actually glad they imposed that.

agreed. there's a reason we have not advanced to level 4 or whatever where large gathering non social distancing has been allowed.

Protests, Conventions, packed beaches are highly risky behavior, it doesn't matter what good intentions people have.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Indoors, between family and friends in a close setting where people are most likely not wearing masks is how the virus more easily transmits. It is not exclusive to indoors though.

I live in what was a hot spot in March, April and May due to our proximity to NYC. I can tell you for sure that some of the people I knew who got it contracted it at an outdoor BBQ. They did not follow distancing or mask protocol (back then, masks were not mandatory, as we were part of the first wave in the country and information was just coming out on how to protect yourself). They also had the mentality that "I'm young, it won't affect me". This was primarily a young age group of 20 somethings. When the first one got it and wound up in the ER on oxygen you wouldn't believe the fights and blame they all threw at each other. This is my dd's friend group and thankfully she had enough sense to recognize the potential of possible spread in a large group of people and she stayed home.

I'm seeing lots of outdoor things canceled up here because of the potential of spread; festivals, baseball, fairs, concerts, etc. We do not want to go backward when it took so long to slow the spread. JMO, from what I've seen and personally experienced with how it spread to people we know it's naive to believe that any large gathering of people in close proximity to each other won't/can't spread it, whether indoors or outdoors. My personal opinion is that you probably won't get it in just passing someone, but standing or sitting stationary near someone for a length of time past a few minutes increases your chances of getting it.

Again, JMO but I don't think anyone should be doing unnecessary travel right now. And I'm not basing my opinion on news stories, defending my rights, perceived hoaxes or threats. I'm basing in on having gone through the initial wave of infection living in a hot spot, knowing lots of people who have had it and some who have died and for me, it's just not worth it. Aside from that, our state has a mandatory 14 quarantine now if we travel and return from 16 states that are having a rise in cases.... so we won't be going anywhere for a while anyway. I'm actually glad they imposed that.

I agree with you. I guess I meant that indoors, without masks is where it's most prevalent. I agree that outdoors, no masks and close together is not a good idea. I haven't seen widespread evidence that the protests caused spikes in those cities, but from what I saw on the news, most of the protesters were wearing masks. It actually surprised me that we didn't see more of a spike to be honest.

I'm in NJ, and agree completely that there should be no unnecessary travel. It's foolish and goes against C.D.C guidelines. And we're seeing our cases surge in this county, and it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[DopeyDame]

Well, it's clear DeSantis won't be the one to shut down anything. He's now mandating that schools open:

"Under the emergency order, all public schools will be required to reopen in August for at least five days a week and to provide the full array of services required by law, including in-person instruction and services for students with special needs. "

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article244039247.html

 

[cmp3400]

I also read this morning that covid parties are now a thing. Apparently one FL woman decided to take her child who had previously had cancer and had immunodeficiency issues to a church covid party. Bonkers.

And sadly that isn't even the craziest decision that mom made in the situation--and that teenager did not survive. It is a heartbreaking story that makes me sick

 

[anthony2k7]

I have seen several science people discussing in the last few days that there is now growing thought that the virus is indeed airborne. Or rather, as the virus particals are so small, they are able to attach to other airborne PM10 particles such as pollution or even pollen. So it may well be that the virus can stay in the air for significantly longer amounts of time than previously thought.

Now thats scary.

 

[mckennarose]

I haven't seen widespread evidence that the protests caused spikes in those cities, but from what I saw on the news, most of the protesters were wearing masks. It actually surprised me that we didn't see more of a spike to be honest.

Now that masks are mandatory a lot of places, I'm seeing people wearing them, but not all masks or how they wear them is equal. Lots and lots of people have them below their noses, or on their chins, or they gap on the sides. All of that can cause spread. Especially when you're sitting or standing so close. And not all masks are made with materials that will stop the virus particles from leaking out.

The bottom line is that people are and should be accountable for themselves. I've seen arguments on DIS about the government is not doing enough, the government is doing too much and over reaching, parks and businesses should close, they should open but with proper protocol, etc, etc, etc. You have to protect yourself and loved ones and if that means wearing an uncomfortable mask or not traveling, or not going to a party or protest, or going to Disney or not, then you do it. Don't wait for someone else make those decisions, figure out what you need to do personally. (that's not directed at you... it's in general) Just because Disney is opening doesn't mean I think it's anywhere near safe enough to travel to a state/area with a lot of rising cases. Especially since ours have finally gone down. It's not gone away completely up here, but it's slowing.

I'm in NJ, and agree completely that there should be no unnecessary travel. It's foolish and goes against C.D.C guidelines. And we're seeing our cases surge in this county, and it will get worse before it gets better.

I'm waiting to see what the next two to three weeks brings here after the 4th of July holiday weekend. I saw some larger parties, all outdoors around here, but I think it will have a jump.

 

[anthony2k7]

The biggest problem with masks is that people aren't wearing them in all risks scenarios.

How many people wear them when visiting family and friends homes and get within 6ft of those people? Or when people are in cars with other people?

I think generally they aren't being worn in many of the higher risk scenarios.

 

[Searc]

https://www.nationalreview.com/news...4x4oG-viQh6ygTCWkoursHzeex3Aojg4kL3JluOznOnCY

NR is in no way a credible source.

 

[dlavender]

Above 16% positivity rate is not something I would have thought was even in the realm of possibilities a month ago.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Florida records its highest positivity rate ever, as 16.27% of tests from Monday came back positive. The crisis level marker is 10%

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

This has certainly highlighted to me a lot of personality traits, even in some people I really wouldn't expect it from.

Selfishness seems quite a driving factor in almost everyone.

I'm also seeing a lot of people who were 100% behind the lockdown and being cautious during the lockdown now not bother at all with social distancing. I can't figure out if they think it is now somehow safe to just do what they want or if they just got so tired of it all they can't be bothered with it regardless of the risk.

This! I can’t get over the number of people who continually posted about staying home and truthfully shaming other people, who now have seemed to throw caution to the wind. Who continue to post about wearing a mask and then post pictures of multi family get togethers where there are no masks or social distancing. It’s crazy to me.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Would you even want to go on a Haunted Mansion without a stretching room? I think not.

 

[skyblue17]

I have seen several science people discussing in the last few days that there is now growing thought that the virus is indeed airborne. Or rather, as the virus particals are so small, they are able to attach to other airborne PM10 particles such as pollution or even pollen. So it may well be that the virus can stay in the air for significantly longer amounts of time than previously thought.

Now thats scary.

While this might be true, I think we'd be seeing far higher rates in the northeast states if that's the case, and things are still pretty evened out here. I am in Connecticut now and go for a walk on our "canal" almost every morning. I always have a mask with me and pull it up when anyone gets near, but many people walking/running/biking do not have it. I personally have relaxed to the point where I do not think it likely that a less than ten second passing of someone outdoors is going to cause much, so maybe this is more related to larger scale outdoor gatherings, or longer exposure, but a LOT of people are outdoors and keeping distance without masks and aren't contracting the virus, so perhaps it's even a viral load thing. Either way, being outdoors and keeping a solid distance when possible still seems better than most other options.

 

[SirDuff]

Florida records its highest positivity rate ever, as 16.27% of tests from Monday came back positive. The crisis level marker is 10%

The main driver of positivity is the breadth of testing. Percent positive is used to measure the level of testing - any benchmark refers to countries/states/regions meeting testing recommendations not an indication that the level of disease is "in crisis".

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/testing-positivity
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

 

[KBoopaloo]

Universal probably didn't bring many people into FL from out of state who then took the virus home with them.

Wdw is gonn bring 10s of thousands in from out of state who may then take the virus home with them.

This. I thought Universal was nuts for opening when they did but their early crowd levels have shown that for the most part it was only locals going or some folks who ultimately decided to still take their trip even with Disney closed and go to Universal instead. WDW opening is an entirely different ballgame and I am worried about the concept of thousands of visitors traveling into what is a major hotspot right now, spending 4,5,6 days there and then going back home with their souvenirs and potentially this virus.

I live in a state that had a truly hellacious spring but we locked ourselves down, put on our masks and we are in a really good place now with consistently low percentages of tests coming back positive (right around 2%). We worked hard to get there and it was not fun. We are *just* starting to open up and just starting to look towards fall and maybe being able to open schools. I ate at a restaurant (outside!) for the first time in four months last week. If all of this work gets thrown out the window because a good number of people here still take their Disney vacations and come back with the virus and we end up close to where we started it would be devastating.

 

[musika]

As a non-American I'm just completely gobsmacked by the overall American response to this virus. I mean, sure, some states have got their act together but just the overall lack of the national coordinated strategy and the way even mask wearing has become politicized? Wow.

To answer the original question, you could not pay me to visit Florida right now. Mild cases or not, risk factors or not, I think common sense would just tell you that the more people that are infected, the more chance you have of being infected yourself. I am not willing to put myself or my family in that type of risk zone for the sake of a vacation.

Then again, we also haven't let our kids in a store in 4 months. And our province has 4 active cases right now that are all related to travel only. I'll stay in my own relatively safe bubble, thanks.

 

[Searc]

As a non-American I'm just completely gobsmacked by the overall American response to this virus. I mean, sure, some states have got their act together but just the overall lack of the national coordinated strategy and the way even mask wearing has become politicized? Wow.

To answer the original question, you could not pay me to visit Florida right now. Mild cases or not, risk factors or not, I think common sense would just tell you that the more people that are infected, the more chance you have of being infected yourself. I am not willing to put myself or my family in that type of risk zone for the sake of a vacation.

Then again, we also haven't let our kids in a store in 4 months. And our province has 4 active cases right now that are all related to travel only. I'll stay in my own relatively safe bubble, thanks.

Many American's are gobsmacked, too, though I guess we shouldn't be.

 

[dlavender]

The main driver of positivity is the breadth of testing. Percent positive is used to measure the level of testing - any benchmark refers to countries/states/regions meeting testing recommendations not an indication that the level of disease is "in crisis".

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/testing-positivity
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

That's not really true.

It means that there's a lot more people testing positive than you want. So 80k tests a day are now bringing back triple the amount of sick people than before. Which means it is spreading faster.

Now, I agree we need more and more testing. We've needed that for months now. We aren't going to get it, I've given up. That has to come from the top, and well, let's just say its not going to.