VGC New Owner / Use Year Issue

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

Yes, we knew when we signed our contract that our March UY would not get points until 2010; however, we were led to believe that EVERYONE (all UY's) would have to wait to get points until 2010; our guide never once mentioned that June through December UY's would get 2009 points, but we would not. Had she informed us of this we would absolutely have chosen a new, June UY, for we purchased 160 points, so having a new master contract would not have been an issue for us (neither would the hassle of having two Use Years, for we plan to sell our SSR contract soon).

Had we been told that others were getting 2009 points, but we would not, our first move would have been to change to a June UY. . . . Had we only been given the whole story. . . NOW we know the questions to ask, but now it is too late.

In fact, we never knew anyone was getting 2009 points until a few months after signing our contracts in January, when I read here on the DIS that some VGC owners were receiving 2009 points. As already mentioned, by then, it was too late.

Forever Cruising, This really sums up my feelings on the situation as well. My guide conveniently didn't let me know that others were getting 2009 points but that we weren't. I've requested another guide but haven't heard anything back yet from DVC.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

While the opening date of the resort is one factor, another would be the projected sales track for each property.

Since BLT is a much larger resort DVC could, in effect, use the points from unsold units at the time of opening to subsidize that first year's points for members. In the case of VGC, I suspect DVC projected that the resort would be much closer to sold-out (if not completely gone) by opening day. Thus there would have been little-to-no unsold points to help pad the accounts of early buyers.

Even though the resort is opening sooner than expected and sales are apparently quite slow, it probably doesn't matter since the first point allocation is listed in the contract. My contract says point start February 2010, so that's what DVC is obligated to give me.

I don't believe there was any duplicity on DVC's part--they were simply working from projections available when sales began 6 months ago.

Tim, After reading the above again and learning a little more about this "you don't get 2009 points because you have a Feb-Mar-April UY" it makes me wonder about this whole projected sales scenario that you outlined above.

Back in March/April when I bought my points and the resort was going to open in December, which UY's were told that they were going to receive 2009 points. It would seem to me that no one would be getting 2009 points back then. At some point, buyers had to be contacted and told that the resort was opening earlier and that you are now getting points for 2009 that you didn't originally think you were going to get. I'm not sure if that would have been based on sales figures or simply the fact that the resort was ready to open earlier than expected.

This whole idea of arbitrarily picking a few months as not being eligible for 2009 points is unfair and very secretive. Why were Feb-March-April singled out as not being eligible for 2009 points? I know that it has something to do with inventory but after that the details get very sketchy.And believe me, I've tried to get details from every source that I've been referred to-Quality Assurance, Member Services, Member Administration, Member Accounting, my useless Guide- but everybody passes the buck to some one else.

This situation has truly soured me on own my purchase. I hate spending $11,000 and feeling that I got less in return for my money than others who spent the same $11,000 on the same day. The other bothersome item here for me is that my sale and my dollars were used to declare DVC inventory so that members can start booking those rooms (my room) but I'm not one of the members who received points.

Believe me, I'll enjoy my incentive cruise in December and I'll enjoy my first trip to VGC when I get there in 2011 or 2012 or whenever they finish CarsLand but I'll never forget this slimy add-on lesson from DVC.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

I might be able to shed some light on why some are "seeing" their 2009 VGC points and others are not.

A couple days ago I called to book a non-VGC trip and had to borrow two points from my VGC holdings. Prior to this time there was no mention of 2009 VGC points in my account either.

While making this reservation the rep had to put me on hold for a few minutes. When she came back on, she said something about needing to get help to "fix the use year" on those VGC points.

When I looked at the website later, like Robo-Daddy 3000 my 2009 totals included the VGC allocation although I was never able to use those points.

So it may be something that has to be "fixed" in the computer whenever someone books with their VGC points for the first time. Or perhaps when VGC points are borrowed.

I was on the phone yesterday with Member Services for nearly an hour regarding this subject.

After speaking with 3 different people (who all gave me different explanations in an effort to get me off the phone), I finally spoke with a supervisor who was able to explain why I'm seeing the points in 2009UY even though she told me over and over that I was not actually receiving 2009UY points because I have March UY.

Here is the deal. I was borrowing 2010 VGC points into my 2009UY. But because I didn't receive 2009 points because of my unworthy March UY, there was no place or no folder in which to put my borrowed points in my 2009 UY. Thus, in order for me to borrow VGC points from 2010 to 2009, Member Services had to manually create a folder in 2009 so that my points would have a place to stay in 2009. So by creating this folder, it shows more total points in my account for 2009 than I actually have because I didn't actually receive 100 VGC points in 2009 even though it now looks like I did.

 

[thelionqueen]

Well, my new master GCV saga continues.....
I got my re-write docs which again, my guide ASSURED me I would be getting 2009 points with my Feb UY. Can you guess what I found out? YUP, no 2009 points. I spoke with a supervisor who very matter-a-factly (not rude at all) why I woudn't qualify for 2009 points. She indicated that since the resort was not open until Sept., there has to be a "reasonable" amount of time between the advertised opening and the actual opening to allow for 2009 points. I have no idea why, but this explanation made total sense to me right off the bat. Since GCV didn't open until Sept, by law, a reasonable amount of time to offer/supply 2009 points is 3 months. Hence, no 2009 points for UY's before May 2009.
I explained to her that my guide ASSURED me I would get 2009 points with my Feb UY; she said that was incorrect. He entered my UY as Feb 2010..UGH

Anyway, I am changing my UY from Feb to Dec for this contract (assuming I can get a Dec UY). The supervisor told me that it was not a good idea to have a UY within 4 months of our normal travel dates. We usually travel in May & Oct (this year Dec-so, depending on the quality of this trip, could be May/Dec). Stating that if we had to cancel our vacation plans for any reason, having a UY within a month or so would only allow that amount of time to use the booked/then returned points. Made sense to me as well.

I know I've heard over and over why you should keep the same UY, but I really don't want to lose out on 120 basically "free" points. If renting those (NOT going to btw) that is a value of over $1200!

So, I've got a call into my guide again to see if a) I can get a Dec UY and b) for him to explain why it would be worth $1200+ to keep the Feb UY I have.

This situation is very frustrating for a lot of us, but I am keeping my chin up and a positive attitude I'll keep you posted....

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well, my new master GCV saga continues.....
I got my re-write docs which again, my guide ASSURED me I would be getting 2009 points with my Feb UY. Can you guess what I found out? YUP, no 2009 points. I spoke with a supervisor who very matter-a-factly (not rude at all) why I woudn't qualify for 2009 points. She indicated that since the resort was not open until Sept., there has to be a "reasonable" amount of time between the advertised opening and the actual opening to allow for 2009 points. I have no idea why, but this explanation made total sense to me right off the bat. Since GCV didn't open until Sept, by law, a reasonable amount of time to offer/supply 2009 points is 3 months. Hence, no 2009 points for UY's before May 2009.
I explained to her that my guide ASSURED me I would get 2009 points with my Feb UY; she said that was incorrect. He entered my UY as Feb 2010..UGH

Anyway, I am changing my UY from Feb to Dec for this contract (assuming I can get a Dec UY). The supervisor told me that it was not a good idea to have a UY within 4 months of our normal travel dates. We usually travel in May & Oct (this year Dec-so, depending on the quality of this trip, could be May/Dec). Stating that if we had to cancel our vacation plans for any reason, having a UY within a month or so would only allow that amount of time to use the booked/then returned points. Made sense to me as well.

I know I've heard over and over why you should keep the same UY, but I really don't want to lose out on 120 basically "free" points. If renting those (NOT going to btw) that is a value of over $1200!

So, I've got a call into my guide again to see if a) I can get a Dec UY and b) for him to explain why it would be worth $1200+ to keep the Feb UY I have.

This situation is very frustrating for a lot of us, but I am keeping my chin up and a positive attitude I'll keep you posted....

That's too bad that your guide kept assuring you of the Feb 09 points. And I've heard the explanation about the early UY's not getting it due to the opening date - HOWEVER, I will reiterate again....BLT was originally scheduled for a Sept opening and every UY was given 09 points right from the beginning so using the Sept date doesn't fly with me. Originally GCV was a Nov date but it just continues to bug me that they so over estimated the opening and didn't give the early UY's the points.

Glad you're keeping a positive attitude! As I said b4 I have the 2 UY's but wanted GCV in my Apr. due to DL travel dates. I did elect to stay with that - my decision - but it will always be a thorn with me and has done wonders to curb adding on the additional points I had planned on.

 

[DebbieB]

I was seriously considering a 75 or 80 point VGC add-on until I heard that my April use year would not get 2009 points. I saw it posted when the original sales information came out, that only June or after would get 2009. I figured I could bank the 2009 points and it would give me a little "cushion" for a few years. Since I could no longer do that, I nixed it.

 

[DVCGeek]

So, I've got a call into my guide again to see if a) I can get a Dec UY and b) for him to explain why it would be worth $1200+ to keep the Feb UY I have.

This situation is very frustrating for a lot of us, but I am keeping my chin up and a positive attitude I'll keep you posted....

I'm sorry for your situation but am very curious how attempting option A works out; I have previously read that to get a different use year you need to start a completely new membership and therefore have the standard 160 point minimum purchase (or whatever is then in effect for that resort), so I would think that may prevent your proposed 120 purchase.

Good luck!!!

 

[tjkraz]

Anyway, I am changing my UY from Feb to Dec for this contract (assuming I can get a Dec UY). The supervisor told me that it was not a good idea to have a UY within 4 months of our normal travel dates. We usually travel in May & Oct (this year Dec-so, depending on the quality of this trip, could be May/Dec). Stating that if we had to cancel our vacation plans for any reason, having a UY within a month or so would only allow that amount of time to use the booked/then returned points. Made sense to me as well.

I know I've heard over and over why you should keep the same UY, but I really don't want to lose out on 120 basically "free" points.

For whatever it's worth, I wouldn't choose a Use Year that was a mis-match for my vacation plans even if it got me some extra points. Over 50 years all you need to do is lose points once (due to inability to bank) and you're back on even footing.

Besides, when comparing a December and February Use Year, all you are really getting (from my POV) is a two month advantage.

I know it sounds more attractive to get the "2009 points", but in reality all I see happening is that you're getting your points 2 months earlier than someone with a Feb UY. If you stood to get both 2008 AND 2009 points, it might be a different situation. But the difference between getting the first set of points on 12/1/09 and 2/1/10 is very, very minimal, IMHO.

One other thing to note if you do go forward with the Dec Use Year. DVC will have to set it up as a separate Master Contract. Since you will own two masters, they will not allow you to seamlessly combine points between the two. Let's say you had 5 points left on your VGC contracts and wanted to use them with your other holdings to book a single stay at 7 months. The only way to accomplish that with two Master contracts is to TRANSFER the points from one contract to the other. And DVC only permits us 1 transfer per year.

I have 3 separate Home resorts and with straggler points from each of the contracts, I actually booked a single night using points from all 3 contracts. I was very easy to do because I have just one Master contract. If there were transfers involved, I'm not sure that I would have been able to do it. At the very least I would have been very wary of how the transfer may have handcuffed my future flexibility.

Just some food for thought...

I will reiterate again....BLT was originally scheduled for a Sept opening and every UY was given 09 points right from the beginning so using the Sept date doesn't fly with me. Originally GCV was a Nov date but it just continues to bug me that they so over estimated the opening and didn't give the early UY's the points.

BLT is different because the resort is much larger and will take longer to sell out. Effectively DVC is throwing in Developer's Points to facilitate all owners getting the 2009 points. It's not worth marketing it as such, but that's what's happening behind the scenes.

BLT has been for sale for a year now and is only about 50% gone. DVD's holdings over that period are more than sufficient to make early buyers whole on the 2009 points.

VGC is much smaller. They have only been in active sales since March. Assuming the resort sells out in a year or less, there will have been far fewer Developer's Points resulting from unsold holdings. As such, DVD probably doesn't have the excess inventory to give all buyers a full year's points. In the case of those Feb Use Years, the resort is open for barely 1/3 of their actual 2009 UY.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

BLT is different because the resort is much larger and will take longer to sell out. Effectively DVC is throwing in Developer's Points to facilitate all owners getting the 2009 points. It's not worth marketing it as such, but that's what's happening behind the scenes.

BLT has been for sale for a year now and is only about 50% gone. DVD's holdings over that period are more than sufficient to make early buyers whole on the 2009 points.

VGC is much smaller. They have only been in active sales since March. Assuming the resort sells out in a year or less, there will have been far fewer Developer's Points resulting from unsold holdings. As such, DVD probably doesn't have the excess inventory to give all buyers a full year's points. In the case of those Feb Use Years, the resort is open for barely 1/3 of their actual 2009 UY.

Tim,

I guess this is where I get confused in the explanation of developer points and inventory. BLT is larger and 50% of it is not sold out and yet all owners regardless of UY month get points in 2009. DVD didn't have to give developer points to all UY but they made a decision to subsidize the points for this year to all the BLT owners.

VGC is smaller and also not sold out and some owners don't get points and others do. And while you say that for FebUY the resort is barely open for a 1/3 of their actual UY, how does that reasoning work for April UY? With a April UY, the resort is open for over 6 months and yet they still don't get points! It doesn't seem to be consistent at all.

I still don't understand why June -July -August got 2009 points if Feb-Mar-April didn't. Just like Feb-Mar-APril, the resort wasn;t open when their UY began but yet they got points.

Are there really that many owners with Feb-Mar-April UY that it makes all the difference as to whether there is enough inventory? It feels like the purchases made by Feb-Mar-April UY owners are helping subsidize the 2009 points for the other owners who got points. That may not be accurate but that what it feels like to me.

It's too late now, of course, but all VGC owners could have been given some points if DVD thought it was worth the effort to do that. Could ALL the owners of VGC been given half the points or 3/4 of their points for 2009? I don't know the answer.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

That's too bad that your guide kept assuring you of the Feb 09 points. And I've heard the explanation about the early UY's not getting it due to the opening date - HOWEVER, I will reiterate again....BLT was originally scheduled for a Sept opening and every UY was given 09 points right from the beginning so using the Sept date doesn't fly with me. Originally GCV was a Nov date but it just continues to bug me that they so over estimated the opening and didn't give the early UY's the points.

Glad you're keeping a positive attitude! As I said b4 I have the 2 UY's but wanted GCV in my Apr. due to DL travel dates. I did elect to stay with that - my decision - but it will always be a thorn with me and has done wonders to curb adding on the additional points I had planned on.

I feel the same way as you.

 

[tjkraz]

I guess this is where I get confused in the explanation of developer points and inventory. BLT is larger and 50% of it is not sold out and yet all owners regardless of UY month get points in 2009. DVD didn't have to give developer points to all UY but they made a decision to subsidize the points for this year to all the BLT owners.

It's difficult to illustrate since there isn't a single "year" but instead 8 separate (Use) years. Set aside the UY concept for a moment and see if this makes any sense.

BLT is only open for (approx) 1/2 of the year. However, over that first year the resort is only 1/2 sold. In this scenario they have enough excess supply (villas/points) to compensate for the fact that the resort was not open the entire year.

In the case of VGC, at the very least DVC did not anticipate having the excess capacity at the end of year one to compensate for the fact that it wouldn't be open the entire year. BLT has been something like 280 units built and 140 sold over Year One. For VGC they envisioned 50 units built and 50 units sold.

VGC is smaller and also not sold out and some owners don't get points and others do. And while you say that for FebUY the resort is barely open for a 1/3 of their actual UY, how does that reasoning work for April UY? With a April UY, the resort is open for over 6 months and yet they still don't get points! It doesn't seem to be consistent at all.

I still don't understand why June -July -August got 2009 points if Feb-Mar-April didn't. Just like Feb-Mar-APril, the resort wasn;t open when their UY began but yet they got points.

The only response I can give to that is they had to draw the line somewhere. These decisions were made before the first point was ever sold. Some DVD actuary looked at anticipated sales projections and construction schedules, and determined that they didn't have capacity to absorb all buyers receiving 2009 points. So they eliminated certain Use Years.

As I said in the other part of my post, I really don't see this as being a huge deal. The years (2009 vs. 2010) are what seem to grab the most attention. But the timeframes involved are often much less than 12 months. I have a February Use Year and will get my first points on 2/1/2010. As such, I'm not particularly envious of a Dec UY owner who will get his first points a whole two months before me.

Come 2059 that Dec UY owner will get an extra set of points compared to me, but he may only have two months to use them (since contracts end on 1/31/2060) and the present value of those points is a few pennies each.

Are there really that many owners with Feb-Mar-April UY that it makes all the difference as to whether there is enough inventory?

Since there are 8 UY, it should be approximately 3/8ths of owners in those three months.

It feels like the purchases made by Feb-Mar-April UY owners are helping subsidize the 2009 points for the other owners who got points. That may not be accurate but that what it feels like to me.

For better or worse, I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment.

It's too late now, of course, but all VGC owners could have been given some points if DVD thought it was worth the effort to do that. Could ALL the owners of VGC been given half the points or 3/4 of their points for 2009? I don't know the answer.

True, DVC could have added some true "Developer's Points" so that all owners got something for 2009. But the points would have had to come from another resort and couldn't have been used to book VGC at 11 months. Apparently they decided it just wasn't worth the cost and effort.

Again as a Feb owner, I didn't feel particularly slighted when the resort opening was scheduled for the last week of November. It seems unrealistic to think that I should get 2009 points when the resort would only be open for 2 months of my UY.

When the opening date was moved up it didn't change my opinion a whole lot. It's still just 4 months of my 12-month year and DVC did disclose everything properly at the time of my purchase.

That said, if I hear of a single owner with a Feb UY getting 2009 points, DVC will certainly be getting a call from me.

 

[Robo-Daddy 3000]

It's difficult to illustrate since there isn't a single "year" but instead 8 separate (Use) years. Set aside the UY concept for a moment and see if this makes any sense.

BLT is only open for (approx) 1/2 of the year. However, over that first year the resort is only 1/2 sold. In this scenario they have enough excess supply (villas/points) to compensate for the fact that the resort was not open the entire year.

In the case of VGC, at the very least DVC did not anticipate having the excess capacity at the end of year one to compensate for the fact that it wouldn't be open the entire year. BLT has been something like 280 units built and 140 sold over Year One. For VGC they envisioned 50 units built and 50 units sold.

Thanks for your response. What you wrote makes sense. But when I speak to my guide or member satisfaction I'm told that there just isn't enough inventory at the hotel to give everyone points for 2009. But from what you are saying at VGC, they have have plenty of excess inventory and plenty of rooms available at the inn.They thought they'd sell them all but they didn't.

The only response I can give to that is they had to draw the line somewhere. These decisions were made before the first point was ever sold. Some DVD actuary looked at anticipated sales projections and construction schedules, and determined that they didn't have capacity to absorb all buyers receiving 2009 points. So they eliminated certain Use Years.

That's just poor management. Plenty of people at DVD were just thinking this was an automatic sell-out and they were very wrong.

As I said in the other part of my post, I really don't see this as being a huge deal. The years (2009 vs. 2010) are what seem to grab the most attention. But the timeframes involved are often much less than 12 months. I have a February Use Year and will get my first points on 2/1/2010. As such, I'm not particularly envious of a Dec UY owner who will get his first points a whole two months before me.

From December to Feb is not that big a deal. but... now that the resort is open, if things had been done the right way -let's say the way they handled sales at BLT -you'd already have points in '09 and two months after the Dec owners finally get their '09 points you'd be getting your second set of points.

Come 2059 that Dec UY owner will get an extra set of points compared to me, but he may only have two months to use them (since contracts end on 1/31/2060) and the present value of those points is a few pennies each.

I'll be 96 years old in 2059. My daughter will be 60. I hope she can use the points.

Since there are 8 UY, it should be approximately 3/8ths of owners in those three months.

Right I understand that there should be an equal distribution of between months but right now in its partially sold stage we really don't know if there were more owners with UY in the Feb-Mar-April who had already bought points or if there are more VGC owners from other months.

True, DVC could have added some true "Developer's Points" so that all owners got something for 2009. But the points would have had to come from another resort and couldn't have been used to book VGC at 11 months. Apparently they decided it just wasn't worth the cost and effort.

At BLT it apparently was worth the cost and effort but not at VGC.

Again as a Feb owner, I didn't feel particularly slighted when the resort opening was scheduled for the last week of November. It seems unrealistic to think that I should get 2009 points when the resort would only be open for 2 months of my UY.

When the opening date was moved up it didn't change my opinion a whole lot. It's still just 4 months of my 12-month year and DVC did disclose everything properly at the time of my purchase.

I felt the same way with Mar UY when when it going to nearly be Decemeber when it was going to open. But when they moved to an earlier opening, I could have received points and decided whether or not I wanted to use them in 2009 or bank them into 2010. I am still within my banking deadlines so it would have worked out.

Legally, I'm sure they disclosed everything properly. But when my guide said the points start in March2010 and I said "well how could there be 2009 points, the place doesn't open until like December right?" I laugh. He laughs and then we move on to the next topic. Guide doesn't say, "oh there are plenty of 2009 points being sold but just not for your UY." I feel like he should have disclosed more to me. Our next topic, btw, was how the underground self parking was going to be free for DVC members. And we know how that has turned out. [/QUOTE]

That said, if I hear of a single owner with a Feb UY getting 2009 points, DVC will certainly be getting a call from me.

I'm srue they would get plenty of calls! Tim, Thanks again for sharing your DVC knowledge.