Regarding timing of announcing new DVC properties...

[crisi]

Whether these variations have anything to do with the intended use of the resort or if they are simply tied to DVC marketing strategy remains to be seen.

It remains possible that Disney itself has not decided. DVC type units not sold as DVC would make wonderful "family suites" - a market Disney is lacking in. The Pop family suites are OK, but for the family with a lot of cash Disney would like to bring down (customers with lots of cash tend to spend on things with margin) - they aren't preferred. Then you have the connecting room Deluxes or putting five in a Deluxe using the daybed with one bathroom. However, I'd think if Disney wants to be successful in that market, they are going to have to figure out a way to limit DVC members renting out their points. Not announcing gives them flexibility to sell what they have, think about future options and change their mind later. They could be building something that could be shared use - some DVC suites, some fractionals, and some family suites held by CRO.

If Disney is going to have a Deluxe family suites option, they may want to keep it quiet on purpose from DVC owners and potential owners. For potential owners, it gives them an option that doesn't involve a huge up front investment - it will cut into DVCs market (but poach into another Disney business). For current owners, they may be disappointed not to have CRV as an option, it will almost certainly make people who do rent frequently mad.

(I think it will be DVC Villas, myself, but without an announcement - there are options.)

 

[tjkraz]

It remains possible that Disney itself has not decided.

(snip)

(I think it will be DVC Villas, myself, but without an announcement - there are options.)

I agree with both of these sentiments.

However, I'd think if Disney wants to be successful in that market, they are going to have to figure out a way to limit DVC members renting out their points. Not announcing gives them flexibility to sell what they have, think about future options and change their mind later. They could be building something that could be shared use - some DVC suites, some fractionals, and some family suites held by CRO.

The point renting is one reason why I tend to think that dual use would be difficult to pull off. I know that not everybody knows about renting, but the volume of people who do isn't getting any smaller.

 

[keishashadow]

Thanks for the explanation. I have to say that if CR was one of these "fractionals", I'd be flaming mad. Disney would alienate many loyal guests in creating this grand property that only corporations or the elite wealthy could afford comfortably.

certainly would create a caste/class system among members...where's the luv for the current family (the pitch of prepaying your vacations, etc in all the promos) in this scenario?

 

[wdw4life]

Has anyone heard anything about when Grand California DVC will be for sale, or when the initial stays will begin?

Deb

Opening is projected to be Nov '09. As far as sales, I was told sometime around May '09 but no official date has ben given yet.

 

[tjkraz]

Thanks for the explanation. I have to say that if CR was one of these "fractionals", I'd be flaming mad. Disney would alienate many loyal guests in creating this grand property that only corporations or the elite wealthy could afford comfortably.

Many would say they've already done that. With Deluxe rooms over $300 most nights, they are well out of the price range of many, many Americans. But that's why Moderate and Value rooms are also available.

If you want to talk about classes, how about the benefits extended to DVC members or Passholders that are not available to the general public. Do you think that non-DVC members / non-AP holders have a right to be "flaming mad" because they are locked out of new attraction previews? Do you think it's unfair that most guests have to buy a package (tickets + room) in order to get the dining plan? Or that they have to pay full price for many meals that are discounted to AP or DVC groups?

Walt Disney World is filled with experiences that are only accessible--for financial or other reasons--to one group our another. I suspect the level of outrage largely depends on which side of the coin one happens to be on.

 

[WoodysRoundup]

Many would say they've already done that. With Deluxe rooms over $300 most nights, they are well out of the price range of many, many Americans. But that's why Moderate and Value rooms are also available.

If you want to talk about classes, how about the benefits extended to DVC members or Passholders that are not available to the general public. Do you think that non-DVC members / non-AP holders have a right to be "flaming mad" because they are locked out of new attraction previews? Do you think it's unfair that most guests have to buy a package (tickets + room) in order to get the dining plan? Or that they have to pay full price for many meals that are discounted to AP or DVC groups?

Walt Disney World is filled with experiences that are only accessible--for financial or other reasons--to one group our another. I suspect the level of outrage largely depends on which side of the coin one happens to be on.

Of course, everything in life is relative. No need for an argument here. My "anger" would be based on the fact that if CR did become a fractional, that is a type of timeshare.....as is DVC. When we bought into DVC, we believed that we'd have the ability to by points at any existing or future Disney timeshare....that they would all be structured the way they are presently. If a fractional was created, I believe Disney would anger many loyal DVC members who were promised a monorail DVC property years ago.

I'm not sure how my comment turned into a whole comparison about fairness in prices at Disney in general? I think most people just realize you stay where you can afford and eat where you can afford. I know we do. I don't sit around thinking I'm slighted b/c someone else has a better experience. Everyone would like a better car, house, etc. but we all get things we can afford. I was speaking specifically about the CR property and if it was turned into a timeshare different than the DVC program that is already in place. And no, I don't think it's unfair that some people get discounts while others don't, or that passholders get attraction previews, etc. That's life!

 

[DVCPAT]

exactly, you might as well throw your logic out the window, this project has not followed any typical rules or timelines

I think Disney’s logic is, why announce CRV early? The announcement would only have a negative impact on current AKV sales. Disney property is no different than offsite property…..location has a major impact for most buyers. I haven’t seen any promotions on Disney suites being the best kept secret.

 

[JimMIA]

I think Disney’s logic is, why announce CRV early? The announcement would only have a negative impact on current AKV sales. Disney property is no different than offsite property…..location has a major impact for most buyers. I haven’t seen any promotions on Disney suites being the best kept secret.

I agree with Pat. I think CRV will be all-DVC, but I don't think they'll announce it until pretty late in the process for a couple of reasons.

One obvious reason is it will adversely affect AKV...unless there is something very different about CRV (much higher price, for example). GCV and Hawaii don't affect sales at WDW at all -- if anything, they help because they offer additional options to prospective buyers. But CRV will definitely affect AKV sales.

The other reason I think they'll delay somewhat longer than usual is that this entire project will all come online essentially at the same time. SSR and AKV were built in stages, so they had some early units to sell. This is not a situation where one building gets a CO and closings can take place, but the bulk of the project comes online one building at a time over a period of years. CRV won't be like that. The whole tower will finish and open at once.

 

[tjkraz]

Of course, everything in life is relative. No need for an argument here. My "anger" would be based on the fact that if CR did become a fractional, that is a type of timeshare.....as is DVC. When we bought into DVC, we believed that we'd have the ability to by points at any existing or future Disney timeshare....that they would all be structured the way they are presently.

I think that's a poor assumption to begin with.

DVC could easily create different tiers in the system as future resorts are developed. We could easily see different booking priorities at different locations. The only guarantee is that we each will have at least one month's priority (not even the current four months--just one month) at our Home resort.

That said this is the first I've heard of fractionals being linked to Disney-owned sites. My gut feeling is that there's not much to this rumor. But be careful in making assumptions as time goes on. DVC doesn't owe us nearly as much some seem to think that they do.

If a fractional was created, I believe Disney would anger many loyal DVC members who were promised a monorail DVC property years ago.

DVC has never made such a promise.

I'm not sure how my comment turned into a whole comparison about fairness in prices at Disney in general? I think most people just realize you stay where you can afford and eat where you can afford. I know we do. I don't sit around thinking I'm slighted b/c someone else has a better experience. [/quote]

Then I guess I missed the point of your condemning the idea of fractionals on the asumption that "only corporations or the elite wealthy could afford [them] comfortably."

I have no desire to start an argument but after reading your follow-up post, I do think you are giving DVC waaaay to much credit in assuming that they owe anything to DVC members beyond the current 8 resorts and the regs published in the POS. Even "goodwill" doesn't carry as much weight as some may think--recent changes to the program (transfer rules, banking rules, waitlist) have definitely caused hard to longtime members. But that harm didn't keep DVC from implementing the changes.

If Disney decides there is money to be made in fractionals, so be it. They wouldn't be taking anything away from members that was previously promised. DVC villas at the CR is--and always has been--filed purely under the heading of rumor and speculation.

 

[tjkraz]

GCV and Hawaii don't affect sales at WDW at all -- if anything, they help because they offer additional options to prospective buyers.

I have to disagree with Jim. Disneyland has had a DVC sales center for 2-3 years now and they have been responsible for selling thousands of SSR and AKV points. And that was with no promise of a DVC resort in Anaheim.

The Grand Californian addition was announced 2 years before the villas will open and (in all likelihood) more than a year before sales will begin. That announcement will undeniably impact their ability to sell SSR and AKV points over the next 12-18 months.

 

[Chuck S]

DVC has never made such a promise.

If Disney decides there is money to be made in fractionals, so be it. They wouldn't be taking anything away from members that was previously promised. DVC villas at the CR is--and always has been--filed purely under the heading of rumor and speculation.

Contractually, Disney/DVC is not obligated to provide anything, except the ability, based upon availability, to book stays at our HOME resort. Not even the option of trading intra-DVC to other resorts is set in stone. So certainly no "promise" of a monorail resort was ever made.

 

[WoodysRoundup]

Contractually, Disney/DVC is not obligated to provide anything, except the ability, based upon availability, to book stays at our HOME resort. Not even the option of trading intra-DVC to other resorts is set in stone. So certainly no "promise" of a monorail resort was ever made.

Newer member here, but I'm sure I remember reading a thread or two on these boards a while back saying that early on, DVD had said they'd hoped to build a future DVC resort on the monorail? I realize that DVC is not obligated to provide anything to it's members about future resorts. When the idea of CR being fractionals was brought up, I just stated my displeasure should that happen. I realize it probably won't be that type of property.

 

[WoodysRoundup]

Then I guess I missed the point of your condemning the idea of fractionals on the asumption that "only corporations or the elite wealthy could afford [them] comfortably."

I have no desire to start an argument

.

Yes, I think you did miss the point I was trying to make and it's apparent to me that you DO just want to argue back and forth about this.

Merry Christmas!

 

[JimMIA]

I have to disagree with Jim. Disneyland has had a DVC sales center for 2-3 years now and they have been responsible for selling thousands of SSR and AKV points. And that was with no promise of a DVC resort in Anaheim.

The Grand Californian addition was announced 2 years before the villas will open and (in all likelihood) more than a year before sales will begin. That announcement will undeniably impact their ability to sell SSR and AKV points over the next 12-18 months.

I know they've had a DVC sales function at DL for several years, but I think their early customers were people who had no previous ability to purchase DVC in California (because DVC wasn't licensed there). Even if they knew about DVC, they didn't want to make the trek to WDW just to buy, and most probably didn't know about the resale market.

Some folks who live on the West Coast might now purchase GCV rather than AKV, but others will be drawn to GCV and discover AKV as another option. Since GCV is so small, I think it might actually increase interest in SSR/AKV in the long run.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I think Disney’s logic is, why announce CRV early? The announcement would only have a negative impact on current AKV sales. Disney property is no different than offsite property…..location has a major impact for most buyers. I haven’t seen any promotions on Disney suites being the best kept secret.

not sure why you are quoting me

this isthe whole point of what I already agreed to from another poster.

it was being argued that it wasnt dvc because it wasnt announced yet

Im saying you could reverse that and say its not non dvc because it hasnt been announced

 

[tjkraz]

Yes, I think you did miss the point I was trying to make and it's apparent to me that you DO just want to argue back and forth about this.

Not arguing at all...just trying to clear up a number of incorrect assumptions.

The bottom line is that nothing is set in stone until...well...pretty much until DVC begins selling. DVC has announced resorts previously and changed its plans. The CR building could have any number of intended uses, of which DVC is only one. Members have been hoping for DVC villas there for years and years, but DVC has never promised anything. Disney's general silence on the subject could be meaningful or meaningless.

If it does end up having some other use, I'm sure you are just one of many who will be disappointed. But the reality is Disney isn't going to let a fear of upsetting people play any big role in its decision.

Merry Christmas!

Same to you!

 

[crisi]

The bottom line is that nothing is set in stone until...well...pretty much until DVC begins selling. DVC has announced resorts previously and changed its plans. The CR building could have any number of intended uses, of which DVC is only one. Members have been hoping for DVC villas there for years and years, but DVC has never promised anything. Disney's general silence on the subject could be meaningful or meaningless.

Buy what you are contracted for, not what you currently get as perks or what may happen in the future. And even if you merely buy what you are contracted for, there is a risk involved - that WDW will continue to be a vacation destination that appeals to you, that Disney will continue to maintain DVC to your standards.

People here have made the bet that both those things will happen - and I think its a good bet. But if you buy DVC betting that we will always have access to the Dining Plan, that we will get park pass discounts, that you'll always be able to book a non-home resort, that trading options will still be there, that DVC will continue to expand and provide a monorail resort - even something as simple as banking and borrowing will always be allowed, you are setting yourself up for being disappointed.

 

[rinkwide]

...Disney's general silence on the subject could be meaningful or meaningless...

Yep, it's just your average, run-of-the-mill, large-scale, extremely indescreet construction project with absolutely no official announcement regarding it's intended purpose. I say, not a big deal. Disney probably just forgot to hold the press conference or something.

 

[DebbieB]

Even after a DVC resort has been announced, there's no guarantee it will be finished, as happened with Eagle Pines.

When I bought BWV in 1999, VWL was announced and under construction (but not yet for sale), there was a clause in my contract saying there was no guarantee that VWL would be completed or be part of DVC.

I do think it's kind of strange that they are this far along in construction and nothing has been announced at all, no matter what the use. Disney usually announces new construction projects before they start. Something is definitely going up there and pretty fast, it's not a mirage . I was surprised they were up to 4 floors when I was there at the beginning of the month. Looks like it should be completed sometime in 2009.

 

[DVCPAT]

Im saying you could reverse that and say its not non dvc because it hasnt been announced

If it was non DVC, why keep it a secret? Future growth and expansion is great news to announce. The only reason not to announce expansion would be if the timing had a negative impact. Kind of like an automaker unveiling a 2008 and 2009 model at the same time. Sell the 2008 model and then unveil the 2009 model.