LET THE FLAMES BEGIN>>>adult only dining

[DebbieB]

I welcome children at all restaurants. I've seen too many parents sit through drinks, appetizers, main meal, dessert and coffee and disregard what their kids are doing. That's not fair to the kids, the waitstaff or the patrons. If you come with kids who are tired, antsy or not used to a long, sit-down meal, you need to adjust your menu choices accordingly. It's just common sense.

I have no problem with parents who are trying to control their kids during a meal. Kids have meltdowns in the most embarrassing places. It happens. I do, however, have major problems with parents who don't care what their children are doing as long as the parents can tune them out and hang out as long as they want to.

That's what I hate, especially when there are 2 or more couples. They talk amongst themselves and pay no attention to what their kids are doing. The kids are crawling under other people's tables, the parents just keep on talking. Then you feel like you have to entertain their kids when they come up to you looking for someone to pay attention to them.

 

[Taratink]

Each parent can make there own decision and I am not judging anyone. I am just stating my thoughts. I have a 3 and 5 yr old and I love to take them out to dinner. Most of the time they behave well but there have been times when we have had to get the meal to go. It is just a fact of life. Many parents do let their kids behavior get out of control and do not leave when they should and end up upseting others. I think these are the instances people are concerned about. Most people adore well behaved children. I also cannot stand the attitude that children are a nuisance. I beleive that they deserve to be respected and treated kindly and given oppurtunities to experence some grown up stuff when ready. I also know that these signature restaurants have slow service and are very expensive. Many 3 yr old children can last an hour or so but I would not expect my young kids to be able to be able to sit through a meal that lasts 2 1/2 hrs. That is the reason that I stick to faster family friendly rest such as WCC and others like it
Tara

 

[Unofficial Fan]

MHO added to the mix:

What could it hurt to have an "adults only" dining restaurant (or two or three)? Seems to me that Pleasure Island would be a logical site.

One thing that came up on this thread I just had to comment on. I am continually amazed by the number of people who seem to think every child should be in bed by a certain time. FWIW, when dd was aged 3-6 we generally slept from about 1 or 2 am and slept until 11 or noon - that's just how we are biologically wired. Unfortunately our school system doesn't allow us our normal sleep patterns, but in the summer we are right back there within a few days. I don't make comments like "I can't believe those parents made those kids wake up at 6 am" and I don't enjoy hearing the opposite type of comments when we are up late.

I took my child to Jiko this past trip (about Jan 22 or so). If she offended anyone, I apologize. In my perspective she is incredibly well behaved in "fancy" restaurants. Of course as her parent I may be a little biased. Taking her to restaurants with GOOD food (not just mediocre) is my treat at the end of the day. While I of course do enjoy Disney, the main reason I go is to provide her with a happy experience. Sometimes I expect a little.... payback, if you will, of having her "endure" a restaurant like Jiko's or California Grill. Generally she does enjoy them as well.


JMHO

 

[lmhall2000]

1. Put your children first.

Included in this one....I forego the fancy restaurants or I put them in Neverland for 2 hours at a great expense to us ($30 an hour!)...because although that money could be used for something self-indulging it would make my children smile and dragging them to a PS at Le Cellier at night having to walk 20 minutes to get there would be TORTURE to them....I think it's torture for any child 3 or under to be in a restaurant after 6pm unless he/she had a 3 hour nap that day. And please don't send them to Neverland if they're not up for it...my poor kids were there with only 2 other children and they were so concerned for the other two boys because they fought and screamed and cried the whole time..."They were not nice to each other mommy"... I have great experiences with children from all walks...filling in for the "live-in" nanny for celebrities, dual working families who needed an extra hand, the ultra rich and the barely making it...there are just some general rules for being kind to children and putting their needs above your wants. I may want a nice dinner but is that what my children need....much more fun for all if we order room service and rehash the great day's events.

2. Put others second...

If you attend to #1 #2 shouldn't be an issue...the most disgusting sight is seeing a child obviously with a high fever resting in a stroller and rolling over to throw up because one of his parents wouldn't sacrifice a day at the parks to keep him cool and rested. That actually happened...the child threw right up on my clothing while I was sitting on a bench waiting for my husband and ds to exit a ride....and the mother was yelling at the father to help her clean it up...she was exclaiming that after 2 days you'd think the child would get better. HUH????

Whew...feel better...maybe I'll help a child...
Tara

 

[justhat]

I agree about kids and bedtimes, Unoffical Fan. My daughter is 11 months old and last night she went to bed at 11:15, her own choice. She got up later than normal, at 9:45, took a 40 minute nap around 2:30, then stayed up playing on her own while I did some housework. She usually goes to bed at 9:30, not cause she has a 'bedtime' but because she's usually getting tired around then (like tonight), but last night she was very happy playing and I was up so I don't see a problem with it. She started getting sleepy about 11, so we got ready for bed and she was sleeping within 15 minutes, something that NEVER happens if I try to put her to bed when I feel it's time.

So when we're on vacation, we stay out late with her, as she's usually wide awake and happy as long as there's something to see or do. If she's tired, she'll fall asleep in her stroller or Baby Bjorn wherever we are. Usually though, she'll stay up if there's something she is interested in or if there's food around! She even 'ate' with us at Jiko in June when she was 4 months old.

We've been to Disney with her 4 times between 3 and 9 months old and she's been out late at least once per trip, though I'm sure it was more than that. We're headed back in April and she'll be almost 14 months and we've made all our PSs and she'll be joining us at Yachtsman Steakhouse, CG, FF, BD, and Narcoosee's on 4/19, 20, 21, 24, and 25, in case you'd like to avoid the place! (Just kidding!) My daughter is very well behaved, I really couldn't ask for a better baby. She hardly ever cries (really only if she wakes up and finds out mean mommy stuck her in that crib!) and is generally very happy, and she loves to eat whatever mommy and daddy have so 'nice' restaurants are great for her, as I don't want her eating chicken fingers and fries. I know I'm biased, like all parents, but I really think she's a good baby, and she will enjoy being with us at dinner, no matter where we eat, than with a sitter. And since she's only been left with someone non-related once (on the Disney cruise when we ate at the adult restaurant), she would be less than thrilled to be left with a stranger especially in a strange hotel. So if anyone is eating in those restaurants when we are, look for us and you'll see I'm not lying.

I will admit that yesterday while at brunch at the Ritz-Carlton (IMO much fancier of a place than Disney), she did scream a few times because she wanted my yogurt faster than I was giving it to her. My mom and I both told her no, gave her a face that showed we weren't happy, and after 3 or 4 times she stopped. Granted, people had to hear her scream a few times, but we did stop her, and it was for a justified reason (to me anyway), not a tantrum or anything like that. Anywhere kids are allowed you have to expect some noise, by nature they're not silent creatures. I understand not wanting to hear constant screaming and the like, but some noise has to be expected. It may irritate some people, but if kids are allowed then they're allowed to be kids too. Please don't think I mean running around the restaurant, knocking things down, prolonged screaming, crying, etc., but general loud kid behavior from time to time.

There's no way I'm going to eat at the snack bar for dinner everynight because I have a child, and to think that the parents of the whiny 3yo should is not reasonable. I'm sure they didn't want to have their child cry throughout their whole meal at Jiko, but they may not have expected it, or thought he'd calm down. They may be like me and not want to eat or have their child eat counter service food for dinner, so off to Jiko they go. Do kids want to eat there? Maybe, maybe not, but if we let our kids tell us where and what we're going to eat everynight, well, let's just say the cookie industry would see a surge in sales!

 

[justhat]

1. Put your children first.

Included in this one....I forego the fancy restaurants or I put them in Neverland for 2 hours at a great expense to us ($30 an hour!)...because although that money could be used for something self-indulging it would make my children smile and dragging them to a PS at Le Cellier at night having to walk 20 minutes to get there would be TORTURE to them....I think it's torture for any child 3 or under to be in a restaurant after 6pm unless he/she had a 3 hour nap that day. And please don't send them to Neverland if they're not up for it...my poor kids were there with only 2 other children and they were so concerned for the other two boys because they fought and screamed and cried the whole time..."They were not nice to each other mommy"... I have great experiences with children from all walks...filling in for the "live-in" nanny for celebrities, dual working families who needed an extra hand, the ultra rich and the barely making it...there are just some general rules for being kind to children and putting their needs above your wants. I may want a nice dinner but is that what my children need....much more fun for all if we order room service and rehash the great day's events.

Whew...feel better...maybe I'll help a child...
Tara

If I don't eat at Le Cellier, where should I eat? What kind of restaurant would make my daughter happy? I won't feed her any cheeseburgers, fries, pizza, chicken fingers, so what does that leave me? We do go to some buffets, but not every night. So that leaves sit-down meals, unless I'm missing something. Teaching a child 'fine dining' doesn't seem torturous to me. If we don't eat fast food at home, why would we eat it out? No, I'm not going to shelter her from all those foods forever, but as long as she doesn't know otherwise, I will not be offering them to her. Right now she's a great eater-black beans are her favorite food-so I don't want to ruin that. Feeding her junk food for a week doesn't feel like I'm putting my child first.

 

[2angelsinheaven]

I kinda agree, especially if it was later in the evening. I cringe when I see little ones eating at 10pm... yikes! I know people come back late from the parks but why oh why then bring your little one to a fancy dinner afterwards.
But I do know that I took a 2 two year olds to Ohanas once and they were great, when one started to act up we took a walk to the tv area to calm down and then resumed dinner. I think it's ok for little ones to go to fancier places, but maybe it's more appropriate earlier in the night.

 

[aubriee]

And here's the rub. Your definition of "well behaved" may not be everyone's defintion of "well behaved". I mentally allow other parents plenty of slack when it comes to kids behaving like ... well ... kids. Even in expensive restaurants. It makes for a much more enjoyable meal when I'm not fuming about someone else's 3 year old not behaving to my standards!

I agree to a certain point. Kids will be kids and WDW is full of them. However, when we were there in January there were several instances where a kid could not be defined as 'well behaved' by anybody standards and the parents did nothing to remove the child from the situation. At H&V (family oriented, I know), the people next to us totally ignored their kid's behaviour. They had a little boy about 4 or 5 y/o who screamed from the time we sat down until they finally left. He was sitting on the floor beneath their table just screaming. I thought he would eventually run out of steam, but he didn't. A few times they got up and went back to the buffet and just left him sitting under the table screaming. It must happen pretty regularly, because the kid didn't seem surprised or even get up to go follow them, just screamed a little louder. There is no way they could have seen that little boy while they were at the buffet. Of course, they could hear him. The whole time they just totally ignored him. I know some parents use 'time out' or 'extinction' and just ignore the bad behaviour, but that was ridiculous. Everybody was glaring at them and they just ignored it. Finally they left, but only after the dad had lit up a cigarette and had been told by the waiter that he couldn't smoke in the restaurant. The man got really huffy and said he always smoked after dinner and then asked where the nearest designated smoking area was located. They finally reached under the table, pulled the kid out, and then left the restaurant with him still screaming. I never once saw them even speak to the little boy.

 

[aubriee]

And here's the rub. Your definition of "well behaved" may not be everyone's defintion of "well behaved". I mentally allow other parents plenty of slack when it comes to kids behaving like ... well ... kids. Even in expensive restaurants. It makes for a much more enjoyable meal when I'm not fuming about someone else's 3 year old not behaving to my standards!

Another instance, same night and same restaurant. Across from us was a handicapped couple both in wheelchairs just minding their business and enjoying their meal. The people across from them had several loud, obnoxious kids. The kids started rolling their eyes, making fun of the handicapped couple, and making loud comments about them. I saw the parents glance at them, then at the handicapped couple, but they did nothing to stop the behaviour, just kept on talking among themselves. I had finally had enough (plus the screaming 5 y/o was getting on my nerves). Anyway the waiter came by and filled my water glass. I looked at him and nodded toward the kids, but he just winced and shrugged. I got up like I was going to the buffet and had my water glass in my hand. As I approached the table I 'accidentally' stumbled pouring the full glass of water over the older kid's head. Of course I immediately apologized . What could the parents say? I did apologize and besides what adult would intentionally pour a full glass of ice water over a kid? I went to the dessert bar and got something I didn't even want, and on the way back to the table made sure they saw me wink at the handicapped couple who were rolling with laughter. When I got back to my table, my son was talking to the waiter and said 'I can't believe you did that'. The waiter said "I can't either, but I am so glad she did'. By the way these were not preschoolers, but kids late elementary or Jr high that should have been taught better.

 

[swilphil]

I do not expect to be popular after this but after dining at Jiko 's with my DH last week and enduring the crying and whining from the 3 year old at the next table I have to ask...why would the parents subject their child to a restaurant like this?

Because the restaurant is in Disney World. If a Jiko-type restaurant were elsewhere I would totally agree with you, but Disney World is geared to kids. I think if you eat much later in the evening, you might see fewer toddlers. Though it's possible you might see toddlers who are just tired and extra cranky.

I, personally, would be less bothered by crying and whining than by kids who were making fun of a handicapped couple like Aubriee described. Way to go, Aubriee! You handled the situation perfectly.

 

[DeterminedOne]

I don't want to deal with whining kids whether I'm paying $100 for a meal or $10. I don't want to see whining kids anywhere ... not just Disney and not just restaurants. I think it comes down to parenting. Kids will act the way they are allowed. As kids we were never allowed to act up in public ... parents had control over us, which is the way it should be. My mother would give us a look and we knew that meant to straigten up and fast. I understand sometimes kids get cranky, sleepy, etc. But know your child well enough to know what they can and cannot tolerate. Sometimes parents want to do what they want to do, so they drag kids around when they know the child is tired, cranky, sick, or don't belong in that environment. Went to see the movie Million Dollar Baby the other day and there was a woman there with what appeared to be a two year old. C'mon! If you want to get out that bad hire a baby sitter. Otherwise, stay at home! I don't want to see your child running around or hear them screaming and crying. Not at a movie, restaraunt, Disney or anywhere. Unless a child is sick or physically hurt, there's no reason for them to whine and cry. Control your kids or keep them at home!

 

[bubblefactory]

Bubblefactory...While I am sure that your kids would be OK, what if they were not? Would you or your husband interrupt your dinner or leave early??

I don't have a husband, I have a wife but yes, we would probably take them out to the nearest store and try some bribery. Our kids are not perfect angels all the time, but they have been taught a restaurant is not the place to throw a tantrum.

The problem usually comes down to the parents trying to squeeze every last minute into a day no matter what. I guess receiving so little vacation time in the US, the pressure is on to make the most of it (and I don't blame you!), even if that means keeping the kids out 'til way past their bedtime. We tend to 'chill' at WDW for 2 weeks rather than rush round cramming everything in, we're lucky enough to gets 4 weeks vacation time and the wife always has the next trip mentally booked before we fly home! but I know that's a luxury many people don't have, so you can't really blame them for making the most of each day. We know our kids limits and we will leave the parks before closing to make our PS and enjoy our meal as a family, whether it be Chef Mickeys, Le Cellier or Cali Grill. I just got the impression the OP was saying that Jiko should be a no go for kids and I disagree. If i'm wrong, then i'm sorry.

 

[chobie]

I don't want to deal with whining kids whether I'm paying $100 for a meal or $10. I don't want to see whining kids anywhere ... not just Disney and not just restaurants. I think it comes down to parenting. Kids will act the way they are allowed. As kids we were never allowed to act up in public ... parents had control over us, which is the way it should be. My mother would give us a look and we knew that meant to straigten up and fast. I understand sometimes kids get cranky, sleepy, etc. But know your child well enough to know what they can and cannot tolerate. Sometimes parents want to do what they want to do, so they drag kids around when they know the child is tired, cranky, sick, or don't belong in that environment. Went to see the movie Million Dollar Baby the other day and there was a woman there with what appeared to be a two year old. C'mon! If you want to get out that bad hire a baby sitter. Otherwise, stay at home! I don't want to see your child running around or hear them screaming and crying. Not at a movie, restaraunt, Disney or anywhere. Unless a child is sick or physically hurt, there's no reason for them to whine and cry. Control your kids or keep them at home!

You can judge parents all you want and vent until the cows come home, but it won't change things. Children need to be shown how to act, not controlled. They're humans not animals.

For all those huffing and puffing about bedtimes, how hard is it to understand that WDW is a vacation DESTINATION and what is 10 pm to you is 7pm to someone else? As your all so concerned about the health of the kids at WDW, then you should be encouraging parents to keep them on the same time clock for the week that they are at WDW.

If your just concerned about the the possible whine or cry that might be heard, than only go to places that don't allow children. Otherwise, quit your whining!

 

[antkim]

Personally I don't think its a "REASONABLE" decision to pay perfect strangers to watch my children so I don't have to bother parenting them over dinner. ............. To me, showing respect at WDW means allowing parents to have a decent meal with their kids and not getting uptight at every little sound or move a child makes.

I don't ever recall 1 person here saying they can not be bothered parenting their child during dinner!!! I also do not recall anyone saying they get uptight at every little sound or move a child makes!!!! We are referring to the children throwing temper tantrums and running around or under tables. This is unacceptable anywhere....well maybe Chuck e Cheese!! LOL

Apparently, you and your children are much more perfect than myself and my children. I'm average....I enjoy a nice dinner without my kids at times...be it WDW or Worcester. I use babysitters so that we can relax. I have respect for others as well....they need to have a night out also and do not deserve to hear my child whine(which he may or may not do.....he's 17 months old and not perfect yet! My ds(6) would do fine at a Signature restaurant)

I like the world I live in and my children will be brought up to respect other's as well but thank you for judging me just the same.

Kim

 

[java]

Well we have brought our children to almost any restaurant at Disney(Not Victoria and Alberts or the one in the CR) My children behave in restaurants. We taught them how to behave- one problem we leave. They got the message pretty fast. We have been approached by other diners commenting on how well behaved my children are. And they have had dessert bought for them by other diners because of their behaviour.(aren't I perfect ) But my point is that some children know how to behave. I believe it is the parents that may be clueless. No one should be forced to listen to my child scream in any restaurant fancy or not. Now that being said, this time we probably will avoid most of these restaurants(except a couple favorites in Epcot) because we will be traveling with a new baby and our 2 year old-unpredicatable at this point. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying you don't want your diner ruined by some wild child. Just like we also have a problem with the loud talkers in restaurants or people on cell phones sitting at their table or drunk couples being loud.

 

[lillygator]

Why bother to go to Disney World if you don't want to see unruly children? Why not make sure you go to adults only restaurants?


now - putting on my flame retardant suit - but I would rather deal with children being testy than old people loudly slurping their food, or drunk people getting very loud - or loud conversations in general, or sick people hacking all over the place....the list goes on and I have experienced it in every "upper scale" Disney restaurant.

 

[Wee Annie]

Isn't the long and short of this that some people are rude, whether it's adults being rude on their own or being rude because they're not lifting a finger to control out-of-control children in a fine restaurant?

If the children know how to behave, fine. And I would never judge a parent who was TRYING to deal with a fussy or cranky child, although the nicest thing you could do for that child is not take it to a nice, sit-down restaurant when it's feeling that way. I've been there -- trying to deal with the child having a melt-down, and all I (and probably most of the other posters) ask for is that the parents not ignore them and deal with the situation.

The problem is, children learn by example, and some of those rude adults are teaching their children not-so-good lessons.

But the vast majority of people who bring their children into a nice restaurant are probably polite, considerate people who know their children's limitations and have decided that their children can handle it and will enjoy it. Those people are not the problem, and probably everybody posting on this thread falls in that category (because they're people concerned enough about behavior to debate it). But those people were not the subject of the OP.

 

[lillygator]

Isn't the long and short of this that some people are rude, whether it's adults being rude on their own or being rude because they're not lifting a finger to control out-of-control children in a fine restaurant?

If the children know how to behave, fine. And I would never judge a parent who was TRYING to deal with a fussy or cranky child, although the nicest thing you could do for that child is not take it to a nice, sit-down restaurant when it's feeling that way. I've been there -- trying to deal with the child having a melt-down, and all I (and probably most of the other posters) ask for is that the parents not ignore them and deal with the situation.

The problem is, children learn by example, and some of those rude adults are teaching their children not-so-good lessons.

But the vast majority of people who bring their children into a nice restaurant are probably polite, considerate people who know their children's limitations and have decided that their children can handle it and will enjoy it. Those people are not the problem, and probably everybody posting on this thread falls in that category (because they're people concerned enough about behavior to debate it). But those people were not the subject of the OP.

very well said. I do think the majority of parents would either be considerate enough to know if their child could handle certain situations or at least deal with a meltdown at hand. It is the select few that always get noticed and "ruin" it for everyone else.

 

[chobie]

I don't ever recall 1 person here saying they can not be bothered parenting their child during dinner!!! I also do not recall anyone saying they get uptight at every little sound or move a child makes!!!! We are referring to the children throwing temper tantrums and running around or under tables. This is unacceptable anywhere....well maybe Chuck e Cheese!! LOL

Apparently, you and your children are much more perfect than myself and my children. I'm average....I enjoy a nice dinner without my kids at times...be it WDW or Worcester. I use babysitters so that we can relax. I have respect for others as well....they need to have a night out also and do not deserve to hear my child whine(which he may or may not do.....he's 17 months old and not perfect yet! My ds(6) would do fine at a Signature restaurant)

I like the world I live in and my children will be brought up to respect other's as well but thank you for judging me just the same.

Kim

I was speaking for myself. I don't find it reasonable to leave my kids with strangers. I'm not judging you, nor am I judging the parents who bring their kids to these restaurants. My kids aren't perfect and that is why I am tolerant of other people's not-so-perfect kids when I am at Disney World. If you did choose to bring your baby to a "signature" restaurant, I would not judge you for that either. Not at WDW. I expect to see kids everywhere they offer accommodations to kids.

The bottom line here is that while we are finger-pointing, judging, proselytizing about what is best for children, venting, pontificating etc.
The folks at Disney are laughing all the way to the bank. If people are really serious about kids at some of these Disney places, then they should tell the Disney Co. this and refuse to spend their money at a restaurant that might have kids being kids, even though the entrée prices are high.

Edited to add: I show respect to others at WDW by not judging parents for how thier kids act. I don't know the whole situation and I certainly don't know anyting about how they parent on a day to day basis. Sure I could make judgmentsm on their parenting skills based on the hour I am near them, but I would consider that to be disrespectful.

 

[tlev]

Just because a restaurant offers a kids menu doesn't automatically give rude parents the right to allow their kids to misbehave. Just because it is Disney does not give rude parents the right to allow their children to misbehave. If your children can handle a nice restaurant experience then so much the better. I am sorry if I don't want my nice dinner with my wife disturbed by someone who feels that they need to teach their children to eat in nice places. If you were sitting next to me one night and I was unruly and drunk, who would you expect to leave? Would you want to cut short your meal or would you ask the staff to escort me out? People need to realize its EVERYONE's vacation, and everone deserve to have a nice time, not just families. Disney restaurants are still PUBLIC PLACES and children and adults both should be expected to act accordingly.

I know I come across as anti-kid but I strongly believe that it is the parent's responsibility to realize if their children are effecting other people's dining. We were at the CG and saw an exasperated waiter finally have to tell a group of families to control their kids from running around the restaurant. There are so many restaurants on property that there is no need to drag an unhappy child to a Signature restaurant just because the parents are tired of chicken fingers.

Bring on the FLAMES!