No more 'cuts in line' for many disabled Knott's guests

[In a hurry]

Where is the jaw hitting the floor smiley?!?

How many/or who has stated that handicapped children and adults should not be given access, and their legal rights? Maybe I've missed it.

 

[MosMom]

For the person who mentioned seeing a person in a wheelchair board Indiana Jones faster. Sure, that ride that has an exit-entry is probably faster. However, it has been mentioned here many times that there are very few "instant access" rides. Also, you're not noticing when they are sitting waiting for several busses because not all the lifts work, the extra time it takes to get through "traffic", bathroom breaks, getting in and out of counter service restaurants.

Clearly the line between truly disabled and abusers is blurry with some comments made in this thread. I think seeing someone using a wheelchair or a GAC ticks many people off whether they are truly disabled or not. I'm not saying everyone here feels that way but many do. That is the red hot issue that ticks so many off.

Until you've been the subject of nasty stares and comments it is hard not to take it a teeny bit personally. I think the best solution and it will only come with time is to make sure all ride queues are equally accessible. That will ultimately solve this "fairness" problem and truly bring equality to disabled people as well. Separating disabled people from their families is not the solution.

 

[disney kid at heart]

Oh wow, how horrible...able bodied people waiting in line. I would wait in line for hours for my daughter not to have an 11mm hole in her heart, a tethered spinal cord, imperforate anus with fistula, possible colostomy, fused and missing ribs, multicystic dysplastic kidney, a feeding tube and Reactive Airway Disease. I would wait in lines for eternity to have her healthy and whole in a heartbeat.

We used a GAC once when MAW coordinated her trip and only five people where allowed to get in with her, which was her dad, myself, and her three brothers. We where told only five besides her each time and we where just five. Luckily, WDW is very accomodating to their special needs guests and through all her struggle and pain, she gets to go to DW and forget her problems and feel joyful. She is 4yo and will be having surgery June 30th to have her fistula closed and her anus reconstructed. July 14th, she is having heart surgery.

Go ahead, take her place to have the privilege of "cutting in line" but take her burdens too, we won't be complaining, I promise.

Sereneone I will be praying for your precious daughter.

 

[In a hurry]

Until you've been the subject of nasty stares and comments it is hard not to take it a teeny bit personally. I think the best solution and it will only come with time is to make sure all ride queues are equally accessible. That will ultimately solve this "fairness" problem and truly bring equality to disabled people as well. Separating disabled people from their families is not the solution.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

I promised my daughter that we would go fishing and that is what we are going to do.

I have a Disney princess pole being waved in my face, I am off.

Hope you guys have a wonderful time fishing

OneLittleSpark, I love your name, and I agree with everything you said. Glad you explained the "screaming!"

Hehe, thank you. I think that threads like this can often lead to a lot of crossed wires. Often I find that people will be arguing with each other, when actually they all agree! There are a lot of strong feelings on this issue, which means people may jump to conclusions, or miss one another's meanings, because of the high emotions.

Sadly, there are some people in the world who will take advantage of almost anything to get an extra 'perk' (although faking a disability won't get you much of a perk at all at Disney). I'm guessing that the majority of people here would love to see them stopped. However, if that means cutting access for those who are disabled, it is both wrong and illegal. As nobody can tell who is and isn't disabled by looking at them, there's no point wasting your (generic 'your') holiday stressing over perceived 'fakers'.

The truth is, that being in a wheelchair doesn't actually get you much of a perk at all. What it does get you, is people walking under your wheels then glaring at you (I'm a careful driver, but I can't stop instantly if you cut me up on a downhill slope); a much longer wait to use the bathroom, as someone decided they wanted a roomier stall (not going to get into that one here, though); great difficulty in getting around a lot of shops; whacked in the face by people's bags; backsides in your face; a longer loading time on buses (I may slow you (generic 'you') down once on your holiday, but I slow myself down every single bus journey!); and so many more things that I won't go into here.

Sorry if ^ seemed like a rant.... I guess it was, but it wasn't aimed at anyone here in particular. I just get a little fed up with being told what a wonderful perk it is being in a wheelchair .

Oh, and as for the big text thing, I know how easy it can be to misunderstand things when you don't have the verbal and physical queues to help get the meaning across, so I try to explain myself as much as possible.

 

[crashbb]

say we are waiting at the bus stop before you, the bus pulls up but no spaces for p/c's ecv's, but space for 5/6 other people should you not wait till we get boarded on the next bus or even the one after that, no, but do we complain

Actually, I think that by law the able bodied people do have to wait. If I understood the law correctly (and someone can confirm), if the bus has no spaces for someone with a p/c or ecv, then it is considered to have no spaces for anyone - and thus should proceed to its destination without picking anyone up.

I'm not sure if WDW implements this though and I imagine that there would be howling if they did - especially if the person in the p/c or ecv came into the line after other people.

 

[KPeveler]

hey OLS - havent seen you around in a while!

anyway, this thread got nasty fast! I was only gone an hour or two!

disney cannot require a note, it is illegal. it would be like requiring anyone wearing glasses to carry their prescirption at all times. you need glasses to see, i need a wc to move sometimes.

yes, once in a wc i got on a ride about 5 mins faster than i would have without it. about 10 times on a ride, i waited between 10 and 60 mins longer than the standyby time.

no, it is not fair that i get on a ride before you. it is also not fair that you get on a ride before me, just because you can climb stairs.

this is something everything in this thread needs to realize:

LIFE IS NOT FAIR. and DISNEY IS NOT ALL POWERFUL!

disney cannot change the law to suit them (or you - general you, btw), they cannot make everything all better. what they CAN do is work with the reality that exists to try to give everyone equal access.

 

[TwinsinCA]

The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) specifies that people can't be forced to provide proof of disability to get the assistance they need.

Does that mean people can get handicapped placards without showing proof of actual need???

 

[KPeveler]

Does that mean people can get handicapped placards without showing proof of actual need???

No, because that is not equal access, but special access to certain limited spots.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Does that mean people can get handicapped placards without showing proof of actual need???

It's a perfectly valid question, but no, this law only applies to getting equal access. H/A parking spaces, social security, etc are considered 'above and beyond' equal access, so they do require proof. To board a ride with a wheelchair, or use a GAC to get the help you need, is considered as giving equal access. Of course, if Disney were to go around giving out 'front of the line' passes to anyone with a disability, they could then ask for proof, but they only give front of line passes to Wish kids (which I have no objections to whatsoever).

EDIT: K, you beat me to it! lol. Good to see you around, by the way!

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

hey OLS - havent seen you around in a while!

anyway, this thread got nasty fast! I was only gone an hour or two!

disney cannot require a note, it is illegal. it would be like requiring anyone wearing glasses to carry their prescirption at all times. you need glasses to see, i need a wc to move sometimes.

yes, once in a wc i got on a ride about 5 mins faster than i would have without it. about 10 times on a ride, i waited between 10 and 60 mins longer than the standyby time.
no, it is not fair that i get on a ride before you. it is also not fair that you get on a ride before me, just because you can climb stairs.

this is something everything in this thread needs to realize:

LIFE IS NOT FAIR. and DISNEY IS NOT ALL POWERFUL!

disney cannot change the law to suit them (or you - general you, btw), they cannot make everything all better. what they CAN do is work with the reality that exists to try to give everyone equal access.

OP here, bolding is mine, while the longer wait is not fair to you how is it fair to me to wait longer if you get on sooner? Everyone should wait the same time period IMO. Maybe your wait would have been shorter if abusers didn't take a place in the handicap line. And for anyone to say the abuse isn't rampant they must live in a fantasy world. Why else would parks have to crack down? FWIW the only abuse I've seen is at Disney. As for bathroom waits well abusers don't take the ECV's/WC's into RR they get off their butts and walk yup seen it and the fight over who gets to ride now when they return!!! Had a co worker who went to Disney 5 months pregnant healthy as a horse got a wheel chair so she didn't have to walk or wait in line because "it's hot in Florida in Auggust". Came back and said they were loaded right on all rides no waits she had a great time. Sickening. As for children with Autism few actually have autism it is the Disease of the day just like ADD/ADHD was in the 90's. Everyone and their brother has a kid who has autism or is "on the spectrum". For those who truly have it I am sorry but again people want an excuse for their childrens undisciplined behaviour and it's become the "disease of the day" there for discounting those poor children that do actually have it.

 

[agnes!]

I hesitated to post my recent experience, since it isn't connected with Knott's Berry Farm, but then thought that perhaps I should.

The first day of our most recent WDW trip I quite spectacularly broke (at least) one (and maybe another?) toe. Even though I could walk for short distances the wheelchair we rented was a true godsend. I was supposed to stay off of the broken toe/s(?) and that would have been hard without the wheelchair. And yes, we utilised a GAC for the first and hopefully only time. The amount of time it took to get up and down all those hills in MK and Epcot...took us forever to get anywhere, especially when the parks got crowded. I was glad we were able to salvage the major portion of our trip. I never realized how bumpy and hilly the parks are, we usually are park-commandoes.

The worst part of our trip was when we went on Soarin'. The first part was when a CM came strolling through the waiting queue and told us to tighten up the line when we were maybe 6 feet from the next group in front of us. Well, the reason we had stopped was because we were at a flat part of the line and wanted to rest without having to put the brakes on and since we were all kind of new we were trying really hard not to run into other people's feet. That was the first not so fun thing. Then we were asking the CMs as we came up to them at the boarding areas(A/B/C) if we could wait for front-row. Everyone just looked at us like we had two heads and ignored us. The last CM we encountered brought me to tears. She actually stuck *her* hand IN FRONT OF MY FACE. As my spouse & child both remarked, the CM never would have done that if I had been standing up. We weren't in anyone's way, there weren't CMs or other Guests around us, but this CM felt compelled to NOT speak to us as a group, but rather just HAD to stick her hand in front of me, the person in the wheelchair. She also then ordered us to get up against the wall, when *again* there were NO other people around us. We've been on the ride before, on other trips, we know how the waiting area works. She could have asked us to stop and we wouldn't have had a problem. I really just wanted to be on the front-row because I was thinking that this would be my only chance to ride Soarin this trip.

I didn't lose it at the moment (even though I was pretty upset), but waited until the ride was over. We went to that little desk near where the waiting queue starts and asked for the ride supervisor.

We spoke to him and I assure all of you, that CM will *never* have the temerity to be so rude again.

agnes!

 

[KPeveler]

OP here, bolding is mine, while the longer wait is not fair to you how is it fair to me to wait longer if you get on sooner? Everyone should wait the same time period IMO. Maybe your wait would have been shorter if abusers didn't take a place in the handicap line. And for anyone to say the abuse isn't rampant they must live in a fantasy world. Why else would parks have to crack down? FWIW the only abuse I've seen is at Disney. As for bathroom waits well abusers don't take the ECV's/WC's into RR they get off their butts and walk yup seen it and the fight over who gets to ride now when they return!!! Had a co worker who went to Disney 5 months pregnant healthy as a horse got a wheel chair so she didn't have to walk or wait in line because "it's hot in Florida in Auggust". Came back and said they were loaded right on all rides no waits she had a great time. Sickening. As for children with Autism few actually have autism it is the Disease of the day just like ADD/ADHD was in the 90's. Everyone and their brother has a kid who has autism or is "on the spectrum". For those who truly have it I am sorry but again people want an excuse for their childrens undiscilpined behaviour and it's become the "disease of the day" there for discounting those poor children that do actually have it.

i did not say it was fair to you. actually, that was me pointing out that life is not fair. i cannot control when CMs tell me to get on the ride. they have to manage more than wait times. They also have to make sure that there are only a certain number of people with disabilities who can be on a ride at a time. if there is an "opening" they may need to put someone on to prevent a back up...

and i want to add that i DO think we should all wait the same amount of time. my point was that life doesnt always work out that way, but it pretty much evens out in the end

if you're waiting for life to be fair (general you, no one specific) you're going to be pretty disappointed.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

OP here, bolding is mine, while the longer wait is not fair to you how is it fair to me to wait longer if you get on sooner? Everyone should wait the same time period IMO. Maybe your wait would have been shorter if abusers didn't take a place in the handicap line.

OK, please tell me, how do you propose to make the wait on every ride exactly the same for me as you? For some rides I'll need to board at the exit, so that I come back to my wheelchair at the end. Are you going to come round to the exit with me? The Safari ride can only have so many people with mobility problems in the animal enclosures at any one time, for safety reasons. Should all the able-bods have to wait the same amount of time? As K said, life isn't always fair, and I think Disney does a blooming good job trying to give all of us a chance. I'm sorry, I've tried to keep my temper in this thread, but you can't call for it to be 'fair' for you, whilst waving away any 'unfairness' towards us! That is not the way 'fair' works.

The first day of our most recent WDW trip I quite spectacularly broke (at least) one (and maybe another?) toe. Even though I could walk for short distances the wheelchair we rented was a true godsend. I was supposed to stay off of the broken toe/s(?) and that would have been hard without the wheelchair. And yes, we utilised a GAC for the first and hopefully only time. The amount of time it took to get up and down all those hills in MK and Epcot...took us forever to get anywhere, especially when the parks got crowded. I was glad we were able to salvage the major portion of our trip. I never realized how bumpy and hilly the parks are, we usually are park-commandoes.

The worst part of our trip was when we went on Soarin'. The first part was when a CM came strolling through the waiting queue and told us to tighten up the line when we were maybe 6 feet from the next group in front of us. Well, the reason we had stopped was because we were at a flat part of the line and wanted to rest without having to put the brakes on and since we were all kind of new we were trying really hard not to run into other people's feet. That was the first not so fun thing. Then we were asking the CMs as we came up to them at the boarding areas(A/B/C) if we could wait for front-row. Everyone just looked at us like we had two heads and ignored us. The last CM we encountered brought me to tears. She actually stuck *her* hand IN FRONT OF MY FACE. As my spouse & child both remarked, the CM never would have done that if I had been standing up. We weren't in anyone's way, there weren't CMs or other Guests around us, but this CM felt compelled to NOT speak to us as a group, but rather just HAD to stick her hand in front of me, the person in the wheelchair. She also then ordered us to get up against the wall, when *again* there were NO other people around us. We've been on the ride before, on other trips, we know how the waiting area works. She could have asked us to stop and we wouldn't have had a problem. I really just wanted to be on the front-row because I was thinking that this would be my only chance to ride Soarin this trip.

I didn't lose it at the moment (even though I was pretty upset), but waited until the ride was over. We went to that little desk near where the waiting queue starts and asked for the ride supervisor.

We spoke to him and I assure all of you, that CM will *never* have the temerity to be so rude again.

agnes!

I'm so so sorry you had such an awful experience when you had to use wheels. Please let me assure you that most CMs go out of their way to help all guests, including those of us on wheels, and that you met the exception to the rule. I hope it didn't spoil your trip for you too much, and that you were still able to have fun while on wheels

 

[KPeveler]

You have some serious problems aside from any handicap you may have. I'd seek help if I were you. Anyway we're all for EQUAL access not priority access since people have taken to abusing the system to gain the priority access. You should be able to ride just like anyone else however the system is ripe for abuse and thats what happens and angers the rest of us. If it were simply people with true disabilitites I'd be fine with that but it's a bunch of lazy no good people taking advantage anf getting away with it. If it were'nt priority people wouldn't abuse.

i think you are grossly overestimating the number of people who abuse the system, and i have yet to find a system out there that does not hurt the disabled more than help them. i am now NEVER going to six flags or knotts or hershey... disney does a wonderful job...

really, except for buses, which i do not ride, so i cannot speak to... how have people in scooters ACTUALLY affected you. exactly how many minutes longer have you had to wait while a person in a wheelchair gets onto a ride? exactly in what way was your enjoyment of disney hampered? and i do not want to hear about rude people in ECVs, because i can tell you about a dozen stories about rude people who walk... i want to know exactly how you have been hurt by these "rampant abusers"... and how you can tell that I am not an abuser?

 

[freckles and boo]

As for children with Autism few actually have autism it is the Disease of the day just like ADD/ADHD was in the 90's. Everyone and their brother has a kid who has autism or is "on the spectrum". For those who truly have it I am sorry but again people want an excuse for their childrens undisciplined behaviour and it's become the "disease of the day" there for discounting those poor children that do actually have it.

I have stayed out of this for a while because I think people were getting emotional and irrational. This, however, suggests you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[LolaCola]

OP here, bolding is mine, while the longer wait is not fair to you how is it fair to me to wait longer if you get on sooner? Everyone should wait the same time period IMO. Maybe your wait would have been shorter if abusers didn't take a place in the handicap line. And for anyone to say the abuse isn't rampant they must live in a fantasy world. Why else would parks have to crack down? FWIW the only abuse I've seen is at Disney. As for bathroom waits well abusers don't take the ECV's/WC's into RR they get off their butts and walk yup seen it and the fight over who gets to ride now when they return!!! Had a co worker who went to Disney 5 months pregnant healthy as a horse got a wheel chair so she didn't have to walk or wait in line because "it's hot in Florida in Auggust". Came back and said they were loaded right on all rides no waits she had a great time. Sickening. As for children with Autism few actually have autism it is the Disease of the day just like ADD/ADHD was in the 90's. Everyone and their brother has a kid who has autism or is "on the spectrum". For those who truly have it I am sorry but again people want an excuse for their childrens undisciplined behaviour and it's become the "disease of the day" there for discounting those poor children that do actually have it.

To quote your own post in a word, "Sickening."

Please, if I am mistaken and and you have any shred of educational training, background or evidence to back this up, please let me know. Otherwise, please do not speak of things you know not.

It'll save on a LOT of hurt feelings to say the least.

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

I have stayed out of this for a while because I think people were getting emotional and irrational. This, however, suggests you have no clue what you are talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about. We have 322 students in our school 87 are put at "autistic" or "on the spectrum" I have a cousin who is truly autistic and I'll tell you 3/4 of these other kids are not even close. Around here it's the "DOTD" even the School Nurse says so.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Anyway we're all for EQUAL access not priority access since people have taken to abusing the system to gain the priority access. You should be able to ride just like anyone else however the system is ripe for abuse and thats what happens and angers the rest of us. If it were simply people with true disabilitites I'd be fine with that but it's a bunch of lazy no good people taking advantage anf getting away with it. If it were'nt priority people wouldn't abuse.

How can you tell who is abusing the system and who isn't? What gives you the right to decide whether I am 'worthy' of getting wheelchair access to a ride, or am just lazy?!

i think you are grossly overestimating the number of people who abuse the system, and i have yet to find a system out there that does not hurt the disabled more than help them. i am now NEVER going to six flags or knotts or hershey... disney does a wonderful job...

really, except for buses, which i do not ride, so i cannot speak to... how have people in scooters ACTUALLY affected you. exactly how many minutes longer have you had to wait while a person in a wheelchair gets onto a ride? exactly in what way was your enjoyment of disney hampered? and i do not want to hear about rude people in ECVs, because i can tell you about a dozen stories about rude people who walk... i want to know exactly how you have been hurt by these "rampant abusers"... and how you can tell that I am not an abuser?

Well said, K

As for children with Autism few actually have autism it is the Disease of the day just like ADD/ADHD was in the 90's. Everyone and their brother has a kid who has autism or is "on the spectrum". For those who truly have it I am sorry but again people want an excuse for their childrens undisciplined behaviour and it's become the "disease of the day" there for discounting those poor children that do actually have it.

I have stayed out of this for a while because I think people were getting emotional and irrational. This, however, suggests you have no clue what you are talking about.

OK, I hadn't seen this bit before! Now I'm getting just a little bit scared. Yes, there are more diagnoses of Autism nowedays, it's because people understand the condition better. There are also more diagnoses of Fibromyalgia, does that mean that I'm faking it?!

 

[freckles and boo]

I do know what I'm talking about. We have 322 students in our school 87 are put at "autistic" or "on the spectrum" I have a cousin who is truly autistic and I'll tell you 3/4 of these other kids are not even close. Around here it's the "DOTD" even the School Nurse says so.

So your cousin is the yardstick by which all children are to be measured? Good to know. Thanks.