Saying grace...

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No one says that. Why would someone say that? Is it because they expect you to break in at dinner with your grace request?

George did clarify later that yes--he expects his guests to do that...so in anticipation he wanted to nip it in the bud:

I thought I'd ask this since the holiday season is upon us and a lot of people tend to get religious for their two or three times a year.

I'm not a religious person... at all. When we are at dinner at other peoples' houses or functions and they choose to say grace I usually take the opportunity to politely excuse myself and go wash my hands or something while they get grace out of the way. I just don't do it, but that's me. When dinner is at my house, I prefer that grace not be said and some people respect that. They can always pause for the thought for themselves without making a big deal about it.

However, there is always someone who insists of doing a formal grace, even if it's not their home and they are offended when I object to it in my home. My attitude is that if they must pray, they should take it outside... all the way home if they want.

I was wondering how others in my situation handle this. I expect to be dealing with it Thursday. Oh, and I'm not the kind of guy to keep my mouth shut when something bothers me.

For those of you who know I play in a church band and are confused, that's strictly business for me. They accept that I don't join hands and pray with them, as they do every time we rehearse or play.

He did clarify later--but I answered his response generally speaking. He has problems with his particular guests and in that instance he should probably speak up as they are more into converting him than they are in actually thanking God for the food...if that makes any sense.

 

[aprilgail2]

this leads me to a question. dh and i always have a fight over this. when we are someplace where grace is being said (or in a church service for a wedding or something) dh is always elbowing me or saying something afterwards like "you need to close your eyes and bow your head". basically he wants me to pretend i am praying. he thinks it is rude not to look like everyone else because it is a distraction and he feels that other people will think i am purposefully trying to be rude about it. i don't say anything and i never try to create a disturbance. but generally i am the only one who does not bow my gead, close my eyes, or say amen. what do people think - is it rude to just sit there quietly and not look the same way everyone else does???

I do not bow my head either or close my eyes, I sort of just zone out and sing loudly in my head to crown out the praying. I am glad they don't do the hand holding hting because that would totally creep me out.
Plus how would they KNOW that you didn't close your eyes or bow your head if they have theirheads bowed and eyes closed????

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I do not bow my head either or close my eyes, I sort of just zone out and sing loudly in my head to crown out the praying. I am glad they don't do the hand holding hting because that would totally creep me out.
Plus how would they KNOW that you didn't close your eyes or bow your head if they have theirheads bowed and eyes closed????

I sometimes sneak peeks during prayers.

You'd be amazed at the number of people peeking or playing with their fingers. Especially if they are an auto-prayer.

My attention span is short--so when they keep going..my eyes start wandering.

And I have no problem with prayers but I still do that.

 

[goofygirl]

I find it funny that some are offended at being told, "God Bless You."

By the way, saying "God Bless You" isn't necessarily Christian. "God" is a generic term- it can mean Jesus, Jehovah, Buddha, Allah, an energy force, whatever.

So if you sneeze, would you rather they say nothing? or "You're sooo good looking!" like they did on Seinfeld?

 

[caitycaity]

I find it funny that some are offended at being told, "God Bless You."

By the way, saying "God Bless You" isn't necessarily Christian. "God" is a generic term- it can mean Jesus, Jehovah, Buddha, Allah, an energy force, whatever.

So if you sneeze, would you rather they say nothing? or "You're sooo good looking!" like they did on Seinfeld?

no, actually i just say bless you.

i am not offended when people say god bless you, but i will never understand why people don't get that SOME PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY GOD and therefore the mention of ANY GOD may be offensive to those people.

 

[JennyMominRI]

no, actually i just say bless you.

i am not offended when people say god bless you, but i will never understand why people don't get that SOME PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY GOD and therefore the mention of ANY GOD may be offensive to those people.

Along the same lines,my G-d is not Jesus,and I dont want to be involved in any prayer to him . That said,if Im there while someone else prays I will just sit quietly and not participate.

 

[chobie]

I'll state it again--if I go to someone's house HARMLESSLY and all is going fine and this sudden announcement is made: Prayer is unacceptable in this home--if you do it, I will ask you to leave...

Then it would be the hosts problem not my. AT that moment--they have broken the rules of etiquette. They have made their guests uncomfortable by making a butt out of themselves.

I wouldn't all of a sudden announce at a hosted dinner--"We are Catholic, therefor you MUST do the sign of the cross before I will allow you to eat."

The Etiquette Boat floats both ways. A guess should NEVER dictate what their host should or should not do (i.e. announce "I always do a meal blessing and we cannot eat until we do") but a host should NEVER be so rude as to tell someoen that they cannot do a meal blessing personally. And neither host nor guest should ever put the other on the spot.

Those with manners on both sides would understand that and the difference between what is appropriate and what is not.

I agree with you that what the OP is suggesting is rude. But its also rude for people to insist on saying a prayer before dinner when they have invited guests over that they know are not religious -- and that happens all the time, but I think we non believers are usually more polite in this regard, I know I am.

And I think the praying in public is pretenious. JMHO.

 

[Cool-Beans]

no, actually i just say bless you.

i am not offended when people say god bless you, but i will never understand why people don't get that SOME PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY GOD and therefore the mention of ANY GOD may be offensive to those people.

Not believing and being offended by religion are two different things. It isn't a "therefore" kind of thing. My husband does NOT believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, etc. He thinks religion is a scam to get money.

But he isn't offended by the mention of God. Before we eat as a family, we pray...he just sits there. He used to yell at the kids to get ready for church, dragging them out from under the bed to get dressed...but he didn't go. He attends religious functions and pays for religious schooling, but if the kids asked him flat-out if he believes in God, he says, "No."

Basically, he thinks I'm foolish and I think he's a heathen. But he respects my faith and I respect his heathenism.

So, to sum up, not everyone who has no faith gets all bent out of shape by religion. They don't all find it offensive.

If you find it all that offensive, then when people invite you to dinner, just ask them if they say grace. Then explain that you have a serious aversion to all things religious and must decline on that basis. No big whup. I wouldn't hold it against you...I don't think most people would. Just something you feel strongly about, that's all.

 

[caitycaity]

Not believing and being offended by religion are two different things. It isn't a "therefore" kind of thing. My husband does NOT believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, etc. He thinks religion is a scam to get money.

But he isn't offended by the mention of God.

did i say they were the same thing??? nope. i actually pointed out that while i am an atheist that kind of thing does not offend me either. what i said was: "and therefore the mention of ANY GOD may be offensive to those people"

 

[SwedishMeatball]

There will always be people that are offended by something, but the world keeps turning. In regards to religion, there are extremists on both ends. Most reasonable people will try to be respectful and understand that there are differences. In the context of this thread and referencing a specific holiday, I don't think it's such a bad thing for people to express what they are thankful for when gathered with people that they love. If someone at the table wants to wish for George's grandson (I don't know if he's active duty) to be kept safe from harms way, would he really rather be off washing his hands?? Perhaps, but I don't think he really believes that they would be meaning to offend him personally.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I think George should cause a scene.

Last Easter my brother announced that he no longer believe in Christ (as savior) or Catholicism, etc. Said there *might* be a God, but he's not buying the rest. And he picked flippin EASTER dinner to announce it. Went on to announce (blasphemously) that he's now worshipping at the altar of the Ham Sandwich and will Honor The Pig.

George, cause all the fuss you want. Get up from the table, announce your non-beliefs, make fun of the faithful...go for it. If my family has to put up with it, why should yours be spared?

 

[auntpolly]

And there you go, it is us non-beleivers making the concessions most of the time and yet you don't here us crying about being persecuted for having to hide our non-faith.

Don't Christians think its rude to put their non-believing friends in the uncomfortable situation of being an outsider while they say their prayers? Will God feel slighted if the thanks for the meal is done silently, without the head bowing, hand holding performance?

.

You have to hide your nonfaith? Tell us about that. Do you not tell people? Do you tell your kids not to mention it? How do you hide it?

Here's what I think. People get too offended about everything,even taking their shoes off or not taking their shoes of in someone's house!

This discussion is making me actually care less about worrying whether my faith offends them. People are so touchy, it's obviously impossible to please anyone. I might as well just do as I like.

 

[chobie]

You have to hide your nonfaith? Tell us about that. Do you not tell people? Do you tell your kids not to mention it? How do you hide it?

Here's what I think. People get too offended about everything,even taking their shoes off or not taking their shoes of in someone's house!

This discussion is making me actually care less about worrying whether my faith offends them. People are so touchy, it's obviously impossible to please anyone. I might as well just do as I like.

It doesn't offend me, but I do think its rude when my Christian friends insisted on saying grace both at their house and mine when they know my family is not. I also thought what the OP was suggesting was rude.

Why does it freak you out so much that I think its just as rude to insits on making a big producation out of saying grace when you choose to have dinner with people you know are not Christians?

I don't hide actively hide my non faith, but when people would assume we were Christians we would rarely correct them because we did not want to be "witnessed".

Go ahead, make a big show of what a Christian you are by praying in public. It won't offend me, I'll just think you're "protesting too much."

 

[SwedishMeatball]

It doesn't offend me, but I do think its rude when my Christian friends insisted on saying grace both at their house and mine when they know my family is not. I also thought what the OP was suggesting was rude.

Why does it freak you out so much that I think its just as rude to insits on making a big producation out of saying grace when you choose to have dinner with people you know are not Christians?

I don't hide actively hide my non faith, but when people would assume we were Christians we would rarely correct them because we did not want to be "witnessed".

Go ahead, make a big show of what a Christian you are by praying in public. It won't offend me, I'll just think you're "protesting too much."

Why is it rude for your Christian friends to say grace at their own homes?? Do you really think they are trying to make a "big production" for your benefit??

 

[caitycaity]

You have to hide your nonfaith? Tell us about that. Do you not tell people? Do you tell your kids not to mention it? How do you hide it?

actually, irl i do hide my non-faith because the few times i have shared it with even relatively good friends i could tell that they looked at me differently. most people i work with/am friends with are religious.

irl, i would never lie if asked directly, but i let people assume i am religious all the time. i am not open about my atheism like i am here on the dis (one of the main reasons i like the dis). heck, i don't think my own family knows i am atheist, they just think i am not particularly religious. certainly some members of my extended family do not know. if they did they would probably never invite me over again.

i hardly ever use the "a word" irl eventhough that is definitely what i am. in my experience it really turns people off.

 

[chobie]

Why is it rude for your Christian friends to say grace at their own homes?? Do you really think they are trying to make a "big production" for your benefit??

When one is hosting guests the aim is to make them feel as comfortable as possible. Having a big, hand-holding, head bowing, verbal prayer is bound to make non Christians feel uncomfortable. It wasn't a big enough deal to make me not want to be friends with them, but yes I do think its inhospitable.

The big production I was referring to is when people do it in public places. Yes, they should be able to do it, and yes I think they are trying to show off their piety more than anything else.

The more people say things like "I'm going to prayer in public and I don't care who it offends", or "I'm going say Merry Christmas and I don't care who it offends" really makes it seem like those things are done out of spite and not out love for God. JMO.

 

[JennyMominRI]

When one is hosting guests the aim is to make them feel as comfortable as possible. Having a big, hand-holding, head bowing, verbal prayer is bound to make non Christians feel uncomfortable. It wasn't a big enough deal to make me not want to be friends with them, but yes I do think its inhospitable.

.

Just ignore that Shabbat invitation I sent you, OK

 

[SwedishMeatball]

When one is hosting guests the aim is to make them feel as comfortable as possible. Having a big, hand-holding, head bowing, verbal prayer is bound to make non Christians feel uncomfortable. It wasn't a big enough deal to make me not want to be friends with them, but yes I do think its inhospitable.

The big production I was referring to is when people do it in public places. Yes, they should be able to do it, and yes I think they are trying to show off their piety more than anything else.

The more people say things like "I'm going to prayer in public and I don't care who it offends", or "I'm going say Merry Christmas and I don't care who it offends" really makes it seem like those things are done out of spite and not out love for God. JMO.

That may be the case for some, but I really think that is a small minority. The other perspective of that might be that there are people who just really want the freedom to express themselves. Somewhere along the way it seems to have become a fine line between what is acceptable in Americans expressing themselves, and being able to do so without somehow offending someone else.

 

[chobie]

Just ignore that Shabbat invitation I sent you, OK

If you invited someone for a religious celebration, they should expect some religion, no?

 

[JennyMominRI]

If you invited someone for a religious celebration, they should expect some religioun, no?

I like to trick them with promises of beer and playstation 3. Once they are here,they are all mine




I'm just in a very silly mood tonight,dont mind me