Jet Blue Leaves Passengers in Jet for 11 Hours

[Free4Life11]

Now can you use your cell phone during the delays? I just about got my head chewed off by a nasty flight attendant while we waited to be de-iced for hours and hours a few years ago. Yes I was glad they were de-icing the plane, but I ALSO wanted to let my ride know that I was going to be late! I literally had to crouch in my seat and talk as quietly as possible with my phone hidden, it was ridiculous and I was mad!

 

[safetymom]

Yes you can use your cell phone when you are on the ground like that. The flight attendants and pilot made announcements stating that we were allowed to use them.

 

[Jeanne B]

I feel bad for anyone who was supposed to travel to/from these cities this weekend. This is posted on the JB website...

JetBlue continues to experience cancellations and delays as a result of Wednesday's ice storm in the Northeast. Please check the status of your flight online before proceeding to the airport.
The airline has canceled all flights to and from the following cities on Saturday, Feb. 17 and Sunday, Feb. 18: Richmond, VA; Pittsburgh, PA; Raleigh/Durham, NC; Austin, TX, Bermuda, Columbus, OH; Nashville, TN and Portland, ME.

 

[Skuba2]

It is still on the news. I think people at the airport are also getting more mad because people who were booked on flights today are coming in and leaving while they sit and wait. Although, it cracked me up. They had a girl in her early 20's trying to get from JFK to Boston to see her boyfriend. I had to laugh. Why she just doesn't take her refund and hop on an Amtrak to Boston is beyond me. I guess she'd rather spend the 3 days in the airport.

We were stranded in KC once when the "storm of the century" basically shut down NY. We couldn't get home. We called from out hotel room since we were over an hour from the airport. We were told we weren't going anywhere. We asked when they could re-book us---yes--rebook---actually getting a spot on a plane. It would take 3 days. We were able to extend the hotel until then and waited it out. We couldn't have been the only ones on the plane. I don't remember ever hearing of people spending 3 days in an airport that day. I just don't get it. I think my dh and I would have either gone home and not come back until we had an actual spot on a plane or drove to one of the many, many other airports in the area and tried to get closer to our home destination. There are soooooo soooo many airports within a driveable distance. Go to Boston by Amtrak and get a flight out of there. Newark, LGA--even Connecticut has a few airports that can be tried--White Plains and Bradley. I think I would take a flight to anywhere at that point and then try and get out from there.

I am sorry for what is happening to everyone there and I am sorry that Jetblue made some huge mistakes. But, I just can't understand why the people aren't finding other means to get themselves to their destination.

Again, it is taking responsibility for your own situation and solving the problem. Not sitting in an airport waiting for someone else to solve it for you. IMO

DG

 

[snowbunny]

it is time the airline industry were forced to properly care for their passengers, because self-regulation is not working.

Deregulation rarely works well. But it produces $59 fares to MCO. People really want to have their cake and eat it too.

The people who say they would have opened the emergency slide and gotten out are amusing. Jets are quite high off the ground even sitting on the tarmac. It's not like going down the clown slide at the Boardwalk --people break bones hitting the ground at the bottom of emergency airplane slides. Just another opportunity for a lawsuit though, I guess.

 

[LadyShiva]

Given the reduction in food service/availability on flights over the last several years, it would be the passenger's responsibility to provide her/his own food in the case of a medical condition, NOT the airlines'.


Lotsa luck. I'd be shocked if your legislative representative's office is open Monday.


That judge must be speaking theoretically, or else has no knowledge of JetBlue. The airline has a single class on all flights.

Re: your first comment... I think we can agree to disagree.

Re: your second: *chuckle* Good point. I have to work on Monday, and I wanted to wait until the Iraq resolution passed. Wasn't thinking of Presidents' Day.

Brandie

 

[LadyShiva]

Deregulation rarely works well. But it produces $59 fares to MCO. People really want to have their cake and eat it too.

The people who say they would have opened the emergency slide and gotten out are amusing. Jets are quite high off the ground even sitting on the tarmac. It's not like going down the clown slide at the Boardwalk --people break bones hitting the ground at the bottom of emergency airplane slides. Just another opportunity for a lawsuit though, I guess.

I don't think holding the airlines to their non-binding resolutions to do better is wanting to have their cake and eat it too. There were basic services that were supposed to be provided in the JetBlue instance that were not provided; hence, the JetBlue CEO said the situation was "unacceptable."

American will only wait to take off for 4 hours. *eyebrow raise* From what I can find, they're the only airline with a limit on holding a plane on a tarmac.

Brandie

 

[LadyShiva]

Its the difference between staying 4 more hours on a plane or 20 years in a federal controlled maximum security prison, with cold blooded murders and rapists. You will be charged as a terrorist along with the other people who gang rushed airline officials. These are federal employees, they were also stuck on this plane for 9 hours with the people on board, just imagine their job for a second.

People amaze me sometimes. We want 1000 rules in place for airlines so one will never crash into a plane again, but when 1 inconviences us we are quick to say its stupid and it should be changed, like luggage checks. CNN will forget about this in a week, while you sit in a holding cell waiting for your bail which will probably be a remand since you took out federal employees. The airlines will claim "saftey of passengers" and use 9/11 and you wont have a leg to stand on with your hostage claim. Honestly, airlines arent something to mess with, just have patcience, and if you have a medical problem they wont let you die, tell an attendent and they will assist you.

I think you are using hyperbole to try and prove your opinion. "1000 rules"? "1 inconveniences us, we are quick to say it's stupid and it should be changed, like luggage checks"? Actually, I think luggage checks haven't come up in this thread. I may be wrong, but I know I haven't argued against flight personnel and TSA agents doing their jobs. Some people do believe being held for 11 hours on a plane is kidnapping. I think it is inhumane, but I also stated a case where the flight personnel in a previous situation rebelled against waiting anymore on a plane without air conditioning on a hot day and got their passengers out.

I hold to the argument that this wasn't a minor inconvenience to be on planes with non-working toilets and without food. There is a non-binding agreement that JetBlue agreed to that was disregarded in this situation. As the airlines tried to use self-regulation to avoid legislation and self-regulation has since failed multiple times, it is time to pass the Passenger Bill of Rights (which only asserts basic rights, by the way, not the ability to assault flight personnel to get out of a plane you've been kept in for 11 hours).

Brandie

 

[NYDisGuy]

I think you are using hyperbole to try and prove your opinion. "1000 rules"? "1 inconveniences us, we are quick to say it's stupid and it should be changed, like luggage checks"? Actually, I think luggage checks haven't come up in this thread. I may be wrong, but I know I haven't argued against flight personnel and TSA agents doing their jobs. Some people do believe being held for 11 hours on a plane is kidnapping. I think it is inhumane, but I also stated a case where the flight personnel in a previous situation rebelled against waiting anymore on a plane without air conditioning on a hot day and got their passengers out.

I hold to the argument that this wasn't a minor inconvenience to be on planes with non-working toilets and without food. There is a non-binding agreement that JetBlue agreed to that was disregarded in this situation. As the airlines tried to use self-regulation to avoid legislation and self-regulation has since failed multiple times, it is time to pass the Passenger Bill of Rights (which only asserts basic rights, by the way, not the ability to assault flight personnel to get out of a plane you've been kept in for 11 hours).

Brandie

I was speaking on the grounds of living in NY and witnessing 9/11 first hand and then watching CNN when the no liquids on planes rule came out and people were actually complaining. No one on these boards said that I dont think, however, the person I quoted said they rather take 6 guys and gang rush the "4 women attendents" than sit on a plane. Does one ever think that while you are taking out the flight staff like it is a WWE match, a REAL terrorist or anti-war fanatic takes over the plane and now instead of just waiting you have bigger problems. Now those 20 years for assautling officials, just went to life without parole for terrorist conspiracy. Thats the problem I was addressing.

You added words to what I said. I never said minor inconvenience. An inconvenience could mean anywhere from slight discomfort to a major problem causing anxiety which obviousley would be the correct termonology for an event like this. And I agree a Bill of rights should be passed. But it hasnt . Which means most rights you do have are null. Think of it as High school as silly as it may sound, you surrender your rights for the saftey of others. Im not gonna get into a polticial debate, but not all people who board planes are from America even on interstate flights. It wouldnt be fair to tell the businessman from Mexico he doesnt have the freedom of speech or life on this plane for the next 5 hours. All a bill of rights will do is give someone a motive to try something that may be detrimental to the crew.

 

[seashoreCM]

Psst! I heard on the news (a Boston station) that a loaded Delta plane was similarly sitting on the tarmac somewhere (I forget where).

The gentle approach: You mean to say that someone will actually come, tell the pilot to hold still, and open up the plane if a passenger refuses to cover up (with a blanket while breast feading or whatever) becaue it is too hot, or someone refuses to turn off his cell phone?

Ready to take off on a moment's notice is a bit oxymoronic here. Someone might be in a rest room and that will introduce some dilly dally.

 

[LadyShiva]

I was speaking on the grounds of living in NY and witnessing 9/11 first hand and then watching CNN when the no liquids on planes rule came out and people were actually complaining. No one on these boards said that I dont think, however, the person I quoted said they rather take 6 guys and gang rush the "4 women attendents" than sit on a plane. Does one ever think that while you are taking out the flight staff like it is a WWE match, a REAL terrorist or anti-war fanatic takes over the plane and now instead of just waiting you have bigger problems. Now those 20 years for assautling officials, just went to life without parole for terrorist conspiracy. Thats the problem I was addressing.

You added words to what I said. I never said minor inconvenience. An inconvenience could mean anywhere from slight discomfort to a major problem causing anxiety which obviousley would be the correct termonology for an event like this. And I agree a Bill of rights should be passed. But it hasnt . Which means most rights you do have are null. Think of it as High school as silly as it may sound, you surrender your rights for the saftey of others. Im not gonna get into a polticial debate, but not all people who board planes are from America even on interstate flights. It wouldnt be fair to tell the businessman from Mexico he doesnt have the freedom of speech or life on this plane for the next 5 hours. All a bill of rights will do is give someone a motive to try something that may be detrimental to the crew.

You're confusing the US Bill of Rights with the initiative to require airlines provide basic services like working toilets during flight delays. Here's the initiative:

All American air carriers shall abide by the following standards to ensure the safety, security and comfort of their passengers:

- Establish procedures to respond to all passenger complaints within 24 hours and with appropriate resolution within 2 weeks.
- Notify passengers within ten minutes of a delay of known diversions, delays and cancellations via airport overhead announcement, on aircraft announcement, and posting on airport television monitors.
- Establish procedures for returning passengers to terminal gate when delays occur so that no plane sits on the tarmac for longer than three hours without connecting to a gate.
- Provide for the essential needs of passengers during air- or ground-based delays of longer than 3 hours, including food, water, sanitary facilities, and access to medical attention.
- Provide for the needs of disabled, elderly and special needs passengers by establishing procedures for assisting with the moving and retrieving of baggage, and the moving of passengers from one area of airport to another at all times by airline personnel.
- Publish and update monthly on the company’s public web site a list of chronically delayed flights, meaning those flight delayed thirty minutes or more, at least forty percent of the time, during a single month.
Compensate “bumped” passengers or passengers delayed due to flight cancellations or postponements of over 12 hours by refund of 150% of ticket price.
- The formal implementation of a Passenger Review Committee, made up of non-airline executives and employees but rather passengers and consumers – that would have the formal ability to review and investigate complaints.
Make lowest fare information, schedules and itineraries, cancellation policies and frequent flyer program requirements available in an easily accessed location and updated in real-time.
- Ensure that baggage is handled without delay or injury; if baggage is lost or misplaced, the airline shall notify customer of baggage status within 12 hours and provide compensation equal to current market value of baggage and its contents.
- Require that these rights apply equally to all airline code-share partners including international partners.

I don't think that initiative is onerous.
Brandie

 

[LadyShiva]

They had a girl in her early 20's trying to get from JFK to Boston to see her boyfriend. I had to laugh. Why she just doesn't take her refund and hop on an Amtrak to Boston is beyond me. ...Again, it is taking responsibility for your own situation and solving the problem. Not sitting in an airport waiting for someone else to solve it for you. IMO

DG

Or maybe the flight she's waiting on still has her luggage loaded? That's the best I can come up with for a rational explanation.

Brandie

 

[Skuba2]

It does boggle the mind. Although I can say my luggage can go around the world---I'd want to get where I am going. She is visiting her boyfriend--not sure clothes are required. HEEHEE.

The news (I'm in CT) are now talking about the two Jetblue pilots who took a $360 taxi ride to an upstate airport to retrieve an empty, unused plane. Flew it to JFK and got a plane load of people to Florida. They also mentioned that not only did the airport problems factor into the problems, but the fact that the pilots couldn't get themselves to the airport didn't help either.

I just feel really bad for Jetblue as well. They are a young airline who was trying to give the masses what they wanted. A good flight for less money. I think it has bitten them in the rear. Not having the ground crew abundance that most airlines do is a benefit except for days like that. I wonder if the heads of the airline had the experience to deal with the whole situation. I grew up a TWA brat so I have flown a lot for most of my life. I love Jetblue as an airline. They don't over-book which would have just made this fiasco even worse. They turn their planes around at the gate with phenomenal speed which also may have contributed on Valentine's day. And, their planes seem well cared for inside--mostly because they are newer. Another issue making it all worse on Wednesday---code sharing. I am not sure if anyone code shares with Jetblue. I am not sure anyone was "honoring" the tickets of a small, discount airline.

I am not trying to be a commercial for them. I just think they have no good way to dig themselves out of this quandry. I don't think airlines can be or should be judged by one black eye. I am personally very interested to see what they do put in place to prevent this from happening again.

Remember, the fact that everyone sat out on tarmacs is an isolated incident and really isn't the reason why people are grounded for so long now. May not help their moods, but it isn't the cause of the crowd of people. The flights would have been cancelled and the people would have been stuck irregardless of whether they were in the airport or out on the tarmac. It is the fact that Jetblue wasn't able to fly for a day or more out of one of their major hubs. The number of Jetblue flights effected must have been enormous. And with vacation for the kids in the northeastern states, the next days flights were probably booked solid. And, since they can't pull planes out of nowhere---what do they do? Their planes weren't where they were suppose to be. What I wonder is, they cancelled one afternoon to get the planes where they were suppose to be to start a new day---did those planes fly empty to get there?

Sorry this is so jumbled, but it is such a dynamic situation. Someone said it equates to "a perfect storm." Their words--not mine.

DG

 

[safetymom]

I am a big fan of Jet Blue also. This time it is Jet Blue, the last time it was American. Several years ago US Airways was in the hot seat.

It does happen. Jet Blue will take care of those that they couldn't get to where they needed to go with Jet Blue credits. They are a lot more generous that most airlines.

I was delayed in PIT one time. The tires on the plane needed to be changed. They broke out drinks and snacks at the gate. I also got a $50 credit for being delayed which was not as long as some I have had.

If they decide to be more cautious next time then people will be complaining that they couldn't even get on the plane, or the airline didn't even try to get them where they were trying to go. I think you can't win with most of the traveling public.

 

[Lewisc]

NY to FL is a 2-3 hour flight. The passengers were left on the tarmac for 8-11 hours. The passengers shouldn't expect to be in the plane longer than the fuel capacity of the plane.

Jet Blue has canceled flights from some cities through Monday.

The airline has canceled all flights to and from the following cities through Monday, Feb 19: Richmond, VA; Pittsburgh, PA; Charlotte and Raleigh/Durham, NC; Jacksonville, FL; Austin and Houston, TX; Bermuda; Columbus, OH; Nashville, TN and Portland, ME. In addition, flights to other JetBlue cities may be canceled, so be sure

The rumor is Jet Blue is short of flight crews due to time spent on the tarmac and has canceled the E190 cities so they can use those flight crews on other routes.

Given the reduction in food service/availability on flights over the last several years, it would be the passenger's responsibility to provide her/his own food in the case of a medical condition, NOT the airlines'.

 

[bavaria]

I think you can't win with most of the traveling public.

Exactly. We would see countless complaints no matter what the decision, just like we see here when people encounter mishaps during their travel.

 

[NYDisGuy]

You're confusing the US Bill of Rights with the initiative to require airlines provide basic services like working toilets during flight delays. Here's the initiative:

All American air carriers shall abide by the following standards to ensure the safety, security and comfort of their passengers:

- Establish procedures to respond to all passenger complaints within 24 hours and with appropriate resolution within 2 weeks.
- Notify passengers within ten minutes of a delay of known diversions, delays and cancellations via airport overhead announcement, on aircraft announcement, and posting on airport television monitors.
- Establish procedures for returning passengers to terminal gate when delays occur so that no plane sits on the tarmac for longer than three hours without connecting to a gate.
- Provide for the essential needs of passengers during air- or ground-based delays of longer than 3 hours, including food, water, sanitary facilities, and access to medical attention.
- Provide for the needs of disabled, elderly and special needs passengers by establishing procedures for assisting with the moving and retrieving of baggage, and the moving of passengers from one area of airport to another at all times by airline personnel.
- Publish and update monthly on the company’s public web site a list of chronically delayed flights, meaning those flight delayed thirty minutes or more, at least forty percent of the time, during a single month.
Compensate “bumped” passengers or passengers delayed due to flight cancellations or postponements of over 12 hours by refund of 150% of ticket price.
- The formal implementation of a Passenger Review Committee, made up of non-airline executives and employees but rather passengers and consumers – that would have the formal ability to review and investigate complaints.
Make lowest fare information, schedules and itineraries, cancellation policies and frequent flyer program requirements available in an easily accessed location and updated in real-time.
- Ensure that baggage is handled without delay or injury; if baggage is lost or misplaced, the airline shall notify customer of baggage status within 12 hours and provide compensation equal to current market value of baggage and its contents.
- Require that these rights apply equally to all airline code-share partners including international partners.

I don't think that initiative is onerous.
Brandie

I understand where your coming from but some of that is not feasible. - Provide for the essential needs of passengers during air- or ground-based delays of longer than 3 hours, including food, water, sanitary facilities, and access to medical attention.

You cant expect an airline to carry a days worth of food on their plane for one flight, firstly that airline makes more flights than just one and secondly there would be no space to carry that much.

Your third and fourth point basically cancel each other. Even if the airline carried extra food and water and medical supplies, they still would be breaking the rules since its after 3 hours and customers should be at the gate.

You also cant expect an airline to determine the market value of a lost luggage and its contents. Unless it was determined by weight, but people would put rocks in their bags and claim it was lost and scam the airlines.

I know that the airlines do need some sort of consumer protection, but it cannot be all for the consumer, because scam artists love to make money off open ended rules and these leave questions for concern. Not to mention, with these rules you can forget about Southwest dings and Jetblue 89 dollar flights, because the rate will go sky high if they are expected to do these things.

 

[manning]

A comment from a retired commercial captain on a talk show the other day.

"The captain has the authority to declare an emergency and have the plane unloaded"

Asked why this didn't happen his comment was "either the captain didn't have the guts bowing to the company or he was getting paid." Pilots salaries have been greatly reduced and they are paid from the time they leave the gate to arrival at the gate."

He also indicated that several times when toliet overflowed after long waits he declared an emergency and one of two things happened. They got a gate or buses.

Taking responsibility of your actions? How do you do that when being held hostage?

 

[manning]

That judge must be speaking theoretically, or else has no knowledge of JetBlue. The airline has a single class on all flights.

He was talking industry wide.

 

[seashoreCM]

>>> toilet overflowing
Doesn't the blue fluid get strained (dissolved commingled material such as urine cannot be filtered) and re-circulated for each flush? How long (hours) does it take before the volume (gallons) inside the holding tanks (bilge) gets exhausted? Otherwise this, not any regulation, would limit the time the plane sat on the tarmac because it would then be unable to complete the flight.

>>> judge... first
First class seats would be meaningless unless the airline reserved them first come first served in which case elites and platinums and premiers on normal trips would have a harder time upgrading.

>>> scam artists
More severe punishment for scam artists. Also, if the airline lost the luggage the airline should not always get the benefit of the doubt. Finally, depreciated value is an artificial concept and should be "out". By this time the identity of the missing item has already been established. Then determining the compensation value should go in favor of the passenger which produces a greater incentive to treat the luggage more carefully.

>>> fewer dings
Everybody, not just the affected passengers, should share the cost of providing good service. By the way I also feel that all citizens should share the cost of mistakes made by civil servants (government by defnition) but that is another program. (The latter is accomplished by making governmental actions subject to judicial review and allowing taxes to rise as a result.)