Riviera Resale Values

[Lee Matthews]

My only fear with Riviera Resale is that as it gets nearer to selling out, it’s going to be totally booked out at 11 months. Nobody will probably be able to book at 7 from other resorts.

will even 11 months eventually be a rush to book studios

 

[TheEpcotForEver]

I too have been less active on the site but wondered the same.

I suspect the hardcore Never Riviera's would say that there still are not enough resale data points and that the market, in general, is just crazy now and their dire predictions will come true some day.

Riviera resale contracts are still pretty rare, so yea I think we are still a long ways away from seeing where the price settles in relation to other resorts that already have an actively traded resale market

 

[Akck]

Does Disney disclose in large print the resale restrictions or is it buried in the legal documents? In other words if you are on vacation, go take a tour of RIV not really knowing anything (or much) about DVC would you be informed about the resale restriction during the process of purchasing? Or would you just be told that your purchase entitles YOU to book at RIV plus the legacy properties? Sorry if this has already been asked and answered before!

There's no way they are telling anyone about it.

They don't want you to know that these things can be resold or that a resale market even exists.

When we bought in October 2019, they explicitly pointed out the restrictions to us while we were signing. There may have even been a specific document we signed acknowledging them. The first CM we spoke to at a kiosk pointed out resale to assure us that DVC holds its value. When we added on in September 2020, I think the guide mentioned the restrictions. So they aren’t hiding them.

 

[Akck]

My only fear with Riviera Resale is that as it gets nearer to selling out, it’s going to be totally booked out at 11 months. Nobody will probably be able to book at 7 from other resorts.

will even 11 months eventually be a rush to book studios

That’s pretty much the case now. Availability dries up before the 7th month window. You might see some pop up as direct members switch out at 7 months.

 

[Lee Matthews]

Yeah then that is going to very quite problematic years down the line when they sell out.

 

[Sandisw]

I went from "I could pick up a resale contract at ~$100/pp to use for RIV only stays, if I see availability issues at 7mo" to trying to persuade my DH that buying ~200 points RIV direct was worth the $5000+ more than buying restricted BLT resale, to my DH upping our buy to 250 points. Then we toured the RIV GV on our last trip and now I wish I'd bought more RIV points... I'm also really glad we didn't wait for RIV resale...

Knowing what we all know now, if you could turn back time and buy RIV (more) direct at $165 or less, would you?

For sure!! I paid $162/pt for my direct 175. I wish I had bought 250 which would have reduced my price down IIRC to $157/pt.

I do know I won’t go resale again except for RIV. For any other resort it will be direct.

Hoping next year to add on VGF…50 to 75 points depending on price, unless if it is a lot more than RIV, it will be more RIV!,,

 

[Sandisw]

There's no way they are telling anyone about it.

They don't want you to know that these things can be resold or that a resale market even exists.

I agree the topic of resale does not come up unless the buyer brings it up. However, when I bought direct, I had to sign a special page that was a copy of the restrictions in the POS.

Basically, even if someone didn’t discuss with the guide, the buyer is made aware during the closing process with this document. They go the extra mile to make sure no one can say “it was in the fine print and I didn’t see it”.

 

[Wiltony]

I too have been less active on the site but wondered the same.

I suspect the hardcore Never Riviera's would say that there still are not enough resale data points and that the market, in general, is just crazy now and their dire predictions will come true some day.

I'm still a hardcore Never Riviera, and I'll admit I'm surprised that resale contracts are going for so much. I still can't understand why anyone would want to buy them for anything more than a very steep discount. I've recently had the pleasure of using my points at 3 different resorts, and just booked a trip to Aulani. I would be limitlessly frustrated if I were limited to a single resort, especially if I weren't *always* able to book more than 7 months out. Those Riviera resale restrictions are cancer. I imagine that many buyers, once they fully digest the implications of those restrictions, and after the newness of having those points wears off, will feel some regret and frustration at being limited to a single location year-after-year, for decades.

I would think at this point it appears as if the opposite is true.

If purchasers of these super restricted resale contracts are willing to shell out $151 per point on Riviera on average (https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-june-2021/), even while competing with direct sales that had incentives running at that time which drove direct prices well below $200 per point.... how much are people going to be willing to pay when the resort sells out and direct Riviera points are listed at $250 per point?

See above. I imagine for many (not all, of course), that ignorance is a contributing factor, and they do not quite fully understand the implications of the restrictions. But as they talk about their membership with other owners, and realize the massive limitation that has been imposed on them, they'll start to feel some pretty severe resentment.

I went from "I could pick up a resale contract at ~$100/pp to use for RIV only stays, if I see availability issues at 7mo" to trying to persuade my DH that buying ~200 points RIV direct was worth the $5000+ more than buying restricted BLT resale, to my DH upping our buy to 250 points. Then we toured the RIV GV on our last trip and now I wish I'd bought more RIV points... I'm also really glad we didn't wait for RIV resale...

Knowing what we all know now, if you could turn back time and buy RIV (more) direct at $165 or less, would you?

You know, I actually might. Now knowing that resale costs aren't as depressed as many (including me) thought, the direct-buy doesn't seem to have been so risky. OTOH, I don't have any particular affinity for Riviera or its location, so would have (actually did) used that money to buy more points at my home resort. I still have enough direct/pre-RR points to qualify for an occasional RR stay anyway.

My only fear with Riviera Resale is that as it gets nearer to selling out, it’s going to be totally booked out at 11 months. Nobody will probably be able to book at 7 from other resorts.

will even 11 months eventually be a rush to book studios

This another too-often overlooked punishment for RR resale buyers. They are limited to one resort for literally decades. Over that time, how often do you think they'll run into booking restrictions and can't get what they want? Seriously, RR resale restrictions are just sickeningly evil the more you delve into their implications.

And all this in addition to the imbalance/unfairness to owners of the rest of the resorts. The fact that OG14 post-RR resale owners do not get access to the RR, but RR owners get access to their resorts is grounds for a lawsuit, in my opinion.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm still a hardcore Never Riviera, and I'll admit I'm surprised that resale contracts are going for so much. I still can't understand why anyone would want to buy them for anything more than a very steep discount. I've recently had the pleasure of using my points at 3 different resorts, and just booked a trip to Aulani. I would be limitlessly frustrated if I were limited to a single resort, especially if I weren't *always* able to book more than 7 months out. Those Riviera resale restrictions are cancer. I imagine that many buyers, once they fully digest the implications of those restrictions, and after the newness of having those points wears off, will feel some regret and frustration at being limited to a single location year-after-year, for decades.


See above. I imagine for many (not all, of course), that ignorance is a contributing factor, and they do not quite fully understand the implications of the restrictions. But as they talk about their membership with other owners, and realize the massive limitation that has been imposed on them, they'll start to feel some pretty severe resentment.


You know, I actually might. Now knowing that resale costs aren't as depressed as many (including me) thought, the direct-buy doesn't seem to have been so risky. OTOH, I don't have any particular affinity for Riviera or its location, so would have (actually did) used that money to buy more points at my home resort. I still have enough direct/pre-RR points to qualify for an occasional RR stay anyway.



This another too-often overlooked punishment for RR resale buyers. They are limited to one resort for literally decades. Over that time, how often do you think they'll run into booking restrictions and can't get what they want? Seriously, RR resale restrictions are just sickeningly evil the more you delve into their implications.

And all this in addition to the imbalance/unfairness to owners of the rest of the resorts. The fact that OG14 post-RR resale owners do not get access to the RR, but RR owners get access to their resorts is grounds for a lawsuit, in my opinion.

The thing to remember is that buying RIV resale for staying at RIV doesn’t mean someone cant buy another contract elsewhere and end up with all options. I’d venture to bet that most resale buyers are people who own more than just RIV.

That is me, My RIV resale is for booking at RIV snd my other 675 points, including 175 direct RIV, can be used everywhere. So, it’s not a big deal at all.

I think those buying RIV resale understand it and enjoy the resort enough to stay there all the time.

All owners get access to all resorts if they buy direct points. So, nothing is preventing any L14 owner from staying at RIV like the direct RIV buyer gets to stay at their resorts. Simply buy direct.

Resale buyers are restricted both ways now, RIV resale can’t stay at L14 and L14 owner can’t stay at RIV…So, if I buy resale VGF, I don’t get RIV and that resale RIV buyer doesn’t get to stay at VGF….not sure how that doesn’t make it fair to all resale buyers.

Now, I completely agree that anyone who has bought RIV resale will need to book during home resort period, and even at 11 months. If one can not commit to that, then it would be a very poor choice for them.

 

[gisele2]

And all this in addition to the imbalance/unfairness to owners of the rest of the resorts. The fact that OG14 post-RR resale owners do not get access to the RR, but RR owners get access to their resorts is grounds for a lawsuit, in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
I agree

 

[wnielsen1]

No worries regarding availability down the road. Eventually, Disney will let you buy your way out of the restrictions for a hefty sum.

 

[RamblinWreck]

And all this in addition to the imbalance/unfairness to owners of the rest of the resorts. The fact that OG14 post-RR resale owners do not get access to the RR, but RR owners get access to their resorts is grounds for a lawsuit, in my opinion.

A great point. I think this will be worse for Riviera resale owners than OG14 post-RR resale owners though.

Imagine you own resale at Riviera and you want to book something within the 7 month window. It may all be gone. You may have literally nothing you can do with your points except bank them and plan further ahead the next year.

At least the OG14 have flexibility and can try for other resorts if their home resort is booked up.

 

[Wiltony]

Resale buyers are restricted both ways now, RIV resale can’t stay at L14 and L14 owner can’t stay at RIV…So, if I buy resale VGF, I don’t get RIV and that resale RIV buyer doesn’t get to stay at VGF….not sure how that doesn’t make it fair to all resale buyers.

I understand your point, except for the fact that this presumes a proportionate number of resale (restricted) owners in both pools, which Disney cannot manage/maintain.

To put it another way, imagine a hypothetical scenario where *everyone* at the OG14 were unrestricted direct-purchase (or pre-RR) owners, and *everyone* at RR were restricted resale-purchase owners. You would have a severe imbalance causing not only catastrophic 7-month availability issues, but the legality of allowing a MASSIVE timeshare ownership pool to access to your own very small ownership pool with no reciprocity is questionable.

This will all get worse once D.V.D. adds more resorts into this model.

 

[scoobdoo]

4.5% pop on $DIS shares after hours on a hefty earnings beat, rebounding parks revenue and new sub figures. In other words, I think our DVC and our Riviera investment just went up a few notches

 

[Sandisw]

I understand your point, except for the fact that this presumes a proportionate number of resale (restricted) owners in both pools, which Disney cannot manage/maintain.

To put it another way, imagine a hypothetical scenario where *everyone* at the OG14 were unrestricted direct-purchase (or pre-RR) owners, and *everyone* at RR were restricted resale-purchase owners. You would have a severe imbalance causing not only catastrophic 7-month availability issues, but the legality of allowing a MASSIVE timeshare ownership pool to access to your own very small ownership pool with no reciprocity is questionable.

This will all get worse once D.V.D. adds more resorts into this model.

It will take a long time to tip the scales since owners prior to January 2019 are grandfathered so I’d argue lot more L14 resale owners out there who can trade into RIV than RIV are trading out based on when they bought.

Now, there are some who feel the entrance of RIV into BVTC crossed a line, and I have no opinion one way or the other on that.

But, I currently don’t see it as being an unfair situation since resale points to resale points and direct points to direct points are each treated with the same rules.

I also have no issue with resale restrictions. It changes the product, no question there, but it’s DVDs right to do that and accept the consequences of that decision.

So far, RIV resale Is holding its own and many-are buying it. Contracts do not sit, on average, for very long.

We shall see what happens in 5 years from now.

 

[rubybutt]

My only fear with Riviera Resale is that as it gets nearer to selling out, it’s going to be totally booked out at 11 months. Nobody will probably be able to book at 7 from other resorts.

will even 11 months eventually be a rush to book studios

Fixed week for the win!

 

[rubybutt]

I have direct RIV so no issues for me, but I have already seen where people are talking about swapping RIV and other resort contracts. If it is an issue, this is what will happen. Just as renting points is not an issue now, a market for swapping at 11 months will open up. This really hasn't been talked about. If you have a RIV direct, book a popular time, rent it out, then use the money to rent at another resort. If you are savvy enough to buy resale, this is very easy. RIV resale isn't as bad as some have it in their head. Do the extra steps suck? Yes. Is it a deal breaker? No. And this is being backed up by the retail market so far.

 

[starfrenzy]

I've recently had the pleasure of using my points at 3 different resorts, and just booked a trip to Aulani. I would be limitlessly frustrated if I were limited to a single resort, especially if I weren't *always* able to book more than 7 months out. Those Riviera resale restrictions are cancer. I imagine that many buyers, once they fully digest the implications of those restrictions, and after the newness of having those points wears off, will feel some regret and frustration at being limited to a single location year-after-year, for decades.

After making a stop to visit our beloved Riviera on our trip last month, my mother and I came home eager to get Riviera points (my resale points don’t grant me access there).

We were “this close” to buying a Riviera resale contract last week. The price was fair, the points and use year were right, but in the end I decided the 25-30% savings wouldn’t be worth it to be locked into one resort for 48 years. I’d rather pay a bit more and have access to all. The extra $5000 over the course of the contract for 100 pts isn’t much per year. The dues are the same.

We adore Riviera, but like you said there is Vero Beach, Aulani, and many places at the World I’d like the flexibility to stay at. I was worried, too, about availability being tight and not being able to use our points at Riviera or anywhere (or be forced into a higher room category and get less nights).

We’ll buy direct.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

And all this in addition to the imbalance/unfairness to owners of the rest of the resorts. The fact that OG14 post-RR resale owners do not get access to the RR, but RR owners get access to their resorts is grounds for a lawsuit, in my opinion.

This post has a lot of good information on the topic.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/w...t-to-revert-dvcs-resale-restrictions.3747861/I'm very curious what happens down the line when there are a lot more resale contracts for Riviera that can only use Riviera and also a lot more non-Riviera resales that can't access Riviera and any future resorts. The restrictions impact more and more people every day.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

I have direct RIV so no issues for me, but I have already seen where people are talking about swapping RIV and other resort contracts. If it is an issue, this is what will happen. Just as renting points is not an issue now, a market for swapping at 11 months will open up. This really hasn't been talked about. If you have a RIV direct, book a popular time, rent it out, then use the money to rent at another resort. If you are savvy enough to buy resale, this is very easy. RIV resale isn't as bad as some have it in their head. Do the extra steps suck? Yes. Is it a deal breaker? No. And this is being backed up by the retail market so far.

This is a rather inefficient way to stay at the O14. There are income tax consequences for renting your points out. I think this method is a much bigger PITA than you make it out to be.