LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Planogirl]

I agree:

Offsite 1

Value 3

Mod 4

Deluxe 5

There's no way that Disney would chance upsetting offsite visitors by being this unfair. Sure they want to sell their rooms but also their food and souvenirs and tours and parking and so on. It adds up.

This is where critical thinking breaks down. The rooster crows when the sun comes up. So the rooster made the sun come up.
FP+ in its current form has been around for less than a year. People book their vacations well in advance. What percentage of people do you really think came to WDW between May, 2014 and today specifically because Disney implemented FP+? And don't forget that DLR, which does not use FP+, has seen parallel attendance growth. No. FP+ is not a reason for increased attendance. Not yet, anyway.

As for having an incentive to change things, that all depends on feedback. Don't lose sight of the fact that the vast, vast majority of people who have used FP+ have used it exactly once so far. It is the Dis'ers who go 4 times a year. So if the guests who have been to WDW over the past 6-8 months are being surveyed and they have suggestions for Disney on how to improve the system, then, yes, Disney does have an incentive to change things. Leave everyone who is posting here out of the equation for a moment. Leave all Dis'ers out of the equation for a moment. Assume that the person who used FP+ in July or December, 2014 booked their vacation 6-8 months in advance and has not returned since their last visit. We have absolutely nothing to base a conclusion on that said people love (or hate) FP+. We have no way of knowing if, when asked in a survey, they told Disney that they would like to see changes made. One cannot leap to the conclusion that record attendance in 2014 is proof, in and of itself, that the vast majority of guests are happy. And there is nothing to prove that they are angry. We just have to concede that so far, we know nothing.

I love that. Simple and it gets to the point.

And this we can agree on.

So when I hear these reports of anger in the parks and the gloom and doom of wait till this, or that or the other thing that's on the horizon, my response is....nothing yet. Haven't seen a thing to make me think there's a problem. I'm not saying FP+ is causing an increase in attendance- I'm saying more people are coming, despite the fact they know up front the changes that are made. Why they're coming, I have no idea other than they want to.
They may not have experienced it in the park, but they know it's here. They know what they're having to do up front, long before they get there and in plenty of time to cancel. Surely you wouldn't say that one can't actually understand how fp+ works if they haven't actually tried it, would you?

And so if it's as you say,there hasn't been enough time, we certainly can't expect that Disney will come in and make a huge change to how their system currently works. Why would they? The fact that "you" don't like the way it works for "you" does not equate to a failure on Disney's part. This supposed need to revamp and re-work it to make it a success assumes that it's a failure and we don't know that and we have nothing concrete to even lead us in that direction.

I would argue that way more people are clueless about FP+ than we give credit for. I deal with the public every day and I'll just add that the saying about leading the horse to water is very, very true. Only time will tell how all of this goes over.

 

[JimmyV]

You misunderstood-what I was asking was did you think that meant one does not have to actually experience FP+ in order to decide if they like it or if it works for them, not did they understand the nuts and bolts.

Maybe there are too many negatives in the question. If the question is: "Does one have to use FP+ before they can decide that they don't like it?", the answer is: "Not necessarily". If one is a park commando and rides TSMM, RnR and ToT repeatedly, grabbing 6 or 7 FPs a day for those rides, and that person is told of how FP+ now works, that person could form an opinion before actually using it. The "Yes, I didn't ride headliners as frequently as I once did, but I found other ways to enjoy WDW" approach may not apply to that person. And they could figure that out in advance of actually using it. But as a general rule, I am a believer that one should judge from experience and not supposition. I was "lucky". My first exposure and use of FP+ came just as they retired the FP- machines. So I got the first-hand experience . Fortunately, much of what I experienced that first time has been adjusted. Despite the fact that the parks were experiencing record attendance whilst the new system was put in place. So it is true that even if the parks are experiencing record attendance, change can result when the reaction is so overwhelmingly negative. Say what you will about FP+ 2.0. FP+ 1.0 was a disaster and Disney heard about it loud and clear. And to their credit, they made changes. Record attendance or not.

 

[cakebaker]

If FP+ is a failure, it is certainly not showing on Disneys bottom line. Considering that a lot of the detractors are also here to plan their next WDW vacation, I would have to say Disney- 1, FP detractors- 0. If we were keeping score, that is.

I also think that the opinion (and that is all it is) that most people dislike FP + on this specific message board is not based on fact.

My opinion on the percentage of people on this board who don't like fp+ is undoubtedly clouded by the viewpoint I am almost always "discussing" the issue with.

I will say that I read an awful lot of posts from people who are new to fp+, be it a complete newbie or just one who never tried fp+, who came back very pleased with their trip. How many times do we see posts that start out, " I was very nervous" or "I was apprehensive" but... happens a lot.

 

[cakebaker]

"There's no way that Disney would chance upsetting offsite visitors by being this unfair. Sure they want to sell their rooms but also their food and souvenirs and tours and parking and so on. It adds up."

And this was my objection- that plan ticks off everyone- well except maybe those staying in the deluxes, and maybe even them.

There aren't many details there- is that per room? Per person? Is it per day? Does it remove the 60 day window for on site? Because that alone will raise the ire of the very guests Disney is claiming they're trying to court- the on site guest.

But I agree, they are not going to alienate their off site guests to the point of driving them away. Neither are they going to tick off the on site guests at the less expensive resorts. They could've done that years ago and never chose to make any distinction between resort levels.

 

[Planogirl]

"There's no way that Disney would chance upsetting offsite visitors by being this unfair. Sure they want to sell their rooms but also their food and souvenirs and tours and parking and so on. It adds up."

And this was my objection- that plan ticks off everyone- well except maybe those staying in the deluxes, and maybe even them.

There aren't many details there- is that per room? Per person? Is it per day? Does it remove the 60 day window for on site? Because that alone will raise the ire of the very guests Disney is claiming they're trying to court- the on site guest.

But I agree, they are not going to alienate their off site guests to the point of driving them away. Neither are they going to tick off the on site guests at the less expensive resorts. They could've done that years ago and never chose to make any distinction between resort levels.

Actually I think that they are more likely to offer more to higher resort levels than take away things from offsite visitors. Those higher priced resorts are clearly the hardest to fill and it wouldn't surprise me if something was done to lure more people. But only time will tell. (As I keep saying and saying. )

 

[erc]

I haven't read this entire thread but one thing that I changed my mind about was my positive expectation for getting a 4th FastPass after using your third FastPass. Maybe it works better if your 3rd FastPass window was finished before 3PM. If you ride your 3rd FastPass attraction after 3PM, you most likely won't be able to get another FP until 7PM or later.

Also, the total number of FastPasses alloted per hour window seem to be more than I expected such that the FastPass line might take 10 or 15 minutes to get through. This happened with Buzz Lightyear and BTMR.

These observations were on level 9 and 8 days.

Overall we were still able to do what we wanted and it seemed that nearly everyone in the park understood the FastPass+ process and were utilizing it for attractions that were important to them.

But I will never understand the people that get into the end of a standby line with a posted wait time of 180 minutes.

 

[SmithSmith]

Actually I think that they are more likely to offer more to higher resort levels than take away things from offsite visitors. Those higher priced resorts are clearly the hardest to fill and it wouldn't surprise me if something was done to lure more people. But only time will tell. (As I keep saying and saying. )

I don't know if this is an anomaly but I just checked availibilty of the different resort categories for tomorrow night, and this what I found:

Value resorts: 4 out of 5 had availability
Moderate resorts: 3 out of 5 had availability
Deluxe: 2 out of 8 had availability

Clearly, the deluxe were the easiest to fill.

 

[jollygreen]

I've only had one experience with FP+, and it was great. I went during the first week of August and had a great experience with it. This was my first trip to Disney and I didn't know much about FP+ and neither did the friend I went with, so we ended up making our FP+ selections about 30 days before we left. We were able to get FPs for 7DMT, Splash Mountain, and Space Mountain all by 1pm. Rode several other things between those. Got a 4th FP for HM at 3pm. Hopped over to HS, got a FP for Star Tours and also rode ToT and RnR. Hopped back to MK and got a FP for Buzz. The only bad part was getting the FP for Buzz, had to wait about 30min at a kiosk for that. The rest of it went smoothly. And the next day we were at AK and got FPs for EE, Safari, and River Rapids by noon. Rode other things in between. Hopped to Epcot and got a FP for Spaceship Earth. So in two days we got 10 FPs, pretty happy with that. I'm going back again in December, hoping it will go smoothly again. As of now, I really like FP+.

 

[cakebaker]

I don't know if this is an anomaly but I just checked availibilty of the different resort categories for tomorrow night, and this what I found:

Value resorts: 4 out of 5 had availability
Moderate resorts: 3 out of 5 had availability
Deluxe: 2 out of 8 had availability

Clearly, the deluxe were the easiest to fill.

I have no idea if they're having trouble filling the deluxes. I know it's a common point here, but I've never seen anything that actually shows whether that's true or not. I know they allocated some to DVC and I read here that it's proof that Deluxes aren't being filled, but again, never have seen anything that actually shows that either.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't know if this is an anomaly but I just checked availibilty of the different resort categories for tomorrow night, and this what I found:

Value resorts: 4 out of 5 had availability
Moderate resorts: 3 out of 5 had availability
Deluxe: 2 out of 8 had availability

Clearly, the deluxe were the easiest to fill.

I think Deluxe offers less rooms by resort. So that could be why they are filled.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think Deluxe offers less rooms by resort. So that could be why they are filled.

It's also a 1/2 marathon weekend. As best as I can tell from some of the runDisney threads over in the W.I.S.H/Events & Competitions forum, Deluxes are popular resorts on Marathon weekends. I think runDisney weekends are anomalies in general compared to other weekends as hotel rooms go, because runners want to stay at host resorts for the run transportation. A friend of mine is running the 1/2 Marathon tonight, and her room was originally booked at Caribbean Beach. When she arrived they upgraded her to AKL because they overbooked Caribbean Beach (which, depending on how much they overbooked, could also be assisting in filling the Deluxes).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's also a 1/2 marathon weekend. As best as I can tell from some of the runDisney threads over in the W.I.S.H/Events & Competitions forum, Deluxes are popular resorts on Marathon weekends. I think runDisney weekends are anomalies in general compared to other weekends as hotel rooms go, because runners want to stay at host resorts for the run transportation. A friend of mine is running the 1/2 Marathon tonight, and her room was originally booked at Caribbean Beach. When she arrived they upgraded her to AKL because they overbooked Caribbean Beach (which, depending on how much they overbooked, could also be assisting in filling the Deluxes).

Very good points. I concur that marathon weekend may have something to do with it.

 

[whiporee]

The majority of guests come from off site.

I don't think that's true. TEA estimates Disney had 50.1 million visitors in 2013. They have roughly 30,000 rooms at 3.2 people a room and have reported at least 85 percent occupancy. Those numbers suggest that roughly 30 million of the 50 million were on-site guests.

 

[MrInfinity]

Even the most strident lover of all things FP+ wouldn't object to the idea of getting an additional FP provided that the system and crowd levels could support same. One could love FP+ with their entire heart and soul, and if WDW announced that the new number of guaranteed FPs was being upped to 4 in slower months, not a single one of these lovers would start a thread here titled: "OMG. Disney just added a 4th FP. This is a terrible idea!!!"
So I am not sure why cakebaker feels compelled to shoot down a suggested improvement.

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. If two people could play chess -- and both win -- wouldn't that be great? Heh. Unfortunately, for every person you give a 4th to, you are taking a ride away from someone else. So it is not as simple as... well, let's give everyone 12! Couldn't you say that no guest would be unhappy with getting 12? Of course! Let's give each guest 50. 50 Fast Passes. Who would be unhappy w that. If only such suggestions were feasible.

I don't think so. We can only absorb what we experience. My experience? When waiting in kiosk lines, the overwhelming sentiment was that people felt that 3 FPs was too few, and that having to wait in kiosk lines in order to bypass Standby lines was rather pointless. I am not saying that many or any of these people were shouting from the rooftops that they hated FP+.

And I would conclude, when waiting in line at the grocery store, the overwhelming sentiment was that people needed to buy groceries. Of course these people felt 3 was too few. They're in line for a 4th! You are clearly not representative of the average guest, you are in line w guests who are there for the same reason as you.

Remember the average guest did not pull many if any FP-'s, and now, does not try to get in lines for extra FP+'s. The people going to kiosks now, are the same people who... want more... and know that they can try to get more by going to the kiosks. Problem is, since now, pretty much every guest in the park already got to pick 3 FPs, there are none left at the kiosk. So sure. You go to the kiosk, you are among company that was hoping to pull that extra TT like they did under FP-. You have put yourself in a line of people who were wanting the same thing that there was not enough of to go around... and you're hearing from them that they can't get it. But you are not in the thick of the casual guest who never did and still does not have any interest in researching tickets or kiosks.

FP+ STILL benefits that guest that was not interested in FP- only now, it throws 3 fast passes in their lap.

Anyways. Point is. You go in a line of people wanting a 4th FP to something great, you're going to be among company that is also wanting similar. Because most of those other people who used to never get any, used their 3 and were happy.

 

[Planogirl]

The majority of guests come from off site.

I don't think that's true. TEA estimates Disney had 50.1 million visitors in 2013. They have roughly 30,000 rooms at 3.2 people a room and have reported at least 85 percent occupancy. Those numbers suggest that roughly 30 million of the 50 million were on-site guests.

I'm probably just slow but I'm not following the connection between number of rooms and occupancy, and park visitors.

 

[Luckybee]

If FP+ is a failure, it is certainly not showing on Disneys bottom line. Considering that a lot of the detractors are also here to plan their next WDW vacation, I would have to say Disney- 1, FP detractors- 0. If we were keeping score, that is.

I also think that the opinion (and that is all it is) that most people dislike FP + on this specific message board is not based on fact.

But how many are planning a "typical" or "usual" trip might be the better question. How many have made significant changes to plans might also be. It isn't a matter of keeping score imho since I doubt anyone here wishes to see D fail. We all love Disney in one way or another. Some of us (myself) are just disheartened by what I've seen D do of late particularily with fp which for us takes a great deal of pleasure out of our trip.
Which is why this fp+ "detractor" has made drastic changes to our upcoming trip.
Prior to our Sept/Oct trip we had planned our May trip and had already booked the time off in our schedules for 3 weeks. The plan was for 1 week Orlando, then on to 2 weeks elsewhere. 7 day tickets were part of the mix, I had 7 park days and Disney dinners planned. Then work commitments conflicted and we had to cut the trip time back so we decided that since we're doing Aruba in the fall we'll just do Orlando for 10 days in May so get 10 day tickets and have a ball.
Then we took our Sept trip. I wont go into the myriad of reasons once again but suffice to say we were unhappy with fp+ and as a result tried Universal for the first time since it first opened. For us it was great and in many ways reminded me of the Disney of old.
And so it goes...we decided to leave Disney out altogether for our upcoming trip. Then friends decided to go at the same time as us, and we've added on a few days at the beginning of the trip but we're only doing 2 day tickets and mainly for Bog and F&G at Epcot. We expect to spend a lot less time, and a whole lot less money at Disney that we would have (significantly less as a matter of fact)...and keep in mind that I love (d) Disney. But I would rather not go as much or as long then go and be frustrated and not relaxed. So im not keeping score but if there are others like us who are changing there plans then I guess it is just a question of how many which no one here knows .

 

[erc]

We expect to spend a lot less time, and a whole lot less money at Disney that we would have (significantly less as a matter of fact)

Well, I guess my family will make up for your loss. We hadn't gone since 2008 and just got back from a very fun experience on level 9 days. FP+ ensured that (barring ride breakdowns) we were guaranteed to ride the top three attractions important to us, and arriving soon after park opening allowed short standby waiting for the others that tend to get long wait times later in the day. In fact we had so much fun that I am earmarking my employee stock purchase plan for our next Disney vacation. And looking at my resort billing at checkout I dropped $230 at Liberty Tree Tavern for one ADR. So we are not skimping on spending money in the parks.

The only thing I would change is to be able to schedule a 4th FP from your mobile app in addition to the kiosks. There were always lines at the kiosks. That is really the only improvement I would suggest.

 

[cakebaker]

And this will be our 3rd trip in well under a year, the most we've ever visited in such a short period of time. I honestly think, that for every person who FP+ doesn't work for, there are many more that it does work for. While I never think this board is particularly representative of the general public- the overwhelming majority of the "just went to Disney for the first time" posts I see are positive here- and that is in direct opposition to the feeling I have that more people here don't like FP+ than do.

First timers have nothing to measure it against, they hadn't learned the old system and gotten attached to it. Easier to start new habits than break old ones. Add that to the repeat guest who like FP+ and you've got a lot of people liking it.

 

[BugsDaddy]

But how many are planning a "typical" or "usual" trip might be the better question. How many have made significant changes to plans might also be. It isn't a matter of keeping score imho since I doubt anyone here wishes to see D fail. We all love Disney in one way or another. Some of us (myself) are just disheartened by what I've seen D do of late particularily with fp which for us takes a great deal of pleasure out of our trip.
Which is why this fp+ "detractor" has made drastic changes to our upcoming trip.
Prior to our Sept/Oct trip we had planned our May trip and had already booked the time off in our schedules for 3 weeks. The plan was for 1 week Orlando, then on to 2 weeks elsewhere. 7 day tickets were part of the mix, I had 7 park days and Disney dinners planned. Then work commitments conflicted and we had to cut the trip time back so we decided that since we're doing Aruba in the fall we'll just do Orlando for 10 days in May so get 10 day tickets and have a ball.
Then we took our Sept trip. I wont go into the myriad of reasons once again but suffice to say we were unhappy with fp+ and as a result tried Universal for the first time since it first opened. For us it was great and in many ways reminded me of the Disney of old.
And so it goes...we decided to leave Disney out altogether for our upcoming trip. Then friends decided to go at the same time as us, and we've added on a few days at the beginning of the trip but we're only doing 2 day tickets and mainly for Bog and F&G at Epcot. We expect to spend a lot less time, and a whole lot less money at Disney that we would have (significantly less as a matter of fact)...and keep in mind that I love (d) Disney. But I would rather not go as much or as long then go and be frustrated and not relaxed. So im not keeping score but if there are others like us who are changing there plans then I guess it is just a question of how many which no one here knows .

I applaud your decision to do the only logical thing that a person could do in this situation by spending your vacation dollars elsewhere. It makes sense if you dislike what Disney has become and you want to make them aware of that. This is the only thing that will create change. 1000 posts on this board won't change Disneys course if those same people continue to purchase the product.

For me, I like FP+ and the direction that Disney is taking in most things, not that I agree 100% with everything they do. So, I will continue to spend my money there. And that is where the "battle" will be fought. If Disney continues to prosper, they will stay the course. If they lose a significant portion of market share, they will make change and will need to dig in to what is causing the problem. If it turns out that the problem is that a large portion of people are leaving Disney due to FP+, they will change. I personally don't think that is going to happen.

 

[JimmyV]

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy. If two people could play chess -- and both win -- wouldn't that be great? Heh. Unfortunately, for every person you give a 4th to, you are taking a ride away from someone else.

Not during the slower periods of attendance you wouldn't. You really need to read my posts more carefully before you reflexively attack them. I was quite clear that the Extra Magic passes would be limited to Value Season. If you have 35% fewer people through the turnstiles as compared to the busiest days, then you have 35% more Fast Passes to give to the people who show up while still doling out exactly the same number of passes. You have shown yourself to be intelligent enough to understand this simple concept. If not, let's recap. Assume that on an off season day with horrible weather, only one person shows up at the MK. Ignoring the fact that this person would not need any FPs, could Disney give that person 4? 5? 7? Would doing so "take a ride away from anyone else"? Now raise the attendance to 100 people. Same result? Now 1,000. Any different? How about 10,000? There is no question that at some level of attendance, EVERY GUEST could get 4. On Christmas Day? No. On January 9th? Certainly. You know this. So why the tiresome stalking of my posts. If you feel so strongly that 3 is the magic number, then if Disney offers you a 4th, then don't take it. We wouldn't want you ripping a FP for Dumbo out of some poor girl's hand.

And I would conclude, when waiting in line at the grocery store, the overwhelming sentiment was that people needed to buy groceries. Of course these people felt 3 was too few. They're in line for a 4th! You are clearly not representative of the average guest, you are in line w guests who are there for the same reason as you.

This makes no sense at all. One can feel that 3 is too few irrespective of whether they are in line for a fourth or in line for a Dole Whip.

Remember the average guest... now, does not try to get in lines for extra FP+'s.

Citation?