Lower than low resales...

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Sorry it took so long to post a reply - I was driving around looking for a bloody car crash to pathetically gawk at.

Anyway, I'm afraid the math of most people here just doesn't add up.

I understand that SSR is clearly bigger than all of the other DVC resorts. But that doesn't mean it should have any more, or less, availability than the other resorts – IF it were equally appealing as the other resorts. That's because in theory all of us BWV, BCV, VWL, AKV owners would be trying to stay at SSR, as much as the SSR owners are trying to get in at the other resorts.

But that's clearly not happening, and never will. For example, most VWL owners would not want to trade a week at their pristine, lake-side woodsy resort to stay at a ridiculously big condo complex where busy roads and unsightly parking lots cut through the entire property. Or where walking at night through pitch-black darkness, a quarter mile from the main resort building, makes you feel anything but "Disney Safe."

Personally I tried staying SSR once and was very disheartened that a simple walk to the pool involved dodging cars, inhaling bus fumes and cutting through a sea of parking lots. Want to go the pool at BWV? It may involve a long walk through the hallway, but you certainly don't have to worry about your kids getting whacked by a bus.

If Saratoga's engineers were to have simply placed all of the parking lots on the perimeter of the property (like Port Orleans) they could have created a beautiful park-like setting on the inside of the resort. And, in the process, pushed all of the buildings closer together to make walking around more manageable. It's not the proximity to the theme parks that makes DVC's other resorts so much more desirable. It's SSR's sprawling unmanageable size, and unresort-like atmosphere that's the problem.

Now, I understand there are some SSR fans here, and that's great - I don't begrudge your personal taste. I'm referring only to the lopsided demand between SSR and all of the other DVC properties, and the problems this will create in the long run for everyone who owns a membership.

Want to make reservations for spring break one week in advance? You can - at SSR (I know did). Want to make reservations for spring break six months in advance at VWL? Good luck.

If DVC wanted to build a mega property like SSR then they owed it to all of us to make it as desirable as possible. They didn't.

Instead they cut corners by trying to use the existing infrastructure of the Disney Institute, which was never designed to support an epic-size resort like this. DVC is profitable enough where they could have started from scratch and created a hub-and-spoke layout where all of the buildings are an equal distance from the main resort, and where the parking lots are pushed to the perimeter.

DVC Management opted to save a little money in the short-term, and now we're all paying a big price for it in the long run.
 
My least favorite resort is BWV. I hedge this a bit as I have not stayed there, but I have been on the boardwalk numerous times. While I like the boardwalk, I think that it would be way to noisy for a relaxing vacation. I reserve the right to change that opinion if I ever stay there.

Why bother to comment on a resort if you haven't even stayed there yet? Comment on facts you know, like decor (I'm sure you've seen pictures) or location. Other than that, it is just your opinion, like everyone else's comments here.

I hate threads that pit one resort over another. I love the fact that Disney has many different resorts in which to choose from, providing hopefully a different experience with each resort. I am excited to try them all...would I buy at some, no. But that is just my preference, doesn't mean there is something WRONG with the resort.
 
I think we are getting off track of OP's original point. I certainly do not think it has anything to do with the quality, location or lack of "Disney Safeness" at SSR that make it look like people are dumping their points. I think it is quantity of memberships at SSR not quality. If I am going to purchase a resale from Seller A it would have to be a better deal than Seller B hence lower point price. It would be interesting to know the actual percentage of memberships vs resales on market for all the resorts to see where they all stand.
 
I hate threads about people who hate threads about hating a specific resort.

After all, it's just your opinion.
 

I'm not sure we're off topic to the original post.

Wasn't the point to consider reasons why the SSR resales are coming in at a painfully low price point?

Couldn't the lack of appeal of this resort have to do with the overall lack of demand at SSR?

You know, "supply-and-demand" and stuff.
 
I purchases SSR after studing everything. I purchased here because I rarely book at 11 months, usually more like 6 months out and do not travel during holiday periods and so it did not matter what resort I owned at. Home resort priority was not key to me. with that, I could pick up a reasonable resale and the dues are one of the lowest. I know that this goes against the buy where you want to stay motto, but it made the most sense.
 
Your opinion--nothing more.

Sales statistics suggest that buyers continued to favor SSR over AKV while the two were being sold simultaneously. Numbers available in this post:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=21231201

SSR continued to out-sell AKV for the first 7 months both were selling concurrently.



13 million points available at SSR and there are currently 20,000 on the resale market. Not exactly a "sky is falling" scenario. :rotfl:

Prices for SSR resales are also trending similarly to all other resorts. Examine the information here:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=27741118&postcount=40

According to that chart, SSR resale averages have dropped from a high of $85 per point to $80 per point over the last two years. Over that same period BCV went from $95 to $91. VWL went from $85 to $81. BWV went from $86 to $83.

The fact that SSR dropped $1 per point more than other resorts doesn't exactly speak to any widespread panic. And, as expected, looking at the extremes (the $71 contract which started this thread) doesn't even come close to telling an accurate story.

The volume of resales is high, but for a resort that's just coming off 5 years of active sales I don't find it particularly shocking. AKV has only sold and closed on 120-some rooms at Jambo, yet they have 18 resales on the market. In fact, that ratio is worse than the 824 units / 118 resales for SSR. ;)



Your assumptions are entirely incorrect.

The points DVC is giving out are "Developer's Points". Developer's Points originate with contracts that are owned (unsold) by the developer (i.e. Disney Vacation Development.)

The reason DVC has Developer's Points available at SSR is because they finished construction in June 2007 and spent another 10-12 months selling the remainder of the points. During those months DVD/DVC held the contracts and can do whatever they wish with the points from the '06/07/08 Use Years. In this case they chose to offer the points as a sales incentive.

Kidani Village will be complete by this time next year, yet will probably be selling for another year or two beyond that. At that point it's very likely we will see similar incentives offering AKV Developer's Points to new buyers.



Doubt it. If anything, we've already seen the worst of it.

Right now SSR represents about 37% of all DVC rooms at WDW. That's been the percentage for over a year now. By September '09 Kidani and BLT will be open and that percentage will drop to 29%. Plus the Treehouse Villas will open and add greater appeal to SSR.

SSR will continue to be a smaller and smaller percentage of all DVC rooms and satisfaction among owners is likely to increase. They'll not only have their own Home to book at 11 months--including the Treehouse Villas--but will have more destinations to choose from 7 months out.

Don't bother feeding the toll, folks. We've been down this road before. :happytv:

Totally agree with all these statements here. So nice to read some "factual" information instead of opinion. Yes, lets not feed the toll? (or is that troll?):rotfl:
 
ok, fwiw, here are the average asking prices for resales listed at The Timeshare Store (all are per point, VB and HH excluded):

OKW 73.06
SSR 78.92
VWL 80.30
BWV 84.08
BCV 92.80
AKV 94.30
 
Blood thirsty troll if you're reading all of the posts...

Yes, the low price point and constant high availability at SSR are not facts - just my opinion.

Well said...
 
Thanks for the ciphering John.

It will be interesting to see if SSR - newer than VWL, BC and BW - will manage to rebound or continue its slide.
 
Wow, now you're even coming after me? Let me offer a few things...

1. I was actually being helpful, knowing that you were going to get torched.

2. I don't own at SSR and am not seeking to own at SSR. That said, I may change my desire at any time and I respect the SSR owners for their opinions of what is good about SSR. If they like it, why should I try to tell them not to like it.

3. As for my personal opinion, I read through your posts carefully and agree with some of the cons you mention of SSR. Once again, I respect that SSR owners see the good in it and I don't want to personally bash it.

4. I thought about what would be worse...going to a much older resort and seeing that it is very dated and not so clean with amenities and layout that I really like or going to a newer resort that is clean with amenities and layout that were just OK. Assume (for a moment) that OKW is the former and SSR is the latter...I think I am buying at SSR. I just can't stand the idea of walking into a room that has some peeling paint or dirty microwave that cannot be cleaned better due to its age.

As you have already proven to be a complete know-it-all and have offended and criticized enough people before me, I don't feel the need to fire back at you. You'll get enough of what you deserve without me telling you what I think of you or where you live.:sad2:
 
I purchases SSR after studing everything. I purchased here because I rarely book at 11 months, usually more like 6 months out and do not travel during holiday periods and so it did not matter what resort I owned at. Home resort priority was not key to me. with that, I could pick up a reasonable resale and the dues are one of the lowest. I know that this goes against the buy where you want to stay motto, but it made the most sense.
Then I assume you bought SSR due to price and expiration date in comparison to other retail sales. I think many others did the same. And price is one of the reasons that SSR has continued to sell as well as it has.

Tim, I'll point out that will SSR may only be around a third of the DVC rooms at WDW, the points from there vying at the 7 month window are likely (my estimation) 75-80% of the total from WDW resorts. Even then, much of those 20-25% of points for the other resorts are looking for other high demand resorts or lower costs, no specifically SSR or OKW, there are exceptions of course. While Brian's style has been somewhat abrasive, he does have some valid points though I think he's overshot the mark by quite a bit. The real question to me is why was SSR less than some of the 2042 resorts to start with. I think the answer is a combination of number of contracts available and lower demand for ownership there comparatively. I think the answer to the recent decrease across the board is a combo of the economic times and to some degree, the shorter contract length of some resorts. Had the demand been the same I would have expected SSR to pick up $1-2 on the other resorts instead of losing ground.
 
I just visited the Timeshare Store site and saw Saratoga resales going for as low as 71$/point.:eek: Not sure how that would make me feel if I owned at SSR!!!

If you purchased DVC as an "investment" (not ever a good idea), it probably doesn't make you feel too good. On the other hand, if you purchased DVC as a pre-paid vacation plan and have, or still are, using it as such, you probably don't care what resale values are.

Let's face it, unless you are selling, resale values don't mean a thing.
 
Easy Dudley. These boards are just a little too serious for a Mickey Mouse discussion group. I'm sure Plainfield is very nice - I'm a Chicago suburban boy myself.

And again, I'm not begrudging people's fondness for any resort. But if the discussion is centering on theories surrounding the low pricing and high availability of a new resort, I think we can all venture some pretty good guesses.

Fact is SSR - which is much newer than BCV, BWV and VWL, and offers more years of membership - is commanding substantially less in resale. Not to mention the fact it always seems to have availabilities. Which you can't say for those other properties.

So it begs the question of "what's wrong with this brand new resort?" Offering up theories doesn't make me a know-it-all, nor the owners dummies. It simply calls DVC's competence into question more than anything.
 
Plainfield, huh?

I can see how SSR could look appealing...

Well I think that was downright tacky. Im not even an Il native, but the people of Plainfield are to be commended for rebuilding their community.
Total insensitivity and shameful that you actually live in the same state.:sad2:
 
Anyway, I'm afraid the math of most people here just doesn't add up.

Which math would that be? Myself and other seem to be poking holes in your theories left and right, yet you've failed to respond those posts while changing your arguments.

I understand that SSR is clearly bigger than all of the other DVC resorts. But that doesn't mean it should have any more, or less, availability than the other resorts...

Sure it does--and yes it's simply by virtue of its size.

Example: Let's assume that both BCV and SSR are 50% booked by their owners before the 11 month mark. That means there are roughly 100 unbooked rooms at BCV and 400 at SSR. Even with equal demand from 350,000 DVC members, BCV will clearly fill up quicker. Add 100 more reservations to BCV and it's full. 100 more at SSR leaves 300 vacancies.

Look, I'm not going to pretend that members are booking SSR at the same rate as BCV. But you really don't have ANY data to back up your claims here.

When you booked a room at SSR on a week's notice (as noted later in the post), you have no idea whether there were 200 rooms left or if you got the last one. For all we know you may have gotten that room only because of a cancellation earlier in the day--before that they may have been booked solid for 3 months. You are simply guessing...based upon a single experience, no less.

And--by the way--you weren't going to get VWL one week out for spring break with or without SSR.

We all get that you don't like SSR. But that is YOUR problem. Not mine...not DVCs. Resorts aren't going to be all-things to all-people. That's what makes the variety of the program so appealing.

And none of what you have said really supports the theory that people are selling SSR points in droves to buy elsewhere.

(More personal bias deleted for space)

Now, I understand there are some SSR fans here, and that's great - I don't begrudge your personal taste.

[sarcasm]Oh, no...of course not. [/sarcasm]

Clearly you are being very tolerant and understanding of others' opinions while making comments like "ridiculously big condo complex", "unsightly parking lots", "unsafe", "sprawling", "unmanageable", and let's not forget the comments about children getting run over by buses. That happens on a daily basis, right? :rolleyes1

I'm referring only to the lopsided demand between SSR and all of the other DVC properties, and the problems this will create in the long run for everyone who owns a membership.

Want to make reservations for spring break one week in advance? You can - at SSR (I know did). Want to make reservations for spring break six months in advance at VWL? Good luck.

You couldn't care less about "everyone who owns a membership." All you care about is how changes to the program have impacted you personally.

One factor that's been omitted from this discussion thus far is the reality that members have gotten much smarter over the last decade. People are booking their trips much further in advance. SSR has little--if anything--to do with that. After all, SSR owners can't even get into BCV, BWV, etc until 7 months out. Fear of losing a reservation to an SSR owner has absolutely nothing to do with why people were booking day-by-day.

Another more recent phenomenon is buying small add-ons at resorts to get that 11-month booking window on a recurring basis. Gone are the days when people were content purchasing an oodle of BWV points and using them at OKW, BCV, VWL, etc. Instead, members have secured add-ons at the resorts they wish to visit.

The net result is an increase in 11 month bookings and reduced availability on short notice.

If DVC wanted to build a mega property like SSR then they owed it to all of us to make it as desirable as possible. They didn't.

No, they really didn't owe you that.

What they owe you is the 4-month booking priority at your Home resort. Use that and you'll never, ever, EVER have a problem.
 
The real question to me is why was SSR less than some of the 2042 resorts to start with. I think the answer is a combination of number of contracts available and lower demand for ownership there comparatively. I think the answer to the recent decrease across the board is a combo of the economic times and to some degree, the shorter contract length of some resorts. Had the demand been the same I would have expected SSR to pick up $1-2 on the other resorts instead of losing ground.

I agree with you there.

My take is that the SSR resale pricing was pretty much in line while it was actively being sold. Back in '06 the net price was around $90-92 per point, so prices in the low-to-mid $80s resale are to be expected.

But once SSR went into sold out status and the incentives were removed, the marketplace should have responded with an increase in price. But as you said, the economy and pure volume of SSR contracts are keeping things down.

The other area we could point fingers is toward DVC for selling more aggressively and (arguably) to more people who shouldn't have bought in the first place. Correct me if I'm wrong but prior to SSR/AVK buyers had to come up with a full 20% down payment. Now they are applying incentives to a 10% down payment, meaning people can get in the door for as little as $500. That policy change clearly pre-qualifies many more people than 5-6 years ago.

IMO, if it were AKV that just sold out instead of SSR, I believe the scenario would be playing out in a similar fashion. While still smaller than SSR, AKV is still quite a bit larger than BWV, BCV and VWL. Many contracts...many unqualified buyers...poor economy. Not a great combination for those who were expecting growth.
 
The other area we could point fingers is toward DVC for selling more aggressively and (arguably) to more people who shouldn't have bought in the first place. Correct me if I'm wrong but prior to SSR/AVK buyers had to come up with a full 20% down payment. Now they are applying incentives to a 10% down payment, meaning people can get in the door for as little as $500. That policy change clearly pre-qualifies many more people than 5-6 years ago.
DVC has had a 10% down options for some time, certainly as long as I've been around DVC starting in 1994. I'm not personally aware of anytime when it was 20% only or more but there may be times when it was and I'm not aware of it. I don't think SSR is truly sold out though I know some guides have told members that recently. Maybe it happened and I don't recall, has DVC declared it sold out officially? Of course the THV will alter that regardless. DVC has a history of declaring resorts sold out that were not, VWL and HH come to mind. Certainly SSR was never on the same pricing level as AKV so it's hard to compare on that front.
 
Fact is SSR - which is much newer than BCV, BWV and VWL, and offers more years of membership - is commanding substantially less in resale. Not to mention the fact it always seems to have availabilities. Which you can't say for those other properties.

THANK YOU!!! Now can everyone just hug and make up. :hug:
 
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