Thoughts by a Naughty DVC Member on WDWZUES Manifesto...

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ricapito

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WDWZUES comments, as ignorant as they mostly are, are not his/her responsibility- they are Disney’s. They interviewed, screened, and investigated him. They hired him. They pay him. They are responsible for his satisfaction. They produce, and more importantly, market, “magic.” Magic, perfection, and a surreal fairytale experience are a very big hurdles-ones they chose and set for themselves. This is what is marketed, is what the Disney brand is, is the way they hold themselves out to be judged, and is their competitive differentiator. It isn’t price. We all pay dearly for this tall hurdle to be met.

I spend no less than $3000 all told for my yearly pilgrimage to Walt’s place, and others spend much more. I come at the invitation of Disney marketing, and I am demanding- but not rude. It is my biggest variable expenditure of the year. I can’t measure the joy I derive from escaping reality with my family, lowering my blood pressure, and re-establishing family as the most important part of my life when that fact can subtly get lost in the stresses of the year. I expect a lot. I forgive and overlook things that are honest error. I don’t forgive laziness, rudeness, cut corners, sloppiness, or mismanagement. Nope. Maybe it’s the Northeast in me, but I remind CM’s politely, but also rather directly, when I feel they missed the mark. I don’t expect to be “comped”, I just expect it to be fixed for the rest of you.

Shareholders and Eisner et al need growth/earnings. As that impacts the WDW numerator it translates into more park/resort visitors, spending more on admission and products, more often. We, as DVC owners, provide invaluable stability and predictability of revenues. Our behavior is inelastic- we attend and spend regardless of publicity or economic climate. It is a privilege to have customers, investors actually, like us.

The denominator, cost, equates to squeezing more visitors into the existing parks and resorts, paying employees less, eliminating benefits and perks etc. Cost containment is an economic fact of life. Walt Disney obviously envisioned profitability. But did Walt Disney really dream of shareholders and corporate types as keepers of the magic? Was this his vision? I’m not sure there is an alignment of interests in perpetuity, as shareholders demand yearly increases in growth and profitability. Something has to suffer eventually as WDW is a limited commodity, especially the MK. It can’t be duplicated.

So how does this weigh on CM’s like WDWZUES and the overall experience? My visit the first week of January: debilitating “off peak” crowds, admission increases in most flavors with the “Magic Your Way” tix, and though I’ve warmed to SSR quite a bit, there is no denying the underlying economics are noticeable in some respects more than at other DVC properties. (size..., space, self-serve restaurant, perhaps themed pool size). Importantly for this ramble, I had a number of less than memorable CM experiences. Are they paid enough to be retained and give a damn about visitors? Are they trained enough? Did HR investigate and screen them enough? Do they work too many hours? Are there enough of them to handle the crowds and guest volume without getting overwhelmed? (I realize they are only human) Most of all, does Disney marketing realize you can’t pay Ford wages and expect/market Lexus quality to be delivered by a CM? I’m paying for a Lexus, thanks. I want a Lexus, not excuses, not apologies, and not bitter CM’s like WDWZUES. I expect to be treated special, to have CM’s go the extra mile. While it isn’t the case yet, I truly fear that Disney shareholder demands will come between me and my utopia at some point.

Why apologize for or deny our demanding nature when in fact it is invited and paid for? WDWZUES and his manifesto are merely symptoms of a bigger problem: WDW is no longer one man’s dream. It is a rational economically self-interested publicly traded business....and it is up to us to politely yet vocally remind Disney what it stands for when it forgets. Don't change a thing, just be respectful. We, DVC members more than anybody, are the keepers of the magic.

Take Care,

Bryan
 
Perfect, thank you for taking the time to post this.
I have been going to WDW since I was a baby. Over the years I've noticed the unfortunate changes. The success of the Disney parks was built on that "going the extra mile". The parks were clean, freshly painted, CMs smiled at you and the escape from reality was there. I'm afraid Eisner's era have forgotten what made the Disney name what it is. Walt would not find much of today's company acceptable.
Having a front desk manager with that kind of attitude is a sure fire way to spread negativity below the ranks. They are supposed to be the role model.
I could go on, but I should be in bed asleep.
 
sorry but i dont really align with your thinking at all ricapito...........DVC is not supposed to provide Lexus service and quite frankly i dont think we pay that much to feel entitled to that service, and yes before you ask i own Disney stock and have been to every share holder meeting since 1973.............if you want that go stay at a 5 star hotel with room service and a maid and no kitchen then go because your expectations are not in alignment with what DVC really is all about and what they market quite frankly..............your expectations are more in alignment with the Greenbriar...........and when you do you'll find that staying there will cost you a whole lot more than DVC or your dues...........i know because i used to frequent that scene alot.........25 yrs worth.........i have stayed in hotels that truly cost a kings ransom, not what DVC membership costs, and there one does get, and should expect five star service..........DVC is not about that at all in my view, if it is yours i suggest you go to one and pay that bill and i am quite sure you will understand the value and worth of what DVC supplies.........it is about the magic of family and a place to share it, it is not about the resort service or the workers attitude. While that should be acceptable it should not be required for you and yours to have a great vacation............it is not DVC or disney's goal to provide it either........it is yours to explore and find it there with your family and friends..........your vision of DVC is not mine and that is my opinion

and Len i do agree Disney has declined under eisner and he does need to adapt or be removed.........that is currently happening given how shareholders are voting
 
it is about the magic of family and a place to share it, it is not about the resort service or the workers attitude. While that should be acceptable it should not be required for you and yours to have a great vacation............it is not DVC or Disney's goal to provide it either

But, would we all have bought into DVC if we thought the service would not be up to Disney standards? It IS all about WDW providing magic for us. That is what the parks and themed resorts are all about. If that wasn't there, I could just take my family to another vacation destination, any old timeshare or hotel would do. But, I wanted that extra "magic". It is fun and that is what I paid for. And I do believe that was Walt's original goal.

I'm also a shareholder along with the rest of my family and I don't see how voting did anything. Eisner still stayed, despite the record breaking votes against him.
 

Eisners croonies on the board are gone and so is his protection. It is do or die time for Mike right now. And your definition of "Disney standards" might be very different than mine and others and vice versa. Writing this right now i feel it is. As for Disney, the place would be magical without any customer service to me. The service we do get to me is the extra whip cream upon the sundae but i dont think it is required to make your vacation a success. We have had several vacations where we just go to the beach or pool and never par take in the parks at all and our trips are no less magical..........so yes i do think that some peoples expectations will not meet up to reality..............if you want Lexus service expect a room at 1000 bucks a night...........you can get it but i dont expect it at DVC.......and for that i am grateful........but more often than not i get it for free and that makes our second home special, but because you expect it does not mean your entitled to it and when it is not up to your standards can you take it out on CM's...................................but i dont feel i am entitled to it because i paid to join or i pay fees..............that is the part of the equation i dont see...........DVC is a lifestyle choice for you and your family...........ultimately it is what you make of it
 
Well said, Bryan.

There's no reason that "treating others as you wish to be treated" and expecting the type of service that Disney promises cannot go hand-in-hand. Voicing one's displeasure isn't necessarily synonymous with openly berating a CM.

I DON'T expect balloons and pixie dust.
I DO expect friendly CMs willing to offer a smile.
I DON'T expect free lunches, dinners or room upgrades.
I DO expect a clean room that's ready by 4pm.
I DON'T expect perfection.
I DO expect people who STRIVE for perfection, even if they occasionally miss the mark.

This isn't about "I paid XXX and I'm entitled to XXX." This IS about the differences between the product that Disney markets and the product that Disney delivers.

And frankly I resent anyone who tells me that my expectations are too high.
 
ricapito said:
WDWZUES comments, as ignorant as they mostly are, a...snip...We, DVC members more than anybody, are the keepers of the magic.
Take Care,
Bryan

To me, this post is the epitome of the arrogant, entitlement mentality the OP was discussing. Hopefully, it was done as a joke, or a feeble attempt at satire.
I didn't consider the OP's comments as ignorant----I saw them as frustration with being treated like dirt by some jerk who thinks he's better than others because he has a few bucks tied up in something. The modest amount of money we all have tied up in DVC, or anything else, doesn't entitle us to demean others just because we think it's our right or because we see ourselves as superior. I'm sure the vast majority of DVC owners are not the intended subject of the OP's remarks. But, as a long time owner, I've seen more than my share of members who attempt to get some advantage through intimidation----at the front desk, in Olivia's, or with the house keeping staff. It happens every trip, and we make four trips annually. No matter where you go or how much you spend, there will always be a chance for something to go wrong-----I've always been glad the fellow that the Waldorf Astoria checked into my room before I checked out wasn't armed. Handling these types of situations with patience, grace, and class was the way I was taught. Obviously that's that true for everyone. JMHO
 
tjkraz said:
Well said, Bryan.

There's no reason that "treating others as you wish to be treated" and expecting the type of service that Disney promises cannot go hand-in-hand. Voicing one's displeasure isn't necessarily synonymous with openly berating a CM.

I DON'T expect balloons and pixie dust.
I DO expect friendly CMs willing to offer a smile.
I DON'T expect free lunches, dinners or room upgrades.
I DO expect a clean room that's ready by 4pm.
I DON'T expect perfection.
I DO expect people who STRIVE for perfection, even if they occasionally miss the mark.

This isn't about "I paid XXX and I'm entitled to XXX." This IS about the differences between the product that Disney markets and the product that Disney delivers.

And frankly I resent anyone who tells me that my expectations are too high.
Sorry but the more you spend in the tourist business the better service you'll ususally get. That is why the have categories on ships and why some cruise lines cost more.....it is also why the holiday inn is cheaper than the Phoenician...............and yes i do get better service at Greenbriar than i do at DVC..........and i am not at all surprised by this. Your expectations should be high for DVC but they should be based in reality as well......DVC was never meant to preserve concierge level care..............i fyou want it go pay for it...........but there is a bit of arrogance to the original post that i am not comfortbale with and now i am seeing why the OP felt the need to post. I guess on this issue i am being enlightened once again.
 
While yes - you DO pay for service in the tourism industry - you can find EXCELLANT service in TRULY moderately priced properties. I believe that "special service" is instilled from the top - it is management's responsibility to set the standard for the service. It does NOT have to be a 5 star resort to acheive it - nor does the staff have to be incredibly paid.

In a not so distant "former life" I worked for a travel agency - thus had opportunity to stay at all levels of hotel properties. I EXPECTED more out of the "Lexus" hotels - and frankly was often disappointed. A simple smile on the face of the person at the front desk can make all the difference in the world.

This past year we drove through Little Rock and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. I recieved better treatment there than in ANY hotel I've ever stayed in. To a T every member of the staff was friendly with a smile, there were fresh flowers in the lobby, the continental breakfast was plentiful and the "hot things" HOT... Even down to our bed being turned down and the toilet paper having a little gold embossed sticker. No - I wasn't traveling in a travel agent capacity - we stopped in as the night got late with no reservation. ... AND we paid less than 100.00 for the night for a family of four. We felt like we were valued guests. NOW - if a little motel in Little Rock can accomplish this (paying their employees "Little Rock wages" - why in the world can't Disney accomplish this?

We don't own DVC - however I do think that Disney markets the DVC properties as very high end... and probably rightfully so, but I would find it disappointing if I had to deal with someone like WDWZUES as a member of the staff.
 
glad to hear you had a nice experience at holiday in express............sounds like you got alot of extra love...........good for you........but i know you did not expect it..........but when i go to the Greenbriar it is expected and it is delivered always because i am paying for it............at Disney it is not a right to get it, like it is at the Greenbriar, but one ususally gets exceptional service without having to pay; that is what has made disney special....................just because you "pay" to own a piece of the magic does not entitle you to demand superb customer service at all times. Disney is not considered high end in the tourist world, expensive sure, but it is not in the top 10% of luxury resorts. That is not its niche, families are its niche There is a fine distinction between what you get and what you think your entitled to, and is the point of this entire thread. Becasue Disney has delivered the extra for so many yrs now people think they should all get it because it has been customary to several generations...........that is where the problem seems to be coming from.
 
Have we had any real proof that wdwzues truly is a CM?
 
well one of theother CM here think they know who wdwzeus is...........she posted that in zeus's thread
 
Ricapito's original post was very captivating and had me quite interested. I would go as far as to say that I was in total agreement. It was spot on the target. A little arrogant perhaps, but aren't we all, at times?

I especially like the Ford wages and Lexus service analogy. Problem is that those lines are being blurred more and more every day. Not just by Dinsey but by many other organizations.

I feel very very strongly that the bottom line in all this relates to the golden rule. "Do unto others as you would have done to you." It has worked exceptionally well for myself time and time again. Being patient and respectful, no matter what the situation may be, is a key part of the equation. Have I expected compenation or a perk for a problem or disappointment at times? Sure I have. But I have always communicated my requests and or expectations in a gentlemanly manner. And I have to tell you that nine times out of ten - it works! No demands, just a polite request, with the understanding that if I don't get what I am asking for that is COMPLETELY acceptable, many other opportunities will come. Life is short.

I really used to be the guy who would ***** and moan and squeaky-wheel till I got greased. Funny thing was that was many years ago, when I was earning one fifth of my current salary, and I can say that I really did not have a "big picture" understanding of business and even of something as simple as the "golden rule." I was a big time "scarcity mentality" type of guy. Those of you who are following me now know exactly what I am talking about.

I have matured an immeasureable amount in my 33 short years on this earth. I can only hope to become more poitive and more open hearted and understanding each and every day. And know that in the end I will be a better man for it. More importantly my children will hopefully learn from me also.
 
What is at issue here is perception - what "magic" means to me, may or not be the same definition for you and your family, or for the Disney corporation for that matter. I have heard and seen in all of my trips to Disney World obnoxious, arrogant and rude people - but guess what? I see the same kind of people each and everyday in my own city too. The problem is that people think because they are spending their hard-earned money at the most "magical place" on earth (perception vs. reality here), then they are allowed to demand and receive outrageous things. As FamilyGuy and others have posted, it's about common courtesy and respect - I am constantly asked by my colleagues why my students respect me and don't give me a hard time in class (I am a Special Education teacher @ alternative high school) and the answer is plain and simple - I treat them with respect and therefore I hope that once they leave my classroom, they do the same to others. My point being, if guests are rude (and we've all seen this a million times!) then this just seeks to frustrate the CM, and vice versa. It's not rocket science!

I did take insult to the op's thread because I analyzed it for predujice and bias and saw lots of it (financial class statements)! As someone who fights everyday to teach young people that there is no place for this in society, I became frustrated after reading the post because as an adult in a position of authority, this CM's (if he/she really is one) perception is a bit clouded in terms of what types of people should frequent Disney World, what types of people cause problems at Disney World, stereotyping all DVC members, etc... In my humble opinion, these views are far more dangerous than pointing out the obvious about human nature and the rudeness of people. Even though I am Canadian and don't celebrate Martin Luther King Day (although we do acknowledge it in my classroom), I found it offensive that this person shared his/her opinions on a day that honours a man who fought against these very same views!

Tiger
 
Just because I expect Disney standards doesn't mean I am rude to the CMs. Disney markets a certain kind of product and I paid for that cause I wanted that product. Like I said earlier if I didn't want that Disney difference I could have bought at a different timeshare for less.

I don't think it is fair to use the Lexus theory. I knew when I bought in that I wouldn't have housekeeping, etc. This is a timeshare. But, I do expect the front desk check in to have a Disney attitude. I discussed this with my hubby last night. Of our DVC trips so far, only once did the check in person make us feel excited. He was so friendly. It was a great way to start off the trip. The other trips the check in experience was mediocre at best and twice the CM was almost borderline rude.

Look, you can tell me I got the dumpster view, but if you say it with a smile and are friendly it wouldn't seem so bad. Say it to me with attitude and the trip starts off on a sour note. It is all about the manner in which you present a situation, and that front desk manager in that other thread didn't seem to get that.

My Dad worked for Holiday Inn for over thirty years and when I took him to BCV he was amazed at the front desk staff's attitude. I don't expect concierge service, but I do expect a smile at check in because that is what has set Disney apart in the past and what is marketed and that is want I decided I wanted to invest in.

I don't feel sorry for that front desk manager at all cause it sounds like he brought alot of it upon himself with his attitude. Their comments regarding culture and class was about the most arrogant thing I've ever heard so no, I don't find it arrogant of me to want a smile when I walk up to the desk to check in.
 
Bongo59: We simply don't share the same opinion. I appreciate the lesson on what 5 star hotels cost and what they deliver. But I've stayed at quite a few myself. They are 5 stars not solely because of what is charged or what is paid to the employees, but because of management and training more than anything else, and because the employees like their jobs. Please don't try and convince me patrons at a 5 star hotel are less, or even equally as demanding, as those as a DVC resort. Also, you are one step short of attacking and berating posters on this thread with your responses, do you realize how you are coming across?

JCTWIZZER: This post wasn't satire. I wasn't being arrogant. (but I'm open to the criticism that it can be interpreted that way- though I repeatedly made the point about being polite and respectful). WDWZUES chose to label people based on economic class and geography. This is ignorance that shines like a beacon. I'm not apologetic, no remorse here at all. His comments were ignorant. I just want to make sure I'm clear on that...
 
Well said, ricapito! Although WDWZUES comments were posted in a DVC forum, I think his/her attitude refects to some degree the "dumbing down" of the WDW cast. I have vacationed in WDW 5 times since 1994 (2 DVC trips, 3 standard on-property hotel). The best experiences were the trips in 1994 and 2000. Since then, I have noticed a general degredation in the level and quality of service provided by the cast member community in general. Most do their jobs very well, but I don't believe the cast member staff performance is held to the same level as it used to be. I don't believe they are trained as "zealously" as they have in the past, nor do they staff in the numbers they used to.
In 1994, I remember each restroom having a cast member posted in it, keeping it spotless. That certainly was not the case during my last trip (11/2004). During that trip, I was surprised how much was over looked. We stayed at the Contemporary, and the leve of service did not match its designation as a deluxe hotel. The one item that stands out the most was the tables out by the pool/pool bar. They were covered in grime, looking like they hadn't been wiped down in weeks. I would think ensuring the tables are clean would be part of daily punch list.
I list one more example, then I'll sign off. On out 11/04 trip, we were at the Grand Floridian, Disney's premier hotel, for lunch one day. After lunch, we walked throught the lobby to the shops. I noticed a tray of leftover food aparantly from someones counter-service lunch they enjoyed in the lobby. We shopped for about an hour. On our way out, the tray was still there. You would think that in an hour, a manager or other cast member would have occasion to walk through the lobby of Disney's premier hotel and would have picked it up.
As ricapito said, if it weren't marketed (and have past history) as providing a superior, magical experience, perhaps we wouldn't have such high expectations. But they do, and we do.

:rolleyes:
 
I think what we're seeing is just a sign of the times we live in. We have a customer base that feel they are entitled to everything their way regardless of how it affects the next guy ( "Don't you give me the dumpster view-let the next guy have it!!" ) and a workforce with the attitude that they're not getting "paid enough to care that much". When the planets align and Mr Entitled meets Mr Minimum Wage nothing good is going to come from it. When Mr Good DVC meets Mr Min Wage, it's not terrible, but Mr DVC is a little less them impressed with WDW in general. When Mr Entitled meets Mr Great CM, again it's not terrible, but Mr CM forms an opinion that all DVC members are jerks.

Money isn't the answer either. An employee that doesn't care at $6.00 an hour isn't going to care 33% more at $8.00 an hour. You either care about what you're doing in life - regardless of what it is or how much it pays - or you don't. Especially when it comes to dealing with the public in a customer service job. How you treat people is not a dollar issue.
 
I feel Eisner and the current management are alot to blame in the decline of morale of the current CMs.
Most trips we deal with the resort staff at check in only. I think the front desk staff represent the resort the most of any of the other staff members. Their attitude in my opinion sets the mood for the resort and lays down the most impression.
With attitudes like that front desk manager it is no wonder I've had some rather unDisney like check in experiences. He was a role model to his staff. His comments were completely disrespectful and ignorant.
 
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