Shooting holes in the "buy where you want to stay" argument.

[crisi]

Well, I'm feeling a little redemption based on my poll in the community board section. 75% of respondents for the time being have said they have never had a problem booking elsewhere at 7 months. Of those who remain 10% of them that had a problem were in Premier Season...so booking elsewhere if you are careful and think in advance isn't a huge problem as of yet.

Past performance is no guarentee of future returns.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Well, I'm feeling a little redemption based on my poll in the community board section. 75% of respondents for the time being have said they have never had a problem booking elsewhere at 7 months. Of those who remain 10% of them that had a problem were in Premier Season...so booking elsewhere if you are careful and think in advance isn't a huge problem as of yet.

Actually its only 4% having problem booking at premier season. almost 10% of your 75% had to be waitlisted before their reservation came through, which is something i surely would rather not do.

Also, as someone else pointed out in that poll, your poll might be flawed, due to the fact it does not include first choice denials.

also the membership is growing every day, the size of ssr will certainly have some effect on booking at all other resorts

lastly you have only 51 votes so far, which is not a very large number

 

[robinb]

Well, I'm feeling a little redemption based on my poll in the community board section. 75% of respondents for the time being have said they have never had a problem booking elsewhere at 7 months. Of those who remain 10% of them that had a problem were in Premier Season...so booking elsewhere if you are careful and think in advance isn't a huge problem as of yet.

I wouldn't pad yourself on the back too hard. You might hurt yourself .

As I said in the poll you just mentioned, you left out the most important bit of information: "first choice". Did someone eventually get a resort not their own at the 7 month mark? Certainly. OKW is usually wide open at the 7 month mark and often at the last minute. It's the last to fill up (for now, SSR will soon have that distinction, I think) but it is rarely people's "first choice" of a 7 month resort. The "Buy Where You Want To Stay" argument is all about someone's first choice in a resort, not if they can find a place to lay their head.

FWIW, I started a new poll of my own:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=736453

Enjoy .

 

[ricapito]

Actually its only 4% having problem booking at premier season. almost 10% of your 75% had to be waitlisted before their reservation came through, which is something i surely would rather not do.

Also, as someone else pointed out in that poll, your poll might be flawed, due to the fact it does not include first choice denials.

also the membership is growing every day, the size of ssr will certainly have some effect on booking at all other resorts

lastly you have only 51 votes so far, which is a very large number

The % changes constantly...thanks for splitting hairs though.

As for first choice rentals I agree it could sway the #'s. But should I also add a field for people who request BWV standard view on Christmas Eve? Or a poll field for how many people didn't get their requests becuase they needed a "2-bedroom, non-smoking, no lock off, room 2234 with a view of the left side of Mickey's tooth, that is 12 feet from SAB blah blah blah..." it cuts both ways...

Overall so far 75% of folks responding get what they want, yet some folks refuse to recognize that fact. What the poll will look like with 100 votes if it happens who knows. I'm not arguing this is scientific...

 

[robinb]

Overall so far 75% of folks responding get what they want, yet some folks refuse to recognize that fact.

Count me in. Your poll says that 75% of the people got a different resort other than their home resort, not necessarily the resort they wanted.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

The % changes constantly...thanks for splitting hairs though.

As for first choice rentals I agree it could sway the #'s. But should I also add a field for people who request BWV standard view on Christmas Eve? Or a poll field for how many people didn't get their requests becuase they needed a "2-bedroom, non-smoking, no lock off, room 2234 with a view of the left side of Mickey's tooth, that is 12 feet from SAB blah blah blah..." it cuts both ways...

Overall so far 75% of folks responding get what they want, yet some folks refuse to recognize that fact. What the poll will look like with 100 votes if it happens who knows. I'm not arguing this is scientific...

actually not splitting hairs, I checked right when you posted and sorry but you misread the poll.

yes 75% are getting what they want according to your flawed poll, but 75% are not getting their first choice

 

[Deep-Thots]

you guys crack me up, who ever said its exactly like a beach along the Maryland or NJ shore? Its a hotel in the middle of WDW with a beach/boardwalk "feel" or atmosphere to it. I dont think people are going to BCV to replace a beach vacation. they are going on vacation to WDW and would like the atmosphere of a beach/boardwalk type setting

I was not implying that I equated BCV/BWV with the NJ shore or that stays in said resorts could replace a beach vacation. (Frankly, BCV/BWV could never compare to the shore.) I was suggesting that the beach/boardwalk theme is one which, as a NJ resident, I have experienced time and time again, from infancy. It is precisely because of this experience that I choose, when I go to WDW, not to indulge in the beach/boardwalk-type setting. It *feels* like a matter of "been there, done that, definitely have the tee-shirt." That's all. Again, I can see how some people might enjoy that atmosphere. However, for me, it all just seems like a pale approximation at best and (donning flame-retardant suit) an overdone imitation at worst. Again, jmo. YMMV. In fact, YMPV!!

 

[jade1]

"I was not implying that I equated BCV/BWV with the NJ shore or that stays in said resorts could replace a beach vacation. (Frankly, BCV/BWV could never compare to the shore.) I was suggesting that the beach/boardwalk theme is one which, as a NJ resident, I have experienced time and time again, from infancy. It is precisely because of this experience that I choose, when I go to WDW, not to indulge in the beach/boardwalk-type setting. It *feels* like a matter of "been there, done that, definitely have the tee-shirt." That's all. Again, I can see how some people might enjoy that atmosphere. However, for me, it all just seems like a pale approximation at best and (donning flame-retardant suit) an overdone imitation at worst. Again, jmo. YMMV. In fact, YMPV!!"

It makes total sense you would avoid a theme you have in your back yard when you go to WDW. But you can actually say someone who wants to own BCV so they can get the beach type atmosphere (and dont have one in thier backyard like you) at 11 months out for spring break are making a mistake? The thread is if buying where you want to stay makes sense or not. I say it does for these reasons AND it is WDW-not Jersey. I dont think anyone said they want to go to BCV for the beach only-just that no other WDW DVC resort comes close to what it offers along those lines. You say a couple loads of sand on a bad lake is not a good reason. Are you actually saying the Jersey shore would be a better spring break destination than BCV (pale approximation at best)? What is the air and water temp the last week of March? Is there white sugar sand and palm trees? I'm pretty sure you cant walk to EPCOT in 5 minutes.

 

[jarestel]

Having stayed at all of the WDW DVC properties, I know that my home resort is the place I most want to stay. I didn't spend 20k - 30k to "settle" for whatever's available when I call for ressies. Bargain hunting wasn't my main motivation when buying, but for others it may be of prime importance. I would rather just pay for what I know I want and not gamble from year to year that my "bargain" suddenly turns into a nightmare when I can't get the accomodations I want.

 

[ricapito]

Having stayed at all of the WDW DVC properties, I know that my home resort is the place I most want to stay. I didn't spend 20k - 30k to "settle" for whatever's available when I call for ressies. Bargain hunting wasn't my main motivation when buying, but for others it may be of prime importance. I would rather just pay for what I know I want and not gamble from year to year that my "bargain" suddenly turns into a nightmare when I can't get the accomodations I want.

A lot of people though, like myself, like to stay different places from time to time depending on season, mood etc. I love my home resort of SSR but I plan on staying everywhere else at some point as well. I'm not advocating buying OKW/VB if you ONLY want to stay at VWL...but if you have a few choices on-site that work for you I still feel buying based on cost is a good idea for many people.

 

[Deep-Thots]

It makes total sense you would avoid a theme you have in your back yard when you go to WDW. But you can actually say someone who wants to own BCV so they can get the beach type atmosphere (and dont have one in thier backyard like you) at 11 months out for spring break are making a mistake?

Um. Please take the time to read my post. This is what I wrote: " Again, I can see how some people might enjoy that atmosphere..... "

Where did I ever write that the kind of person to whom I was referring, above, was making a mistake? I merely was stating very clearly that BCV and BWV are not where I want to stay and thus, where I did not buy. Even if I did want to stay at one of the beach-themed resorts all of the time, however, I think rcapito raises some interesting questions -- questions that might cause me to reassess the "buy where you want to stay" argument.

The thread is if buying where you want to stay makes sense or not. I say it does for these reasons AND it is WDW-not Jersey. I dont think anyone said they want to go to BCV for the beach only-just that no other WDW DVC resort comes close to what it offers along those lines. You say a couple loads of sand on a bad lake is not a good reason. Are you actually saying the Jersey shore would be a better spring break destination than BCV (pale approximation at best)? What is the air and water temp the last week of March? Is there white sugar sand and palm trees? I'm pretty sure you cant walk to EPCOT in 5 minutes.

Spring Break? What does Spring break have to do with all of this? You are creating a strawman argument here. What would you like to do next: have a discussion about which resort is best during the Christmas season?

In my initial post, I was merely commenting and extrapolating on the aside of another poster, who noted that BCV is not really as beach-like as some might wish it to be. Simple. End of story.

 

[crisi]

A lot of people though, like myself, like to stay different places from time to time depending on season, mood etc. I love my home resort of SSR but I plan on staying everywhere else at some point as well. I'm not advocating buying OKW/VB if you ONLY want to stay at VWL...but if you have a few choices on-site that work for you I still feel buying based on cost is a good idea for many people.

Sure, but that isn't the premise of your OP. If you don't mind staying at SSR or OKW or "anywhere - hey! its Disney" it really doesn't matter where your home resort is. Likewise, if you can only book on shorter notice, it doesn't make any difference.

The premise of your OP however is "why don't we buy cheap OKW points and stay at BCVs." Now, that may work. And it may work more often than not, even. But if what you REALLY want in WDW vacations every time is SAB - or even just REALLY want to make sure you get it for special times (guests visiting), then you are in jarestel's shoes - why risk a nightmare of not getting what you want to save money......as I said before, if you want to save money, there are some very nice offsite timeshares you can purchase for even less (and I hear people have been able to trade into DVC) - as well as lovely State and National Park Systems where you can pitch at tent for a few dollars a day.

We've all made the decision to make a committment to WDW - and a committment that doesn't make financial sense if all I want is a yearly Disney trip - offsite and value resorts are better deals. Now we are haggling over whether I should buy a cheaper, very nice, Audi instead of the BMW I really want - after all, I can drive the husband's BMW on occation.

(Disclaimer: We own two VWs)

 

[Shamus]

The % changes constantly...thanks for splitting hairs though.

As for first choice rentals I agree it could sway the #'s. But should I also add a field for people who request BWV standard view on Christmas Eve? Or a poll field for how many people didn't get their requests becuase they needed a "2-bedroom, non-smoking, no lock off, room 2234 with a view of the left side of Mickey's tooth, that is 12 feet from SAB blah blah blah..." it cuts both ways...

Overall so far 75% of folks responding get what they want, yet some folks refuse to recognize that fact. What the poll will look like with 100 votes if it happens who knows. I'm not arguing this is scientific...

(Ricapito Please do not take the following as a personal attack on you. I offer it only in the Spirit of discussion for which this thread was intended, and what to thank you for raising the issue.)

As Robin Pointed out ....75% Got a room ... not necessarily what they wanted.

"By where you plan to stay the most" is considered to be a very important piece of advice by many here of the DIS. It is simply meant as a warning to future purchasers that the best chance you have of securing your wants is to have the ability to book it at the 11 month window.

If you don't want to go to HH during the summer every year or two, then this advice may mean nothing to you. If you don't need to book GVs often, then this advice may mean nothing to you. If you are the type of traveler that does not care where, when or what room type they stay in, as long as it is a Disney resort, then obviously this advice means NOTHING to you.

This whole thread has been filled with people trying to explain to you that although you raise many interesting points.. your financial argument is relatively flawed. That Your Poll and the conclusion you draw from it are flawed. Despite this I feel you continue to misunderstand exactly what "Buy Where You Plan to Stay the Most" is all about

There are many aspects to making a purchase decision and yet "Buy where you plan to stay the most" is the #1 piece of advice stressed here on the DIS boards. WHY?? Is it the "Most Important"??? l......Maybe not.

Is it the "Most Important" piece of advice that was likely not thought about by the purchaser themselves and Highly Unlikely to have been suggested by their DVC Sales Rep ????? ..........

I think even you know the answer to that question.

I think your theory that "base cost" is more important then "First Choice" is the only thing that has been shot full of holes here.


Shamus

 

[Deep-Thots]

Now we are haggling over whether I should buy a cheaper, very nice, Audi instead of the BMW I really want - after all, I can drive the husband's BMW on occation.

(Disclaimer: We own two VWs)

Having car-shopped recently, I can tell you that Audis and BMWs are very similarly priced when they are similarly equipped (engine size, options, etc.). In fact, at times, the Audi may be a bit pricier!

(Disclaimer: We own a BMW. And a Ford Focus. They both rock!!)

 

[ricapito]

(Ricapito Please do not take the following as a personal attack on you. I offer it only in the Spirit of discussion for which this thread was intended, and what to thank you for raising the issue.)

As Robin Pointed out ....75% Got a room ... not necessarily what they wanted.

"By where you plan to stay the most" is considered to be a very important piece of advice by many here of the DIS. It is simply meant as a warning to future purchasers that the best chance you have of securing your wants is to have the ability to book it at the 11 month window.

If you don't want to go to HH during the summer every year or two, then this advice may mean nothing to you. If you don't need to book GVs often, then this advice may mean nothing to you. If you are the type of traveler that does not care where, when or what room type they stay in, as long as it is a Disney resort, then obviously this advice means NOTHING to you.

This whole thread has been filled with people trying to explain to you that although you raise many interesting points.. your financial argument is relatively flawed. That Your Poll and the conclusion you draw from it are flawed. Despite this I feel you continue to misunderstand exactly what "Buy Where You Plan to Stay the Most" is all about

There are many aspects to making a purchase decision and yet "Buy where you plan to stay the most" is the #1 piece of advice stressed here on the DIS boards. WHY?? Is it the "Most Important"??? l......Maybe not.

Is it the "Most Important" piece of advice that was likely not thought about by the purchaser themselves and Highly Unlikely to have been suggested by their DVC Sales Rep ????? ..........

I think even you know the answer to that question.

I think your theory that "base cost" is more important then "First Choice" is the only thing that has been shot full of holes here.


Shamus

Shamus, take you personally? Surely you jest or have an over-inflated sense of righteousness or are totally blind. As of now 65%+ in the "first choice" poll got what they wanted at 7 months. My "flawed poll" is near 80% with people getting what they want at 7 months. I've received a lot of private emails from people saying they own VB/HH/OKW and always get where they want but are afraid to post here so they won't be ostricized. While owning VB for 37 years might not make sense because of dues issues, owning OKW and being flexible to a small extent is still very well supported by the financial and anecdotal analysis herein...even owning VB makes sense if you plan on owning for 10 years or less...

 

[jade1]

"Spring Break? What does Spring break have to do with all of this?"

Just the point that some of us may be pushing the cost per point of BCV up because we have specific reason's for BUYING WHERE WE WANT TO STAY and gaining a reservation advantage to fullfill these reasons.


"What would you like to do next: have a discussion about which resort is best during the Christmas season?"

And YES I own VWL for Christmas also.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Shamus, take you personally? Surely you jest or have an over-inflated sense of righteousness or are totally blind. As of now 65%+ in the "first choice" poll got what they wanted at 7 months. My "flawed poll" is near 80% with people getting what they want at 7 months. I've received a lot of private emails from people saying they own VB/HH/OKW and always get where they want but are afraid to post here so they won't be ostricized. While owning VB for 37 years might not make sense because of dues issues, owning OKW and being flexible to a small extent is still very well supported by the financial and anecdotal analysis herein...even owning VB makes sense if you plan on owning for 10 years or less...

so I guess the 32% or so that didnt get their first choice dont matter, I guess you wont mind telling them oooppps sorry made a mistake when they buy in to dvc at okw or vb and really want bw or bc.

i guess the 15% who had to waitlist dont matter much either, hey buy in and wait around maybe your vacation will happen maybe it wont.

sorry id rather not be one of that 47% if I dont have to be.

 

[ricapito]

so I guess the 32% or so that didnt get their first choice dont matter, I guess you wont mind telling them oooppps sorry made a mistake when they buy in to dvc at okw or vb and really want bw or bc.

i guess the 15% who had to waitlist dont matter much either, hey buy in and wait around maybe your vacation will happen maybe it wont.

sorry id rather not be one of that 47% if I dont have to be.

another person missing the premise. we're talking about people in the first place who don't have the extra $3500 (eg OKW v BCV up front, that savings GROWS when you add dues back in!) to spend or look at DVC as a way to save $$$. the point is "buy where you want to stay" is more complicated than that simple statement and to a good portion of people may not be good advice. if money is no issue blow it all on BCV, who cares. for many people $3500 is real money and a little flexibility is well worth that! your advice is great when money isnt an issue...and/if you are inflexible in where you want to stay.

 

[Dean]

Well, I'm feeling a little redemption based on my poll in the community board section. 75% of respondents for the time being have said they have never had a problem booking elsewhere at 7 months. Of those who remain 10% of them that had a problem were in Premier Season...so booking elsewhere if you are careful and think in advance isn't a huge problem as of yet.

I agree the poll isn't written to give the true answers. Plus this is a better informed group than the masses making their chances far better. And if 20% or so are having problems now, it will get worse for BWV, BCV and VWL as the membership grows. But I do agree, and have stated many times, that one's personal restrictions and use plans should dictate the best choices for that problem. But if you think it's such a good deal, buy lots of VB points, just in time for the increases in fees. Currently though, DVC itself is actually responsible for anything over the dues collected, it's part of their agreement to NOT pay dues on the points they own.

 

[ricapito]

I agree the poll isn't written to give the true answers. Plus this is a better informed group than the masses making their chances far better. And if 20% or so are having problems now, it will get worse for BWV, BCV and VWL as the membership grows. But I do agree, and have stated many times, that one's personal restrictions and use plans should dictate the best choices for that problem. But if you think it's such a good deal, buy lots of VB points, just in time for the increases in fees. Currently though, DVC itself is actually responsible for anything over the dues collected, it's part of their agreement to NOT pay dues on the points they own.

Actually I used both VB and OKW as examples in my original post. I think VB has been rebutted quite well over the dues issue. But OKW still looks real good to me and I may add some OKW points actually...