LET THE FLAMES BEGIN>>>adult only dining

[Wee Annie]

If you're going to use it, then get it right. It's "Practically Perfect Parents". Snide? Maybe. But so are all the other judgmental generizations that people make when they talk about parenting. Every child is an individual and parenting is not one-size-fits-all. It's the PPP who think that their way is the only way to parent and that if you don't do things their way you are a bad parent. Or, at the very least misguided and in need of instruction.

I'm not a Perfect Parent and I don't play one on the DIS .

Sorry to get the label wrong -- it's a VERY long thread.

I really think we're in agreement about parenting, and probably about when a child is truly out of control and should be dealt with.

And Chobie -- I agree that nothing constructive can emerge from this thread anymore! We all have expressed our opinions over and over.

Let's leave it at: tolerate "children being children" even more at a place like WDW, but also be mindful that your childrens' (or your!) behavior isn't inconsiderate to others. Does that sum it up fairly?

I'm no perfect parent (no matter what the label), and would never play one anywhere.

 

[lyeag]

Ok, I made sure I read through most of this before I posted. I am by no means a perfect parent. Having said that, I think that if you have consistent expectations about behavior during meals ( at home, or anywhere else) you would be able to avoid a lot of this. Also, if you plan on taking your child to an upscale restaurant, you should practice, practice, practice-at home, McDonald's.... wherever. Learning table manners isn't abuse.

Of course children get tired. Especially at WDW. If you know that, why would you choose to make it worse knowing how your child/children act when they are tired? I have dealt with my own kids when they have tried to act up in nice restaurants. Distraction, coloring, crackers, (yes, even threats!) but when none of the above works, you leave out of consideration of other guests and to teach your child/children about what is and what is not acceptable behavior. IMHO, crawling under tables, throwing things, visiting other tables,constant fighting or crying, fits in that catagory. A one or two minute outburst that happens only once or twice does not, depending on the age. (under 5 ok, over no way). Infants are not acting unacceptable when they are crying, you deal with them by offering bottles, pacifiers, to nurse and when that doesn't work, you go walk them in the lobby or wherever. IF that still doesn't work... sorry, you leave.

We were at WDW in Dec. Would I have loved to have taken my family to a nice sit down meal? Yes. Did we? No. Why, because I have 2 younger ones who can be pretty ugly when tired. This was a trip for all of us, but dh and I put what was best for them before what we wanted for ourselves in the dining dept. We can always get a nice meal without them at home. You just can't expect others to put up with children who are out of control. Sorry, it is rude. Children who are crying and having fits because they are tired aren't bad, they are TIRED. Be a parent and let them go to bed, even if it ruins your night.

 

[chobie]

In fact, everyone seems to be pointing out that kids are individuals, and parents should act accordingly.

No they are not. Everyone seems to be judging. Let me once again call your attention to the OP where she says "subjecting a 3 year old to Jiko". The mere fact that small child was brought to Jiko was enough to warrant criticism on the part of the OP and many others.

Taking responsibility for the behavior of one's child does not a PPP make, stating that you and you only are the proper judge of what constitutes rude or irresponsible parenting does. Maybe you didn't do that, but it seems to some of use that other people did.

 

[lyeag]

Ok, would anyone really be brave enough to say that bothering total strangers, running around a dining room with trays full of dishes being carried around or yelling at the top of your lungs for 10-15 minutes, isn't rude?( when the parents can't or won't stop it?) If you honestly believe that, well yes, sorry God help me I am going to question you and your skills as a parent.

 

[chobie]

Ok, I made sure I read through most of this before I posted. I am by no means a perfect parent. Having said that, I think that if you have consistent expectations about behavior during meals ( at home, or anywhere else) you would be able to avoid a lot of this. Also, if you plan on taking your child to an upscale restaurant, you should practice, practice, practice-at home, McDonald's.... wherever. Learning table manners isn't abuse.

Of course children get tired. Especially at WDW. If you know that, why would you choose to make it worse knowing how your child/children act when they are tired? I have dealt with my own kids when they have tried to act up in nice restaurants. Distraction, coloring, crackers, (yes, even threats!) but when none of the above works, you leave out of consideration of other guests and to teach your child/children about what is and what is not acceptable behavior. IMHO, crawling under tables, throwing things, visiting other tables,constant fighting or crying, fits in that catagory. A one or two minute outburst that happens only once or twice does not, depending on the age. (under 5 ok, over no way). Infants are not acting unacceptable when they are crying, you deal with them by offering bottles, pacifiers, to nurse and when that doesn't work, you go walk them in the lobby or wherever. IF that still doesn't work... sorry, you leave.

We were at WDW in Dec. Would I have loved to have taken my family to a nice sit down meal? Yes. Did we? No. Why, because I have 2 younger ones who can be pretty ugly when tired. This was a trip for all of us, but dh and I put what was best for them before what we wanted for ourselves in the dining dept. We can always get a nice meal without them at home. You just can't expect others to put up with children who are out of control. Sorry, it is rude. Children who are crying and having fits because they are tired aren't bad, they are TIRED. Be a parent and let them go to bed, even if it ruins your night.

Or they are bored. Be a parent and engage them in a quiet activity or conversation about their day at Disney, while at the same time teaching them about how to behave in restaurants and not freaking ou at a moment of ill-behavior.

That's wonderful that you would leave a restaurant if your kids were not behaving perfectly, unfortunatley you do not have the right to decree that other parents follow suit. You can proclaim it on an internet forum and pat yourself on the back about your own parenting skills, but that is all you can do to.

 

[chobie]

Ok, would anyone really be brave enough to say that bothering total strangers, running around a dining room with trays full of dishes being carried around or yelling at the top of your lungs for 10-15 minutes, isn't rude?( when the parents can't or won't stop it?) If you honestly believe that, well yes, sorry God help me I am going to question you and your skills as a parent.

Thats an extreme situation. So is never taking to a child to a "signature" restaurant for fear they might have a moment. I personally am not talking about the extreme situations, although to be fair WDW itself is an extreme place, I'm basing my comments on the attitude that stems from referring to having a kid eat their chicken fingers at Jiko rather than Boma as "subjecting a child"...

 

[robinb]

Ok, would anyone really be brave enough to say that bothering total strangers, running around a dining room with trays full of dishes being carried around or yelling at the top of your lungs for 10-15 minutes, isn't rude?( when the parents can't or won't stop it?) If you honestly believe that, well yes, sorry God help me I am going to question you and your skills as a parent.

Exactly where did anyone say that over-the-top outrageous behavior was OK? Show me.

 

[lyeag]

Well, yes, if they are bored you should try to keep them entertained. I often brought bags with little toys for the little ones when we went out. I am saying as a last resort, if nothing else has worked you leave out of respect for others. I am not saying at the first problem you pack up and leave. At some point you have to consider others. Maybe my point is different than yours. I actually worry about small children getting hurt as they crawl under tables or run around. Wait staff are carrying heavy trays of hot food. It is dangerous for a small child ( and most small kids aren't worrying about hot food being dumped on them) to be running around in a restaurant. Not only for themselves, but others.

 

[Wenlitz]

Ok, would anyone really be brave enough to say that bothering total strangers, running around a dining room with trays full of dishes being carried around or yelling at the top of your lungs for 10-15 minutes, isn't rude?( when the parents can't or won't stop it?) If you honestly believe that, well yes, sorry God help me I am going to question you and your skills as a parent.

Putting on the flame suit, I agree with you and that really sums it up.
If your kids are not able to stay seated at your table and remain calm then they would be disrupting others dinner.

 

[Mandabella]

Thats an extreme situation. So is never taking to a child to a "signature" restaurant for fear they might have a moment. I personally am not talking about the extreme situations, although to be fair WDW itself is an extreme place, I'm basing my comments on the attitude that stems from referring to having a kid eat their chicken fingers at Jiko rather than Boma as "subjecting a child"...

That's just it. Many of us are talking about the "extreme situations."

 

[dwkwootton]

An example of anti-kid behavior: one who has a child but shirks the responsibility of parenting that child.

Proud to be a member of the PPP. Its hard work but its your job. You might even find it more dignified than the excuse making and challenging what is and isn't appropriate behavior. Gee, let's all discuss whether a child running through a restaurant or screaming for an extended period of time is appropriate!!

 

[chobie]

That's just it. Many of us are talking about the "extreme situations."

And many of you are not. If that was what the OP had wanted she would have started the message with a caveat of "I realize this is an extreme situation" , instead the parents were bought before the court of public opinion for having brought the child there in the first place.

 

[Ariel Wanna-be]

No they are not. Everyone seems to be judging

Okay.

I'll concede that the use of the term "everyone" was misguided...I'll retract that and use "most people." Better?

Yes, there may be some people who want adult-only dining offered (that's their opinion).

There are also some people who seem to want any bad behavior brushed off as "kids will be kids, there is nothing I can do." These posters want it to seem that if you expect them to act like parents, then you are anti-child.

However, I think that MOST of the opinions are in the middle...you WILL see kids at DW, and if they are having a meltdown, then the parents should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

Is it really in question that it's simply rude to ignore your child's tantrum at he expense of others?

Becky
(card-carrying member of the PPP )

 

[melvin]

My dh and I often go to Disney without kids (and I highly recommend it!) We laugh that it would be perfect if it weren't for those pesky kids around everywhere! Seriously, I never blame the kids, it's the parents. Yes, kids will cry and crab, if they don't stop, they need to leave. Simple as that. And no kids should be running around... they should be at there own table. Crayons, toys and game boys, people! As far as restaurants I don't think children should visit? Only V & A. Everthing else is fair game... if they have a children's menu, they are saying kids are welcome. My boys 14 and 10 have been "fancy eating" all of their lives. 10 still brings a game boy if he thinks it will be one of those "long ones" (with the sound turned off). We will be taking them to Jikos and California Grill. And we will not be wearing sweaty park attire, either!

 

[lyeag]

Okay.

I'll concede that the use of the term "everyone" was misguided...I'll retract that and use "most people." Better?

Yes, there may be some people who want adult-only dining offered (that's their opinion).

There are also some people who seem to want any bad behavior brushed off as "kids will be kids, there is nothing I can do." These posters want it to seem that if you expect them to act like parents, then you are anti-child.

However, I think that MOST of the opinions are in the middle...you WILL see kids at DW, and if they are having a meltdown, then the parents should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

Is it really in question that it's simply rude to ignore your child's tantrum at he expense of others?

Becky
(card-carrying member of the PPP )

EXACTLY!!!! I love my kids and they can be kids and act like kids, and BECAUSE they are kids, I have to set some limits to their behavior.

 

[chobie]

Okay.

I'll concede that the use of the term "everyone" was misguided...I'll retract that and use "most people." Better?

Yes, there may be some people who want adult-only dining offered (that's their opinion).

There are also some people who seem to want any bad behavior brushed off as "kids will be kids, there is nothing I can do." These posters want it to seem that if you expect them to act like parents, then you are anti-child.

However, I think that MOST of the opinions are in the middle...you WILL see kids at DW, and if they are having a meltdown, then the parents should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

Is it really in question that it's simply rude to ignore your child's tantrum at he expense of others?

Becky
(card-carrying member of the PPP )

I believe way back there was one poster who queried as to why WDW did not offer more adult only dining like they do on the cruise. I have no problem with that opinion.

I would join in with saying that a child running all over yada, yada, yada is wrong, but earlier I clarified as a former waitress the difference between safety issues and annoyance issues.

To call me a bad parent because I dare to not judge other parents, is well, judgmental, but hey whatever makes you feel good.

Since I have been put on the defense, then I will say in a loud voice:
"PARENTS DON'T LET YOUR KIDS RUN ALL OVER A RESTAURANT THEY MAY GET HURT AND YOU WILL BE AT FAULT" . Yes, I actually believe that. Everyone feel better now?

 

[antkim]

Or they are bored. Be a parent and engage them in a quiet activity or conversation about their day at Disney, while at the same time teaching them about how to behave in restaurants and not freaking ou at a moment of ill-behavior.

That's wonderful that you would leave a restaurant if your kids were not behaving perfectly, unfortunatley you do not have the right to decree that other parents follow suit. You can proclaim it on an internet forum and pat yourself on the back about your own parenting skills, but that is all you can do to.

Forgive me...but I am finding some of your responses down right rude and uncalled for. Thank you for telling people how to go about their dinner and be a parent by engaging them in conversation. If this were a perfect world that might actually work. Again, I made this point earlier.....maybe they are bored because of the choice of restaurant. If given a choice do you think a child would choose Jiko's over CM's? Not mine.

I have NO problem at all with children dining at any of these restaurants...if they can behave. Also, I would have no problem with a child misbehaving as long as the parents "be a parent" and act accordingly....no need to ruin someone else's expensive meal. It's the parent that takes their child to a nice restaurant KNOWING that they will be disruptive that get to me. I'm not talking about a little "meltdown".....I'm talking about the full blown unacceptable behavoir.

Maybe the reason why the guy at the table next to family XYZ is loud and drunk is because he needs to be to in order to block out the kids running circles next to him! LOL

Kim

 

[lyeag]

Exactly where did anyone say that over-the-top outrageous behavior was OK? Show me.

I didn't state that anyone came right out and said it was ok. I am saying many posts imply that their child's behavior is their business and that others have no right to express displeasure in their behavior or the skills of the parents. Let me be clear- I am not talking about the situation involving you. I am saying that many people allow this behavior to happen in general. Not just at WDW. WDW is a special place. If they have a kids menu, expect kids to be there, BUT as parents, just because there is a kid's menu that doesn't mean that we let our kids ruin other people's meals. No, we don't always know how our kids are going to act, but we should be ready to deal with it.

 

[chobie]

Just for the record, the situation described by the OP involved no running or screaming. It mentioned crying and whining. That's an annoyance issue. How people can become so vitriolic and condemning because of that is beyond me. Did the child really cry non-stop the entire dinner? If they did, than that is extreme and the parents should have boxed up the food and left.
If it was just intermittent crying and or/whining than I believe the parents where acting reasonably.

 

[chobie]

Forgive me...but I am finding some of your responses down right rude and uncalled for. Thank you for telling people how to go about their dinner and be a parent by engaging them in conversation. If this were a perfect world that might actually work. Again, I made this point earlier.....maybe they are bored because of the choice of restaurant. If given a choice do you think a child would choose Jiko's over CM's? Not mine.

I have NO problem at all with children dining at any of these restaurants...if they can behave. Also, I would have no problem with a child misbehaving as long as the parents "be a parent" and act accordingly....no need to ruin someone else's expensive meal. It's the parent that takes their child to a nice restaurant KNOWING that they will be disruptive that get to me. I'm not talking about a little "meltdown".....I'm talking about the full blown unacceptable behavior.

Maybe the reason why the guy at the table next to family XYZ is loud and drunk is because he needs to be to in order to block out the kids running circles next to him! LOL

Kim

I'm sorry, did you not tell others to be a parent and take their kids out of the restaurant because their crying means they are tired? If you did not, then I most certainly apologize.

Edited to add: boring your children with a restaurant choice does not bad parenting make.