Shooting holes in the "buy where you want to stay" argument.

[dougmatt]

We'd all do "better finacially" long term to bank the money we spend on our Disney habit instead of going at all.

Excellent point... Often made.

On the "availability note" when BCV opened we thought... MAN we gotta own there too (already own'd other 4 resorts) since we REALLY like SAB... Decided against buying (though I wish I had them to sell now! ) as we hadn't really had too much trouble in the past booking where we wanted to stay at WDW at 7 months... Since then we have stayed at BCV twice, and never been locked out... We almost always travel peak times (by DVC def's).. My personal opinions is DVC "Peak" times aren't really the high point ones, but rather the low point weeks. The times I haven't been able to find reservations short term / 7 month have always been January, Sept, and November at WDW for non-flexible date, short stays. I have also been locked out spring and summer at VB, and Summer at HH. Both times I asked for BCV during summer I got it (1x5days, 1x12 days both studio's)...

I still counsel "buy where you want to stay", but before that I would counsel "BCV is NOT a good buy right now"... If you are a BCV owner, don't be offended! Rather be happy! You actually have an investment property if you want to sell! I think the price will equal out before it's all said and done..

 

[ricapito]

For anyone still following this thread I posted a poll in the community section regarding booking success at the 7 month window....

 

[Par8hed]

I love the beach and the whole seaside feel.

Not attempting to trash BCV here; I think it's a great property. But a few truckloads of sand dumped alongside a lake where you are not permitted ( nor would you likely want to ) swim does NOT qualify as a beach!

 

[kathleena]

Not attempting to trash BCV here; I think it's a great property. But a few truckloads of sand dumped alongside a lake where you are not permitted ( nor would you likely want to ) swim does NOT qualify as a beach!

According to Merriam-Webster, yes it does! Swimmability not a requirement to be a beach.

Main Entry: 1beach
Pronunciation: 'bEch
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
1 : shore pebbles : SHINGLE
2 a : a shore of a body of water covered by sand, gravel, or larger rock fragments b : a seashore area

 

[Par8hed]

According to Merriam-Webster, yes it does! Swimmability not a requirement to be a beach.

2 a : a shore of a body of water covered by sand, gravel, or larger rock fragments b : a seashore area

If we're taking Merriam-Webster so literally then I suppose some puddles or even a cesspool could technically qualify as well!
But I think you understood my original point.

 

[jade1]

We often spend spring break weekend at Clearwater and the week at BCV. We NEVER swim in the ocean at Clearwater-we hate the salt (of course we have all summer in Minnesota to swim in fresh water) so we only SWIM in the pools and spend the day at the beach-thats why they have the outdoor sprayer/shower deal to get the sand off so you can swim in the pool. We do the same thing at BCV-lounge on the "BEACH", watch the boats and the Boardwalk view and swim in SAB.

 

[NMW]

Not attempting to trash BCV here; I think it's a great property. But a few truckloads of sand dumped alongside a lake where you are not permitted ( nor would you likely want to ) swim does NOT qualify as a beach!

I agree. Anyone who grew up spending summer vacations at the beaches in Maryland, New Jersey, etc. is not going to feel like that lake is a beach. It's very pretty, but not a "beach"!

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

I've been reading this thread with interest.
I know most of you USE your DVC points, but using the cost analysis on page 3, it seems that when taking the standard rental rate of $10.00 per point that all of the DVC resorts would provide an excellent return of investment.
Using OKW at $73 and adding maintenance for ...@ $5.86 , renting that point at $10 would be a yearly (for 2005) rate of return of 70%....or am I being math dyslexic?
Now I realize that supply and demand and maintenance all change...but I think the rental per point is fairly solid so...is my reasoning also solid that if I only bought DVC as an investment vehicle that I could make 70% or so per year in money back by renting all my points and then if there was a year when renting wasn't , for some reason, an option...I'd get a VACATION at my favorite place on earth.

This seems like such a good deal that unless someone bursts my bubble I am going to put an offer in tomorrow. (actually I think this investment is so good I might have to wait until I can set up a Nevada Corporation (15% tax or less)

So....financial gurus, please comment.

Colorado Belle

 

[bburn]

Let's try it this way:

Option 1: $7300 deposited in a cd at 5% interest per year.
Approximate income of $365 per year

Option 2: Buy 100 OKW points at $73 ea = $7300
Rent points for $10 each. Subtract maintenance fee $3.86
So a net of $6.14 per point or $614.00 total. Seems to me a possible return of 8.5% or so.

Does this seem right or am I missing someting?

 

[Deep-Thots]

I agree. Anyone who grew up spending summer vacations at the beaches in Maryland, New Jersey, etc. is not going to feel like that lake is a beach. It's very pretty, but not a "beach"!

I agree with NMW and Par8hed. Being from NJ and having spent summers at "the shore," BCV has very little appeal to me. I have similar feelings about BWV (though I'll be staying there in a few weeks because my DNiece, 8, will certainly enjoy it). And what I find really unappealing about those resorts is the bus transpo to MK, AK, and DTD: Lots of the time, there are just too many people squished on one bus!! That's what led us to look at both OKW and SSR, but ultimately decide on SSR (love DTD and Spas!!).

Having said that, though, I definitely see how BWV and BCV could have major appeal for people who (for a variety of reasons) can't get/haven't gotten enough of the beach/boardwalk experience.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

bburn...yes of course you are right...I also have to figure in what the cash could be earning elsewhere...duh me!

I have a strange sitch re cash with regard to a divorce that still is in the air settlement wise...so that cash is, in my case, just sitting.

Thanks for the math help!!! I just told my 'resale Realtor' that I might go up to 200 points instead of the 100 or less I was looking at.

colorado belle

 

[rinkwide]

...am I missing someting?

Yep, compound interest.

 

[Shamus]

......am I missing someting?

And straight line depreciation of your original $7300 purchase will cut another $200 a year out of your profits. Hmm --- now we only have a 5.5% return.

Of course any appreciated value could be yours if the market is up when (if) you sell. But that is adding additional risk to the equation (you already have the risk of renting vs. "guaranteed" cd return). And then there is the return on reinvesting your profits .... then there are the tax implications ... then ......


Shamus

 

[crisi]

Plus the work, renters who back out and don't pay, leaving you with distressed points. The pms and emails from people telling sob stories wanting your $10 points for $6. The slight risk that DVC may itself crack down on people using the property for "commercial purposes" and decide that includes people who only rent points or rent the majority of them.

 

[MrShiny]

Annual dues for 2005 per POINT
at each resort are as follows:


Saratoga Springs $3.82
Old Key West $3.86
Hilton Head Island $4.03
Beach Club Villas $4.26
Wilderness Lodge $4.35
Boardwalk Villas $4.41
Vero Beach $4.86

Although, if you are holding the points until the end of the contract, then SSR becomes more expensive (as the contract lasts longer). So here is the total cost per point (assuming any increase in dues is no more than inflation):

OKW $143
HHI $149
BCV $158
VWL $161
BWV $163
VB $180
SSR $187

 

[MrShiny]

Let's try it this way:

Option 1: $7300 deposited in a cd at 5% interest per year.
Approximate income of $365 per year

Option 2: Buy 100 OKW points at $73 ea = $7300
Rent points for $10 each. Subtract maintenance fee $3.86
So a net of $6.14 per point or $614.00 total. Seems to me a possible return of 8.5% or so.

Does this seem right or am I missing someting?

That's right, and the premium represents the additional risk. You can be pretty sure the bank will pay that $365, but you can't be sure you'll be able to rent for $10 or at all. While resort rates are increasing, so too are the number of DVC points. Also, indivdual renters may not be as responsible as banks, so there is risk there.

As mentioned before the biggest thing is in 2042, you could take your original $7300 out of the bank. Your OKW investment however is spent.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

you guys crack me up, who ever said its exactly like a beach along the Maryland or NJ shore? Its a hotel in the middle of WDW with a beach/boardwalk "feel" or atmosphere to it. I dont think people are going to BCV to replace a beach vacation. they are going on vacation to WDW and would like the atmosphere of a beach/boardwalk type setting

 

[jade1]

" you guys crack me up, who ever said its exactly like a beach along the Maryland or NJ shore? Its a hotel in the middle of WDW with a beach/boardwalk "feel" or atmosphere to it. I dont think people are going to BCV to replace a beach vacation. they are going on vacation to WDW and would the atmosphere of a beach/boardwalk type setting"

Exactly, but I am curious, every monitor in Minnesota has a beach screensaver this time of year and I dont think any are of Maryland or NJ? Since the argument was swimming etc I also assume white sugar sand and palm trees, is that what you have in NJ and Maryland including year round warm swimming water? Never been there but maybe we should reconsider Cozumel next month.

 

[ricapito]

Well, I'm feeling a little redemption based on my poll in the community board section. 75% of respondents for the time being have said they have never had a problem booking elsewhere at 7 months. Of those who remain 10% of them that had a problem were in Premier Season...so booking elsewhere if you are careful and think in advance isn't a huge problem as of yet.

 

[crisi]

LOL jade1....

From Minnesota as well. Been to plenty of beaches (White Bear Lake, Gull Lake, Lake Minnetonka -- plus the smaller lakes - my parents live on a little one near White Bear) that remind me a lot of the beach at BCVs - of course, no palm trees either in New Jersey or Brainerd. And swimming is optional when the lake is pea green because the wind is coming from the wrong direction.