Should men be forced into fatherhood?

[chobie]

The same reason it should be real easy for the woman to wash her hands of it if she chooses that option.

But its not that easy. Do you have any idea what its like to have an abortion? Not exactly a walk in the park. It's painful, bloody and filled with possible medical complications, although still safer than a birth. Its not as easy as the male verison which would merely amount to signing your name to a peice of paper. Life is unfair. Why should that unfairness weigh more toward the person who does not have to deal with the physical consequences the person who does?

 

[chobie]

Sounds like a good argument to make abortion illegal.

Btw, I do not know why it is assumed that most men would do the dishonorable thing and walk away from the responsibility. Most men feel very strongly attached to their children too, no matter how they were conceived.

I do not know why its assumed that most unmarried women lie about being on the pill to trap men into being paying child support either, but it is.


And yes, I realize I run the risk of you calling in your friends to beat up on me for daring to disagree with you, but oh well.

 

[poohandwendy]

I do not know why its assumed that most unmarried women lie about being on the pill to trap men into being paying child support either, but it is.

I don't either. I never made that claim.

yes, I realize I run the risk of you calling in your friends to beat up on me for daring to disagree with you, but oh well.

For the record, I don't need to, nor have EVER called in anyone to agree or disagree with anyone, anywhere for any reason. I can stand on my own in any argument, thank you very much. And many of my 'friends' are here on this thread in total disagreement with me.

But, I am wondering why on earth you, without any provocation whatsoever, are making this personal?

 

[L107ANGEL]

I don't have an unwanted child, my wife and I have a daughter. I'm trying to look at it from an outside perspective. the more I look at it, the more unfair it seems to men.

Ok, Sly! Whatever you say!

 

[chobie]

I don't either. I never made that claim.


For the record I don't need to nor have EVER called in anyone to agree or disagree with anyone, anywhere for any reason. I can stand on my own in any argument, thank you very much. And many of my 'friends' are here on this thread in total disagreement with me.

But, I am wondering why on earth you, without any provocation whatsoever, are making this personal?

I did not say YOU said that. But many others on this thread have made the same baseless generalization about women that you are saying are being about men.

And you know that the last time I dared to disagree with you on a thread, your "friend" jumped all over me and you never once told him that you can fight your own battles. Which, by the way, I know you can and respect you for that.

 

[chobie]

Ok, Sly! Whatever you say!

You got his number all right.

 

[poohandwendy]

I did not say YOU said that. But many others on this thread have made the same baseless generalization about women that you are saying are being about men.

And you know that the last time I dared to disagree with you on a thread, your "friend" jumped all over me and you never once told him that you can fight your own battles. Which, by the way, I know you can and respect you for that.

For the first part, I know..I was agreeing amd clarifying.

As to the second part, my friends know that about me too. I don't feel the need to tell them that, whether or not they defend me. I just do not understand why the snarky remark, I did not instigate anything with you personally.

I suggest we just move on. The topic is interesting and I don't want to see it locked.

 

[L107ANGEL]

You got his number all right.

Thank you!! Can I give it back now??

 

[chobie]

For the first part, I know..I was agreeing.

As to the second part, my friends know that about me too. I don't feel the need to tell them that, whether or not they defend me. I just do not understand why the snarky remark, I did not instigate anything with you personally.

I suggest we just move on. The topic is interesting and I don't want to see it locked.

I agree and I have enjoyed disagreeing with you in the past because you can more than hold your own in debates. I just want to feel safe in doing that with out some fireman intervening. KWIM?

 

[chobie]

Thank you!! Can I give it back now??

Umm....NO!

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, I can't speak for anyone else. I would think you feel confident to hold your own no matter who says what here.

As to the issue, I am wondering if anyone thinks the argument earlier mentioned (of mens lack of the right to choose) could be potentially used against abortion rights? I mean, legally. Does anyone think that is a possibility?

 

[simpilotswife]

why can't the mother step up and take on the financial burden herself?

Exactly!! She wants the child she should be able to support it.

 

[simpilotswife]

The responsibility remains in the hand of the guy? What planet are you on? The woman has not only the financial burden, but also the daily care; at minimal for the next 18 years, for that child.

At times, this will mean the women will not graduate, or get to go on to college. She could be forced into a minimum wage job ASAP, especially if her family isn't willing to help.

But that is her choice. And what about the kid who now has to get a job and not graduate or wind up in a minimum wage job? Why should he be stuck with that life because of someone else's decision.

You want the man to be responsible because the woman has to be responsible. What you seem to be overlooking is that it is her choice to assume that responsibility. A man does not have any say in that choice at all.

A better solution I think would be for the father to decide who gets to raise the child. If he has to pay child support then he should be able to say who raises the child.....whaddya think?

And you advocate the man should have the luxury of just walking away? I don't think any court in this nation will see the situation thru those tinted shades you've got on. The courts are on the child's side. Thank the Lord someone is.

Who are you kidding? The courts in this country are on the side of the mother. How many abused children go back to their mothers? How many children live with their mother because the court sided with them?

 

[DisneyPhD]

Just curious, to those who keep saying 'it's as simple as wear a condom or be prepared to take care of a child, you knew the risks and made your bed, lie in it'...are you all anti-abortion?

Because that is an argument that could be used against the woman...'it's as simple as use birth control or be prepared to have a child...you knew the risks and made your bed, lie in it'

For me personally yes I am against abortion. Pro choice should be made before conception. (I have no personal problems with birth control though. )

I also think women should wise up and think about who they are sleeping with. Everyone one is potential "father" if B.C doesn't work (not 100% effective) My friend recenlty became pregant using 2 forms at once. I am so sick of women complaining about the good for nothing father of their baby! (especially when I was in social work.)

In instances where the father has no commitment, sperm dinners. A women wants a baby, doesn't have a father for it. Sperm is the only thing asked for from the mother. In all other cases, it took 2 to make the child, why shouldn't both be responible for it.

 

[SillyMe]

You got his number all right.

I think most of us do.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Ok how is this for a strange situation?

I know a man who has a child who is over 18 years old. He never found out this ever exsisted until the child was 18 years old. Then his ex. girlfriend started seeing him for back child support. They were in a relationship. She was pregnant when she broke up with him and kept if from him. (to the best of my knowledge this man was not abusive or a drug user.)

The EX. is now married to a lawyer who has connections with judges and the law suit is going though. He has major financial issues (and other issues frankly ) He can't seem to get dug out because any money he does make, is taken out of his account for back child support for a person who is no longer a child.

The whole story seems pretty fishy to me (this is a good friend of mines renter.) I think he needs a better lawyer and to counter sue for the loss of never getting the chance to know his child.

Still there is always something with issues like this.

Isn't the guy in the orginal story from MI? Somewhere near Flint? (about 45 min from where I live.)

 

[poohandwendy]

Wow, that is a horrible situation.

This is definitely a situation where I think the courts should find in favor of the man. Shouldn't a woman have a legal obligation to tell a man that he is to become a father, if she wants support from him? That is just twisted. And in a case like that, I imagine the issue of paternity would be raised. I mean, I would be wondering...18 years without a word?

 

[DVC Sadie]

Can I ask one question, should a woman who knowingly lies to a man and forces him to pay child support for another man's child be made to pay back to the man and get the child from the actual father? Also If the woman has a child and doesn't inform him for many years that the child exists should she be able to get back support for a child he doesn't know exists. In some cases a man will find out that he has a teenage child and expected to pay 13 years of back support for a child he wasn't aware of.

Heck Yes! Any women that lies and collects child support from a man who is not the father should not only have to pay the man all support collected but depending on the circumstances should also have to pay restitution.

 

[N.Bailey]

Just curious, to those who keep saying 'it's as simple as wear a condom or be prepared to take care of a child, you knew the risks and made your bed, lie in it'...are you all anti-abortion?

Because that is an argument that could be used against the woman...'it's as simple as use birth control or be prepared to have a child...you knew the risks and made your bed, lie in it'

I am pro life. In a few situations, I would accept an abortion as a solution (I know that's a double standard), but overall, I think the choice should boil down to adoption or raising the child for me personally. I don't presume to have, nor do I wish to have, any control over what someone else chooses.

I do hate to hear that some women seem to use abortion as a birth control method. They get no sympathy from me.

 

[N.Bailey]

It could also be said that a man is dealing with consequences when he gives up his parental rights. Not necessarily an easy choice either.

YAnd, the men have no choices. Both people have the exact same choices when having sex, but the women have ALL of the choices if pregnancy is a result. That is not equality in any way, shape or form.

IMO, when a man is able to carry the baby and take the consequences of having the baby (we all know our bodies are never quite the same again) etc.... I will hop on board the bandwagon to make it 100% equality.

Till that time however, I don't think it should be about what's best for the mom or the dad. It should be what's in the best interest of the child. I believe our laws support this notion as well.