OT: Did you see Jenny McCarthy on Oprah?

[themilesfamily]

What a great thread this is!

I have a 3 year old. We are delaying the MMR, we have turned down the chicken pox vax, and we are delaying the Hep B vax until she is considerably older. Other than that, we are doing everything else -- DTAP, HIB, etc.

The reason we chose to delay the MMR is I have a family history that is rife with horrible reactions to this vax -- a cousin who passed away, a brother who went into some kind of shock, etc. Both had, I think the word is, anaphylaxis?? Is that just a fancy word for an allergic reaction?? I just remember that word being used in reference to my cousin's passing.

We live in Iowa which was the first state to require mercury-free vaccines -- so we haven't had mercury (in large quantities, at least) in a while.

I do think that four shots at an appointment -- which I believe is the norm these days -- is too much for an infant. If I had another baby, I would break up that schedule even more.

 

[brergnat]

AMYHUGHS: I urge you to look into testing again and to further investigate the definition of autism. You are definitely correct that the autistic spectrum is huge. But there is a precise, clinical definition of autism. A person has to meet very specific requirements in three separate categories to be labeled autistic.

My DD is on the spectrum but does not, by definition, have autism. That, however, does not mean that she does not need therapy and intervention. Pediatricians are NOT the best ones to diagnose autism. Neurologists and psychologists trained in autism are the specialists. I found mine through my school district and the state early intervention program.

Speech delays and flapping are two signs of an autistic spectrum disorder. You can't lose anything by getting him tested. You can only gain either peace of mind that he is not on the spectrum or peace of mind that he will begin receiving help as soon as possible.

Best of luck to you!

I read through this entire thread with interest and just needed to echo this!!!

I have a 3 y/o autistic (mildly affected) son and an 18 month old son. My 18 month old son has been receiving ABA thearpy for 10 hours/week for the past month due to what I truly believe is *just* a speech delay. However, since his older brother is autistic, we've adopted a very cautious attitude regarding our youngest. He is EXTREMELY strong willed and stubborn, even at this young age, which worries me. He occasionally stares into space and does not respond unless I call his name repeatedly (sometimes). Other than that, he does not seem autistic to me. He, at this time, definitely does not qualify for a diagnosis based on the criteria needed. He is, in most respects, the complete OPPOSITE of his brother, both in personality and in how he behaves so much more like a "typical" toddler. BUT, this does not mean he is "typical" or "normal" or "just quirky". There is nothing to lose from getting Early Intervention services. If your child turns out to be completely fine, you've lost nothing, the services are free. The evaluation is free. If not, you got a leg up with starting early. My oldest son began speech therapy at 19 months. He is now in Special Ed preschool and is doing SO well, and I don't even want to think about how he would be if he had not begun therapy when he did. At times, I forget he's autistic, because he has improved THAT much...

If I had waited until the pediatrician noticed that my oldest son needed to be evaluated, I'd still be waiting...you have to remember, pediatricians see your child for NO MORE THAN 15-20 min at a time, in a setting that, frankly, most children do not like very much. Unless a parent speaks up, the pediatrician will have no idea of what a child REALLY is like at home. I had to straight up ask the pedi for the number to call for Early Intervention services, because I had a gut feeling about my oldest son. She is now on the same page with me regarding my youngest...we are BOTH being very cautious where he is concerned.

If a SPEECH THERAPIST thinks your child may be autstic, LISTEN TO HER!!! These people work with kids day in and day out, they have seen a LOT. Don't blow her off. My older sister teaches 1st grade and she has kids in her class EVERY YEAR who she suspects may be autistic (at least on the spectrum) and the parents have NO CLUE, when she brings it to their attention.

I'm not trying to badger, but really, there is nothing to be gained from being in denial. Plus, a speech delay is enough of a reason to qualify for early intervention services. Get in now while your child is young. You don't want to end up having to pay for these therapies out of pocket when he's older (it's SUPER expensive and not usually covered by insurance).


In response to the OP (and subsequent posts):

My son, 3, is autistic (mildly affected). His diagnosis did not come as a shock to me. I was convinced he was autistic from the very early months of his life. I do not feel any vaccines in particular caused his autism. I believe in the genetic element. Upon further research, in fact, I believe my father may be on the spectrum, as well as my younger sister. My husband has OCD and my family has several members who are bi-polar. There is something amiss in our brain chemistry. My son received the MMR vaccine at 12 months. He was exhibiting unusual behaviors by 9 months.

My other son, 18 months, is not talking yet. He was a month premature, and developed his gross motor skills about a month behind where he should have (which was expected). He is very social and does not exhibit troubling behaviors. He has been vaccinated on a spread out schedule, since the his pediatrician agrees with me to proceed with caution where he is concerned. My pedi's stance on the vaccine link is up in the air. She does not personally believe that the vaccines cause autism, but she also won't rule it out until they find out definitively (if they ever do) WHAT triggers it to develop. She sides with parents on how they want to proceed re: vaccinations. My son was just in yesterday for his 18 mo checkup and I told her I still want to hold off on MMR. Her response was: "I don't blame you." I will probably wait until he's at least 2, possibly 3. My "gut" feeling on him--he's not autistic, but I also have a gut feeling that something is not right.

 

[XYSRUS]

I am a mother of an autistic son. He's my second one. I've had #3 and #4 vaccinated, but on a slower schedule. I don't believe the vaccinations caused his autism. Like someone else said, looking back I realize he was different from Day 1. I chose to vaccinate the other two kids b/c, working in the medical field, I've seen firsthand how devastating those diseases can be. Personally, I would vaccinate a child, but on a slower schedule. And, I can't think of any doctor that would have a problem with that.

 

[fakereadhed]

In her opinion, her son showed signs of autism even before he was vaccinated.

That struck a nerve with me. As a mom of a kid with ASD, I wondered about autism way before she received MMR. She was not rolling over and did not respond to our facial expressions.But she did receive Hep B before she left the hospital.

As far as who cares what a celebrity thinks, the point is we're talking about it. Anything that raises awareness is good IMO, although I do worry about kids not being vaccinated.

 

[dcforbreakfast]

Babies technically don't need the Hep B shot when they're born unless the mom has it, correct? And they can test you for it right? I don't remember if my son got it or not.

I am guilty of just believing the doctors and doing whatever they say. I think I give more scrutiny to what shots the dog's getting. Ugh. How embarrasing.

 

[Missin'Disney]

What a great thread this is...I saw the Oprah show and really applaud Jenny McCarthy for the active role she has taken in "getting her son out". I think Oprah could have probed her better as an interviewer....she kind of just sat there & let Jenny talk...but that's another topic. I love Oprah though....but anyway, I don't have anything profound to add to this thread, I will just share my personal experiences. I have three children, never had any problems with the normal vaccination schedule for the first two, but now I've decided for my third (who is three months old now) to space things out a bit. I just feel that an infant's immune system may not be equipped to deal with a barrage of shots in one day. I didn't do Hep. in hospital b/c I thought it seemed unnecessary & my ped. is respectful of my decision to delay but also reminds me how terrible it would be if the baby contracted any of the diseases the vax prevent. It's as if she's trying to scare me into staying on schedule. I told her that I don't want to do two shots in one visit, so she has me coming back at two week intervals to keep him close to schedule but without giving more than one shot at a time. She pretty much forced us to do Hep when he came in for his first visit barely out of the hospital! On one hand, i feel like she's the doc and probably knows what is best for him, but on the other hand I'm afraid of overwhelming his immune system. Anyway, I didn't even know that the MMR could be split up (I thought it was combined into one shot) and this is something I will definately be researching before he's due for that. Anyway, good luck to everyone out there who is trying to sort through this difficult issue!

 

[KimWDW]

What I find interesting when thinking about the possible causes of autism is the fact that this condition affects considerably more boys than girls. 75% of those diagnosed are boys. If the cause was vacinnes, wouldn't it be split 50/50? Also, the studies done in countries that don't vax still have children with autism. Some say the trigger is too much early television exposure. Some say it's environmental pollution (which would explain the clusters of autism that show up in certain areas). Some say there's a genetic component. I don't know what the answer is.

I also am fascinated by the almost epidemic rise in dangerous childhood allergies, especially the fatal peanut allergy. Like autism, it's always been around but was in the past very rare and is now dramatically rising. And they haven't conclusively figured out why.

 

[tlbwriter]

My son had a severe reaction to the MMR vaccine. High fever for 2 weeks, red bumps all over his body, he was so sick. My husband & I were terrified. He had never been sick before that, but after he had chronic ear infections, colds, etc., until he was 7. His Dr. wanted him to have the 2nd MMR last year, because he said his immune system could handle it now. This is our only child, how can I take a chance?

That's odd that your doctor is pushing it. I thought a reaction to a previous vaccine was one of the CDC's "official" reasons to *not* vaccinate.

 

[tlbwriter]

DCforbreakfast posted:
I tend to agree with those who posted saying that many things cause autism. Several twin studies have shown that in identical twins, who share the same genes, the rate of autism in one twin if the other twin has been diagnosed is very high; while in fraternal twins, who are no more genetically linked than brother and sister, the rate of autism in one twin if the other twin has been diagnosed is no more, and sometimes even less, than the average rate.

That's very interesting. Certainly works toward dispelling the notion that autism is caused by something that happens in utero. And presuming those twins were vaccinatedat the same time, it strongly suggests vaccination isn't the issue either.

 

[oldbay]

There may be a link between the father's age and autism. A father in his 30's has a 1 1/2 increase risk of having an autistic child and a father in his 40's has a five times greater risk of increased autism in his child. This study was done in Israel and was published sept. 2006. I did not copy the whole article but a quick search with autism, father, age will give you many articles about the study. Just another thing to think about.

 

[NemoMOm]

This is such a good thread.

I think diet may have some role in it as well. We are so use to what is int he American market we do not even realize how badly we are eating. And I don't mean just fast food. I have acid reflux very bad. By the time I went for meds I was vomitting stomach acid everyday no matter if I had eaten or not. I was on the pills for 2 mos then stopped because they are not good for liver.

I went to Italy where everything is fresh! Even the bread is baked daily and the grocery stores are tiny (the size of a large CVS) because there are no boxed/pre-prepared meals. I had NO problems even while eating spicy foods (my Italian is not so good so ordered wrong ) I came back and changed our diet completely. We do not eat any preservatives. It makes it more time consuming to cook but the entire family feels the difference.

Because of this forum I was reading my prenatals last night, just switched to ones with DHA in them. Well, it has a warning that if you are allergic to fish/fish oils do not take. Well, I'm too scared to take them now so there goes 30 bucks down the tube and I'll buy te old ones. But you never know.

Sorry so long but I thought I'd share my expereince with diet. Oh, and when my doc asked why I wasn't on the pills anymore and I explained with a change of diet I don't need them he said "your diet should have no affect on your acide reflux" I no longer go the pill pusherlol!

 

[NemoMOm]

So, I know I just posted but I thought since there are so many of you whom have knowledge of autism I would post here.

I watch a 26 mos old girl a couple days a week.I have felt that she should be take to see someone other than her ped. but I'm not her parents so I have no say so. But even one of my other parents asked if she had seen someone.

She does know a few words but they are ma, da da and no.
She throw temper tantrums sometimes for up to 5 hrs.
Motor skills are very poor.
Does not play well with children her own age.
No eye contact.
Would rather play alone.
Does not like to be touched
Cries alot for no apparent reason, lex. will be coloring happily then just start to sob.

I think she could be somewhere on the spectrum or do you think I could just be over analyzing?

 

[sha_lyn]

Because of this forum I was reading my prenatals last night, just switched to ones with DHA in them. Well, it has a warning that if you are allergic to fish/fish oils do not take. Well, I'm too scared to take them now so there goes 30 bucks down the tube and I'll buy te old ones. But you never know.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe that flax seed is also a good source of DHA
(it is either it or another omega 3 fatty acid)

 

[jodifla]

I have a DD on the autistic spectrum and I did vaccinate.



This is my theory as well. Some children can get all the shots and no autism because they are not predisposed to it. I look forward to the day when scientists can figure out a way to determine those who are predisposed to it!



AMYHUGHS: I urge you to look into testing again and to further investigate the definition of autism. You are definitely correct that the autistic spectrum is huge. But there is a precise, clinical definition of autism. A person has to meet very specific requirements in three separate categories to be labeled autistic.

My DD is on the spectrum but does not, by definition, have autism. That, however, does not mean that she does not need therapy and intervention. Pediatricians are NOT the best ones to diagnose autism. Neurologists and psychologists trained in autism are the specialists. I found mine through my school district and the state early intervention program.

Speech delays and flapping are two signs of an autistic spectrum disorder. You can't lose anything by getting him tested. You can only gain either peace of mind that he is not on the spectrum or peace of mind that he will begin receiving help as soon as possible.

Best of luck to you!

I would disagree. While I'm glad you found proper support through the school system, lots of parents aren't so lucky.

The truth is, there are a lot of being "diagnosing" autism or ASD disorders who have no business doing so. It's caused a lot of the increased numbers -- not vaccinations. (Vaccinations are of course serious business and do cause complications, but so do the diseases they are meant to prevent.)

And wrong treatments can be devastating to kids, putting them on the wrong track for life.

So I encourage parents who are going to have their kids tested to make sure the testers have the proper credentials to do so. Their a lot of charlatans out there, and I talk to parents on a daily basis who have been severely burned by the school system or other clinicians who are clueless at best, or making a buck off of parents' fears at worst.

 

[brergnat]

I would disagree. While I'm glad you found proper support through the school system, lots of parents aren't so lucky.

The truth is, there are a lot of being "diagnosing" autism or ASD disorders who have no business doing so. It's caused a lot of the increased numbers -- not vaccinations. (Vaccinations are of course serious business and do cause complications, but so do the diseases they are meant to prevent.)

And wrong treatments can be devastating to kids, putting them on the wrong track for life.

So I encourage parents who are going to have their kids tested to make sure the testers have the proper credentials to do so. Their a lot of charlatans out there, and I talk to parents on a daily basis who have been severely burned by the school system or other clinicians who are clueless at best, or making a buck off of parents' fears at worst.

I just want to point out that speech therapists and teachers are NOT qualified to give a diagnosis of autism, BUT they have a lot of experience working with children who have been given a definitive diagnosis, so they are well versed in recognizing children who *may be* on the spectrum.

Teachers and speech therapists, to name two, are NOT out to "make a buck" off parents. Why would you say this? The school system itself is not even qualified to diagnose a child. The most they are allowed (by law) to do is evaluate a child and determine if the child presents with enough criteria to be AT RISK for autism, but the actual diagnosis has to come from a Neurologist or behavioral psychiatrist, after a lengthy evaluation process.

All I can say is that my son's diagnosis was made by a pediatric neurologist, FOLLOWING a recommendation by a behavioral specialist, speech therapist, and pediatrician. His speech therapist did not think he was autistic, but then he moved into a group speech program and the new therapist thought he may be, after seeing how he interacted within a group settting. They know what to look for, but they will not (because they CANNOT) give a diagnosis.

If someone tells you that they think your child is autistic, and they are in a field where they have experience with this sort of thing, listen to them, but by all means, do not take what they say to be fact, but rather FIND someone who CAN make that diagnosis.

 

[jodifla]

I just want to point out that speech therapists and teachers are NOT qualified to give a diagnosis of autism, BUT they have a lot of experience working with children who have been given a definitive diagnosis, so they are well versed in recognizing children who *may be* on the spectrum.

Teachers and speech therapists, to name two, are NOT out to "make a buck" off parents. Why would you say this? The school system itself is not even qualified to diagnose a child. The most they are allowed (by law) to do is evaluate a child and determine if the child presents with enough criteria to be AT RISK for autism, but the actual diagnosis has to come from a Neurologist or behavioral psychiatrist, after a lengthy evaluation process.

All I can say is that my son's diagnosis was made by a pediatric neurologist, FOLLOWING a recommendation by a behavioral specialist, speech therapist, and pediatrician. His speech therapist did not think he was autistic, but then he moved into a group speech program and the new therapist thought he may be, after seeing how he interacted within a group settting. They know what to look for, but they will not (because they CANNOT) give a diagnosis.

If someone tells you that they think your child is autistic, and they are in a field where they have experience with this sort of thing, listen to them, but by all means, do not take what they say to be fact, but rather FIND someone who CAN make that diagnosis.

Lots of kids are diagnosed by the school system as autistic without any other medical professional confirming/denying. There are several folks on this board who can attest to that fact because they participate in the process at the school level.

There's no law that says you have to have a medical diagnosis before you get slapped with a completely wrong label that shuffles along with you through school.

I don't think teachers are out to make a buck (private speech therapists may or may not be) but the truth is schools steer kids into the programs they have readily available instead of the ones most appropriate for them.

There are incredibly varying degrees of expertise with psychologists and neurologists, however. And if parents aren't careful, they'll get a person who sees any deviation as an autism spectrum disorder, instead of getting to the true root of the situation.

 

[amarberry]

I'm not 100% certain but I believe that flax seed is also a good source of DHA
(it is either it or another omega 3 fatty acid)

Actually, I don't believe that flax seed oil is a sufficient source of DHA during pregnancy. I looked into this when I found out I was pregnant because I'm a vegetarian and I would prefer not to consume fish oils. It's been almost 9 months, so I don't really remember why flax seed wasn't enough. Anyhow, there is a prenatal vitamin that is "fish friendly" called Citracal prenatal + DHA. The DHA in this prenatal is derived from a plant source (algae) rather than fish. The Citracal was also cheaper than the Duet DHA that I was originally prescribed.

 

[NemoMOm]

Actually, I don't believe that flax seed oil is a sufficient source of DHA during pregnancy. I looked into this when I found out I was pregnant because I'm a vegetarian and I would prefer not to consume fish oils. It's been almost 9 months, so I don't really remember why flax seed wasn't enough. Anyhow, there is a prenatal vitamin that is "fish friendly" called Citracal prenatal + DHA. The DHA in this prenatal is derived from a plant source (algae) rather than fish. The Citracal was also cheaper than the Duet DHA that I was originally prescribed.

Thx I'll look into both. It's funny cause I did not take DHA w/DS1 and all of the sudden they are pushing it now (same doc ) But last night after thinking about this thread I just happen to read the prescrip label (just got it from pharmacy) and I thought holy cow! I'm not even sure where the fish oil comes from (i mean what fish) and all these researchers are thinking that autism could come from toxins found in fish. So, I thought just in case....

 

[somechick]

I just wanted to say that while this doesn't address the vaccination question, I have a friend whose DS has HFA. I have never asked her about whether he was vaccinated.

BUT, I told my husband when the boy was two weeks old that there was something wrong with him. I struggled over saying something to her, because I didn't have any kids at the time, and didn't want to stick my nose into something that wasn't my business. I will now feel guilty for the rest of my life, because she and her ped didn't figure out that there was something wrong until he was almost 2.

I don't know what it was, maybe because he didn't move at all, just laid there and didn't respond to noises, or other stimuli, or even seem to blink when the light changed around him. His little hands and feet didn't wiggle around like all the other babies I had seen. I don't know, but I couldn't bring myself to tell my BF that I thought something was wrong with her son. Now I wish I had, because they might have figured it out sooner and gotten a head start on learning about it.

I still can't understand how her ped didn't notice anything. He was clearly not hitting his milestones, had serious motor skill issues, etc...

I just hope we can someday find the cause and learn to help those affected.

 

[amyhughes]

In our case, our son is developing with his age group in some areas, in others we are behind. Drinking from a cup, using utensils, learning the phonetic alphabet, potty training, learning from mistakes and reasoning, taking two step commands (pretty well, he is 3 after all!). Also his gross motor development is exceptional for a three year old. He climbs ladders (and most anything else in our home), runs, jumps, skips, points, marches, etc.

When she said that I was kinda taken aback. I know he lags behind in some areas, but that is mainly due to speech which can be a HUGE set back and affect many different areas of study. He can hear perfectly, but the fine motor task of getting the words out of his mouth is difficult. I know there is that connection between and object, it's name, it's use and then the word coming out of his mouth. He does this for some items, like helicopter, or elephant. But he refuses to say PLEASE. (this is why I think it is more a battle of wills than anything else)

It's not that I discredit her knowledge level, just at the age of 3 given what else it could be I saw no reason to pursue. I have worked with autistic children in the past. If my son is he is VERY high functioning. It could be ADD, ADHD, ODD or a strong willed child with a speech delay. I am an education major and respect highly those individuals that are out there everyday working with kids. It is a thankless job. But there is also a draw back: labelling and pigeon holing. In the best of worlds this would never happen but unfortunately we are all human and if my son is not autistic or add or adhd or ODD then what happens if his behaviors at the tender age of three are misinterpreted and he is diagnosed as such? As I said there were too many other factors she wasn't taking into consideration when "diagnosing" him to me, just the hand flapping and stare.

Thank you for your kind comments, but we are going to continue his speech therapy, work with his OT and behavior therapy until he is a bit older. If he continues to lag behind we will get him tested.