Is it wrong to spank your child?

[sunni]

The Nanny show is a joke. It works because she is a stranger, even a celebrity. Of course the kids listen to her, they get to be on tv. Plus look at the parents they choose... they have let the kids run the household and don't support one another.

 

[Aidensmom]

No, I believe that spanking is just a semantic word for abuse, so there is no confusion on this end. When you hit your child you are in fact abusing them in my eyes. It is all up to your own perception anyway, I feel that using any type of corporal punishment is abusive.

I was an abused child, there is a big difference. What you are saying is minimizing the pain and trauma I experienced.

 

[Aidensmom]

While we are on the subject of parenting styles we disagree with, I'll jump on my soapbox for a minute.

I don't believe in the current trend of 'gentle parenting' that I have seen lately. (I am not talking about the book or it's contents, I haven't read it) I am talking about soft voices at all times, explaining to your children why they are being disciplined, reminding them that they are loved when they are doing the wrong thing, trying to shelter your children from any feelings that are not happiness.

IMHO, children are supposed to learn to deal with all feelings...including sadness, shame, pain, humilation. I don't believe in reminding my children that I love them in the middle of their outburst or when they are doing the wrong thing. My love is unconditional and an irrelevant part of the discussion when they are being disciplined. They get positive reinforcement when they are behaving positively.

When my kids do the wrong thing, they should feel bad. That is how you are supposed to feel when you do the wrong thing. They need to feel that. That is what makes them want to avoid repeating that behavior. I don't agree with doing everything possible to make sure they don't have those feelings. They need to know that the consequences of bad or dangerous behavior includes pain, shame, hurt, sadness, humilation, punishment. My goal in disciplining is not about solidifying our loving relationship. It is about teaching them to be independent people who can make it in the world. My parenting goals are not about this minute...but about the future, when they are not under my roof anymore. The world will not coddle them...it is my job to teach them that.

(notice that I talked about what I believe is right for MY children, not others. I respect that everyone as the right to raise their children as they see fit)

I believe the same thing.

 

[tiggersmom2]

I was an abused child, there is a big difference. What you are saying is minimizing the pain and trauma I experienced.

Hugs sweetie! I know exactly what you are saying and spanking is not abuse! People that equate the two should be ashamed!

 

[Aidensmom]

You say spanking doesn't work, then why continue to spank?

Another alternative to time-out, taking away a toy or priveledge would maybe be to deny a much anticipated event like a visit to a friends house, a trip to the zoo, chuckecheese, the park etc. while of course explaining why the behavior is inappropriate and these are the consequences.

I voted no to spanking ever.

When did I say spanking doesn't work? I said my siblings said I was wrong to do so. For the record, spanking works extremely well with my son.

 

[PoohnPglet]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to base my parenting on a reality tv show!

You clearly don't know what it is like to have a child that is extremely headstrong or else you are an Amazon with great strength. At 6 or 7, DS was very wiry and strong. I'm petite. I could only get him to time-out or his room a few times and try to keep him there... I would be PHYSICALLY worn out and further more, it can be dangerous restraining a child (for the child). I believe a spanking is much safer.

Except that what she does works. I actually know one of the families and what she came and taught them is still working for them. It is what I have done all along with my son. I had no power struggles at 6 /7 because by 2/3 my son knew that I wasn't playing when I had to discipline him. And it was only time consuming in the beginning, but well worth the time spent.

As I said before,
"No one uses this logic of hitting anywhere else in our society - a husband cannot grab his wife's arm for something he does not like, a boss cannot squeeze his employee's shoulder for doing something outside of policy, a police officer cannot spank a citizen for breaking a law (any law) - why is it alright for adults to do so to children?"

 

[sunni]

Believe me, my kids never wore me down. They knew I meant what I said and that I stuck to it.

I am very happy for you, truly. I have a DD that never wore me down. But I don't think you've had a child like some of us here have described. The kind of child that knows you mean what you say and they don't care. With these children, you never know if a time-out or other punishment will work, depends on the kid's mood. Sometimes they are determined not to take a punishment (time-out) or allow a punishment (removal of toys/privileges) to stop them from doing what they want. And some kids don't yet have a "currency", they flit from one thing to another... so take away whatever you want, they don't care. Take away everything, they'll re-double their effort to be naughty.

I don't listen to Dr. Phil, but I do agree that if they have a "currency" you can deal with, do it! But some kids honestly couldn't care less about tv, toys, playdates, etc. It's almost as if they are smarter than all the other kids... they know that sometime down the line these things will be back or they can find a substitute for them, they know that mommy & daddy will always love them no matter how angry they get; they know what the absolute worst punishment mom & dad will dole out is and that they can handle it... these kids are brilliant.

 

[glass-slipper]

Then you had great kids, and your parenting had something to do with it. But to say to not spank any kid for any reason - I think it goes too far. As pointed out, kids are different. "



Kids are different, I agree. Still doesn't mean they need to be spanked.




"Also, I never said that you said that spanking was abuse. But look up to just a couple of previous posts to this. Most of the people who say "no, never" use the "spanking is abuse" line.



Most, not all.




"Funny how I'm getting responses to my last paragraph, but none to the paragraph above it (in my previous post)."












Exactly what do you want a response to?[/FONT









" And, yes, I stand by my statement that to not spank, in some instances, is abuse. "Nanny 911" is a different situation than real life. For one, the Nanny should not use corporal punishment - it's not her child. For another, a Nanny by definition is supposed to be around the child(ren) most of the time. I was a single parent, a widower. Should I have not worked to spend more time with my children so that they would not "wear me down"? That wouldn't have been very practical.

I just refuse to feel guilty because my children, up until about 10 years ago would get spanked about every other year.

why exactly do you feel it is child abuse to not spank your child? In no way am I suggesting how you should have raised your kids, I'm sorry you were a widower, being a single parent is difficult especially when having to deal with the death of a spouse.

 

[cristbaby]

I believe there should be consequences for their actions. With that said, each child is unique in his/her own way and should be delt with accordingly. Some children will respond with just a good talking to and some need that time out. But there are the select few that will only repond by spanking them. I believe that if it is a safety issue and the child is not listening then by all means they need a spanking to keep them safe. I have been doing childcare for over 20 years (no, I do not spank the children) and I have seen all types of parents deal with many different issues. The best on is when Mom says, "now Susie don't play in the street, a car might run you over". Meanwhile Susie is bookin it down the middle of the street. Please parents, you know your child better than anyone. Do what you think is right to keep your child safe and let them know that you are in charge.

 

[glass-slipper]

When did I say spanking doesn't work? I said my siblings said I was wrong to do so. For the record, spanking works extremely well with my son.

Sorry, I misunderstood then.

 

[N.Bailey]

Except that what she does works. I actually know one of the families and what she came and taught them is still working for them. It is what I have done all along with my son. I had no power struggles at 6 /7 because by 2/3 my son knew that I wasn't playing when I had to discipline him. And it was only time consuming in the beginning, but well worth the time spent.

As I said before,
"No one uses this logic of hitting anywhere else in our society - a husband cannot grab his wife's arm for something he does not like, a boss cannot squeeze his employee's shoulder for doing something outside of policy, a police officer cannot spank a citizen for breaking a law (any law) - why is it alright for adults to do so to children?"

Maybe because you're not responsible for the behavior of anyone but your own children?? Maybe because you're not responsible for teaching others; beside your own children, the difference between right and wrong? Maybe because it's not your responsibility to raise the rest of society to become productive citizens?

Do you honestly believe this is a good argument? IMO, there is absolutely no comparing any of the above situations at all.


Edit: It's also not your responsibility to make sure everyone else in society is safe either.

I can remember smacking my son's butt once as child because he refused to stay away from our pool. He was always doing anything he could to get near it. I wasted no time in making him understand that I would NOT tolerate that. Not because I'm mean, but because I didn't want to have to write his obituary up.

 

[PoohnPglet]

I believe that if it is a safety issue and the child is not listening then by all means they need a spanking to keep them safe. I have been doing childcare for over 20 years (no, I do not spank the children).

So, just out of curiousity, how have you managed to keep all those children safe and in control while in your care without spanking?

 

[PoohnPglet]

Maybe because you're not responsible for the behavior of anyone but your own children?? Maybe because you're not responsible for teaching others; beside your own children, the difference between right and wrong? Maybe because it's not your responsibility to raise the rest of society to become productive citizens?

Do you honestly believe this is a good argument? IMO, there is absolutely no comparing any of the above situations at all.

Do you honestly believe this is a good argument?

 

[N.Bailey]

Do you honestly believe this is a good argument?

I honestly believe it's every parent's job to raise a child to become a productive citizen. I also believe it's every parent's job to keep their children as safe as possible.

It's not my job to parent the world. It's also not my husband's job to discipline me.

Maybe it's your husband's job in your house though?

 

[debm]

(I haven't read every post. A few pages at the beginning and a few at the end.) I wanted to jump in on this though and give my support for those that don't believe in spanking. I just could never hit my children. There are times I feel VERY angry towards them, and feel like hitting. But I know that is the wrong time to do it. We also have a mentally disabled child that certainly tries our patience! I think that people that justify spanking their child really feel that is what they need to do to make them behave. Everyone is different. I will not tell you how to discipline your child. But if spanking really works then why do people have to do it again? It is not a means to the end for a misbehavior. I just don't buy that. For the OP that says her family remarks how well behaved her child is---well behaved means biting you??? aaagh. That is a very upset child. I feel sometimes we need to step back from the situation and try to look at the real root of the problem.

Years ago my friend and I had children the same age. She believed in spanking as Dr. Dobson says---for willful disobedience. Her son at 18 months would go to the curb, she would tell him "no do not go into the street." He would look at her and just step out into the street. She would go to him, swat him on the butt twice, say "no no", he would cry and she would return him to the front porch. She was always consistent and firm with him. But he would do it time and time again. I taught my son at the same age not to go in the street because of the cars. He was scared of them. I put fear in him about the street. He would not go near it. Yes, some may say their personalities were different. I'm sure they were but I just couldn't bear to hit my child and so I felt this was a better way to teach him. I also feel that if you do not instill an independence in a child for a particular behavior that is wrong then who is to control them when the punishing parent is not there?? Many kids will do things that are wrong when their parents aren't around because they know that they aren't going to be punished for it. So far, my kids have come to tell me if they feel they made the wrong decision because they feel badly about it inside---that they know they made a mistake. Not because they are fearful of a punishment.

I just wanted to stand up for those that are getting slammed for not spanking. Believe it or not our kids are very good. Actually in my case, I have the 4 kids in the neighborhood that are asked to do odd jobs, babysit, etc because they are responsible and known for their independency and smart thinking. Just because we dont' spank doesn't mean our kids are not disciplined. I could go on and on.....I will not tell you how to parent your kids if you will not tell me to spank mine. Please let's respect each other's choice to discipline as we see fit for our own family situations and realize that kids turn out to be good citizens for many different reasons.

 

[Aidensmom]

I am reading this as they have "worn" past other discipline. And if that is the case, that is the parent's fault. If you set a time out and the child won't stay put, you keep putting them back until they figure out that you mean for them to be in time out. (Anyone been watching the Nanny 911 type shows? This is what they are doing.) No matter how much time it takes. And maybe the first few times, it will take a long time. But, once you establish that you are not playing, they get the picture. Spanking seems to be the short cut because the adult is tired of dealing with the situation.

As I said in my post, I have been both spanked AND hit as a child. There was no difference in the severity or location of the strike, they were all a physical assault on my person. No one uses this logic of hitting anywhere else in our society - a husband cannot grab his wife's arm for something he does not like, a boss cannot squeeze his employee's shoulder for doing something outside of policy, a police officer cannot spank a citizen for breaking a law (any law) - why is it alright for adults to do so to children?

I think it is Dr. Phil that talks about finding a child's currency and I will agree with this. Every child has something that is very important to him that they would not like to see taken away - a toy, a privilege, a trip to a friend's house or whatever. I know my son and I know what things he considers his "currency" and this has worked very well.

Please, come to my house and find my child's "currency"! Believe me, their are children whose stubborness outweighs anything else. I actually was one of them, so I guess I am just getting the "what goes around, comes around" thing with my son. I am so proud of his independence and strong-will, it will get him far in life, but at this age it is just SO frustrating. I do extend my child's timeout for every offense, it is not a matter of that I am not willing to keep him there that long. He is not spanked because I am "worn" out, believe me, I am much more stubborn than he is. But at some point there has to be something done that will stop his behavior.

I am so happy for you that you have kids that just comply to the timeout thing, but there are kids who don't. It is not a reflection on my ability as a parent, it is his personality. When I put him back in timeout for the 100th time and he bites me, what is your solution? I keep asking what are the other methods at this point that I have not already tried, and really have not gotten an answer. My son knows I am not "playing", I follow through on everything I say, but sometimes he just doesn't care. I have tried stuff I have seen in the "nanny" shows, still doesn't work. I am not a angry, abusive parent who does not care. I do not think spankings are the solution to everything. I am just trying to raise a well behaved, well adjusted child. If you have another solution for me, please supply it.

I have asked several times on this thread for alternatives to what I am doing. It is almost as frustrating to be told that there are "other methods" by people that do not describe them as it is to have a child fighting you to sit in time out. I am not trying to single you out as a poster, but if someone does have advice on what else I could do, I would like to hear it instead of being told I am a bad parent for trying to do what I feel is best for my child.

And I have been much more than "hit" as a child. I know very well the difference between abuse and spankings. There IS a difference.

 

[PoohnPglet]

I honestly believe it's every parent's job to raise a child to become a productive citizen. I also believe it's every parent's job to keep their children as safe as possible.

It's not my job to parent the world. It's also not my husband's job to discipline me.

Maybe it's your husband's job in your house though?

Nope. Don't have one of those, thanks.

My point was that it is not acceptable anywhere else under any other circumstance for one person to physically discipline another, yet somehow it is ok for a parent to due so to a child, right?

 

[N.Bailey]

As I said before,
"No one uses this logic of hitting anywhere else in our society - a husband cannot grab his wife's arm for something he does not like, a boss cannot squeeze his employee's shoulder for doing something outside of policy, a police officer cannot spank a citizen for breaking a law (any law) - why is it alright for adults to do so to children?"

If this is a strong argument via your eyes, then please do tell us all when the last time your husband sent you to your room, or took away your TV privileges because he didn't like something you did?

Then, tell us the last time your boss sent you to the corner for a time-out?

If that doesn't show you how silly your analogy was, nothing will I'm afraid.

 

[sunni]

(I haven't read every post. A few pages at the beginning and a few at the end.) I wanted to jump in on this though and give my support for those that don't believe in spanking. I just could never hit my children. There are times I feel VERY angry towards them, and feel like hitting. But I know that is the wrong time to do it. We also have a mentally disabled child that certainly tries our patience! I think that people that justify spanking their child really feel that is what they need to do to make them behave. Everyone is different. I will not tell you how to discipline your child. But if spanking really works then why do people have to do it again? It is not a means to the end for a misbehavior. I just don't buy that. For the OP that says her family remarks how well behaved her child is---well behaved means biting you??? aaagh. That is a very upset child. I feel sometimes we need to step back from the situation and try to look at the real root of the problem.

Years ago my friend and I had children the same age. She believed in spanking as Dr. Dobson says---for willful disobedience. Her son at 18 months would go to the curb, she would tell him "no do not go into the street." He would look at her and just step out into the street. She would go to him, swat him on the butt twice, say "no no", he would cry and she would return him to the front porch. She was always consistent and firm with him. But he would do it time and time again. I taught my son at the same age not to go in the street because of the cars. He was scared of them. I put fear in him about the street. He would not go near it. Yes, some may say their personalities were different. I'm sure they were but I just couldn't bear to hit my child and so I felt this was a better way to teach him. I also feel that if you do not instill an independence in a child for a particular behavior that is wrong then who is to control them when the punishing parent is not there?? Many kids will do things that are wrong when their parents aren't around because they know that they aren't going to be punished for it. So far, my kids have come to tell me if they feel they made the wrong decision because they feel badly about it inside---that they know they made a mistake. Not because they are fearful of a punishment.

I just wanted to stand up for those that are getting slammed for not spanking. Believe it or not our kids are very good. Actually in my case, I have the 4 kids in the neighborhood that are asked to do odd jobs, babysit, etc because they are responsible and known for their independency and smart thinking. Just because we dont' spank doesn't mean our kids are not disciplined. I could go on and on.....I will not tell you how to parent your kids if you will not tell me to spank mine. Please let's respect each other's choice to discipline as we see fit for our own family situations and realize that kids turn out to be good citizens for many different reasons.

I would ask you: if time-outs really work, then why do people have to do it again?

I've spanked (as I've said) and I had a willfully defiant child. But that was then, we did get through it. DS is 11 now and though we have our moments he is a good kid. He's sensitive to the needs of others, doesn't bully, has a job, tries to help other kids see negative behaviors and turn them around (swearing, lying to their parents, starting fires, etc), and he comes to me for advice about almost everything... even girls! And even though we spanked occasionally, he would usually own up to something if he did it, whether at home or school. He wasn't "scared" of us or "fearful" of punishment, like an abused child might be. Believe it or not, us "spankers" have awesome children too!

 

[glass-slipper]

I am very happy for you, truly. I have a DD that never wore me down. But I don't think you've had a child like some of us here have described. The kind of child that knows you mean what you say and they don't care. With these children, you never know if a time-out or other punishment will work, depends on the kid's mood. Sometimes they are determined not to take a punishment (time-out) or allow a punishment (removal of toys/privileges) to stop them from doing what they want. And some kids don't yet have a "currency", they flit from one thing to another... so take away whatever you want, they don't care. Take away everything, they'll re-double their effort to be naughty.

I don't listen to Dr. Phil, but I do agree that if they have a "currency" you can deal with, do it! But some kids honestly couldn't care less about tv, toys, playdates, etc. It's almost as if they are smarter than all the other kids... they know that sometime down the line these things will be back or they can find a substitute for them, they know that mommy & daddy will always love them no matter how angry they get; they know what the absolute worst punishment mom & dad will dole out is and that they can handle it... these kids are brilliant.

You are right, I didn't have a kid like some of you describe, but my sister, sister in law and best friend have and they didn't spank. I think all kids have a "currency" or something that is important to them you just need to find it. Sometimes, taking it away may involve inconvenicing yourself(the parent) as well.For example, dad takes the other sibling who behaved to the pre-planned trip to the zoo, while mom stays home with the one who thinks he is brilliant.