Thoughts by a Naughty DVC Member on WDWZUES Manifesto...

[CarolA]

Guess what?

WHO CARES WHAT YOU SPEND? It sounds to me like you are saying... I spend a lot of money so I deserved to be catered to. Hmmm.....

"Why apologize for or deny our demanding nature when in fact it is invited and paid for?"

The fact that you admit you have demanding nature pretty much tells me that you bring no "Disney" magic, you expect it delivered. Attitude is 99% of life. If you "DEMAND" you will geneally be disappointed. No one likes the emperor.

 

[bongo59]

Carol thank you.............you put it in a more eloquent verbiage than I............Ricapito we will have to agree to disagree because at true luxury resorts the extra money is used to pay and train people in service at the highest levels and at those places it is not only expected but one is entitled. I know this because i have a son who is the manager of a 5 star hotel in Chicago for the last 15 yrs who is also a DVC member. HE tells me all the time that his clients demand the best and they get the best because they have paid for it and deserve his full attention. He feels as do I, at Disney, the guest is not entitled to, but ususally is delivered these services regardless. They have come to expect it, and in my view, that is why you clearly hold your position. Because you somehow expect it and think you must get it. But again, i disagree with you and you are of course entitled to your own opinion. I just do not believe most members hold your same beliefs at DVC.

 

[ricapito]

Err, CarolA, I'm not sure you could have missed the point by a wider margin. Point was I spend far less than many others. We all know what it costs to take a family to Disney....no secret financial info or bragging involved here...

Otherwise, "demanding" doesn't equal rude or having unreasonable expectations. It means wanting what you pay for and what is marketed.

I'd also like to point out that equating what DVC membership costs with what we pay to stay to determine what type of service we should be expecting doesn't at all give a full picture. Disney isn't running just a hotel business. I'd offer that on average the cost for a family is over $500 daily on-site with meals, tix, DVC rooms, parking, tips etc figured in. That IS 5 star money!

 

[bongo59]

DVC is a timeshare.............nothing about meals tix or parks has any place in this discussion.........you just dont get it............the Disney experience in not just about your hotel room.....if concierge is what you want than sell DVC and go to the GF and demand what it is that you want...........because there your entitled to it cause your paying for that service.............DVC gives it when it can...............HUGE DISTINCTION and the cause of alot of problems in this thread.

 

[DisneySpence]

TJKRAZ one point you made about expecting your room to be ready by 4PM is a dream and this is why. YOu need not blame this on the resort or the CM's this is more a condition that has come about from the guests. Check out time is clearly stated but many guests over stay that by many hours and thus makes the clean up and prep of rooms fall behind schedule so to expect that appropriate check in is something that needs to be taken up with members and non members alike not the CM's not saying you take it up with them but you can't expect that if the guests aren't ready to own up to the problem they are creating by staying in the rooms later than planned. We met a couple on our last trip that knew the check out time and chose to go to the park for the day leaving their stuff in teh room. They stayed behing long enough for Mousekeeping to come by so they could tell them they weren't quite ready yet and asked them to come back later knowing full well it was check out time and they told us they do this every trip as they feel better having the bags locked in their room rather than in the car or at bell services. Now that to me seems to be more an issue with guests than Disney.

 

[bongo59]

what was marketed..........???? no one ever told me that i was getting top flight customer service at all levels to join DVC...........show me one brochure that says that????? YOU my friend expect it because you got it before now you think you should always get it because you own a piece of the MAGIC............sorry that is flat wrong. We clearly disagree

 

[Doctor P]

I think it is reasonable to expect the same type of preferential treatment as a DVC member as a season ticket holder for sports or theater gets over those who just buy single game or single event tickets. Should DVC members feel they are privileged? No. Should Disney step up to the plate and bend over backwards to make their "season ticket holders" feel valuable? Absolutely. And the AP discount, much as I criticized aspects of it, is certainly a way to step to the plate with respect to making DVC members feel wanted and valuable. My point is: I expect to be treated no WORSE than a cash paying customer, and when that happens it really does upset me. However, and this is a big however, that does NOT mean that there is any excuse to take things out on a poor CM or to cop an attitude--but the same should be also expected of the CM's, IMHO (and 99% of the time they EXCEED this expectation--in all the times we have spent at WDW, I can only think of three or four ugly behaving CM's which is absolutely dwarfed by hundreds who have gone out of their way to make things extra magical even when it probably is not warranted or deserved--that's part of the Disney magic). We all can use a lesson in civility and appreciation, and I do take the message of the OP on the other thread to heart. I have NEVER berated a CM at WDW that I can recall (and I don't even recall ever having a verbal disagreement with a CM, though I recall one instance where I felt the security CM was being an idiot [berating me for carrying my car keys and my tire pressure guage into MK in my fanny pack] but I did not respond or disrespect him in any way other than in my thoughts), nor do I desire to start doing so now.

 

[bongo59]

agreed and well said...............

 

[KNWVIKING]

But when I bought into DVC, I knew I was going to sacrifice certain 5 star features because it was my dues that were going to pay for all the resort service I got. Do we want to pay someone to hand out pool towels ? Do we want to pay a lifeguard at the quite pools ? Do we want to pay for extra housekeepers because I saw where she missed a spot with the vacuum cleaner ? Do we want to pay for the return of place mats so the members can take them home ? Do we want to pay to replace furniture more often because members abuse it ? Do we want to pay for a dedicated check in area at the split resorts so we're guaranteed a "Welcome Home" ?

 

[tjkraz]

TJKRAZ one point you made about expecting your room to be ready by 4PM is a dream and this is why. YOu need not blame this on the resort or the CM's this is more a condition that has come about from the guests. Check out time is clearly stated but many guests over stay that by many hours and thus makes the clean up and prep of rooms fall behind schedule...

Now that to me seems to be more an issue with guests than Disney.

Not at all. Disney makes the rules. Disney is responsible for enforcing the rules. It certainly is not proper to allow others to violate the rules and create an inconvenience for others.

IMO, this is an example of feeble management.

If a guest is not out of the room by 11am (or whatever time housekeeping is ready to clean the room), they need to take proper steps to remove the guest. If that means that a CM gets a tongue-lashing from a member, so be it. I certainly don't condone that type of behaviour, nor do I act that way myself.

But if guests are expected to be out of the room by 11, then the resort should enforce that policy. If that means removing someone's belongings and storing them with bell services, so be it.

Now, if a guest trashed a room (physical damage, etc.), then it's entirely possible that the situation was out of the resort's control. I'm not an irrational person, and frankly I've never had a bad experience with a resort in this regard. But it is imperative that the resort staff communicate properly with the member regarding variances from the expected service. I've been around these boards long enough to read multiple stories of things like this:

- Promised the room would be ready "in an hour" or "in a few minutes" for 4-5 hours running. Why set false expectations?
- Guests getting into rooms and discovering wet carpets, dirty dishes in the dishwasher and other obvious signs of lackluster housekeeping.
- Guests being told that their room is "non-handicapped" or "non-smoking" at check-in, only to find that is not true upon arrival at the room.

If a front desk employee looked me in the eye and said "sir, we were forced to clean the carpets in your room and it will probably not be dry until 6pm", I probably wouldn't be the happiest guy on the face of the earth, but I would at least be understanding. I would NEVER chew-out a CM who handled the situation in this manner.

But, to enter a room that was deemed ready for guest admittance and find a wet carpet or bedsheets that had not been changed--every single person reading these boards should find that unacceptable.

 

[bongo59]

another fine point............DVC is what it is and clearly some here have warped into their own expectations exactly what should be given.........i would urge many who believe ricapito side to go pull out every DVC literature you have and reread the whole thing. Then come talk to me.

 

[Doctor P]

KNW,

Points well taken and I do agree on the dimensions you have cited. I think part of the problem is the split resort issue. One can at least argue that BWI and BC are 5 star (or close to it) hotels, with WL quite nice but not a 5 star hotel as they are usually defined. When you retrofit (recognizing that BWV I don't think was actually retrofit, but I may be wrong) a DVC resort onto an existing fine hotel, you are going to get some disparity in expectations AND, this is key, WHAT IS REASONABLE TO EXPECT AS A RESPONSE. Cash customers at DVC resorts get daily cleaning just like a hotel (as I understand it). I would also expect as a cash customer to be treated like any other guest in that hotel complex. DVC members, IMHO, do not have the same claim to soem of the perks that might be associated with guests of the "other side" of the hotels. Now, this may be a place the the OP on the other thread may have a point--cash customers at BC and BWI MAY come from an income class that is higher than that of some DVC members and MAY be more used to the normal perks of five star living, but that STILL does not make DVC members more poorly behaved, more uncooth, or any other of those 'bad things'. Of course, there IS one thing that is an undeniable difference between regular cash customers at these resorts and DVC members (as he plants his tongue firmly in his cheek, LOL): we all know that DVC members are the smarter lot since we figured out how to give our families lifetime vacations at great resorts (with great CM's) for a fraction of what it would cost us to stay in deluxe resorts on cash reservations.

 

[DiznEeyore]

There's no reason that "treating others as you wish to be treated" and expecting the type of service that Disney promises cannot go hand-in-hand. Voicing one's displeasure isn't necessarily synonymous with openly berating a CM.

I DON'T expect balloons and pixie dust.
I DO expect friendly CMs willing to offer a smile.
I DON'T expect free lunches, dinners or room upgrades.
I DO expect a clean room that's ready by 4pm.
I DON'T expect perfection.
I DO expect people who STRIVE for perfection, even if they occasionally miss the mark.

This isn't about "I paid XXX and I'm entitled to XXX." This IS about the differences between the product that Disney markets and the product that Disney delivers.

And frankly I resent anyone who tells me that my expectations are too high.

I totally agree.

 

[ricapito]

Bongo59, I'm glad your expectations are low. Go ahead and coddle poor CM's and service and look the other way. Live life your way, but I'm not buying in. You don't have a clue what my expectations are for someone so quick to label them unreasonable. Here are a few DVC related things that I feel were unacceptable on my last trip. I dunno, maybe I am too demanding:

1. Only one CM at the front desk SSR check-in on a Sun night, it took me about an hour to get checked in. She was aggravated. The room key didn't work once I got to the room.
2. We had to show a bus driver, after 55 minutes waiting for a DTD bus, how to get to DTD from SSR!!!!! Yep, he didn't know how!
3. My 8 year old son tried striking up a brief conversation with the lifeguard while the pool was empty and he couldn't be bothered or polite, he was plain rude...
4. The DVC sales person (selling SSR of course) at DTD couldn't tell me where to find the path back to SSR and didn't want to take the time to figure it out!!!! I ended up taking the longer dark one that I found on my own.
5. After the trip I was billed for cash on one of the rooms though I repeatedly clarified it was to be points with the front desk CM.

What do I demand? A few items include: A timely accurate check-in, friendly knowledgeable well trained CM's, ease of transportaion around the resort, and people willing to look for answers when they don't have them. I'm not requesting a personal muse or anything ridiculous as you want to believe to justify your argument.

 

[greenban]

Of course we all have our own opinions, and the sharing of them is what makes the DIS and the DVC sub-boards so useful and entertaining.

IMHO ricapito was right on 100% correct. I do not detect, nor do I believe ricapito intended/implied an elitest/class/arrogance, but YMMV!

Basically, we (my family) bought in to DVC because we love Disney. Part of the reason we love Disney is the 'Disney Magic'. For me that meant a smile from every CM, special attention to my children (not only mine but all kids), spotless environs, no sticky bublegum on the ground, beautiful flowers, working bathrooms, airconditioners, light bulbs, etc. Please note these working items are not refering to DVC properties but the parks themselves. No grafitti, fresh paint, etc.

We'll in my opinion, things have lost some of their shine. Many point out the valid economic pressures, the under-paid employees, and the employees who just don't care. All of these factor in.

Reference has been made to the Greenbriar, just like I don't always agree with Consumer Reports, I don't always agree with Mobil or AAA (or whomever rates these properties). I consider the Four Season Properties (worldwide) to exceeed the Greenbriar on almost all aspects. So what, that is my opinion, your's may (and should) vary!

However, I always start off polite, and REQUEST a correction to a problem. I am not demanding, or abusive, but I expect a polite, concerned (or at least concerned acting) CM to respond in kind. Mistakes happen, sometimes they are my fault, but good manners, a caring attitude and a pride-of-self should be expected, and that doesn't make me arrogant.

This is the Magic that I believe many of us have seen missing (or diminished) from Disney overall, not just at the DVC, and not just at the BCV (sorry could not resist the cheap BCV dig, it really was just a joke, not an arogant Northeaster, demanding Disney guest!)

-Tony

P.S. Please vote on this poll, so we may answer Bongo59's question:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=719242

 

[DisneySpence]

TJ point well taken but again the CM's are going to be the ones getting craped on for doing the enforcement of the rule. I mean if the guest knowingly does this you know darn well they will rip into a CM for removing hte belongings from the room. It won't be the CM that removed them either it will be whoever the poor CM is that gets the bags for them and that is part of the problem and no CM should be made to deal with that type of riddicule because of lousy guests members or not.

 

[WDWMom]

Bongo and CarolA, I totally agree with both of you.

Dh and I were talking last night and agreed we could not come up with a single memory of a "bad" CM. Never had any problems with one and if I did, I would not let it effect the rest of my vacation. We usually stay at OKW and the CM's are super. Stayed 2 nights at BCV last June and again, CM was fantasic (We were checking in on DS's birthday and he went and did some special things for us). Never had a problem at any of the gift shops or even in the parks. Again, this is what we remember. We don't expect people to be happy at every moment and if they aren't, we certainly don't let it ruin a family vacation.

 

[WDWMom]

ricapito,

Sorry to hear about your long check in. If it really took you that long it is unexceptable.
Not sure how to acknowledge your bus problems.
Life guards, regardless of how many people are inthe pool, are not to talk to swimmers unless it is an emergency. This is well known. Life guards will tell you they get into trouble for making conversation. I would say this life guard takes he job seriously and does not want to lose it. You should teach your children not to bother life guards while on duty.
The sales rep should have tried to find out the path, but if they are not knowledgable about something that is really not required for their job, you should not hold it against them. Did they blow you off??? Did he try and not succeed???
The points/cash problem - Did you change your ressie to one or the other. If you did this at check in, you can not blame the front desk. You should have done this by phone before you got there. I am not sure, but MS and the front desks are not linked and managed together. The front desk is not MS so this is were your problem occured. If you did not change your ressie at check-in, than I can not imagine what happened.


With all this said, I think your original post was arrogant and you expect more than what the average person should receive. I do not think DVC members are entitled to anything more than any other person staying at WDW.

 

[laceemouse]

As far as people not checking out at the appropriate time, go ahead and charge them for the next day. Tell everyone that this will happen at the time they check in. Bet they wouldn't do that again. I really can see both sides of this post. We don't drive a Lexus, but the two notes on our Chevy's add up to a huge chunk of change for us. Do I expect service with a smile? Heck yes!!! I do expect a clean room, ect., but some people can really get rude and irrate when things don't go perfectly. Common courtesy goes both ways.

 

[tjkraz]

TJ point well taken but again the CM's are going to be the ones getting craped on for doing the enforcement of the rule. I mean if the guest knowingly does this you know darn well they will rip into a CM for removing hte belongings from the room. It won't be the CM that removed them either it will be whoever the poor CM is that gets the bags for them and that is part of the problem and no CM should be made to deal with that type of riddicule because of lousy guests members or not.

Whenever a CM has to take corrective action against a guest, frankly that's just part of the job. The resort has a responsibility to act in the interest of the greater good, even if that means getting an earful from a guest who acted inappropriately.

If the gang in the room next to you were playing loud music until 2am, should the front desk ignore your complaints to "keep the peace" with the troublesome guests?

If small children were seen tearing up landscaping while their parents giggled nearby, should a CM just let it happen?

The situations in which the resort would be appropriate in taking action against a guest would certainly be rare, but in the example you provided, it's entirely justified. Even moreso, if the guest refusing to check-out timely is going to inconvenience an arriving guest, the resort has an OBLIGATION to take action.