Jet Blue Leaves Passengers in Jet for 11 Hours

I just feel really bad for Jetblue as well. They are a young airline who was trying to give the masses what they wanted. A good flight for less money. I think it has bitten them in the rear. Not having the ground crew abundance that most airlines do is a benefit except for days like that.

I agree. There was an article in The Times this morning about it and JetBLue is still trying hard to get it together. This has been a disaster for that company and much of it (weather, ATC) was out of their control. All JetBlue flights out of my home airport (PWM) have been cancelled for the weekend.

And ITA with SeashoreCM who said one thing we need is "less dings." People do want to have their cake and eat it too.

Low low price, perfect service, safety first -- pick two of three. Three of three is very difficult if not impossible to achieve.
 
All JetBlue flights out of my home airport (PWM) have been cancelled for the weekend.

And all Monday flights are canceled now also. I really like JB, we've flown them a couple of times and we'll be flying them again in June but it's unfortunate the mess that was created last week along with the snowball effect that has followed through the weekend and now at least through tomorrow. They've got a lot of unhappy customers at the moment and all the media attention isn't helping either.
 
Someone mentioned about the pilots should have "declared an emergency" to get back to the gate or unload onto busses. I imagine the penalty for a non-emergency declared an emergency is pretty great. Also, I don't think it is that jetblue didn't want to get the people off the planes. Part of the problem was there was nobody to get them off---no where to put the planes with all the arriving flights --- no way to just hop out of the line on the tarmac and no equipment to use since it was all frozen to the ground. Unless you were here that day, you can't imagine the amount of ice that was falling. Again, it wasn't snow---it was ice. We got 3-4 inches in CT of just ice pellets. It is frozen solid. I can skate on it and a shovel won't penatrate it. My snow blower even had a very hard time blowing the few inches we got. It was heavy. It is white like snow---but there wasn't a flake in it.

Jetblue's employees have a history of doing the unconventional to make their passengers comfortable and get things done. The pilots seem to have the leeway the bigger airlines don't normally give their employees. Ordering pizza, allowing their passengers to move about while on the tarmac which is basically against every rule on the books.

I for one am not giving up on them. I think that they will do what is necessary for this never to happen again. So, in that sense, they are probably a better bet in the future.

DG
 
Why is this even legal?
Blame the lawyers. If people wouldn't sue when they get hurt, then airlines would be willing to use emergency evac procedures even in cases like there where there is no emergency. However, since our society is so litigious, plan on this happening, over and over again: Northwest, American, JetBlue, etc., it doesn't matter....

Do note that when you board a flight you're voluntarily subjecting yourself to the direction of the flight crew for the duration. You have no right to deplane at will. If this is unacceptable, then don't fly.
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17175598/

The story was front-page news for both New York tabloid newspapers and dominated local television coverage. So JetBlue’s stock had to take a hit from the negative publicity, right? Wrong: JetBlue shares jumped 62 cents, or 4.7 percent, to close at $13.85 on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

And, as always, it comes back to the passengers' concern more about getting low fares than service:
"For people who weren’t directly affected but just heard the story, the lure of a low fares will largely counteract any anecdotal stories..."
 
The issue has nothing to do with emergency evac procedures. There is a procedure in place. The airline notifies the Port Authority, the agency that runs the NY area airports, and a bus is sent to the tarmac to get the passengers. Jet Blue waited hours before asking for assistance.


Blame the lawyers. If people wouldn't sue when they get hurt, then airlines would be willing to use emergency evac procedures even in cases like there where there is no emergency. However, since our society is so litigious, plan on this happening, over and over again: Northwest, American, JetBlue, etc., it doesn't matter....

Do note that when you board a flight you're voluntarily subjecting yourself to the direction of the flight crew for the duration. You have no right to deplane at will. If this is unacceptable, then don't fly.
 
Let's review the bidding. Who was uncomfortable in the plane?

Excluding being subject to the same things such as a screaming child normally encountered by everyone during flight even if for a much longer time span.

Excluding non-medical issues peculiar to a particular individual such as the knowledge that pipes were freezing in the home still far away or a friend was waiting at the destination airport.

Let's imagine that the airline offered this:

Passengers waiting to board are warned that the plane might sit on the tarmac for X hours hoping for a takeoff slot. They may choose to board anyway or may change their reservations or get a refund. The same Rule 240 for cancelled flights applies, if it is due to weather, no hotel accommodations might be given. It may be obvious (snow outside, crowds inside, etc.) without calling the reservation desk that no alternate flights might be available for several days.

Standbys would be allowed to take unclaimed seats.

Who would elect not to board?
 
Today's New York Times:

February 19, 2007

JetBlue’s C.E.O. Is ‘Mortified’ After Fliers Are Stranded

By JEFF BAILEY
The founder and chief executive of JetBlue Airways, his voice cracking at times, called himself “humiliated and mortified” by a huge breakdown in the airline’s operations that has dragged on for nearly a week, and promised that in the future JetBlue would pay penalties to customers if they were stranded on a plane for too long.

David G. Neeleman said in a telephone interview yesterday that his company’s management was not strong enough. And he said the current crisis, which has led to about 1,000 canceled flights in five days, was the result of a shoestring communications system that left pilots and flight attendants in the dark, and an undersize reservation system. Until now, JetBlue and its low fares have enjoyed overwhelming popularity and customer satisfaction ratings.

The crisis began Wednesday when an ice storm hit the Eastern United States. Most airlines responded by canceling more flights earlier, sending passengers home and resuming their schedules within a day or two. But JetBlue thought the weather would break and it would be able to fly, keeping its revenue flowing and its customers happy.

On the contrary, JetBlue’s woes dragged on day after day. On Saturday night, for instance, the airline said that the 23 percent of flights it had canceled on Saturday and Sunday would also be canceled Monday. The confusion led to angry exchanges between customers and employees, prompting the airline to call out security personnel.

Founded in 1999 as a low-fare airline, JetBlue was often cited as a favorite among passengers and expanded rapidly, but its systems to deal with the consequences of bad weather did not keep up with the growth, Mr. Neeleman said. The company’s low-cost operating structure may have been a contributing factor.

“We had so many people in the company who wanted to help who weren’t trained to help,” he said. “We had an emergency control center full of people who didn’t know what to do. I had flight attendants sitting in hotel rooms for three days who couldn’t get a hold of us. I had pilots e-mailing me saying, ‘I’m available, what do I do?’ ”

The part of the company that locates pilots and flight attendants and directs them to their next flight assignment is far too small for an airline JetBlue’s size, Mr. Neeleman said. He vowed to train 100 existing corporate office employees to work in that area when needed. Within two weeks, the area can be better backstopped, he said, and within 30 days, “flawless.”

Then again, Mr. Neeleman has been wrong before. On Friday, he told The New York Times that operations would be mostly back to normal on Saturday. That morning the company canceled 23 percent of its flights and shut service to 11 cities entirely.

Yesterday Mr. Neeleman said that throughout the chain of events, he had overestimated JetBlue’s ability to find people and get them into position.
The basic problem, he said, was JetBlue’s communication system: the ice storm had left a large portion of the airline’s 11,000 pilots and flight attendants far from where they needed to be to operate the planes, and JetBlue lacked the trained staff to find them and tell them where to go.

Prior to last week, JetBlue had never had so many people out of position.
The reservation system was also overwhelmed, with customers unable to get through to human agents to check on a flight. In an unusual arrangement, the company employs nearly 2,000 reservation agents in the Salt Lake City area, many of them women who work at home. Mr. Neeleman said he would adjust their work agreement to require them to work longer hours during difficult periods.

Mr. Neeleman said he would announce a compensation system for passengers tomorrow. He is hoping to win quick forgiveness from customers and to demonstrate that he takes the airline’s failings seriously.

“This is going to be a different company because of this,” Mr. Neeleman said. “It’s going to be expensive. But what’s more important is to win back people’s confidence.” He did not say if higher fares might be in the offing.
At the peak of the JetBlue problem, nine airplanes full of angry passengers sat for six hours or more on the tarmac at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York.

Other airlines have suffered big breakdowns. American Airlines stranded passengers on a plane in Austin, Tex., for about eight hours last Dec. 29. And in January 1999, a Northwest Airlines flight from the Caribbean arrived in Detroit 22 hours late and then was kept on the snowy tarmac for seven hours.

Last week at J.F.K., Delta Air Lines had at least one outbound flight that pulled away from the gate and then sat for two hours or more on the tarmac before returning to the gate, Betsy Talton, a Delta spokeswoman said. But Delta’s operations, smaller at J.F.K. than JetBlue’s, ran more smoothly. It canceled 20 to 25 of its roughly 80 flights on Wednesday, Ms. Talton said, and had some delays on Thursday.

Up and down the East Coast, Southwest avoided many of the problems JetBlue confronted by canceling more flights earlier. American Airlines also canceled flights earlier at J.F.K.

Throughout the airline industry, the move to lower costs has led to a thinning of staff. When things are running smoothly, the fewer number of people is usually adequate. When bad weather and other problems develop, however, it often becomes clear that airlines do not have enough people to manually rebook passengers on other flights, to handle misplaced bags and to take care of other problems.

Mr. Neeleman said JetBlue certainly erred in not canceling more flights and in not doing so earlier on Wednesday, and added that his company’s management lacked depth in operations. “We need to beef it up,” he said. “I’ll address that as well.”

Mr. Neeleman said he would enact what he called a customer bill of rights that would financially penalize JetBlue — and reward passengers — for any repeat of the current upheaval. He said he would propose a plan to pay customers, after some amount of time, by the hour for being stranded on a plane.

He says knows he has to deliver. “I can flap my lips all I want,” he said. “Talk is cheap. Watch us.”

There is growing sentiment in Congress to pass legislation that would mandate limits on the time passengers can be kept in a plane on the ground and also set compensation standards for stranded passengers. The airline industry hopes to fend off such a measure. Mr. Neeleman said he wanted to make the penalties to JetBlue “more aggressive than any airline lobbyist would let Congress do.”

Gordon M. Bethune, the former chief executive of Continental Airlines, said that little other than low fares would do much to win back customers, but if an airline makes a bad judgment call, “you better be good at recovery no matter what.” He called last week’s JetBlue meltdown “a byproduct of their past and their growth.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/19jetblue.html
 
Who would elect not to board?
This is a good point... I suspect the vast majority would still choose to board, and the same number would still complain if the delay occurred. Many people don't care about what terms and conditions there are -- they feel entitled to dictate the terms and conditions unilaterally, and then get indignant when suppliers don't live up to those one-sided specifications.
 
This is a good point... I suspect the vast majority would still choose to board, and the same number would still complain if the delay occurred. Many people don't care about what terms and conditions there are -- they feel entitled to dictate the terms and conditions unilaterally, and then get indignant when suppliers don't live up to those one-sided specifications.

If the JetBlue CEO thinks they messed up, why are you such an apologist for them???? Can airlines do NO WRONG in your book? I'm not clear why you endlessly defend such wrong behavior on their part.

People remember when they've been held hostage on a plane. People STILL talk about the time NWA kept people hostage for 7 hours in Detroit. AIRLINES DON"T LIVE THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR DOWN EASILY!

But the simple way to solve it is to pass the Passenger BIll of Rights, since airlines can't figure out how to police themselves.

Or, we could try another idea. Stuff a plane full of airline executives, then put them out on the Tarmac for 12 hours with no food, water or toilets. MAYBE THEN WE'D SEE SOME CHANGE!
 
Let's review the bidding. Who was uncomfortable in the plane?

Excluding being subject to the same things such as a screaming child normally encountered by everyone during flight even if for a much longer time span.

Excluding non-medical issues peculiar to a particular individual such as the knowledge that pipes were freezing in the home still far away or a friend was waiting at the destination airport.

Let's imagine that the airline offered this:

Passengers waiting to board are warned that the plane might sit on the tarmac for X hours hoping for a takeoff slot. They may choose to board anyway or may change their reservations or get a refund. The same Rule 240 for cancelled flights applies, if it is due to weather, no hotel accommodations might be given. It may be obvious (snow outside, crowds inside, etc.) without calling the reservation desk that no alternate flights might be available for several days.

Standbys would be allowed to take unclaimed seats.

Who would elect not to board?
Since I am so afraid to fly anyway if the officials made it sound that uncertain and indicated a possibility of being stranded in the plane vs stranded in the airport I would not have boarded. People were not given adequate information to make an informed decision.
 
It is going to be an experiment in economics that would be worthy of every business class to study in depth. Just how Jetblue is going to do all the expansion necessary to cover it's rear and continue to offer the same low-fares for which it is famous.

Some other things they may consider----yes, theyhave a practice of not overbooking; but maybe only selling to 80% capacity with the other seats stand-by would allow them room to put on stranded passengers from cancelled flights. People would still try stand-by. At least this could be a rule in the winter months where mass cancellation is more likely.

The backlog of passengers sitting in airports today is only a casualty of Jetblue's success. The number of flights cancelled multiplied by each flight being full will never mathmatically equal the number of available seats on future flights. Their flights generally sell out. How do you disperse a whole days worth of passengers onto planes with little or no seats available. Add to that the continued cancellation of flights. Not sure they just shouldn't rent out a few planes to strictly take the stranded passengers where they need to go and get it done quickly. It may cost a fortune---but to get out of the misery they are in would be worth it and what good PR to know they will do what is needed.

DG
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17166299/
"The airline said 10 incoming and outbound flights at John F. Kennedy International Airport were “significantly delayed” with customers on board during Wednesday’s storm. Reasons included congestion, frozen equipment and an effort to keep planes ready to go in case the weather broke, said JetBlue spokesman Bryan Baldwin."

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/19/news/companies/jetblue/index.htm?postversion=2007021908

"As a result of last Wednesday's storm, some passengers spent up to eight hours in planes stranded on runways at John F. Kennedy International Airport, unable to take off due to the weather and unable to return to terminals because of insufficient open gates.

Hundreds of passengers sat in planes that were sometimes not heated, that ran out of food and had no clean toilets."

That's where we read it. And so on...

Brandie
 
NY TV news and I think NY Times. I'll look for a link later. People sitting in the plane for 11 hours is newsworthy. The fact that Jet Blue waited to ask for help isn't as newsworthy. The longer stories asked the Port Authority what took so long to get the buses and they said they weren't asked.

Yep, I read it in several places to. The PA was asked why it didn't spring into action, and it turns out JetBlue never called them!
 
From http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=10&aid=66853

NY1 News:

At JFK’s Jet Blue terminal, more than half of 500 departing and arriving flights were cancelled.
Yesterday some passengers say they were left sitting on the tarmac for as long as ten hours.

Some passengers even documented the long wait, snapping pictures with their cell phone cameras.

"It was ridiculous,” said one passenger. “[The plane] was just sitting there and sitting there. They said they would pull us into the gate and they never did. There was very little food. I mean, it was just a nightmare."

The Port Authority says it sent buses to get people off stranded planes just as soon as it was asked.

To its credit, Jet Blue admits its actions were unacceptable -- that it should have gotten people off planes sooner, but was hoping to be able to de-ice them and get them moving.
 
If the JetBlue CEO thinks they messed up, why are you such an apologist for them???? Can airlines do NO WRONG in your book? I'm not clear why you endlessly defend such wrong behavior on their part.

People remember when they've been held hostage on a plane. People STILL talk about the time NWA kept people hostage for 7 hours in Detroit. AIRLINES DON'T LIVE THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR DOWN EASILY!

But the simple way to solve it is to pass the Passenger BIll of Rights, since airlines can't figure out how to police themselves.

Or, we could try another idea. Stuff a plane full of airline executives, then put them out on the Tarmac for 12 hours with no food, water or toilets. MAYBE THEN WE'D SEE SOME CHANGE!


I have to agree with this comment, except for the stuffed plane... :lmao:

I think even the JetBlue CEO conceding the need for a passenger Bill of Rights (to be announced on Tuesday by him) points towards the fact that JetBlue -might- be a good company that wants to do its customers right. However, that sentiment at the C-level does not excuse the behavior the other day. :confused3 The fact that it has happened before and will happen again, while airline businesses determine how much they're willing to pay for good customer service, shows that some constraint needs to be applied around their behavior.

Oh, and I think speculation around how many people would decide whether to get on the plane avoids the fact that the people who DID chose get on the plane after such a warning would have the opportunity to get water, food, a good book, and whatever else it took to survive an extended wait on a plane. That ability to PREPARE yourself for such an "adventure" was not provided when somebody boards a plane and then is KEPT on it for 9 hours!!! If I chose to sit on a plane for that long, it wouldn't be because I was after "low fares."

For the record, I don't fly United, American, or US Airways. I don't even look at their prices. United decided not to fly people for over a week in 2000, American just because I don't know if I'd actually get where I bought a ticket for, and US Airways due deserting me in Amsterdam after a host of issues getting me to Paris. But I'm also lucky in that I can chose not to do so.

Brandie
 













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