The VGF 2 pricing thread

[Sandisw]

All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.

I am not sure most buyers care about that when buying or that is going to be worth buying something for $7k more at a minimum, for a studio heavy resort that lasts 6 years left, and will cost more points to stay at.

Again, they want to sell and don’t care which resort it is. Not sure that they are going to phrase anything as a negative to pit one against the other.

As I shared, my current experience seems to indicate that as the goal. To sell each as a great choice.

I guess we will see soon!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I am not sure most buyers care about that when buying or that is going to be worth buying something for $7k more at a minimum, for a studio heavy resort that lasts 6 years left, and will cost more points to stay at.

Again, they want to sell and don’t care which resort it is. Not sure that they are going to phrase anything as a negative to pit one against the other.

As I shared, my current experience seems to indicate that as the goal. To sell each as a great choice.

I guess we will see soon!

Mentioning restrictions is not negative. It is the responsibility of the sales agent to act in a fiduciary manor by informing the potential buyer all the facts. It’s not a subjective matter.

 

[Nabas]

All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.

Depends on how they want to spin it.

They also could mention VGF2 is a 35 year old building while RIV is less than 3 years old.

Or they could mention the VGF2 rooms are larger.

Or they could mention that RIV has the fold down bed plus the Murphy bed under the tv.

Or they could mention VGF2 has 2 queen beds.

Or they could mention how much nicer the RIV bathrooms are.

Or they could…

My point is, VGF2 and RIV each have their pluses and minuses. What one person values could be different than what someone else values.

Personally, I don’t put much weight on the booking restrictions when buying direct from Disney. I suspect most direct buyers don’t plan to sell at the time of their purchase. They are just so excited about their purchase! Most (not all) are not particularly concerned about how resale restrictions will impact the price if and when they decide to sell many years from now.

There are always exceptions but I suspect most buy into DVC with no intention of selling. So resale restrictions simply don’t matter to the vast majority at the time of purchase.

 

[Royal Consort]

All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.

Don't know if the average buyer has the mentality of the Disboards. Whenever I was signing at the preview centre they were selling a few contracts to people who didn't appear to be asking many questions. Restrictions are a big thing here. As for a superior product, I think that is subjective. There's an argument to be made for more years and an increased option of room sizes vs a heavy studio focus. YMMV.

They're also not going to market one of their resorts as a poor option. Just ain't happening. Buyers will be informed of the restrictions after they have emotionally bought in when they are signing the paperwork. Guides will assess the consumer and sell either of these two great resorts accordingly. If the consumer is already wedded to VGF, then they will make this sound like a superior option for that customer.

When we were buying, they asked us our favourite park (MK) and we were escorted to a room with a MK wallpaper - bingo, great candidate for VGF. A customer prefers EP or HS? Boom, RVA.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Don't know if the average buyer has the mentality of the Disboards. Whenever I was signing at the preview centre they were selling a few contracts to people who didn't appear to be asking many questions. Restrictions are a big thing here. As for a superior product, I think that is subjective. There's an argument to be made for more years and an increased option of room sizes vs a heavy studio focus. YMMV.

They're also not going to market one of their resorts as a poor option. Just ain't happening. Buyers will be informed of the restrictions after they have emotionally bought in when they are signing the paperwork. Guides will assess the consumer and sell either of these two great resorts accordingly. If the consumer is already wedded to VGF, then they will make this sound like a superior option for that customer.

When we were buying, they asked us our favourite park (MK) and we were escorted to a room with a MK wallpaper - bingo, great candidate for VGF. A customer prefers EP or HS? Boom, RVA.

Omitting a fact such as restrictions is a violation and if it is not mentioned, at least in writing, there would be cause to file suit against the salesperson ( DVC agent and broker Disney). So, this is a material fact that must be presented prior to signing. Restrictions are not on par with the various wallpaper in the rooms. DVC agents have to do due diligence and present the fact. How it is perceived ( negative, etc) is subjective.

 

[Sandisw]

Mentioning restrictions is not negative. It is the responsibility of the sales agent to act in a fiduciary manor by informing the potential buyer all the facts. It’s not a subjective matter.

I was responding to your post where you said no restrictions made it a superior product and that a guide could use that to help justify a higher price.

In that respect, guides would then be forced to choose how to sell one over the other.

Similar pricing prevents that and as you say, they say one has X and the other has Y.

Of course, regardless of whether it’s mentioned, all owners are given a specific document that outlines it so they can’t buy RIV without being informed. That document must be signed as part of the purchase so you can’t buy RIV without knowing it is part of the contract.

It just makes little sense to me for DVD to have the point of view that they believe one resort is worth more than the other and any huge piece difference does that.

Like I said, how does a guide answer the new buyers question of “ What makes VGF worth so much more than RIV when you just said I can trade anywhere at 7 months?”

 

[Bjaiken77]

I was responding to your post where you said no restrictions made it a superior product and that a guide could use that to help justify a higher price.

In that respect, guides would then be forced to choose how to sell one over the other.

Similar pricing prevents that and as you say, they say one has X and the other has Y.

Of course, regardless if whether it’s mentioned, all owners are given a specific document that outlines it so they can’t buy RIV without being informed. That document must be signed as part of the purchase so you can’t buy RIV without knowing it is part of the contract.

It just makes little sense to me for DVD to have the point of view that they believe one resort is worth more than the other and any huge piece difference does that.

Like I said, how does a guide answer the new buyers question of “ What makes VGF worth so much more than RIV when you just said it can trade anywhere at 7 months?”

yeah, I don’t know if this is more of my own personal hope or if it’s Disney’s logic. If they are going to sell multiple properties at once, it would seem odd for one to be disproportionally out of line with the others. That is, of course, until they sell out. Then, anything is fair game.

I’ve been to Aulani, VGF, and RIV. To me, I can’t say any one resort is “better” than the others. It comes down to personal preference. I think all three are excellent.

 

[Brian Noble]

It is the responsibility of the sales agent to act in a fiduciary manor by informing the potential buyer all the facts

Omitting a fact such as restrictions is a violation and if it is not mentioned, at least in writing, there would be cause to file suit against the salesperson

There is a big difference between the sales patter---which may not cover RIV restrictions unless directly asked*---and the Big Pile of Paper that buyers initial stating that they have read and understood each one. Every sale will include the Big Pile of Paper, and the buyer will have to sign/initial. Usually, those initals are inscribed without the buyer actually reading them, let alone understanding them, but c'est la vie. And, for what it's worth the Big Pile of Paper might well now be distributed via docusign.

Also I'd be surprised if a sales agent has a fiduciary duty to the buyer, which is not the same thing as having a duty to disclose certain facts.

-------
*: I suppose the most likely reason it might come up is if the prospect mentions any awareness of the resale market.

 

[davidl81]

Omitting a fact such as restrictions is a violation and if it is not mentioned, at least in writing, there would be cause to file suit against the salesperson ( DVC agent and broker Disney). So, this is a material fact that must be presented prior to signing. Restrictions are not on par with the various wallpaper in the rooms. DVC agents have to do due diligence and present the fact. How it is perceived ( negative, etc) is subjective.

You 100% have to sign a document about the resale restrictions, and your guide has no obligation to talk about resale restrictions during their presentation. It makes all of the sense in the world that RIV and VGF2 are priced the same based on every other time Disney has offered a new resort it was priced in line with the current on sale resort, and the pitch that RIV is the Epcot lovers resort and VGF is the MK lovers resort.
Pricing VGF higher than RIV makes absolutely no logical sense and would be counter to anything DVC has done in the past.

 

[DVCsloth]

I did prefer VGF over Riviera, but now with the studio only VGF2 I would probably give the edge to Riviera over VGF.

 

[DVCsloth]

Still love my VGF though! Still get excited every time I book it and check in. Loved being able to book Riviera right at 7 months for an SV studio for 4 days and an SV 1BR for a week! Probably won't be able to do that very often in the future no that we are hopefully getting back to normal. Still get to book VGF and CCV at 11 months every year!

 

[SusieQ93]

I also think it’s so they can sell points from the start that new buyers can book in the short term and not wait for the new studios to open.

Current VGF points will be available for that use.

As a side note, I talked to one of the DVC people at RIV

Any big difference in price would make it much harder to sell because they just want to sell and want both products to be equally great.

Plus every resort has its pluses and VGF being superior to RIV is subjective.

That is not something a sales person is going to want to have to try and explain.

I really hope we see similar pricing.

I agree with you. Also haven’t been to Riviera but was looking at photos and I think it’s a truly beautiful resort and brand new. I don’t think they want to or should sell it as an inferior product.

 

[nuhusky123]

Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?

disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.

why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.

chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.

perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices

i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence

 

[SusieQ93]

Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?

disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.

why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.

chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.

perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices

i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence

I’ve definitely had some second thoughts. But ultimately think I want to buy in still. I’ve wanted DVC for a long time (not a current owner) and I think I will regret passing it up. If I change my mind in the future, I know I can sell or rent my points. Or even just take a year off and bank. I will always love Disney. There will always be ups and downs and changes, but I’ll keep going back. And I actually prefer Genie+ to free fast pass. I know the horror!

 

[Sandisw]

Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?

disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.

why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.

chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.

perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices

i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence

If price is close to RIV, we will still buy VGF. We won’t go resale because we want unrestricted points.

If we have to do tickets vs AP, we will adjust. If the price is near the sold out price? Then we will add on more RIV and hope to get rooms at VGF like we do now.

 

[BrianLo]

All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.

Riv also comes with no restrictions (when you buy from Disney). It's kind of meaningless in the sales pitch for a direct buyer, they aren't impacted.

It of course MAY effect resale price, but guides are hardly pushing this one might be worth more than that one 10 years from now. They make no promises and they aren't investments. Both could also be worth far less in 10 years than the market would dictate.

The genius on Disney's part is not that restrictions are bad for direct, they are bad for resale.

 

[New Mouse]

The genius on Disney's part is not that restrictions are bad for direct, they are bad for resale.

If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?

Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors. Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?

Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors. Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.

While I agree that the restrictions are bad for both resale and direct, unfortunately there are quite a few people dropping $30k without worrying about the restrictions in the future. The monthly sales data for direct RIV sales proves that.
What if the slack in RIV sales (compared to other resorts sales history when they were launched) was primarily due to the pandemic? If sales take off shortly after the pandemic eases will we still say restrictions are causing people to think twice?

 

[New Mouse]

While I agree that the restrictions are bad for both resale and direct, unfortunately there are quite a few people dropping $30k without worrying about the restrictions in the future. The monthly sales data for direct RIV sales proves that.
What if the slack in RIV sales (compared to other resorts sales history when they were launched) was primarily due to the pandemic? If sales take off shortly after the pandemic eases will we still say restrictions are causing people to think twice?

Yes because there is no metric to say where sales would have been if they didn't have restrictions. I was one sale they didn't get because of them. I'm sure there are many others.

 

[SusieQ93]

If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?

Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors. Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.

I do see what you’re saying, but there still is a resale market for Riviera. I see people talking about purchasing Riviera resale in other groups, so there is a market of resale buyer who don’t care about the restrictions and would be happy to just stay at Riviera.

Currently I see a few listing around $150pp. So about 75% of the purchase price. After fees, probably more like 70%. Once you hit your break even point, even if you only could sell your contract for 50% of the original purchase price, you’ve still vacationed at a deep discount for several years.

If you try to sell that Audi in 7 or 8 years, you’re going to get far less than what you paid for it. Just like cars aren’t an investment, I don’t think people should look at DVC as an investment - you potentially can make money by selling later, but I don’t think you should count on it. DVC to me, is prepaid vacationing with a guaranteed discount. I feel better purchasing knowing I do have an out if I absolutely have to sell. But I much better like the idea of going to Disney for years and years in the future and if I tire of going later in life I plan to give it to my son. I don’t plan to sell unless there is financial trouble and I’m forced to sell.